| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 3723.1 | they're here | CACHE::BEAUREGARD | Time to change this message | Thu Apr 26 1990 13:22 | 5 |
| Well, time to logoff and run down to "the software shop". I just got
off the phone with Moe and he's playing with his 3000 as I type.
Roger
|
| 3723.2 | | DICKNS::MACDONALD | VAXELN - Realtime Software Pubs | Thu Apr 26 1990 13:56 | 2 |
|
We'll be looking forward to your report!
|
| 3723.3 | | DICKNS::MACDONALD | VAXELN - Realtime Software Pubs | Thu Apr 26 1990 13:57 | 1 |
| Oh, and we'll look forward to hearing Moe's prices.
|
| 3723.4 | | DICKNS::MACDONALD | VAXELN - Realtime Software Pubs | Thu Apr 26 1990 13:57 | 1 |
| And .. Moe's trade-in packages.
|
| 3723.5 | no title | CACHE::BEAUREGARD | Time to change this message | Thu Apr 26 1990 15:53 | 13 |
|
re- << Well, time to logoff and run down to "the software shop". >>
I probably won't get a chance to get there until late tommorrow
afternoon. I suspect someone else from notesland will get there first.
re- Moe's price, "Give me a break, I'm not making any money on this
stuff, my costs are (asking price - $50.00) :-) "
re- trade up deal, "I'll trade you $xxxx.xx for a A3000" :-)
|
| 3723.6 | A3000 | VIVIAN::S_GOLDSTEIN | Steve G...DTN 847-5415 | Fri Apr 27 1990 05:48 | 13 |
|
Taken from Popular Computing Weekly..
The A3000 has a TWO MEG AGNUS chip ..
The motherboard has room for 2 meg Chip and 4 meg Fast.. supplied with
1 meg Chip and 1 meg Fast...
A new Co-Porcessor slot (200 pin conector)
ZorroIII (100 pin slot) compatable with ZorroII slot, but supports full
32-bit data addressing...
Steve G
|
| 3723.8 | A3000 conference | CACHE::BEAUREGARD | Time to change this message | Fri Apr 27 1990 08:34 | 302 |
| The following is a partial conference held last night 4/26 on Plink.
It was getting late and I couldn't stay logged in any longer so that's why
It's incomplete. Someone on plink will be generating a transcript and when
available, If someone else doesn't beat me to it, I'll post it here.
Copied with out permission......mumble mumble mumble.
(CBM*HARV) WELCOME... I'D LIKE TO INTRODUCE TO YOU ALL A MAN WHOSE NAME SHOULD BE
(SKEEVE) 113 is the plink record <in a single line>
(CBM*HARV) FAMILIAR WITH ANYONE WHO'S BEEN AROUND COMMODORE COMPUTERS FOR A WHILE...
(CBM*HARV) DAVE HAYNIE, COMMODORE HARDWARE ENGINEER
(CBM*HARV) DAVE - THE FLOOR IS YOURS.
(HAZY) Hi, all. My name is Dave Haynie, and I have this neat canned text for you to read:
(HAZY) Dave Haynie - Sr. Systems Engineer
(HAZY) With Commodore since October 1983, projects include:
(HAZY) Commodore PLUS/4 Hired to help finish this
(HAZY) Commodore 128 2nd in command on the HW
(HAZY) Amiga 2000 Engineer/Project Leader/Etc.
(HAZY) Amiga 2620 Took over 1/2 way through
(HAZY) Amiga 2630 Engineer/Project Leader/Etc.
(HAZY) Amiga 3000 Designed much!OK, that looked like Chinese from here. Just a minute.
(STEVEX) Looked OK from here
(CBM*HARV) [one moment please]
(HAZY) Dave Haynie - Sr. Systems Engineer
(HAZY) With Commodore since October 1983, projects include:
(HAZY) Commodore PLUS/4 Hired to help finish this
(HAZY) Commodore 128 2nd in command on the HW
(HAZY) Amiga 2000 Engineer/Project Leader/Etc.
(HAZY) Amiga 2620 Took over 1/2 way through
(HAZY) 630 Engineer/Project Leader/Etc.
(SKEEVE) Hey, the last time we had 113 in a line, the system crashed big time. Glad to see the bug fisx worked <not really something you can test on demand :>
(HAZY) Amiga 3000 Designed much!
(HAZY) AMIGA 3000 - Systems Design Team
(HAZY) Hedley Davis: Project manager, designed preliminary
(HAZY) DRAM controller <RAMSEY>, worked with the
(HAZY) PCB designers, worked on most of the "nice
(HAZY) touch" details.
(HAZY) Dave Haynie : Designed much of the basic architecture,
(HAZY) Zorro III specification, BUSTER chip,
(HAZY) Coprocessor slot.
(HAZY) Greg Berlin : The other Basic Architecture guy, designed
(HAZY) GARY and production RAMSEY chips.
(HAZY) Scott Hood : Designed the Display Enhancer chip <AMBER>,
(HAZY) worked on the later DMAC revision.
(HAZY) Jeff Boyer : Designed the DMAC chip <now working at GVP>.
(HAZY) AMIGA 3000 Features:
(HAZY) 68030/68881 @ 16MHz or 68030/68882 @ 25MHz
(HAZY) ECS chips with 16/32 bit bus
(HAZY) Basic 2 meg RAM expands to a max of 18 megs on-board
(HAZY) Built-in Video Display Enhancer <like flickerFixer>
(HAZY) 32/32 bit DMA SCSI at 68030 bus speeds
(HAZY) Four Zorro III slots, full 32 bit A/D with Zorro II
(HAZY) compatibility.
(HAZY) One 200 Pin CPU slot for advanced 32 bit enhancements
(HAZY) 32 bit ROM
(HAZY) Low profile case <cutest machine since the 1000>
(HAZY) US List Prices <gee, a marketing thing>:
(HAZY) 16MHz/40Meg $3299
(HAZY) 25MHz/40Meg $3999
(HAZY) 25MHz/100Meg $4699
(HAZY) SOME WORKBENCH 2.0 Features <keeping in mind I'm not the software group>:
(HAZY) "New Look" Intuition, with OOPS
(HAZY) Major Workbench rework
(HAZY) "gadtools.libarary" for consistent and easy to write applications
(HAZY) "commodities.library" for "hot key" and similar tools
(HAZY) AREXX! <Yea Bill!>
(HAZY) Even Faster FileSystem with LINKs
(HAZY) Reworked DOS with BCPL exorcised
(HAZY) Support for all ECS and Hedley monitor modes
(HAZY) Reworked Preferences system
(HAZY) ALL KINDS OF OTHER STUFF
(HAZY) Well, that's all the canned stuff I had time to write, guess we should get to questions.
(*MAVERICK) /?
(JD WALLEY) /?
(*FORD PREFECT) /?
(ELRADOR) /?
(CBM*HARV) OKAY... THANKS DAVE...
(SNOWBIRD) /?
(*TMCKEEL) /?
(CRYO) /?
(*DUANE) /?
(JUMPDISK) /?
(SB1107) /?
(CBM*HARV) QUESTION ASKERS... REMEMBER THE TOPIC TONITE AND THAT DAVE IS IN HARDWARE...
(DANBABCOCK) /?
(AMIGA*BOB) /?
(*D.HOOT.MAN) /?
(CJCARTER) /?
(CBM*HARV) ALSO TO REMIND YOU...
(K DAVIDSON) /?
(HOWARD A) /?
(M.RANDALL) /?
(NES*BILL) /?
(OZR626) /?
(CBM*HARV) WE HAVE NOW 3 PIX OF THE 3000 IN THE LIBRARY AND 9 WORKBENCH 2.0 SCREENSHOTS FOR YOUR DOWNLOADING AMUSEMENT...
(SKEEVE) *Maverick is first, then JD WALLEY then ELRADOR and SNOWBIRD.
(LARSBO) /?
(FARMER-TED) /?
(-CAS-) /?
(CBM*HARV) YOU FOLKS WAITING TO ASK A QUESTION.. YOU MIGHT WANT TO PRE-TYPE YOUR QUESTION AND JUST HIT <RETURN> WHEN YOU ARE ALLOWED TO SPEAK.
(*MAVERICK) Could you explain what the new display modes will be <GA>
(BBROOK) /?
(ROBT*CCN) /?
(HAZY) The display modes are the normal Amiga modes, plus the new ECS stuff. ECS includes the ability to display PAL or NTSC on the same machine, ...
(HAZY) and some new modes based on 35ns pixels. Those include 640x480x2 noninterlaced, 1280x200x2 noninterlace, 640x960x2 interlaced, and 1280x400x2 interlaced.
(JD WALLEY) machine with a 7MHz bottleneck...>? <GA>
(HAZY) The VGA-compatible port does the proper scan doubling, scan conversion, or just plain "get out of the way" to convert mode modes into something the average VGA monitor would be happy with.
(HAZY) The custom chips operate at the same bus speed as in the 2000, however, the CPU has 32 bit access to chip RAM, effectively doubling the CPU interface to the chips.
(HAZY) DONE
(SKEEVE) JD WALLEY is next then *FORD PREFECT.
(JD WALLEY) I already sent my message...
(SKEEVE) ....then ELRADOR, SNOWBIRD, *TMCKEEL...... and many more.
(DJJAMES) repeat it please
(CBM*HARV) we saw "machine with a 7Mhz bottleneck...>? JD.. was that your whole question?
(JD WALLEY) It was concerning ECS speeds, and I believe it was just answered. <GA>
(CBM*HARV) okay thanks.
(SKEEVE) *FORD PREFECT, then ELRADOR, SNOWBIRD, *TMCKEEL
(CBM*HARV) Elrador.. your turn
(*FORD PREFECT) Does commodore have any intention of giving us a new Paula with more sound channels in the forseeable future
(*FORD PREFECT) ... <it can't be THAT hard to add a few DAC's> ga
(HAZY) Well, while I can't really comment on unannounced products, it's a safe bet that work has been going on in this area for some time.
(SKEEVE) ELRADOR, then SNOWBIRD, *TMCKEEL, CRYO, *DUANE, JUMPDISK,......
(HAZY) Adding DACs might seem easy, but you have to realize that the video chips are all NMOS, and about as big as NMOS chips ever get, due to heat considerations.
(HAZY) DONE
(ELRADOR) What is the BUSTER chip's job? GA
(HAZY) BUSTER is the Bus Controller, not exactly an acronym. In any case, its job is to take 68030 signals and convert them to Zorro II or Zorro III signals, as appropriate, for CPU access to expansion bus.
(HAZY) Going the other way, it converts bus signals into 68030 signals during DMA. It 's also responsible for bus arbitration of CPU slot, SCSI, Zorro II and Zorro III.
(HAZY) DONE
(SNOWBIRD) Okay, so the custom chips are still not 32 bit, just what kind of bottleneck...
(SNOWBIRD) can we expect with heavy calls to chip ram, like in video? How is that flow...
(SNOWBIRD) handled? And do you still accept macadamia nuts?
(CBM*HARV) [remember, type "GA" when done with question]
(SNOWBIRD) ga
(CBM*HARV) thanks :>
(DOGBONE) /?
(HAZY) In what terms? As compared to an A2000, CPU calls to chip RAM go slightly better than twice as fast on the 3000. As compared to a Mac II with NuBus video, our CPU-to-video RAM interface is about 1.4 times faster.
(HAZY) As compared to standard VGA, it's about 4 times faster. And yes, Macadamia nuts rule.
(SKEEVE) *TMCKEEL, then CRYO, *DUANE,JUMPDISK, SB1107, DANBABCOCK.....
(MSU873) /?
(*TMCKEEL) Why the limit on colors with increased resolution? Future improvements? GA
(HAZY) All video chip functions work the same as on an A2000. Though of course, there's relatively little need for
(HAZY) productivity mode, with the scan converter built in. DONE
(CRYO) Is the non-disclosure lifted on the A3000 and <1.4>2.0? Does this conference meand everything is now "public knowledge"? or are you just <bending> the rules?
(CRYO) GA
(HAZY) The limit on colors in the Denise 31kHz modes are a result of the Denise architecture.
(HAZY) Color registers really run at lores speeds. However, normally, at hires 15kHz modes, registers are basically doubled up and multiplexed out, so that the effect is the same as if they ran full speed.
(HAZY) However, the speeds involved with 35ns pixels were such that this multiplexing had to take place bascially after the color lookup stage, not before. So 12 bits get muxed into 6. The problem is the 3 micron NMOS technology.
(HAZY) DONE
(CBM*HARV) cryo.. better ask again
(CRYO) Are developers still bound by the non-disclosure?
(HAZY) As far as I know, "Introduction" cancels out "non-disclosure". However, as Andy Finkel suggested, developers would be wise to check their agreements just so they don't get hosed.
(GROGERS) /?
(*FORD PREFECT) /?
(CBM*HARV) [comment....
(HAZY) From my point of view, everyone at Commodore's talking now, no one's told us to stop, and in a day or two it'll all be moot anyway. But I ain't no lawyer :->
(HAZY) DONE
(CBM*HARV) [I called CATS yesterday and was given permission to upload those WB2.0 pictures]
(CBM*HARV) [since WB2.0 was shown at the Palladium rollout]
(CBM*HARV) [end of comment]
(HAZY) Yup
(HAZY) GA
(SKEEVE) *DUANE, then JUMPDISK, SB1107, DANBABCOCK, AMIGA*BOB.....
(DJJAMES) *DUANE you still here?
(DJJAMES) guess not
(CBM*HARV) TO THOSE WHO ARRIVED LATE.. YES A TRANSCRIPT WILL BE POSTED.. PROBABLY LATER TONITE.
(JUMPDISK) Quick list of the new chips & their jobs, please? GA
(SKEEVE) JUMPDISK, SB1107, DANBABCOCK, AMIGA*BOB.....
(J. WOLF) /?
(OSS935) /?
(BIL) /?
(HAZY) BUSTER Expansion bus controller and bus arbiter
(HAZY) GARY Local bus controller
(HAZY) RAMSEY DRAM controller and SCSI address generator
(G KINSEY) /?
(HAZY) DMAC SCSI DMA data path chip
(HAZY) AMBER Scan doubler/converter, similar to what flickerFixer does
(HAZY) DONE
(SKEEVE) SB1107, then DANBABCOCK, AMIGA*BOB, *D.HOOT.MAN, CJCARTER.....
(SB1107) How much of this can be upgraded on a 2000...
(SKEEVE) for those who came in late, I'm keeping the queue <currently 23 people in line>
(*MAVERICK) /?
(SB1107) how many and what kind of slots are in the A3000..
(*JON*K) /?
(SB1107) and is there a HD drive and format being relased for the A300 as per rumor?
(SB1107) GA
(CBM*HARV) [quick comment.. I've seen the June Amiga World.. wonderful pictures of *eveyrthing* in there.. should be out this week]
(HAZY) Well, with an ECS chipset, A2630, A2091, and flickerFixer, you can almost get to where the A3000 starts out, minus the 32 bit chipram and 32 bit DMA. Also, A2630 memory is only as fast as the slowest A3000 memory.
(HAZY) There's no way to upgrade an A2000 to 32 bit chipram, Zorro III, or the new CPU slot. <DONE>
(HAZY) <NOT DONE_
(THING*) /?
(HAZY) High density floppy? There will be something eventually, UNIX compatibility requires a 1.44 meg floppy.
(BEARDLOVER) /?
(SB1107) /!
(HAZY) Slots: 4 Amiga slots <Zorro III, which means they support Zorro II as well>. Onthey're horizontal,
(OSS090) /?
(HAZY) and the middle two have AT slots in-line with them, the top slot has the video slot in-line with it. <DONE>
(CBM*HARV) [thanks for being patient with auditorium mode folks.. i know it's a pain, but it's the only way to avoid madness with 120 people here]
(CBM*HARV) next, Mr. Skeeve?
(DJJAMES) SB1107 has a comment
(CBM*HARV) go ahead with your comment, SB1107
(SKEEVE) DANBABCOCK, then AMIGA*BOB, *D.HOOT.MAN, CJCARTER, K DAVIDSON, HOWARD A.....
(SB1107) GA.. comment answerd.. number of slots..
(CBM*HARV) thanks
(DANBABCOCK) Does the built-in flickerfixer handle both NTSC and PAL modes? Does it support "overscan"? <to what extent?> What kind of RAM is used for the ff buffer? GA
(KRAIM) /?
(HAZY) The Video Display Enhancer supports PAL and NTSC with overscan; at least a reasonable amount, I don't know it's limits offhand. The Amber chip works with special line and field store memories, something like what they ...
(HAZY) use in digital TVs. And it's reasonably smart -- if you kick Denise into 31kHz mode, it gets out of the way. If you
(HAZY) go into a non-interlaced mode, it only scan doubles, so there's no ghosting. Only thing it doesn't do a nice job on is the 1280 pixel modes, since that would take twice the memory and a chip that goes twice as fast <DONE>
(AMIGA*BOB) Is the video slot a different form factor than 2000? How compatible? Can you fit an AT Bridge in the 3000 and not lose the adjacent slot? Where would Bridge disk drive go..doesnt look like much room for it in the pics. GA
(CBM*HARV) [we have enough questions to go another couple hours.. so let's hold off on any more new /? requests please folks]
(SKEEVE) AMIGA*BOB, then *D.HOOT.MAN, CJCARTER, K DAVIDSON, HOWARD A, M.RANDALL.....
(HAZY) The slot spacing is the same, so an AT card would obscure the adjacent slot. Sorry.
(J*RENICHE) /?
(HAZY) The video slot is the top slot; we had to use the extra space there, rather than for an AT, since all video cards have the option of being fatter than a normal Zorro card.
(HAZY) Any video card that followed the specified form factor will work <see A500/A2000 Technical Reference Manual>, though ideallly it'll want a different end plate. Those that use all the available, rather than specified, space in ...
(HAZY) the A2000 won't fit. That's why we write specifications :->
(HAZY) DONE
(SKEEVE) *D.HOOT.MAN, CJCARTER, then K DAVIDSON, HOWARD A, M.RANDALL, OZR626, LARSBO....
(*D.HOOT.MAN) Is the 2meg Agnus new ? Will my 1 meg agnus need replaced ? <a2500> GA
(HAZY) The 1 meg versus 2 meg is the same internally, but packaged differently. 8732A vs. 8732B. You can't easily add one to your A2000 because the pinout is slightly different, and you don't have another meg on the chip bus.
(HAZY) I suppose some of the Agnus hackers working on A1000s right now might cram it into your 2000, but it wouldn't be real pretty.DONE
(SKEEVE) CJCARTER, then K DAVIDSON, HOWARD A, M.RANDALL, OZR626, LARSBO, FARMER-TED....
(CJCARTER) Dave, Do you see CMOS in the future of the AMIGA family? and What is the data transfer rate of the DMAC? <GA>
(HAZY) All the gate arrays <Buster, Gary, DMAC, Amber, RAMsey> are CMOS. CMOS is the future. And the present, for that matter.
(HAZY) The DMAC does somewhere around 20MB/s, certainly a tad more than the 4-5MB/s you can squeeze out of synchronous SCSI. The FIFO helps with bandwidth, but the DMAC is fast enough to ...
(HAZY) take over the bus, transfer a single longword, give back the bus, and still keep up with SCSI. DONE
(SKEEVE) K DAVIDSON, then HOWARD A, M.RANDALL, OZR626, LARSBO, FARMER-TED, -CAS-....
(K DAVIDSON) What brand hard drive<s> are in the 3000 ...
(K DAVIDSON) Do you have any performance data on them or the new file system...
(K DAVIDSON) And, by the way, what's the new file system called? {ga}
(HAZY) Right now, they
(HAZY) are using Quantums, same as in current 2000HDs and 2500s. I'm a little confused about which low-end drive we're using; we looked at both the normal Q40S and a new 50MB drive from Quantum.
(HAZY) The 100 Meg drive is definitely a newly designed Quantum, I have one of those puppies in my office. DONE
(SKEEVE) HOWARD A, then M.RANDALL, OZR626, LARSBO, FARMER-TED, -CAS-, BBROOK....
(HOWARD A) What is so different about the 2.0 OS for the 3000 and the 2000 that requires a September release date for the A2000? and ...
(HOWARD A) What version of UNIX and when? <system V.4?> GA
(HAZY) The current dealer demo 3000s have a Beta 2.0, which can be upgraded from floppy. The 3000 pretty much needs either 2.0 or a magic version of 1.3.2; both are on the demo units.
(HAZY) These may as well be on the first release units, but they won'
(HAZY) t ship 3000s for real without a pretty stable 2.0. The final, frozen version of 2.0 is expected by September, at which point all 3000s get real 2.0 ROMs, rather than the magic ROMs they ship with. At that point, the other machines...
(HAZY) get 2.0 as well. At least, that's what they tell me. The current 3000 ROMs do SetCPU type MMU stuff to give you either 2.0 or 1.3, selectable at powerup and loaded into RAM. DONE
(SKEEVE) OZR626, then LARSBO, FARMER-TED, -CAS-, BBROOK, ROBT*CCN, DOGBONE, MSU873....
(EWHAC) /!
(CBM*HARV) quick comment from leo?
(HAZY) Leo had a comment!
(EWHAC) Am I to understand that the boot screen which lets you select a boot device is not going to be permanent?
(EWHAC) GA
(HAZY) There are two screens. At powerup, the double-mouse holding <like 26x0> give you a 2.x or 1.3 boot menu. On reset, or if you're quick on powerup, you get the device menu. There's also a secret one that comes up if an ...
(HAZY) autoconfig device malfunctions. The latter two are permanent, far as I know. Once 2.0 is firmly in ROM, the OS select on powerup menu goes away.
(CHRISL) /!
(HAZY) That wouldn't likely work on other system, anyway. Only the A3000 really knows when it's been powered up vs. keyboard reset.
(HAZY) DONE
(SKEEVE) OZR626, then LARSBO, FARMER-TED, -CAS-, BBROOK, ROBT*CCN, DOGBONE, MSU873....
(OZR626) Why only 25 MHz when other computers are running upwards of 40MHz<i.e. the MacIIfx>...
(OZR626) will there be educational discounts...what is the resolution of 31KHz mode...
(HAZY) Several reasons. First, look at the Mac IIfx. The CPU/FPU and cache go at 40MHz, but the rest of the system goes at 20MHz.
(HAZY) That's not bad design, actually. There's not much, other than static cache and CPUs, that kick enough butt to run at 40Mhz.
(HAZY) Sip, Sip
(HAZY) Now, regardless of the CPU speed, the A3000 motherboard stuff was pretty much constrained to 25MHz, just based on DRAM speed, gate array speed, etc.
(HAZY) I look at these machines as platforms, and spend more time than you might think working on things like Coprocessor slots. You could put the same kind of 40MHz or 50MHz CPU/FPU/Cache in the A3000 CPU slot and have a IIfx-alike.
(HAZY) But if you don't want that, you get a really good 25MHz system at a really good price. And soon you won't want a 40MHz '030 anyway, you'll want a 33MHz 68040 or something. That'll work, and in fact, ...
(HAZY) there are a few A3000 features the 68030 doesn't use that the '040 will be real happy with. DONE
(CBM*HARV) dave...
(KRAIM) /!
(CBM*HARV) before we go to the next one...
(CBM*HARV) i need to pick up on the last part...
(CBM*HARV) of howard's question...
(CBM*HARV) which was...
(CBM*HARV) ><HOWARD A> What version of UNIX and when? <system V.4?> GA
(CBM*HARV) care to comment on that? GA.
(*D.HOOT.MAN) /?
(HAZY) OIC. No problem. It's AT&T System V.4, the one with the ABI, which goes along with AT&T's new policy of letting you call it UNIX rather than AMIX or something.
(CBM*HARV) thanks
(SKEEVE) LARSBO, then FARMER-TED, -CAS-, BBROOK, ROBT*CCN, DOGBONE, MSU873, GROGERS, ....
(LARSBO) Will the Amiga charge cards be usable for the 3000? <ga>
(CBM*HARV) [we still have about 17 questions in the queue...]
(HAZY) When is the question I can't answer. It's very far along, but there are marketing and AT&T factors enough such that I can't even venture a guess, other than "this year". DONE
(DJJAMES) question ted?
(FARMER-TED) Any info on the new monitor<s> and pricing? <GA>
(CBM*HARV) Larsbo.. remember you're talking to a hardware engineer.
(HAZY) There are MONSTERS in the UNIX group :->
(CBM*HARV) Credit Card stuff better asked to dealers or marketing folks
(HAZY) Monitors...
(HAZY) Well, there is this new one, which does the VGA-type resolutions, and the normal NTSCs with a switch. 1950, I think. That's the sum knowledge I have on the monitor. They're all OEMed, and sometimes we're the last to actually get any. DONE
(CBM*HARV) comment...
(CBM*HARV) the amigaworld article says...
(CBM*HARV) A1950 monitor, $799...
(CBM*HARV) A2024 monitor $749
(*TIM) /!
(CBM*HARV) quick comment tim?
(OZR626) /?
(-CAS-) Any disk caching in our future..and anything about Ethernet/novell product? <ga>
(JD WALLEY) /?
(HAZY) I'm using an A2024, pre-release, as we speak. If you like NeXT-ish 4 grey hireshiresolution, get one. They're cool.
(SPOLING) /?
(SKEEVE) -CAS-, then BBROOK, ROBT*CCN, DOGBONE, MSU873, GROGERS, *FORD PREFECT, C POIRIER....
(*TIM) off hand do you know who makes the 1950 <mitsubishi diamond scan, perhaps...>?
(HAZY) Sorry, I don't know that one. In the past I kept up with the OEMs, but this hads been an execptionally busy year. DONE
(BBROOK) The Bridgeboards come packed with a 5 1/4 drive. The 3000 has no space for a 5 1/4 drive. Are they going to unbundle ...
(SKEEVE) whoa, I think -CAS-'s question got lost in the shuffle.
(HAZY) The FileSystem has always supported software caching. I don't see any HW caching on the immediate horizon.
|
| 3723.9 | more news from VTX COMPUTER INDUSTRY NEWS | KETJE::VLASIU | | Fri Apr 27 1990 10:18 | 31 |
| COMMODORE LAUNCHES THE 68030 AMIGA 3000 WITH
AMIGA-DOS BUT PROMISES UNIX 5.4
Commodore International's UK Business Systems Division chose
Which as the venue for its introduction of the Amiga 3000
"multi-media" workstation, (CI No 1,412) which was also launched
at Sicob in Paris and at a press conference in New York. The
16MHz or 25MHz 68030-based system is Commodore's bid to be taken
seriously in the business marketplace, and it includes a 68881
floating point co-processor and Commodore's custom Amiga chipset
to offload the processing of graphics, animation, video and
sound. The Amiga 3000 also features the "Micro Channel-like"
32-bit Zorro expansion bus, and the ability in the future to add
processors, such as the 68040 or RISC chips, to boost the power.
Initially, the machine runs under the multi-tasking AmigaDOS 2.0
operating system, but Commodore is promising Unix "within a few
months", once it finalises its work on Unix System V.4. A new
icon-driven authoring system, called AmigaVision, will tie in
the multi-media capabilities of the 3000 for applications
developers under both AmigaDOS and Unix, providing the
facilities for developers to produce multi-media applications
for video production, computer-based training, animation and
graphics and in-store training or customer information services.
Showing just how seriously it was hoping to be taken, Commodore
compared the Amiga with Sun and Apollo workstations on the
stand, where it outperformed both running a CAD application.
Commodore also claimed it had beaten Rediffusion in a bid for
simulation equipment from the Civil Aviation Authority. Prices
start at #2,500 for the Amiga 3000 16-40, including 2Mb main
memory and 40Mb hard drive, up to #3,300 for the 25-90 with
100Mb drive.
|
| 3723.10 | More stuff on TAPE:: | KALI::PLOUFF | It came from the... dessert! | Fri Apr 27 1990 12:55 | 6 |
| I've uploaded two interesting archives to TAPE::USER2:[UPLOAD] that a
Usenet reader has made available, and are appropriate to this note:
CBIX3000.ZOO Two chatty BIX teleconferences on A3000
WB20PICS.LZH IFF pictures of v2.0 beta version screens, includes
some hi-res, more recent than WB14PICS.ZOO
|
| 3723.11 | Very Nice | ULTRA::KINDEL | Bill Kindel @ BXB1 | Fri Apr 27 1990 17:59 | 14 |
| re- << Well, time to logoff and run down to "the software shop". >>
I made my pilgrimage at lunch time. The A3000 is a bit shorter and
several inches narrower than the A2000 and has its floppy slot on the
left. The A3000 is still big enough to hold the monitor, though.
WB2.0's look is MUCH more professional (whatever that means) than WB1.*
was. No more garish color scheme -- it tends towards subdued blues and
greys. The window gadgets have been redesigned, but they haven't been
moved. What HAS moved is the default position of disk volume icons.
Rather than trailing down the right margin, they're now on the left.
Disk volume window headlines now state the space used/available in lieu
of the "fuel gauge" on the left. The icons for drawers and utilities
have also been redesigned. Overall, it's NICE.
|
| 3723.12 | Coming to a dealer near you... | CSC32::D_WHITE | | Sat Apr 28 1990 10:27 | 10 |
| For Amigos in Colorado, Peter at Paragon Computers on Garden of the
Gods Rd. claims that he will have a 3000 in his shop on Tuesday, 5/2.
He says that upgrade prices for 2.0 ROMS and trade-up deals won't be
announced for another month.
I warned him to cover his system with plastic, as there are undoubtedly
many interested people who will drool all over this one at the prospect
of actually getting their hands on one ...
Dave
|
| 3723.13 | Complete A3000 Conference | CACHE::BEAUREGARD | Time to change this message | Sat Apr 28 1990 15:24 | 657 |
|
Here is the downloaded transcripts of the A3000 conference held
on plink on thursday, April 25.
Bye the way, is anyone else haveing problems uploading to SHR. I've
always had no trouble until recently. I understand SHR has replaced
all the dial-in lines with Telcor 9600/2400/1200 baud modems. Could
this have something to do with it?
Roger
THE AMIGA 3000 CONFERENCE, WITH DAVE HAYNIE
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This is an edited transcript of a live conference which took place in
People/Link's Amiga Zone club on the evening of April 26, 1990. Our
special guest speaker was Dave Haynie (Plink: HAZY), who works
at Commodore Business Machines in West Chester, PA and is one of the
primary designers of the new Amiga 3000 (as well as other Commodore
computers as you'll see below).
This transcript in its entirety is COPYRIGHT 1990, THE AMIGA ZONE,
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. You have permission to make copies of this text
and re-post it to non-commercial Bulletin Board Systems (BBS) and to
reprint it in any User Group Newsletters providing you perform no further
editing on the contents of this text. If you do reprint this transcript
in your newsletter it would be appreciated if you would send a copy
to HR Laser, PO Box 10141, Torrance, CA 90505 for our records.
Commercial publication of this transcript is expressly forbidden without
prior written approval of THE AMIGA ZONE.
This transcript was edited down from a real-time capture which lasted
approximately three hours. A long intro explaining our "auditorium"
conferencing mode and other spurious comments have been deleted.
At the peak of the conference, there were 123 people in attendance.
This was the largest single conference ever held in the Amiga Zone.
The list of attendees at the end of this transcript reflect only the
Plink conference IDs of those who actually spoke during the conference,
not everyone who was in attendance.
---[begin edited transcript]-----
(HAZY) Hi, all. My name is Dave Haynie, and I have this neat canned text
for you to read:
Dave Haynie - Sr. Systems Engineer
With Commodore since October 1983, projects include:
Commodore PLUS/4 Hired to help finish this
Commodore 128 2nd in command on the HW
Amiga 2000 Engineer/Project Leader/Etc.
Amiga 2620 Took over 1/2 way through
Amiga 2630 Engineer/Project Leader/Etc.
Amiga 3000 Designed much!
AMIGA 3000 - Systems Design Team
Hedley Davis: Project manager, designed preliminary
DRAM controller <RAMSEY>, worked with the
PCB designers, worked on most of the "nice
touch" details.
Dave Haynie : Designed much of the basic architecture,
Zorro III specification, BUSTER chip,
Coprocessor slot.
Greg Berlin : The other Basic Architecture guy, designed
GARY and production RAMSEY chips.
Scott Hood : Designed the Display Enhancer chip <AMBER>,
worked on the later DMAC revision.
Jeff Boyer : Designed the DMAC chip <now working at GVP>.
AMIGA 3000 Features:
68030/68881 @ 16MHz or 68030/68882 @ 25MHz
ECS chips with 16/32 bit bus
Basic 2 meg RAM expands to a max of 18 megs on-board
Built-in Video Display Enhancer <like flickerFixer>
32/32 bit DMA SCSI at 68030 bus speeds
Four Zorro III slots, full 32 bit A/D with Zorro II
compatibility.
One 200 Pin CPU slot for advanced 32 bit enhancements
32 bit ROM
Low profile case <cutest machine since the 1000>
US List Prices <gee, a marketing thing>:
16MHz/40Meg $3299
25MHz/40Meg $3999
25MHz/100Meg $4699
SOME WORKBENCH 2.0 Features <keeping in mind I'm not the
software group>:
"New Look" Intuition, with OOPS
Major Workbench rework
"gadtools.libarary" for consistent and
easy to write applications
"commodities.library" for "hot key" and similar tools
AREXX! <Yea Bill!>
Even Faster FileSystem with LINKs
Reworked DOS with BCPL exorcised
Support for all ECS and Hedley monitor modes
Reworked Preferences system
ALL KINDS OF OTHER STUFF
Well, that's all the canned stuff I had time to write, guess
we should get to questions.
(*MAVERICK) Could you explain what the new display modes will be <GA>
(HAZY) The display modes are the normal Amiga modes, plus the new ECS stuff.
ECS includes the ability to display PAL or NTSC on the same
machine, and some new modes based on 35ns pixels. Those include
640x480x2 noninterlaced, 1280x200x2 noninterlace, 640x960x2
interlaced, and 1280x400x2 interlaced. The VGA-compatible port does
the proper scan doubling, scan conversion, or just plain "get out of
the way" to convert mode modes into something the average VGA monitor
would be happy with. The custom chips operate at the same bus speed
as in the 2000, however, the CPU has 32 bit access to chip RAM,
effectively doubling the CPU interface to the chips. DONE
(*FORD PREFECT) Does commodore have any intention of giving us a new Paula
with more sound channels in the forseeable future? ... <it
can't be THAT hard to add a few DAC's> ga
(HAZY) Well, while I can't really comment on unannounced products, it's a
safe bet that work has been going on in this area for some time.
Adding DACs might seem easy, but you have to realize that the video
chips are all NMOS, and about as big as NMOS chips ever get, due to
heat considerations. DONE
(ELRADOR) What is the BUSTER chip's job? GA
(HAZY) BUSTER is the Bus Controller, not exactly an acronym. In any case,
its job is to take 68030 signals and convert them to Zorro II or
Zorro III signals, as appropriate, for CPU access to expansion bus.
Going the other way, it converts bus signals into 68030 signals
during DMA. It 's also responsible for bus arbitration of CPU slot,
SCSI, Zorro II and Zorro III. DONE
(SNOWBIRD) Okay, so the custom chips are still not 32 bit, just what kind of
bottleneck... can we expect with heavy calls to chip ram, like in
video? How is that flow... handled? And do you still accept
macadamia nuts?
(HAZY) In what terms? As compared to an A2000, CPU calls to chip
RAM go slightly better than twice as fast on the 3000. As
compared to a Mac II with NuBus video, our CPU-to-video RAM
interface is about 1.4 times faster.
As compared to standard VGA, it's about 4 times faster. And yes,
Macadamia nuts rule.
(*TMCKEEL) Why the limit on colors with increased resolution? Future
improvements? GA
(HAZY) All video chip functions work the same as on an A2000. Though of
course, there's relatively little need for productivity mode, with
the scan converter built in. The limit on colors in the Denise 31kHz
modes are a result of the Denise architecture. Color registers really
run at lores speeds. However, normally, at hires 15kHz modes,
registers are basically doubled up and multiplexed out, so that the
effect is the same as if they ran full speed.
However, the speeds involved with 35ns pixels were
such that this multiplexing had to take place
bascially after the color lookup stage, not
before. So 12 bits get muxed into 6. The problem
is the 3 micron NMOS technology.
(CRYO) Is the non-disclosure lifted on the A3000 and <1.4>2.0? Does this
conference meand everything is now "public knowledge"? or are you
just <bending> the rules? GA
(HAZY) As far as I know, "Introduction" cancels out "non-disclosure".
However, as Andy Finkel suggested, developers would be wise to check
their agreements just so they don't get hosed. From my point of view,
everyone at Commodore's talking now, no one's told us to stop, and in
a day or two it'll all be moot anyway. But I ain't no lawyer :->
(JUMPDISK) Quick list of the new chips & their jobs, please? GA
(HAZY) BUSTER Expansion bus controller and bus arbiter GARY Local bus
controller RAMSEY DRAM controller and SCSI address generator DMAC
SCSI DMA data path chip AMBER Scan doubler/converter, similar to
what flickerFixer does
(SB1107) How much of this can be upgraded on a 2000... how many and what
kind of slots are in the A3000.. and is there a HD drive and format
being relased for the A3000 as per rumor? GA
(CBM*HARV) [quick comment.. I've seen the June Amiga World.. wonderful
pictures of *eveyrthing* in there.. should be out this week]
(HAZY) Well, with an ECS chipset, A2630, A2091, and flickerFixer,
you can almost get to where the A3000 starts out, minus the
32 bit chipram and 32 bit DMA. Also, A2630 memory is only
as fast as the slowest A3000 memory.
There's no way to upgrade an A2000 to 32 bit chipram, Zorro III, or
the new CPU slot. High density floppy? There will be something
eventually, UNIX compatibility requires a 1.44 meg floppy. Slots: 4
Amiga slots <Zorro III, which means they support Zorro II as well>.
On the 3000, they're horizontal, and the middle two have AT slots
in-line with them, the top slot has the video slot in-line with it.
(DANBABCOCK) Does the built-in flickerfixer handle both NTSC and PAL modes?
Does it support "overscan"? <to what extent?> What kind of RAM
is used for the ff buffer? GA
(HAZY) The Video Display Enhancer supports PAL and NTSC
with overscan; at least a reasonable amount, I
don't know it's limits offhand. The Amber chip
works with special line and field store memories,
something like what they
Use in digital TVs. And it's reasonably smart -- if you kick Denise
into 31kHz mode, it gets out of the way. If you
Go into a non-interlaced mode, it only scan
doubles, so there's no ghosting. Only thing it
doesn't do a nice job on is the 1280 pixel modes,
since that would take twice the memory and a chip
that goes twice as fast <DONE>
(AMIGA*BOB) Is the video slot a different form factor than
2000? How compatible? Can you fit an AT Bridge
in the 3000 and not lose the adjacent slot?
Where would Bridge disk drive go..doesnt look
like much room for it in the pics. GA
(HAZY) The slot spacing is the same, so an AT card would obscure the
adjacent slot. Sorry. The video slot is the top slot; we had to use
the extra space there, rather than for an AT, since all video cards
have the option of being fatter than a normal Zorro card.
Any video card that followed the specified
form factor will work <see A500/A2000
Technical Reference Manual>, though
ideallly it'll want a different end plate.
Those that use all the available, rather
than specified, space in ...
The A2000 won't fit. That's why we write specifications :-> DONE
(*D.HOOT.MAN) Is the 2meg Agnus new ? Will my 1 meg agnus need replaced ?
<a2500> GA
(HAZY) The 1 meg versus 2 meg is the same internally, but
packaged differently. 8732A vs. 8732B. You can't
easily add one to your A2000 because the pinout is
slightly different, and you don't have another meg on
the chip bus.
I suppose some of the Agnus hackers working on A1000s right now might
cram it into your 2000, but it wouldn't be real pretty.DONE
(CJCARTER) Dave, Do you see CMOS in the future of the AMIGA family? and What
is the data transfer rate of the DMAC? <GA>
(HAZY) All the gate arrays <Buster, Gary, DMAC, Amber, RAMsey> are CMOS.
CMOS is the future. And the present, for that matter. The DMAC does
somewhere around 20MB/s, certainly a tad more than the 4-5MB/s you
can squeeze out of synchronous SCSI. The FIFO helps with bandwidth,
but the DMAC is fast enough to ... take over the bus, transfer a
single longword, give back the bus, and still keep up with SCSI.
DONE
(K DAVIDSON) What brand hard drive<s> are in the 3000 ... Do you have any
performance data on them or the new file system... And, by the
way, what's the new file system called? {ga}
(HAZY) Right now, they are using Quantums, same as in current 2000HDs and
2500s. I'm a little confused about which low-end drive we're using;
we looked at both the normal Q40S and a new 50MB drive from Quantum.
The 100 Meg drive is definitely a newly designed Quantum, I have one
of those puppies in my office. DONE
(HOWARD A) What is so different about the 2.0 OS for the 3000 and the 2000
that requires a September release date for the A2000? and ...
What version of UNIX and when? <system V.4?> GA
(HAZY) The current dealer demo 3000s have a Beta 2.0, which can be upgraded
from floppy. The 3000 pretty much needs either 2.0 or a magic
version of 1.3.2; both are on the demo units. These may as well be on
the first release units, but they won' ship 3000s for real without
a pretty stable 2.0. The final, frozen version
of 2.0 is expected by September, at
which point all 3000s get real 2.0
ROMs, rather than the magic ROMs they
ship with. At that point, the other machines...
(HAZY) Get 2.0 as well. At least, that's what they tell me. The current
3000 ROMs do SetCPU type MMU stuff to give you either 2.0 or 1.3,
selectable at powerup and loaded into RAM. It's AT&T System V.4, the
one with the ABI, which goes along with AT&T's new policy of letting
you call it UNIX rather than AMIX or something. When is the question
I can't answer. It's very far along, but there are marketing and
AT&T factors enough such that I can't even venture a guess, other
than "this year". DONE There are MONSTERS in the UNIX group :->
(EWHAC) Am I to understand that the boot screen which lets you select a boot
device is not going to be permanent?
(HAZY) There are two screens. At powerup, the
double-mouse holding <like 26x0> give you a 2.x or
1.3 boot menu. On reset, or if you're quick on
powerup, you get the device menu. There's also a
secret one that comes up if an ...
Autoconfig device malfunctions. The latter two are permanent, far as
I know. Once 2.0 is firmly in ROM, the OS select on powerup menu
goes away. That wouldn't likely work on other system, anyway. Only
the A3000 really knows when it's been powered up vs. keyboard reset.
(OZR626) Why only 25 MHz when other computers are running upwards of
40MHz<i.e. the MacIIfx>... will there be educational
discounts...what is the resolution of 31KHz mode...
(HAZY) Several reasons. First, look at the Mac IIfx. The CPU/FPU and cache
go at 40MHz, but the rest of the system goes at 20MHz. That's not bad
design, actually. There's not much, other than static cache and
CPUs, that kick enough butt to run at 40Mhz. Sip, Sip Now, regardless
of the CPU speed, the A3000 motherboard stuff was pretty much
constrained to 25MHz, just based on DRAM speed, gate array speed, etc.
I look at these machines as platforms, and
spend more time than you might think working
on things like Coprocessor slots. You could
put the same kind of 40MHz or 50MHz
CPU/FPU/Cache in the A3000 CPU slot and have a
IIfx-alike.
But if you don't want that, you get a really good 25MHz system at a
really good price. And soon you won't want a 40MHz '030 anyway,
you'll want a 33MHz 68040 or something. That'll work, and in fact,
There are a few A3000 features the 68030 doesn't use that the '040
will be real happy with.
Well, there is this new one, which does the VGA-type resolutions,
and the normal NTSCs with a switch. 1950, I think.
That's the sum knowledge I have on the monitor. They're all
OEMed, and sometimes we're the last to actually get any. I'm
using an A2024, pre-release, as we speak. If you like NeXT-ish 4
grey hireshiresolution, get one. They're cool.
(LARSBO) Will the Amiga charge cards be usable for the 3000? <ga>
(CBM*HARV) Larsbo.. remember you're talking to a hardware engineer. Credit
Card stuff is better asked to dealers or marketing folks comment:
the amigaworld article says... A1950 monitor, $799... A2024
monitor $749
(-CAS-) Any disk caching in our future..and anything about Ethernet/novell
product? <ga>
(HAZY) The FileSystem has always supported software caching. I don't see
any HW caching on the immediate horizon. I've been using the Ethernet
board with old software for the last 6 months or so, and I wouldn't
be without it. Client FTP and NFS, thought the new software is
supposed to go in both directions. The Novell stuff is based on an
ArcNet card, and I've seen it work. Unlike with PCs, where you run a
whole new OS, the Novell works much like NFS on an Amiga. DONE
(*TIM) Off hand do you know who makes the 1950 <mitsubishi diamond scan,
perhaps...>?
(HAZY) Sorry, I don't know that one. In the past I kept up with the OEMs,
but this hads been an execptionally busy year. DONE
(BBROOK) The Bridgeboards come packed with a 5 1/4 drive. The 3000 has no
space for a 5 1/4 drive. Are they going to unbundle ... them or
what -- also you mentioned doing a lot of work on coprocessor stuff
does that mean a 2640 soon? ga
(HAZY) BBROOK: **Marketroid Question** I believe they should, or offer the
option of 3.5" or external. What they'll do remains to be seen. How
about I ask, that's a good question. DONE
(STEVEX) 3640? 8->
(ROBT*CCN) You mentioned a 32/32 bit DMA SCSI, will this be the new SCSI II
formfacter, what kind of x-fer speed can we expect from say a
20-30ms Hard Drive and how will the... new FF with links affect
floppy speed? Does 2.0 have Virtual Memory capabilities in the
future and did you let slip that a 68040 will work in an A3000?
<GA>
(HAZY) Now, about that SCSI question... The SCSI does support SCSI-2, but
don't confuse that with SCSI-16, which no one supports.
Far as I know, the SCSI-2 protocol is still limited to
transfer rates of 4-5 MBs/s. However, based on the
hardware caching done in the drive, or lack thereof,
you may never see such rates. The drives to have to
seek.
(ROBT*CCN) How will the new FF with Links affect floppy access... Does 2.0
have virtual memory capabilities for the future and did you let
slip that the 68040 willwork with the A3000 with other
features... <GA>
(HAZY) OK, Links first. There are logical and hard links. I don't know how
they affect floppies, though. I imagine logical links across volumes
would pop up "Please Insert" requestors, if they linked to the volume
name. I don't know what physical links would do, eor if they're
supported across volume. The 2.0 OS has VM "hooks", in that, you can
write 2.0 programs that will be VM dfriendly, including DMA HD
drivers. VM isn't built-in, but could certainly be an add-on before
3.0 is out :-> And yes, I designed the Coprocessor slot with
foreknowledge of the 68040, and we put in stuff that made sense with
the 68040 where it fit. This was all done before we saw a real '040.
DONE
(DOGBONE) Yes, I've heard the the 3000 has 1MB of CHIP and 1MB of FAST ram,
and that you can punch these out to 2MB and 4MB respectively...
What type of memory can you install on the motherboard and is it
socketed? GA
(HAZY) The 3000 comes with 1 Meg Chip, 1 Meg Fast. Both megs are socketed,
256Kx4 DIP parts. Whoops, the first meg of Chip isn't socketed, no
reason for it to be. You could yank out the Fast RAM and plug the
same chips into the chip bus, for 12 Megs Chip, 0 Megs Fast, when you
get the machine. Then, however, you'll notice many rows of ZIP sockets
<yes, we
finally found XZIZIP sockets that work>. These can be upgraded,
a meg at a time, with 100ns or better 256kx4 ZIPs for 4 meg total
Fast memory...
(HAZY) Or with 1Meg x 4 ZIPs for a total of 16Meg Fast memory. If you get
static column memory, you'll go faster than with the more common page
more memory. DONE
(GROGERS) Will the VGA port support the 1000 + pixel resolutions? is the
processor slot optimized for use with cache ram? kind of a shame
to have a 25 mhz cpu with 100ns dram. how many waits with sc dram?
any idea if there will be a Vd0 equivalent in 2.0?
(HAZY) The 1000+ resolutions come by way of a Hedley monitor, since VGA
doesn't do 1000+ resolutions. Other than that, you'll need a video
card like the ULowell or HiTension. The processor slot is deigned to
support add-on cache for the on-board CPU as well as CPU boards with
their own cache. (RAM either for their graphics device or ...)
The difference between 100ns DRAM and 80ns DRAM isn't
enough to give you back a wait state. We run fewer wait
states than the NeXT, and the same or better than the Mac
IIci. The IIci requires 80ns DRAM either for their graphics
device or ...
(HAZY) Because they weren't making their own DRAM controller. At 25MHz, we
run 5 clock standard access <like the A2630>, 2 clock burst with
SCRAMs, and 3 clock page detection hits with SCRAM. At 16MHz, it's a
4 clock standard, 2 clock burst, and either 2 or 3 page hit <shoulda
asked Greg today>
(C POIRIER) Fan noise been reduced? Also,... Idea: ever think of putting a
variable voltage on the fan, controlled by a signal monitoring
average power supply drain? GA
(HAZY) Funny you should mention that. I'm not sure if it's in the demo units
<though the fan is, at worst, quieter than the 2000's fan>, but one of
the "nice touch"th things Hedley's been working with is FAN.
(HAZY) There's a heat sensor which determines how fast the fan should go
and, consequently, how noisy it gets. DONE
(J. WOLF) About the floppy drives... Can the 3000 support HD floppy drives &
if so, why was one not included with the system? GA
(HAZY) They're working on HD floppies, which are required by UNIX. There are
several options for adding these to the system, each of which
involves "cleverness" rather than "new Paula".
I don't know enough about the direction they're leaning in to
comment much furtyher. It would require a modification to the
current trackdisk, but it could very well be "in there" by the
time 2.0 is frozen.
(EWHAC) Why does UNIX care one way or the other about floppy density/size?
GA
(HAZY) Because of ABI. UNIX standards are currently 1.44 density floppies,
one kind of tape cartridge, and one kind of reel magtape. If you
want to go into a store and buy APP-X for "68030 UNIX",
you need to get in on your machine easily.
(OSS935) Does the SCSI controller support removable media <ie, Syquest>?
<GA>
(HAZY) The A3000 scsi.device supports DiskChange. DONE
(G KINSEY) Dave, a VERY rough estimate on when the next-generation
Agnes/Denise/Paula will be done? <i.e. how many years?> Also
possibility for more A3000 slots via a add-on cage or a larger
A3000? GA
(HAZY) I can't say much, but I'd be surprised if we didn't see more new
stuff at leas bt in 1991. There are lots of things happening in
paralle at Commodore. You could add one more A3000 slot and many more
IBM slots with a new daughterboard/backplane. The Zorro bus needs
slot specific signals as well as the bussed signals, and I ... made
more use of these three lines in the Zorro III bus than Zorro II did.
So you can't add slots without expanding the bus controller. DONE
(*JON*K) Dave, what problems do you forsee with the 3000 not having a 68000
and having WB 2.0? Does it look like most software will .... break?
Also, earlyier you mentioned a limit on the video port. Does it
look like there might be problems with the Video .... Toaster? GA
(HAZY)) Once 2.0 is solid, I forsee little trouble. There may be
programs that don't work on the 68030, but realize that
they've had almost two years of official CBM 32 bit machines,
not to mention 3rd party machine ...<which didn't easily allow
use of the 68000> to get their act together. I put the
"reboot to 68000" feature in there to help out developers who
only have 1 machine; I wasn't thinking compatibility of bad
applications.
The software group and CATS are actively working with folks who've
had problems with 2.0 to get the differences resolved. The level
this, as I see it, is an order of magnitude above the 1.3 effort.
DONE
(SKEEVE) Newtek reps told me that electrically the Toaster will work with
the 3000, but that they'd need to have a different physical
design.
(NY*JIM) 2.0 has been available to software devs for compatibility testing,
so anything that might break is fixable
(THING*) What effect will the 68030 lawsuit/production-freeze have on 3000
production? And is there SRAM in the "near" future? GA
(HAZY) Currently, the lawsuit has had no effect, since Moto can still sell
them. Personally, I think Moto will do anything they can to talk
with Hitachi, since the '030 is estimated at over 20% of their
business.
If you're talking SRAM memory for the 3000 system,
don't expect it from Commodore. But I know of a 3rd
party with prototypes for the A2630 that would sit
comfortably in the 3000 CPU slot and go at full 68030
speed.
(HAZY) I think, for the power user, cache in the CPU slot make more sense,
but with 2-4 meg of no wait SRAM, the average user might never go
outside of that memory. The CPU slot supports and address space
decode of 128M of RAM, and the OS considers it the fastest memory in
the system is there's any there. DONE
(KRAIM) Dave, are the custom chips now running 25MHZ with 32 Bit access, and
are there plans for a de-interlacer for the 2000? GA
(HAZY) The custom chips, or more likely, the Agnus/Denise/Paula, are
still clocked with one or both of the 7.16MHz clocks, as in
an ECS 2000. The chip memory is 32 bit wide, but only the
CPU can take advantage of that.
(HAZY) All the new bus-oriented A3000 chips <Buster, Gary, DMAC, RAMsey> are
clocked with one or both of the 16 or 25MHz clocks. For the
non-technical, I should point out what I mean by "one or both".
There are two phases of both 7.16 and the 16/25 MHz clocks.
If a chip uses both, it is essentially running at twice the
clock frequence. For example, the Buster chip I designed uses both
25MHz clocks, and parts of it are basically running at 50MHz, though
using the 90 degree clocks makes it
(HAZY) Easier to build the chip ... 50MHz anything is hard to deal with.
DONE Oh, de-interlace. It's feasable, but it's a **Marketroid
Question**
(KEN BAER) Dave, are there any special provisions in the A3000 architecture
for expanded graphics beyond ECS resolutions? Also, any problems
getting the ULowell Board to work on the A3000? Any efforts to
update the graphics.library to support it?..
(KEN BAER) And what is the HiTension board you mentioned? GA
(HAZY) Most of the ULowell work is done, not surprisingly, at ULowell. But
they've worked with our UNIX group on color X,
and will undoubtedly work with the appropriate folks under AmigaOS.
New graphics.library isn't, for some reasons...
I am not familiar with, harder than you think. In that the Zorro III
bus has at least a 2 <16MHz> to 4 <25MHz> times improvement in
bandwidth over Mac's NuBus, there's no doubt you could build
bus-resident graphics boards that go fast.
(HAZY) Any new AMIGA chips are likely a Zorro III card, a motherboard swap,
that kind of thing.
An English company at Paris DevCon. They build Air Traffic Controller
simulators, or some-such. They have two graphics boards,
one 1600x1200 or so, with 16 colors, the other has 256 colors. Not
sure of the pallette. Good board,
(HAZY) Worked in the 3000. They build this for a software vendor who does
the dedicated app; I don't know if they sell it sepatatedly.
(SKEEVE) On behalf of PLINK, I'd like to extend our thanks to Dave for
helping make history tonight. <123 simultaneous users in a single
conference line> Plus for being willing to do this conf. and also
for being a heck of a nice guy! :>
(CBM*HARV) That's it! THANKS TO EVERYONE FOR YOUR PATIENCE... THANKS TO DAVE
HAYNIE FOR HIS GREAT INFORMATION...
(JUMPDISK) Thank you Dave
(SKEEVE) THANKS DAVE!!!!
(AMIGA*JOHN) Thanks mucho, Dave.
(HOWARD A) Thanks Dave
(ROBT*CCN) Nice going to Dave, and the moderators; Skeeve, DJJAMES, and Harv
for actually controlling and organizing 123 people for the
largest PLINK conference ever! GREAT JOB!!!
(CBM*HARV) WE ARE NOW OUT OF [AUDITORIUM] MODE...
(BAUDMAN) Yeah thanks... Oh Holy Hazy!
(STEVEX) Thanks, Dave.
(KRAIM) Thanks Dave
(G KINSEY) Thanks Dave!
(EXPRESSWAY) Thanks Dave!
(EWHAC) Excellent talk Dave!
(DAVID-C) Thanks, Dave
(THING*) Thanx Dave! Hip,hip.......
(OZR626) Thanks dave!!!
(RICHW) Thanks Dave
(C POIRIER) Thanks, Dave.
(J. WOLF) THANKS DAVE!
--[End of edited transcript]----
Participants who spoke (in order of appearance):
HAZY *MAVERICK *FORD PREFECT
ELRADOR SNOWBIRD *TMCKEEL
CRYO JUMPDISK SB1107
CBM*HARV DANBABCOCK
*D.HOOT.MAN CJCARTER K DAVIDSON
HOWARD A EWHAC OZR626
-CAS- *TIM BBROOK
STEVEX ROBT*CCN DOGBONE
GROGERS C POIRIER J. WOLF
OSS935 G KINSEY *JON*K
SKEEVE NY*JIM THING*
KRAIM KEN BAER AMIGA*JOHN
BAUDMAN EXPRESSWAY DAVID-C
|
| 3723.14 | correction | CACHE::BEAUREGARD | Time to change this message | Sat Apr 28 1990 15:27 | 10 |
|
<< Here is the downloaded transcripts of the A3000 conference held
on plink on thursday, April 25. >>
oops, that's thursday, April 26th.
Roger
|
| 3723.15 | | PEEVAX::GIFFORD | My dunny was kicked down by chooks! | Sun Apr 29 1990 20:51 | 16 |
| According to reports in the local press (which occasionally correlates with
reality), The A3000 ....
1. Will not be available in Australia for a while (3-6 months).
2. Will cost about $AUS6000 ( the actual conversion from $us3000 gives $aus4500)
Phil - I suspect it will be even worse in NZ!
Regards Stan
P.S I wish I wus clever and understood exchange rates - $US1.00 = $Aus0.75
Why then do I pay $aus2.00 more for my Analog magazine in Australia when
a. The rate of exchange stays static &
b. The price increases in the states by $0.50????
|
| 3723.16 | other nice features | CRISTA::LEIMBERGER | I have my marbles now I want yours | Mon Apr 30 1990 07:10 | 4 |
| The icons on the 2.0 screen can be moved anywhere via a set of
buttons on the bottem right corner of the screen.Also note the
iconify button on the upper left next to the depth gadgets.
bill
|
| 3723.17 | Glossies in Reading - no machine though. | SUBURB::MCDONALDA | Old Elysian with a big D.I.C. | Mon Apr 30 1990 08:54 | 11 |
| For those in and around Reading, and didn't make it to Which?.
Computer Care South (Oxford road) has some Commodore glossies on the
A3000 and AmigaVision. There are a couple of views of workbench V2.0 -
very nice and slick looking, the grey looks very 'professional'
I phoned up Commodore UK last week about info on the A3000. The
lady in sales/marketing said they hadn't received any; most probably
all at Which? - though she could hav said.
Angus
|
| 3723.18 | | LEDS::ACCIARDI | Larger than life, and twice as ugly | Mon Apr 30 1990 09:43 | 36 |
|
I went down to examine the A3000 at the Software Shop in Worcester.
I hadn't seen any pictures yet, so I was surprised at how small and
attractive the package is. It actually resembles a Mac IIci somewhat.
Moe also had a set of the new stereo speakers set up. They lookand
sound good.
The A3000 front panel actually has room for two 3 1/2" floppies; the
second bay is cleverly hidden by a panel.
The fan is almost silent, no roar like the A2000 fan.
The rear panel has a VGA style 31.5 KHz connector right next to the
standard 15.75 KHz video connector.
WorkBench 2.0: This is really an amazing improvement. Visually, the
most appealing desktop you've ever seen, and it does everything.
I tried out a few of the more popular software packages and they ran
fine under 2.0...
ProWrite 2.5
DeluxePaintIII
Draw 2000
Professional Page
Actually, this machine didn't have real production 2.0 ROMS, as they
are not considered stable yet. Moe claimed that the machine had been
'Kick-Booted' with a disk based 2.0.
Oh, the best part... the built in 31.5 KHz video is absolutely gorgeous,
and appears to work exactly like the MicroWay FlickerFixer. Moe had a
Mitsubishi Diamondscan monitor attached, and the display was flawless.
Ed.
|
| 3723.19 | I saw one too | TLE::RMEYERS | Randy Meyers | Mon Apr 30 1990 13:29 | 116 |
| Re: .18
I looks like most Amiga dealers got 3000s to display! Commodore must
have had a plan to get a demo machine to each dealer so it could be
displayed shortly after the launch. Anyway, System Eyes had a 3000
when I dropped by Saturday. They had the new Commodore multiscan
monitor and the new Commodore stereo speakers plugged in.
The 3000 itself look like a IBM PS/2. It is surprisingly small.
The on/off switch is a big PS/2-style paddle switch on the front
of the machine. The mouse and joystick connectors are on the
side, sort of like the Amiga 1000 (but set further back).
The new Commodore multiscan has a sharp clear picture. It is the
best monitor that Commodore has every sold.
The stereo speakers are small (about four or five inches tall),
and look like classier versions of those speakers for walkman
tape players. I didn't do anything that caused the machine to
make noise, so I don't know how they sound.
> The fan is almost silent, no roar like the A2000 fan.
The fan is much quieter. One of the Bix or PeopleLink transcripts
uploaded made mention of a temperature-controlled fan. The fan's
speed increases as the temperature in the system box increases.
I am not sure if that feature is in the demo units, although.
> Actually, this machine didn't have real production 2.0 ROMS, as they
> are not considered stable yet. Moe claimed that the machine had been
> 'Kick-Booted' with a disk based 2.0.
Yep, one of the transcripts mentioned this. The dealer demo units
don't have kickstart ROMs. They load kickstart at power-up. They
can load either Kickstart 2.0 or a mutant version of Kickstart 1.3.
Normal Kickstart 1.3 doesn't work with the machine. The loadable
kickstart is NOT going to be a feature in the production machines.
Commodore wanted to announce the machine and ship the deal demo
units, but Kickstart 2.0 wasn't ready. (By the way, to change
Kickstarts in the demo machines you have to power them down!)
> The rear panel has a VGA style 31.5 KHz connector right next to the
> standard 15.75 KHz video connector.
There is a new graphics chip in the 3000 that acts like a FlickerFixer,
and is responsible for the output of the VGA style connector. It
eliminates flicker in the 320 x 400 line and 640 x 400 interlace modes.
It acts as a scan doubler (eliminate the black lines) in the non-
interlaced mode. Unfortunately, in the 1280 x 400 mode, you still
get interlace. The chip can't de-interlace that mode because there
are too many pixels.
> workbench 2.0: This is really an amazing improvement. Visually, the
> most appealing desktop you've ever seen, and it does everything.
No kidding. If you though the NeXT machine had a snazzy interface,
you'll love Workbench 2.0. The 3D effect is quite nice. The bummer
is that all of your old icons are going to look terrible: the
new colors are gray-black-pale blue-white instead of the old
blue-white-black-orange. So, the white in your old icons becomes
black, the black becomes pale blue, and the orange becomes white.
Makes the old icons look like negative images.
The gadgets controlling windows have changed: The window to front
gadget is not a combination front and back gadget. If you click
on it when the window is not the front window, the window jumps
to the front. Click on it when the window is the front window,
and the window jumps to the back. In place of the old window to
back gadget, is an iconify gadget. Windows shrink and jump out
of the way when you clink it the first time. Click it again,
and the window returns to its previous size and position.
The window gadgets have new images that look a bit more spiffy.
Those of you who downloaded the Workbench 1.4/2.0 pictures
we be relieved to know the gadgets are not blank squares.
I gets the gadget imagery wasn't done for the beta release.
The CLI window has a close gadget, and remembers what text is
being displayed. If you shrink the window so that it only has
room to display four lines, the you see the last four lines that
were in the window when you changed its size, instead of the
first four lines of the window. Change the window to be full
size, and all of the text that was displayed before you shrank
the window is displayed.
The CLI window (maybe all CON: windows) supports cut-n-paste
of the text being displayed.
The Workbench supports lots of new menus.
You can changes the resolution and number of bitplanes used
by the Workbench screen on the fly without rebooting (however,
only Workbench windows may be open when you do this). One
bitplane (two color) Workbench screens are supported, as well
as four bitplane (16 color) Workbench screens.
A bare Amiga 3000 has built in several things that are options in
a Amiga 2000. An Amiga 2000 with:
An 68030 card
A flicker fixer
A hard disk controller
A memory card
The enhanced chipset
is close to a bare Amiga 3000. The 3000 has a faster interface
to the custom chips, and can address 2 Meg chip memory while
a 2000 can only address 1 Meg. The 3000 does not have a 68000
in it, so games that break the rules will not run. You can't
boot into 68000 mode, like a 2000 with a Commodore accelerator
card.
If I read the BIX & PeopleLink transcripts correctly, the motherboard
has sockets for 16 Meg of expansion ram. But that's if you use
4 megbit ZIP chips. You can use 1 megabit ZIP chips for 4 Meg
on the motherboard.
A very nice machine with a really aggressive price.
|
| 3723.20 | look (and buy) but don't touch... | NAVCOM::ARNOLD | | Wed May 02 1990 15:24 | 19 |
|
I went to System Eyes yesterday to see the Amiga 3000 in person.
I was about to sit down in front of the machine when the salesman
(Steve wasn't there) came running up yelling "No touching the 3000!!".
I said "What do you mean no touching" (obviously I would have broken
the machine if I moved the mouse and opened a window). He then said,
"That's the rules, no touching the 3000". Of course, his next sentence
was "So, you wanna order one? You better get your order in before
June or you won't get one until *who* knows when". Computer dealers
think they're God's gift to the world when they get a new machine in.
They treat you like you know nothing (I've owned an Amiga since October
1985) and then expect you to plunk down $3500 for a machine that you're
not even allowed to touch. Right.
I let *him* show me a couple of the new features and then I left...
-Jeff
|
| 3723.21 | my experience was different | SAUTER::SAUTER | John Sauter | Wed May 02 1990 16:01 | 4 |
| When I visited the Amiga 3000 at System Eyes, last weekend, they had no
problem letting me use the machine. Steve wasn't there at that time
either, but I go in every Saturday, so the employees know me.
John Sauter
|
| 3723.22 | | NOVA::ARNOLD | | Wed May 02 1990 16:14 | 9 |
|
I'm sure things would have been different if Steve was there (in my
case). I don't think I've even seen this particular employee before.
I'm not really upset about what happened. It was just the general
attitude of "Don't touch, but please spend lots of money" that
was kind of funny.
-Jeff
|
| 3723.23 | Why call them "sales" people? | CRISTA::CAPRICCIO | Krusty was framed! | Wed May 02 1990 16:23 | 17 |
| Re: .20
> I was about to sit down in front of the machine when the salesman
> (Steve wasn't there) came running up yelling "No touching the 3000!!".
Actually, rumor has it that Steve issued the "hands off" order. I can
understand the dealers wanting to protect their investments, but that's
ridiculous. The way I see it (okay, the way I see most things is
twisted at best), when you own/manage/work in a retail establishment,
*any* customer may mean a possible sale. And if customers are treated
well, they usually become repeat customers. Granted, many customers are
a pain in the butt (I should know...) and patience is a large advantage
to a salesperson, but a sale is their proverbial bread and butter. That
means from the dreamers that walk out with only a magazine or brochure
to guy ready to "deal".
Petey-Spouts-Off-Again
|
| 3723.24 | Can't please everyone. | SHARE::DOYLE | | Thu May 03 1990 09:20 | 7 |
| The other week when I was there, I overheard Steve telling some other
customer that a boy was showing his father the machine when Steve heard
him say.."Hey dad, whanna see me format the hard-drive."
Can't exactly blame his attitued.
Ed "The-dreamer-who-buys-Magazines"
|
| 3723.25 | I didn't touch it, but I could have... | HYSTER::DEARBORN | Trouvez Mieux | Thu May 03 1990 10:46 | 19 |
| Well, I got a pretty complete demo of it yesterday, at System
Eyes. The only problem is that 2.0 is such a memory hog, that
they can't even run Professional Page without adding additional
memory! You can open the screen but you are left with only 330
of memory left. That doesn't allow you to do anything without
meeting the guru. I guess this has something to do with Kickstart
being on disk...
You can boot to 1.3 by holding down both mouse buttons on power
up. Later, someone else got a demo which included removing the
cover.
Looks good, but I'll never have the money to afford one.
Has anyone heard anything else about the DVS Wonder?
Randy
|
| 3723.26 | after market 500's on decline? | MILKWY::JANZEN | Tom 228-5421 FXO/28 | Thu May 03 1990 11:19 | 3 |
| So now what happens to the resale value of old Amiga 500's?
Since the 3000 is so many $$ it may not have much effect.
Tom
|
| 3723.27 | Come see the A3000 under glass | CRISTA::CAPRICCIO | Krusty was framed! | Thu May 03 1990 13:53 | 19 |
| Re: .24
� him say.."Hey dad, whanna see me format the hard-drive."
� Can't exactly blame his attitued.
I can understand his attitude from an aggravation standpoint, but even
if the little brat 8^) did such a dirty deed, that's not the same as
carving his initials into the front of the machine. Often times a hard
drive gets trashed just from a "stupid" mistake, but that's what backups
are for. This could inadvertently happen to the guy giving the demo. A
dealer buys "capital" equipment to demo it. How would you feel if you
went into a car dealer ready to buy, and they told you you couldn't
test drive it? Granted you've got to sometimes weed out the joyriders,
but you run the risk of losing a potential sale. IMHO, every sale
counts, no matter how small. If I go into a place once a week and buy a
mag and get treated poorly, I'm gonna think twice before plunking down
some serious money in the same place.
Petey "I-*hate*-salespeople!"
|
| 3723.28 | | DICKNS::MACDONALD | VAXELN - Realtime Software Pubs | Thu May 03 1990 16:35 | 2 |
|
So, what is System Eyes' price for the box?
|
| 3723.29 | Looks like I'll get that MBA after all.... | CSC32::J_PARSONS | George Stark: Not A Very Nice Guy | Thu May 03 1990 21:01 | 3 |
| Just read on usenet, someone called Commodore and found out that the
educational discount price for an A3000/25 40 meg system, with the 1950
monitor, is going to be $2879.
|
| 3723.30 | V2.0 a memory hog? | MEDDLE::ANUSZCZYK | Prepare for ludicrous speed! | Fri May 04 1990 09:27 | 12 |
|
RE: .25
Well it depends on your term "memory hog". I was playing with the 3000
last Saturday, before Steve clamped down, and asked permission to reboot
the machine to see what it looked like "fresh". After the reboot the
system had (from memory) about 800K of chip memory and 750K of fast memory.
If you can run PPage on a 2000 with just 1M of chip memory you should do
fine under V2.0 on the 3000. If not, maybe PPage has a problem (i.e. - the
old I don't see any fast memory because I see 1M of chip problem.)
- Jeff
|
| 3723.31 | OS -> FastMem | FROCKY::BALZER | Christian Balzer DTN:785-1029 | Fri May 04 1990 09:49 | 10 |
| Re: .25, .30
Well, V2.0 is not using _that_ much more memory than 1.3.
Assuming that the demo units at the dealers KickRam the OS, you'll loose
a solid 512KB of FastMem. But of course the production units will have that
in (EP)ROM's...
<CB>
|
| 3723.32 | An ounce of prevention | SALEM::LEIMBERGER | | Mon May 07 1990 07:25 | 29 |
| I spend a lot of time at system eyes,and have played with the 3000
enough to know that 2.0 while offering many more features can be
a little more confusing. I don't think the "hands off" policy is
out of line. re .20,.27 It may be true that you can back up the
software but if a nerd sits down,plays with a bunch of options,and
then elects to save these,you have effectivly lost your demo of
2.0 until it can be corrected.You can drive a demo car,but only
if you have a license to show your capable,and then you have to obtain
the salespersons permission. I have seen many people play with the
3000 without any hassels.If Steve is not there the salesclerks have
to make the call.You drive a car because it is necessary to see
how it rides.I think the screen will look the same on the 3000 if
you,or the salesman press the mouse button.BTW it is the same mouse
you have on the rest of the amiga line so you already have a headstart
on how it feels. The documentation is next to the system,and you
would be suprized at how few people want to take time to read it.
When you shop for a car the saleperson shows you where the instruments
are,and what the levers do(some want to go on the test ride).Then
they allow you to try it.Only a fool would let "just anyone" come
in and play with their only demo model. Many of us on the net have
established dealers,that know,and trust us.I wonder how It would
go down if I just wandered into one of the dealers that had
never seen me before,and completly ignoring the salespeople proceeded
to "play with the 3000". The fact that the operating system is booting
off the drive until the roms are available also has to be taken into
consideration.
bill
PS you should have been there when steve had the 2500 an a kid was
putting "EVERYTHING" into the trash can.
|
| 3723.33 | 2500/030 vs 3000 | SALEM::LEIMBERGER | | Mon May 07 1990 08:18 | 24 |
| I plan to upgrade my 2000 to a 2500 so am not considering a
3000. At the present time I own over 50(well over)programs at least,
and this is not counting games. While many say that the programs
should be compatable if written correctly,I doubt many of the ones
I own would run on the 3000. I know a guy(petey) that had a program
that would not run on a 2000 because the system did not have fast
memory. Tim Shaw (works at Sanders) ran a couple of benchmark programs
on the 3000 at system eyes,but he has not got back to me with the
results yet.He is waiting for a 2500/030 to be delivered,and wanted
to run the same benchmarks on it for comparison.
I believe the 2500/030 will meet my demands,and I have seen ads
for 50mhz version 030 cards from 3rd party vendors.now if I buy a 3000
right off I drop from 5meg of ram down to 2meg.(not sure about 2058
card working).Then if I wanted to upgrade completly to 32 bit ram I
would not be able to afford it.So even if the 2058 card was able to
work I would be faced with a 16 bit ram bottleneck.The 32 bit ram,and
disk advantage of the 3000 has been available from GVP for well over a
year now. The ECS is still 16bit internally so it may be a close
call performance wise. How many meg of chip ram would a 2500/030
see if it had the ECS installed ? As it stands the 3000 is a great
addition to the amiga line an many will want to upgrade to it,but
I don't see it as a viable home machine today.
bill
|
| 3723.34 | at Omnitek... | HPSCAD::DMCARR | Asleep at the mouse | Mon May 07 1990 10:41 | 11 |
| Was up at Omnitek in Tewksbury on Saturday & got to see and play with
the 3000. The employees didn't seem to mind at all, of course I did ask
first before sitting down at the system. As previous notes state, WB 2.0
is indeed slick. Nice to see the CLI windows repaint with their contents
intact after resizing operations. Only got to play for 5 or 10 minutes as
I didn't want to wear out my welcome, but I'm impressed. I can understand
System Eye's concerns about letting people play around. There's a lot
of new stuff to learn.
-Dom
|
| 3723.35 | | DICKNS::MACDONALD | VAXELN - Realtime Software Pubs | Mon May 07 1990 14:01 | 3 |
| I went into System Eyes after work on Friday and played with the
3000 for about 30 minutes. No one minded. A sales person was available
to answer my questions. Very helpful!
|
| 3723.36 | | NSSG::SULLIVAN | Steven E. Sullivan | Thu May 10 1990 21:39 | 9 |
| RE:.33
Be careful about judging A3000 benchmarks. The current "kick-rom" is
eating up a good part of fast memory and it is likely the benchmark
program will run in chip memory unless more memory has been added.
Even in an A3000 the chip ram is slower than the fast ram.
-SES
.
|
| 3723.37 | | CSC32::D_WHITE | | Thu May 17 1990 20:10 | 11 |
| I was treated to a demo of the 3000 at Paragon in Colorado Springs, but
Peter insisted on doing all of the driving. (This was just before I
left for Santa Clara for 2 weeks.) While I was out in California, I
stopped into Skyles Electric Works. Considering their large ads in
Amiga Whirled, I figured that they would be a large operation. Boy,
was I suprised! Their showroom was only about 12x12 and was in
disarray. There was some kid hacking away on a 2000, and off in a
corner, not even powered up, was a 3000. I could have touched it and
no one would have been the wiser!
Dave
|
| 3723.38 | Skyles | DICKNS::MACDONALD | VAXELN - Realtime Software Pubs | Fri May 18 1990 14:59 | 2 |
| Skyles? Aren't they the folks that brought us the Basic Compiler
for the C64?
|
| 3723.39 | Thanks for the memories... (re. .38) | DNEAST::SEELEY_BOB | | Fri May 18 1990 16:03 | 4 |
| I remember when they offered hardware for the PET...... and that
was a long time ago. Their 32K memory expansion board looked good in
those days when only 8K came with the machines. Some of you can
probably remember the little KIM as well.
|
| 3723.40 | | ENOVAX::BARRETT | I'm still under construction | Fri May 18 1990 17:23 | 1 |
| I remember the ELF and the ALTAIR 680
|
| 3723.41 | VMS upgrade for Jupiter Ace ? | RUTILE::COX | It all comes ... from within ... | Tue May 22 1990 08:27 | 4 |
|
|