Conference hydra::amiga_v1

    Yes I'd rather like to know about this as well, looks like a good
    job... anybody know how it's done, if you need to be a Tefal Man
    to understand how ti works etc.?
    
    -Rog
    

    re:.1  what is a Tefal Man?
    
    re: the theory
    
    There was description of how that stuff works in the Atari ST usenet
    by David Small (maker of Spectre GCR MAC emulator for the ST).
    
    Basically it just syncs up the two drives and copies the signals.
    Nothing very fancy.  In theory, it should be able to make a backup
    of any disk.
    
    It remains to be seen how well that works out in practice, given
    the variations in drive mechanisms, media, and controlling software.
    
    -Dave

    Greg,
    
    The idea of copying a disk, bit for bit, to another drive has been
    around for a long time.  Basically, just as there is always a way to
    "break" a copy protection, there is also a way to "break" a copy
    program.  It is a game of cat and mouse that will never end.  In all my
    days in the Apple, Commodore and Amiga worlds, I have never seen a copy
    program that will copy everything forever.
    
    My attitude is, before I buy a program, I check to see if a
    non-protected version can be obtained for a reasonable price, or if
    not, that the protection is in the form of a code wheel or such, so tht
    I can back up the disk.  My main concern is that I want to be able to
    put any thing I buy onto my hard disk.  If a non-protected version
    cannot be obtained, then I don't buy it.  If enough people vote with
    their dollars, maybe we can cut down on some of this silly copy
    protection.  It doesn't discourage pirating anyway.
    
    Ken
     

    I purchased one and just received it.  I'm going to hold off on
    reviewing it though until I test it on another machine.  This device
    copies TO your external drive, and I've had problems in the past
    copying to my external drive.  
    
    It currently makes the fastest copies of normal Amigados floppies I've
    ever seen.  Roughly 50 seconds or less for all 80 tracks.  But it seems
    to have trouble with some non-standard formats.  I'll report more once
    I've tested it out with another system, since I believe this may be
    related to a problem with my external drive.
    
    -tl

    Sorry about that, in the UK we have a series of adverts on TV for
    Tefal (kitchen etc.) equipment, which features scientists in white
    coats with enormously enlarged foreheads, the implication being
    that they're unbelievably clever so their products are wonderful.
    It's become slang among the population (a bitter twisted section
    of the population mind you) to call very clever people who understand
    things (ie you lot out there) Tefal Men.
    
    I shudder at the thought of opening up the subject of copying/piracy
    etc. again, as I've never known anything in these circles to arouse
    so much emotion, but with the amount of games disks being sold at
    great expense by the big S/W houses that crash after a few playings,
    or leave the drive running with the head on the disk after loading
    (ie all the way through the game), you NEED to be able to make copies
    (especially when S/W companies aren't interested in replacing the
    faulty disks you send back).
    
    Anyway, I've been playing with computers for years, and I've never
    yet encountered one of these "pirates". I venture to suggest that
    the majority of people who buy Amigas/Ataris etc. are either children
    (or people like myself who would like to be children), who buy their
    games from shops, and wouldn't know where to find a pirate if they
    wanted one. I do know a guy who writes de-protecting packages for
    Amstrads (very good ones they are too), who informs me that the
    people who spend a lot of their time "cracking" these disks do it
    as much because they enjoy the challenge as for any other reason,
    and they certainly don't bother with buying the latest version of
    a disk copier etc. - that would defeat the object.
    
    That leaves the only people affected by the whole mess to be people
    like me who only want to have reliable S/W that works; I have to
    pay ridiculous prices for the disks, then ridiculous prices for
    the "hacking packages" as well.
    
    Oops, got me off on my favourite subject again. Sorry.
    
    -Rog
    

    I've been reading this topic with interest. Like Rog (.5) I would
    like to protect my investment in software which I have purchased
    for my enjoyment. I recently had a defective leisure disk 'Shadowgate'
    which was replaced by the manufacturer "Mindscape" free of charge.
    However it took many phone calls to, firstly track them down in the
    U.K.,secondly to get through the "mindless" response specialist
    to the Sales Manager who knew what to do.  Since then I am reluctant
    to play the game for fear of corruption yet again. How I would love
    a backup/use copy that I could play and play with confidence. 
    
    SubLogics Jet copies using AmigaDos and runs with no problem. Have
    I produced hundereds of copies and flooded the market or distributed
    to Tom, Dick & Harry?  NO OF COURSE I HAVENT. 
    
    	So now I have a dilemma. Do I buy Xcopy II or Synchro Express?
    The former sells in limited locations for �17 approx the latter
    is available through DATEL for �34.95.
    
    				Regards,
    					David
     

    
    thanks for the Telfal description, sounds like strange way to pitch
    kitchen stuff.  Almost like some other company pushing computers
    for the "Creative Mind" :=)
    
    re: the choice of backup methods
    1. If you want to try to run programs off a harddisk, you need to
       look for a backup program that will deprotect or crack the
       copy protection.  That Syncro thingie just makes a backup of
       your original floppy.
    2. the reviews from the ST world indicate that the Syncro technique
       does work quite good for making a backup of an original disk,
       and doesn't work so good on a copy of the original.
    
    The sad thing is that copy protection seems to be the area
    where most developers do not follow the programming rules, hence
    programs that only run on certain amigas, not all.  I just upgraded
    my 2000 to 1Meg Chip Ram, now Datastorm refuses to load.  It did
    the same thing after I upgraded the PALs in my 1000.
    
    -Dave
    

    re: .5  pirates
    
    Would that I didn't know any pirates. I live in a 5-adult household,
    most of us are related. Each of those adults has at least one computer
    (there is a computer-less child as well) and some have two. One
    is a pirate. He has several thousands of dollars worth of cracked
    copies of over-priced (his comment) software - not including those
    programs which are superceded versions. We have discussed his
    activities and he knows I disapprove, he has suggested that I had
    an overly strict religious upbringing. On another front, two of
    my darling nieces - the daughters of my "born-again" brother and
    his wife - have over a thousand dollars worth of pirated C=64 games.
    That's a LOT of games. Their father, who believes me to be next
    best thing to a pagan, wonders why I should care about such a petty
    thing.
    	Please don't anyone take this as an invitation to rat-hole on
    the pros and cons of piracy vs the cons of protection schemes. I
    don't know of anyone who likes the protection schemes - except maybe
    the guys who make a buck writing crackers - and I really don't want
    to hear that you are a pirate a &%^& the world if they can't take
    a joke. I just wanted to let Rog know that pirates are not just
    someone's paranoid fantasy, they are real and varied people.

    Back to the original question Gregg had.  I guess you will just have to
    buy it and find out.  That's the way it is with most software anyway. 
    Doubt if you are going to find a dealer that will let you try to copy
    his programs in the store to test it out!
    
    Sorry this note degenerated into a piracy discussion.  Just in case
    anyone out there was wondering, I have worked with Gregg for several
    years and I can guarantee that his use of any copy program will be
    legitimate.  
    
    By the way, I want to put my congradulations in print to Gregg for
    winning the Great Lakes District "Challenge of Excellence" award and a
    trip to Barbados.  It was an award long overdue, in my opinion.  Of
    course, had I not moved to Colorado CSC, I would have been going, but
    that's the breaks.
    
    Ken
    

    From the Tefal Man - "We have the technology, because we have the
    brains" - Sorry you think that a discussion of piracy is degenerate,
    no doubt it's been discussed a million times on here, but I'm sure
    there are other people like me who haven't been around that long.
    
    Interested to hear about all the household mini-pirates - sounds
    like Treasure Island, I stand corrected. Obviously I move in the
    wrong (right?) circles.
    
    Since yesterday, I've ordered a "Synchro Express". To use it (and
    to make best use of my X-Copy to best advantage apparently), I've
    also had to order a second floppy and a memory upgrade. Total cost
    (including the original X-Copy) is about �210. I could get about
    15 decent games for this much, so the financial justification for
    making copies is certainly not there... it's simply a question of
    stress-reduction. Anyway, as you say, the Synchro thingy doesn't
    make "cracked" copies for distribution purposes, and as far as I
    can tell neither does the X-Copy. In fact, it's extremely difficult
    to get the latter to make a copy of anything, except possibly itself.
    
    I'll report back on my findings when I get all this stuff. In the
    meantime, if anyone knows a "poke" or any other method of turning
    off my internal drive after it's loaded "Wizball", please speak
    up...
    
    -Rog
     

    I think that a device like the one being discussed would be the
    way to go if you want to backup the original.as mentioned in a previous
    note it won't put the program on your hard drive.So it looks like
    you probably need both,most likely more tahn one software copier
    to cover the bases.i have raw copy but haven't even bothered to
    send in for the last two updates.Most stuff I purchase is not copy
    protected so it's no big deal.The ocassional game does'nt concern
    me because I would probably live if I had to return it for a
    replacement disk.So far I have seen ad's for two of the device copiers.
    I expect these to be major sellers.Re: no pirates,the same day i
    got involved in the last discussion about this i saw a friend had
    taken Aldus Pagemaker home to copy.Of course this was only for casual
    use....... He seemed miffed when I told him I was suprized that
    he would steal software.We might have to rename this to SoftWar.
    								bill

    Well the device works as advertised.  I hooked it up to a friends A500
    to see if the problem with the Syncro Express or my external drive.  I
    guess my external drive is headed back to California Access for fixing
    (I confirmed that a normal AmigaDOS disk copy to it even fails.)
    
    It definitely handles long track copies because it sucessfully backed
    up Dragon's Lair without a hitch.  The documentation says that it is
    possible that some packages may not copy with certain combinations of
    internal/external drives and potential mismatches in drive speed. 
    Something along the lines of the fact that the copy protection
    mechanism could count on a track taking a certain amount of time to
    read, and that with drives of varying velocity, there is a potential
    for problems.  But that scheme also sounds like it would fail on some
    stock Amiga's with the distribution copy installed.
    
    Anyway, I tend to agree that it would be easier if the manufacturers
    would stop all this nonsense.  Its similar to this DAT nonsense that
    has held up the introduction of some great new technology.  As has been
    said before, if there is a will there is a way and the commercial
    pirate is always going to have a way.
    
    -tl

    
    Todd, not to spoil your joy about your new "toy" (since it seems to
    work as advertised), but all the speed the Synco gives you is worth
    very, very little when copying non-protected disks.
    I'd advise you to use always a copy program that features verify
    since all the speed in the world will not prevent your copy of Fish
    Disk #342 ;-) to be bad.
    I personally use TurboBackup (FF#139), since it even checks the
    gap at the start of a new track on the target disk for errors...
    
    Regards,
    
    <CB>

    Any body have the phone number for the Synchro copier handy?
    
    Do they accept plastic money?
    
    Thanks.

    The people I got mine from are Datel Electronics on 0782-744707.
    Yes, they take plastic. Nothing it can't copy so far...
    
    -Rog
    

    
I would like to warn everybody interrested in this Synchro CopierII.
Their advertising is a bunch of lies.

I bought one when a (Not even mine) kid "wiped" a $50.00 game.
And also another one left her finger prints on disk 4
of Dragon's lair. Although I succeeded to clean the finger print
off the floppy.

I received it and in "normal" mode it works OK as if there were
no copier at all.

If you want to copy stuff like Dragon's lair, you need to switch
to "synchro mode".   When in that mode the floppy DO NOT write
at all.  I tried 2 Amigas, one 1000 and a 2000.  Also 2 different
external drives were tested.  The SAME data that was on the floppy
before is still there after having "synchroed" some other data on it.

I opened the "synchro" and there is one chip in there with the
number on the chip "erased".  I figured out that it is a SN74367
real standard TTL (TI)  chip.,  So much for the ad that mentions
it is a "custom" chip. Note that it is a surface mount chip.
It can be bought at any chip retailer for $0.50 or less.
The ad also mentions it uses TTL data from the printer/parallel 
port.  That is not true either, it plugs in the drive bus.

But actualy, when in "synchro mode" they "flip" 3 signals.
ReadData goes to Write data on the external drive.
Sel3B goes to Write enable "   "    "        "
and last, the external signal Index goes to CHG in the Amiga.

When the switch is in normal, all signal are passed like they
should (1 to 1).

I will figure why it doesn't work, knowing that the "chip"
is good, I suspect the software.

I know someone mentioned it works in a previous note,
can this person tell me if it's the Synchro copierII
with the software version 1.0? that he(she) was talking about.
Or is there a "tricky" way to use it?

I will try few more hours to figure out why, but I
strongly believe that they will get back that piece of...

I am just hoping to get my money back, being in Canada, I
don't have much legal power though.

I have been had one more time, the least I can do is warn you...

P.S. in "normal" copy it is NOT any faster than Nib V1.0
     And since you have to re-boot to run that software, it
     is actually slower than Nib that can run from a HardDisk.

P.P.S. I paid $70.00, and 2 days after I figured out that 
       Able sells it for $50.00, snif...

Vince.
    

    I have to reply to my previous -.1 note.
    
    I "finaly" got on the phone with them, after trying many times.
    
    They told me that they shiped me the wrong version.  My version
    should have a sticker A2000 on it.
    
    Because they made the error, they told me I can keep the "A500/A1000"
    version.   Like I said my friend tried it on his A1000 and it didn't
    work either...  The software is the same.
    
    Might still be worth it after all.
    
    
    
    

To pursue the Syncro express saga,  I figured out what is different 
about the 2 Amiga models they sell.
Instead of waiting for my A2000 model...
    
    
External drive bus differences
A500/A1000     A2000
_________     _______
Sel1B    is   Sel2B
Sel2B    is   Sel3B
Sel3B    is   Not used.

I modified 2 DB25 in DB23 connectors, wired all pins one to one 
exept the 3 modifications mentioned previously and it works...
(Syncro mode only, of course) No chip, no switch, just wires.

Expect a few restrictions:
  1) it didn't backed up Hybris, unknown reason.
  2) It did Dragon's lair only on HD diskettes (1.4 Mb).
     On 2 sided, double density disks, it works but gives
     "diskette error" messages and bomb out, every 2 to 6
     "frames".  (Average every 1 to 3 diskettes while playing)
     i.e: I never got to the 4th diskette.

So my question is: Did anybody succeeded in copying Dragon's lair
                   on "normal" diskettes? HD are damn expensive.
	 	   Did anybody backed up Hybris? if so, how did
                   you do it?.   I am scare to go beyond the 82
                   tracks limit.  Do I have to go any higher?

My DF0: is a genuine Commodore, but my external is a modified
IBM 760KB drive. I am not sure it can go over 82 cylinders.

It also copied some other games that I have already backed up
with Nib.
    
    Vince.

    Re .18
    
    There are differnces in the drive bus between a 2000 and a 500?
    I've never heard that before. Why?
    
    Does this mean that an external drive purchaesed off the shelf wouldn't
    work on a 2000 (plugged into the external drive port)?
                      
    
    Colin
    

    Yes they are different, but like mentioned before, Sel1B is replaced
    by Sel2B (drive select signals).  You cannot have DF1 external on a 
    A2000.  The signal is just not there, but surely jest you can get
    DF2 and DF3.  This is the only difference, and it doesn't make the
    external drive incompatible, just the external bus.
    
    The way C= make auto-drive number select (no jumper) is with a little
    circuit that gets, let say Sel1B and serialy switch the signal to
    Sel2B on its out port.  It makes it simpler to add-on drives.  
    It is a little more complicated than that, but you get the basics
    right?
    
    Anyway, this does not make the external drives incompatible, but
    they had to get the external bus slightly different.
    
    Vince,

    Latest update - there are now, it would appear, several disks which
    this machine will not copy, or else corrupts while doing so. For
    example, screens or soundtracks will be corrupted, the game will
    crash at certain points etc. Maybe I was over-hasty in my unreserved
    recommendation.
    
    Mind you, it could be worse, my X-Copy (V1.3) won't even copy itself...
    
    -Rog
    
    PS the Synchro Express is V1.3 also.