Conference hydra::amiga_v1

    The DeskJet is reputed to be as reliable as the best laser printers
    and no more expensive to run by the page.  There was some comment
    in a notes file about the cost of Font carts, perhaps it was the
    Mac conf, which suggested that you had to spend half as much on
    extra carts as you spent for the printer in order to achieve reasonable
    flexibility.  If the built-ins do all you need then this will not
    be a problem, but there are few built-ins.

I've had a DJ+ for 6 months and its given me no problems. Its a lot cheaper to
run than a lazer although I think the output from an HP LazerJet is better than
the DeskJet.

The + also comes with some fonts built in so you may not need any extra font
cartridges (which as the previous note says are relatively expensive).

N.B. Which ever way you go (lazer or ink jet) to get the best results you need
software which can drive them. 

        The plain DJ included fonts do not have a script font capability
        and thus at least one font cartridge must be purchased if this is
        necessary.
        
        One very important thing to remember is that the ink used for the
        DJ is water soluble, even after it has dried.  It will literally
        run off the page.  It is important to make sure that no water
        gets on the paper.  Also, due to this restriction, the DJ may not
        be a suitable printer for final printing.
        
        Finally, a comparsion done last year showed that the DJ had a
        higher cost per page than a Laser copier did.  But the initial
        purchase price was significantly lower.
        
        The DJ is a great printer, the DJ+ is even better.  But you do
        need to understand what you are out to accomplish, before you
        make the purchase.
        
        Bob

Take a look at the HP LaserJet IIP.  They are selling for
$945 at some places.

John

    Yes, this is a discussion dear to my heart as well. The Deskjet+,
    as you say, is an impressive inkjet at 300 dpi. HP accessories are
    indeed horrendously expensive (but then, the basic printers are
    cheap). You can pick up a Laserjet for about �1350 here, but the
    Postscript upgrade card costs about �1500! Compare this with a total
    cost of around �2000 for an LN03R Postscript job (under the employee
    purchase scheme). The ink-tank and head are all one piece, when
    it runs out of ink you just throw away the head and everything -
    cost of �14 for a replacement. I'd agree that running cost is higher
    than with a laser, but then the engine doesn't explode after 300,000
    pages like some lasers appear to... what I want to know is, when
    are HP going to make the Paintjet (sorry, LJ250) do 300 dpi (at
    least when printing black-only)? They obviously have the technology
    - that would really be something!
    
    PS If I get a Deskjet+, presumably graphics packages will look "toothy"
    on diagonal lines, curves etc. as with a dot-matrix? Am I correct
    in thinking that the only way to avoid this effect is to use
    Postscript?
    
    -Roger
     

    re: .5
    > PS If I get a Deskjet+, presumably graphics packages will look "toothy"
    > on diagonal lines, curves etc. as with a dot-matrix? Am I correct
    > in thinking that the only way to avoid this effect is to use
    > Postscript?
    
    Well, as I understand it, the smoothing options available in 1.3
    printer drivers is supposed to take care of that...
    

    Really... yet again this shows up my lack of comprehension in this
    area. Does this mean that he who wishes to play around with DTP
    can (a) prepare toothless graphics using some sort of combination
    of a graphics package and a Workbench 1.3 option to do the graphics,
    his favourite WP package to prepare the text, and then simply use
    the DTP package to merge the two and do all the formatting, flowing
    text around pictures etc., AND THEN print it all out using fonts
    available from the WP or graphics package without needing Postscript???
    
    You're now regretting that you raised this subject again aren't
    you...
    
    -Rog
    
    PS I have been told that ink-jet printers used a jet of molten plastic
    rather than ink, but you say it's water-soluble... well I'm going
    to find out, by pouring water on a sample printout tonight to see
    what happens. Comparison will be with a printout from an LN03. Watch
    this space...
    

    Well here's the results of my aqueous testing on the HP Deskjet
    (if there's anybody out there, there doesn't seem to be for the
    last few days, where's the party???). This is re. 3182.7 by the
    way.
    
    I applied the wet finger test to four week old printouts from the
    above, a dot matrix, and an LN03. You certainly were right about
    the Deskjet, TOTALLY water-soluble. Slight smearing on the dot-matrix,
    none at all on the laser.
    
    -Rog
     

    So much for the "melted plastic" theory. Then, again, if a printout
    gets seriously wet it doesn't often matter if the "ink" is water
    soluble or not. But the results were instructive, thanks.

    
    Thanks for the replies, especially .3 (Bob Sanders) re. ink smearing. 
    That would be totally unacceptable.
    
    I'm going to check out the HP LaserJetIIP.  I've been seeing it
    advertised locally for under $1K.  
    
    Ed.

    My information is that the only serious differences between the
    2P and the Plus are that the former won't print Landscape, nor is
    it upgradable to Postscript compatibility.
    

RE:  <<< Note 3182.11 by BRILLO::FENTON_R "Theres no hair on a seagulls face" >>>

>    My information is that the only serious differences between the
>    2P and the Plus are that the former won't print Landscape, nor is
>    it upgradable to Postscript compatibility.
    
The 2P does print landscape.  PostScript is supposed to become available
in early '90.

I believe that firm/software wise the 2P is more capable than the Plus.
I think that it has more built in fonts for example.

The major limitation of the 2P is it's small paper magazine.  It only
holds about 50 sheets so the 2P is useless as a shared printer unless
you buy an optional paper cartridge (big bucks).  As a printer for
one person it works just fine.  (Design by marketing).

John

    I hope I'm not getting confused. I went to my friendly neighbourhood
    printer shop, and asked to see the HP Laserjet & Deskjet models.
    For the former, I was shown three models - maybe I've got the numbers
    wrong, but in ascending order of cost, the cheapest one definitely
    couldn't do landscape or be upgraded to PS. Three possibilities
    - (1) the salesman didn't know what he was talking about (as a salesman
    myself I would go for this option); (2) I got the model numbers
    wrong (also quite likely); (3) there's been changes. If you definitely
    know the answers, a short summary would be much appreciated. One
    thing I am confident about though, if it becomes PS compatible,
    you can bet the upgrade will cost a lot more than the printer. Upgrade
    for the other Laserjet costs �1500 in the UK, as against about �1400
    for the actual printer.
    
    -Rog
    
    PS the model I was talking about did indeed have a smaller magazine.
    

        There is a solution to the water soluble ink.  That is to use a
        "fixative."
        
        This is a clear spray used in graphics art which creates a
        plastic coating on the paper which protects it from moisture,
        dirt, smudges, etc.  It is highly useful for both inkjet and
        Laser pages.
        
        It can be obtained from an art or drafting supply store for about
        $5.00.  You can get one or the other -
        
                . Sprayway #204 matte fixative
                . Chartpak Clear Spray
        
        The above was from the review of HP's DeskJet Plus by Jim Wallace
        in the December 1989 issue of Current Notes.
        
        Mr. Wallace did the original review of the DeckJet about a year
        ago and it has served him well - he ended up making over $500 per
        week doing "camera ready" printouts for offset printing.  So he
        is still making his living using this printer (and his Atari).
        
        On the cost of ink cartridges, he only uses HP cartridges, which
        run about $15 each.  He states that -
        
                . Nothing looks better than the original HP black ink.
                . He normally gets back about $1,500 per cartridge.
        
        He also suggests that one use "laser labels" as they are thinner
        and will wrap around the platen.  But that the DeskJet is not
        recommended for heavy lable printing use.  Rather he suggests
        that one makes an original on paper on the DeskJet and use a
        photcopy machine to do the transfer to the actual labels.
        
        From his article, he has had not problems (read - out of memory
        errors) with his Mega 2 (2 mB memory) even with a 650k Calamus
        files that included lots scanned images and Compugraphic fonts.
        
        So if you do have a DeskJet, it would seem that 2 mB mf memory,
        plus what the Amiga OS needs would be a wise choice.
        
        Bob

I'm curious about some bits and pieces I've read lately about color
printing on the HP Deskjet 500 (the latest deskjet with permanent ink?).
I know I've seen ads for color ink and I read something about making
four-pass prints using the Cyan Magenta Yellow Black separations approach.

Has anybody done this or seen this done? Does this make the deskjet
viable as a color printer?  That is:
- Can you easily print the same sheet four times
- Is software to separate into CMYB readily available/easy to use?
- How would this compare to the paint jet, which has lower resolution but
  is a real color printer?

Comments?

Dave