Conference hydra::amiga_v1

    I think that there are two seperate points to raise here;
    
    The first is the legality, ethics, and morals behind pirated S/W. This
    has been debated both in this notesfile and on usenet and could
    probably fill a whole conference on that subject alone.
    
    The second point is around discretion, I'm sure that you're probably
    not far wrong when you imply that nearly everyone either has or has had
    an illegal copy of something or other at some time, but I get very
    jittery when I see these things discussed openly in notesfiles.
    The dead giveaway is asking questions which obviously show that
    you don't have the manual. Remember that you work for a company
    which gains a substantial portion of it's revenue from S/W sales
    and can be impacted by illegal S/W copying as much as any small
    S/W house writing for the Amiga.
    
    		Sorry if you took the flame personally but.....
    
    				Alan T.

    I AGREE WITH YOU !!!
    
    Some days ago i "borrowed" some ILLEGAL copies of AFTERBURNER, BLOOD
    MONEY and a lot of other arcade-like games.
    After 2 hours i erased 90 % of the floppies. Then i played the
    remaining 10 % again and some days later i BUYED  HYBRIS, SILENT
    SERVICE, INTERCEPTOR and SIDEWINDER.
    So i saved A LOT of money (in Germany an actual game cost 60 - 100
    DM = $25 - $45) for games which are not WORTH this price.
    
    The only Program i buyed without such a "test-phase" is FALCON F-16
    I HAVE  O N L Y  trouble with that piece of "...(indexed)"
    [copy-protection, no HD-supprt...]
    

    Ralf
    ====

    I am also troubled by the idea of having illegal copies of software,
    even if I am only using them for evaluation purposes.  I make my
    living from writing software for Digital, so if software becomes
    freely available, I lose my livelihood.
    
    On the other hand, some software is not worth its price, and shouldn't
    be bought.
    
    The traditional solution to this problem is reviews.  Read a magazine
    you trust (one not filled with advertisements for the products they are
    reviewing) or find friends that already have the software.  I haven't
    yet found a trustworthy magazine, and my tastes aren't always the same
    as the other people in this conference, so the traditional solution
    doesn't always work for me.
    
    Therefore, I review software in the store.  At System Eyes in Nashua,
    New Hampshire, they will let me read the manual and try out the
    software on their demo machines (including an A2500) to see if I like
    it.  Their prices are somewhat higher than mail-order, but the service
    of letting you try before you buy makes the higher price worthwhile.
    
    I realize that not everyone is close to a dealer, so this solution
    won't work for everyone.
        John Sauter

    Anybody ever play Dr. Dooms revenge???? THat game is worst than
    some stuff I programmed in BASIC.
    
    mat
    

    I'll repeat what I said once before....
    
    When software developers/marketers start charging a reasonable price
    for their software the pirating problem will disappear!
    
    Case history: A retailer My father knows purchased a whole pile
    of games for the Amiga - sold by him at $25NZ each - thats about $15US
    instead of $100NZ each which is a common common price to pay here...
    
    He could NOT keep up with demand!
    
    I and others like me would not object to paying $25 for a reasonable
    game (granted - applications etc deserve a much higher price tag
    - I am talking entertainment software here...) but $100 for a game
    that you can't try before buying is not expensive - it is EXTORTION!

    Solution: Developers and users must reach a compromise. Developers
    agree to produce a good-quality product at a reasonable price and
    users comit to legally purchasing said product and refusing to use
    copies other than those legally allowed under license agreements...
    

    I have turned down several offers to trade software since I have
    had my Amiga,so no doubt piriacy exists.However if you know someone
    well enough to get a copy then you know them wll enough to try the
    program,without needing a copy.How much do you need to see before
    you know if you like a program,especially games.There is no
    justification for stealing software.In regards to .0 I have no
    unregistered copies of software in my home.There was an instance
    once where a game came over from europe,and was posted.It turned
    out that it was no public domain.I deleated it the day I heard that
    it was not PD.,and I really liked it.If you are of the opinion that
    everyone has illegale software,then you must mean everyone YOU know
    has it.I agree the problem of bad software exist,but then if you
    obtain a copy of software,and can't figure out how to use it you
    would not be in a posistion to give it an evaluation anyway.As for
    having this type of discussion on the net,I feel it is a valid topic.
    Everyone should be sensitive to this topic.Also it should be stated
    that many license agreements state that you may use the software
    on only a system at a time.If I give you my ONLY copy,and set of
    documentation to use for a weekend,and it is returned without making
    a copy have i broken any laws? As for legality this is not my
    concern(three speeding tickets in a month)I base my opinion on how
    I feel ethicly.i also feel if the demos were available the problem
    would continue just as other problems in society seem to.
    							
    							bill

    Recently I overheard a conversation that went this way."I think
    she should but a I** compatible because I have tons of software".That
    was a mother talking about her daughter to a dealer.It struck me
    as funny because I could not imagine this  girl booting up her system 
    to play mom's accounting,and business packages.Then I realized how sad 
    a situation it was.This same mother would probably have hit the
    roof if her daughter had taken a stick of gum without paying for it.
    							bill

    I've had occasion several times recently to express my opinion on
    software piracy.  Very simply put, it's stealing.  The people who
    create and publish software are fully entitled to be paid for their
    work.  The facts that OTHERS steal software or that SOME software is
    overpriced are NOT adequate justifications for software theft.

The key to solving the problem is, and as it was pointed out this isn't an
option for everyone, a good dealer.  I go to the Memory Location (MA) and
there they give honest opinions even if something is bad (more than once I've
asked "How is this?" and been told its not that good from the people who
would have benefitted from a sale if they lied or claimed ignorance).

Also, TML allows you (as does System Eyes?? in Nashua) to try the software out
first.  

As for .0 I will admit that I had quite a piracy going when I lived in C64
land but now I pretty much buy everything I need.  A scrounging of my disk
collection might find an old, non-working copy of _Marble Madness_ but all
in all, I'm clean.

Finally, my last thought is not to be too quick to judge.  I have some software
in original disk form bought second hand or traded off from a friend.  Many
of these (mostly games) DO NOT HAVE MANUALS as they have been lost over time
(some of us are not that organized).  So don't assume that NO MANUAL = PIRATE.

George

    What happens in my case, is that I will try the pirate copy, and if it
    is worth buying, I will.  A few examples:
    DpaintIII, Quarterback, Diskmaster, Deluxe video, CED
    
    BUT, I bought CLImate from the ads, and it is garbage, it even GURUs. 
    So it sits in my disk file, and I can't even unload it to anyone,
    because I would be the screwer instead of the screwee!
    
    I trashed JDK PROvideo+, because it won't multitask and will not
    support multinational characters.  I did that to quite a few packages
    too, after all you can't become good at using a program unless you use
    it and just keeping stuff for the sake of keeping it has lost it's
    appeal to me (I did that with my ROBIN).
    
    Jean
    
    PS I just bought ELAN performer, and it has lived up to it's billings
    and the reviews in the mags.