Conference hydra::amiga_v1

I saw the commercial too last night, after Monday Night Football - about 11:15.
I wasn't impressed. It was too 'busy'. All these people crowding into the room.
It didn't seem to concentrate on the Amiga too much. If I hadn't been real
interested in this commercial, I'm not sure I would have remembered the name
Amiga after it was over. I think Commedore wiil have to show this commercial
a lot for it to have any affect.

tom

    
    Sounds like you saw a different one than I did Tom... The one I saw had
    the young kid levitating his parent's home.
    
    Ed. 

I stayed up until the beginning of the fourth quarter to see the ad.  Not only
did I miss a great finish to the game, I missed the commercial too!

Mike

    Why doesn't someone explain the commercial to us poor folk who missed
    it?

The ad I saw was the one with all the celebrities in it. When I first read about
it on Usenet, I thought each celebrity would be in a different ad. But this one
had them all at once. First 3 astronauts came to the door and asked for Stevie,
then Little Richard, then the Pointer Sisters, and last Tip O'Neil. I think
there were some more but I can't remember who. Anyway they all ended up in
Stevie's room. Stevie was sitting at the Amiga. They showed some graphics.
First some space station stuff for the astronauts and then some music software
I think. I really can't remember much more. It all happened so fast. I do
remember Tip O'neil standing there with a chicken leg in his hand that he got
from Stevie's mother. I don't think the Amiga said anything in this ad.

tom

    I didn't see that ad, but the Memory Location was playing a promotional
    video when I was there Saturday.  I saw an nice interview with B.B.King
    who talked about making music, and how much of an asset the Amiga is.
    He said that he used PC's at one point, but that they could only do
    one thing at a time.  When he saw the Amiga, he liked it so much,
    he "took it right home."  You could see that he really enjoyed the
    Amiga a great deal and that he wasn't reading off cue cards, but was
    'telling it like it is.'  Quite good.
    
    I would like to see ad's like this, with 'real' people explaining how 
    they use it.  There were also some nice glossy's (perhaps the x-page
    pullouts from the magazines) with real-life scenarios of people who
    have used the Amiga to really further themselves (career or
    personally).  The ads shouldn't just focus on musicians and artists,
    but on designers, engineers, and business people, too.
    
    ~Steve

    While half noting/half watch-listening the Bruins/Kings Hockey game, I
    caught the "celebrities" version a few minutes ago (on WSBK, Boston
    Ma.) Perhaps I'm a little twisted, but I enjoyed it a lot. Granted it
    was too short and "busy" but, to me, a commercial that grabs your
    attention and leaves some kind of "mental residue" can do a lot for a
    company/product. I believe it had the right mixture of humor and
    "cutsie" to make you want to watch it again instead of mentally
    filtering it out. A lot of products have slick advertising that I enjoy
    watching (sick, I know) and it probably has some subliminal effect on
    me when I'm cruising the grocery aisles searching for chocolate-covered
    anythings that contain oat bran, humming those catchy Muzak tunes. I
    think it does an effective job on the audience that I believe Commodore
    is shooting for, that elusive "Home" Computer user. Anyways, I'm just
    glad to see Commodore is advertising period. Sorry, I'm done babbling
    now.

    Petey

    P.s. Isn't Tip getting a hefty enough pension? That guy is showing up
         everywhere!

    
    Not to do with commercials.
    But a note to .7 "CRISTA::CAPRICCIO" spanked your WANK?
    
    I don't know where you are from,but that sounds obscene in English.
    In England the colloquial meaning of a WANK is male masturbation.
    
    Just thought I'd let you know in case you consider changing your
    personal header.
    
    Now to do with commercials...
    
    In the UK Commodore ran a TV Ad that was withdrawn due to misleading
    potential customers. 
    
    It showed a fabulous flight simulation of a jet flying through rolling
    hills that even the Amiga would have found difficult to produce.
     Some true amiga graphics were superimposed on this but it was still
    a bit dodgy.
    	Apparently customers had asked to have the program demonstrated
    in local stores only to be rather disappointed. I don't know why
    Commodore did this, as the Amiga is amazing enough as it stands.
    Raising super-expectations in this way was an obvious and needless
    mistake ??
    
    Regards, Mark.

I suspect that Commodore wants people to remember the name of the
computer and some of its capabilities. Tough to really demo a machine
like the Amiga in a 30 second slot. But, consider the other computer
companies that use celebs for their commercials. Commodore merely one
upped them all by having a dozen or more well known celebs in their
commercials. I thought the Tip O'Neill appearance was great!

    So who saw Harold Copperman last night?  I enjoyed his spiel, and
    think that Commodore is really heading in the right direction.
    He talked about Commodore having the broadest micro-computer
    division of any computer company, of having 30 years in the 
    business and still being a 1 billion dollar a year business.
    
    He talked about a 5 point plan (I didn't take notes, so..)
    that involved Improving Commodores image, Building a competent 
    infrastructure at Commodore and of legit dealers, Customer 
    Satisfaction, Service, Advertising, Marketing, Improved Software/hardware 
    packaging, getting into the education, commercial and government
    marketplace.
    
    It's obvious that he's serious about the plan, and that the
    Amiga will definitely be a (maybe 'the') major area of focus.
    
    He answered a bunch of questions, and seemed genuinely interested
    in people's gripes/suggestions.  He also showed the 4 new commercials,
    and a 'making of the commercials' video.
    
    ~Steve
    <commercial spoiler>
    
    The first one has been described.  There is also another one much
    like it.  Another has 'Stevie' and his friends intercepting
    an awards broadcast and then sending their own to the girls next
    door in order to impress them.  The last shows 'Stevie' working
    on a 3-d model of his house, then he accidently levitates the
    home, scaring his parents and neighbors. 
    
    They were designed to leave the viewer wanting to see more.
    They are quite detailed and rather hectic.  I liked them all.
    They will air heavily on Mtv, in order to appeal to all the
    little 'Stevies' out there.  I had hoped for a commercial with
    a more 'professional' appeal, but no.  Perhaps Stevie will someday
    show his Mom/Dad how to do some Desktop Publishing, Accounting,
    etc.
    
    The director did say that all the music/video/etc was done on
    the Amiga.  He was very impressed, and thought that the commercials
    realistically showed off the Amiga's capabilities. ( Except for
    levitating the house, and he said that one day that might 
    be possible. :^)

Re: .6

>    I would like to see ad's like this, with 'real' people explaining how 
>    they use it.  There were also some nice glossy's (perhaps the x-page
>    pullouts from the magazines) with real-life scenarios of people who
>    have used the Amiga to really further themselves (career or
>    personally).  The ads shouldn't just focus on musicians and artists,
>    but on designers, engineers, and business people, too.

The Amiga TV commercials are a bit "fluffy," but the upcoming print
ads are supposed to present a more professional image and to provide
real information about the capabilities of the machine.

The ads, scheduled to run soon in the new weeklies, are seven pages
long (yep, seven pages as a block!).  One page of the ad will have
a professional using an Amiga to accomplish a task, and the next page
will show an amateur using an Amiga to do something similar.
The professionals and amateurs are real people (someone posted
a usenet message that his wife was one of the people in the
ads).

    
    I too was there.  I was also at the Max Toy & Irving Gould BCS meeting
    long ago.  Interesting contrast is styles & background.  Harry sounded
    like his battle plan is to break into the big times by using the
    same techniques Apple did with the Mac:
    
    1. focus on niche markets and do a great job in those niches
    2. advertise a lot, do good marketing
    3. good customer and developer support
    
    The problem is that the pc market has changed greatly from the time
    Apple did that.  He didn't seem concerned about the impact of the
    pc clone market other than saying that they were going to avoid
    head-to-head competition with ibmpcs and macs.  I'm concerned that
    his background with Apple has affected his view of the world - at
    least Max seemed to understand that the pc clone market was becoming
    a serious threat in those niche markets.
    
    On the other hand, his ideas might work - look how many Amigas have
    been sold without CBM doing heavy marketing, that may be exactly
    what is needed to get the computer press to become aware of it.
    But he's going to have to sell a lot of Amigas to pay for that.
    
    He also seemed to want to promote the Commodore name, mentioned
    that he had met people that didn't even realize that the Amiga was
    made by Commodore.  Said the Commodore name was very popular in
    Europe, but in the US the reaction was that Commodore was just
    a company that sold the Amiga, pc clones, and hmmmmm.  They lost
    big in the US as the market share for the C64/C128 declined.
    
    -Dave
    

Re: .8
    
>   I don't know where you are from,but that sounds obscene in English.
>   In England the colloquial meaning of a WANK is male masturbation.

    Have you spanked your male masturbation? Seriously, sorry if I offended
    anyone (I seem to say that a lot), but I was merely referring to the
    WANK (Worms Against Nuclear Killers) worm perusing the EasyNet (see VTX
    SECINFO for details, if available). I admit, I had a perverted grin
    when I typed it in, but I did so via /TEMP, so am I forgiven?
    Perhaps I should stick to just reading this conference...Gad, us
    non-professionals are everywhere!

    Apologies,

    Petey
    
    P.s. I'm from *New* England, does that count for anything? 8*)

    Could one of the people who saw Harry Copperman enter a more detailed
    report?  It would seem to be at least as related to the base note
    as some of the other replies here.   :-)
    
    Even though I posted the announcement, I wasn't able to attend.
    *Sigh*  Some more detailed reporting might help us see the big picture
    and relieve some of the frustration we've had being forced to watch
    'Entertainment Tonight' night after night. :-)

    I'll try to enter some information, as I remember it.  I too had
    to sit through 2 nights of 'ET' and I've sworn never to watch it again!
    
    Copperman said that they are really going to go after the education
    markets.  At one time Commodore had a 70% share of the grade/high
    school education market, but quickly lost it to Apple (II's).  Now
    that Apple is pushing the Macs to schools, the schools will (hopefully)
    open their eyes and see what else is out there.  The basic Mac's
    won't appeal to kids as much as an Amiga, due to lack of color, etc.
    And (obviously) the Amiga has a much better price/performance than
    the Mac.
    
    The Amiga is also non-existent at the collegiate level, except for
    a few art departments, video courses, etc.  They really want to hit
    that market also.  ( It should appeal to college students )
    
    One thing that they will have to re-consider is the pricing strategy.
    As with anything, what's the best price for a given product?  The
    Amiga might seem to 'cheap', and therefore lead people to believe 
    that it is inferior to PC's, Macs.  It's already clear that
    mailordering Amiga's is a big no-no with Commodore, so that gives a
    slight price increase. I think we will see a gradual price increase,
    to give the Amiga more credibility.  This will also allow Commodore
    to give 'discounts' to the school systems.
    
    The government arena will be a tough one. (But) The government is 
    always looking at contracts that have the best price/performance.
    When the A2500UX comes out, it should be able to play in that market.
    (With an ethernet card, and X-Windows especially)  Copperman said that
    he's got a 12 person sales/marketing group set up in Washington DC,
    with the express purpose of getting into the government.  He also
    said that, this group was larger than Commodore's entire marketing group
    before he joined.  Was he joking?  Will the Amiga need an Ada compiler
    before it is seen in the Pentagon?  Will Dan Quayle be seen in the next
    Amiga commercial, thereby damning it for eternity? (my comments :^)
    
    With so much emphasis on 'up-scaling' the Amiga/Commodore image,
    and the lack of mail order, and Commodore putting it's foot down on
    the 3rd party hardware companies, will the average consumer be 
    priced out of owning an Amiga, much like what has happened with the
    Mac? (more comments)  Do we want to see the average software price
    increase, as Copperman hinted also?  (I don't)
    
    Copperman seemed very interested in what could be done to increase
    customer satisfaction.  He asked people what they would improve and
    took notes.  I told him (afterwards) that there was a definite need
    for professional Commodore representation at the large computer shows.
    The NE computer show last weekend was a prime example.  The only
    mildly interesting stuff was for the Mac's.  I think a few A2500's
    running some DP, Video, graphics, etc, could have made a real 
    impression on the people who were getting all excited over 286/386
    technology.  He said that there are more than 1 show/day in the US and 
    it is very expensive to go to all of them.  It's expensive not to.
    
    I also told him that I've seen a need for a new Amiga to fill the 
    500 - 2000 gap.  Maybe I'm wrong, but I know several people who 
    want/need a detachable keyboard, video slot, coprocessor slot, and
    maybe 2-3 expansion slots.  They don't ever want a bridgeboard (me too!)
    However, the manufacturing cost of this unit would probably be 
    comparable to the 2000 anyways, so...
    
    Copperman said that they have some improved packaging with the
    Amigas, that include a 'how to use' on diskette.  It should help
    the average owner to overcome some of the initial hurdles in
    owning a new computer.  This is the mouse, this is a menu, etc.
    
    He was quite funny at times and said that at Apple, it was
    common knowledge that you _can't_ multitask on a 68000.  The Amiga
    does quite nicely on a 68000 w/512kB.  He also said that when IBM
    builds a machine equivilent to an Amiga, it will require 10M, and
    when you turn it on, the lights will dim in Boston.
    
    ~Steve - perhaps more later, as mind permits.

>    Copperman said that they have some improved packaging with the
>    Amigas, that include a 'how to use' on diskette.  It should help
>    the average owner to overcome some of the initial hurdles in
>    owning a new computer.  This is the mouse, this is a menu, etc.

When I bought my 1000 (several years ago) it came with a disk 
based basic training course like you describe.  Much of it was 
too 'cute' in it's design, but it did the trick.  Apple has 
similar programs for the Mac.  I think they used them with their 
"Testdrive a Mac" program.

Randy

    The Amiga has already been in the Pentagon; ione was stolen from the
    SDI (star wars) office right under the escalator I think.  Right after
    that I couldn't even get into the mall.
    Well actually that was because of kadafi threats.
    I think
    Tom

Re: .15

>    One thing that they will have to re-consider is the pricing strategy.

He did indicate that the prices of *new* products would be carefully
considered.  I don't expect the prices of the current Amiga to change
much, but I do think that the Amiga 3000 just went up $1000 in price.

Quote: "We've never lost an Amiga sale [to a professional] because of
the price was too high."

>    [A price increase] will also allow Commodore to give 'discounts'
>    to the school systems.

Someone asked him if Apple's policy of having unjustifiably high list
prices was required in order to be able to offer huge discounts to
education.  Copperman stated that education didn't require that you
sell to them for 60% off, but simply that you give them your best
price.  A Commodore 30% discount is as good as Apple's huge discount.

>    It's already clear that mailordering Amiga's is a big no-no with
>    Commodore,

Copperman said that Commodore was dried up the supply of Amiga's
going to the mail order firms.  After they sell their inventory
of systems, mail order Amigas will be a thing of the past.

At one point Copperman said one of the Amiga magazines came to him
and asked for some assistance.  Copperman told them as long as they
ran ads for gray market (mail order) Amigas, they'd get no help from
Commodore.  (Copperman didn't mention it, but one of the mailorder houses
has been getting all of its Amigas from bankrupt dealers.  The folks
then sell the machines at a price that no dealer can compete with.
And since these guys were never an authorized Amiga dealer, none of
their machines have a warranty!)


>    Will the Amiga need an Ada compiler before it is seen in the Pentagon?

Some guy claimed that in the audience.  He was wrong.  Ada is mandated
for "mission critical or embedded systems."  As long as you are "just"
using the machine to write reports, calculate spreadsheets, desktop
publish, or do desktop presentations, you don't need Ada.


>    Will Dan Quayle be seen in the next Amiga commercial, thereby
>    damning it for eternity? (my comments :^)

Possible :-).


>    ...Commodore putting it's foot down on the 3rd party hardware companies

He wasn't referring to 3rd party developers of expansion products.  He
was wondering if Commodore should continue its practice of selling
Amiga 500 motherboards to companies who put them in video kiosks,
video games, etc.  He was wondering out loud at that point.  One of
his primary concerns was making sure that the Amiga behind it all
got some recognition.  When an OEM who was in that exact business
panicked, Copperman said this wasn't a policy.  And if there was
a change along those lines made, that "There's a right way and a
wrong way to get out of that business, and the right way includes
grandfathering existing applications."


>    ...will the average consumer be priced out of owning an Amiga,
>    much like what has happened with the Mac?

I predict that the Amiga 3000 will not have anything like a consumer
price.

However, Copperman stated very strongly at the start of the meeting
that Commodore and the Amiga are in a very good position to straddle
the consumer and the professional markets.  he said that Apple was
struggling with how to go about reentering the consumer market.
He mentioned product differentiation briefly, and stated that the
future of the A500 would be mass market, and the dealers would be
selling higher end Amigas.

I expect that Commodore will begin very quickly to separate the Amiga
product line into the 500, and the 2000 and above.  (He mentioned
that the ad campaign targeting the professional market would start
in January.)


>Do we want to see the average software price increase, as
>Copperman hinted also?  (I don't)

I'm not thrilled about this either, but Copperman's right.  The
high end programs that are missing from the Amiga's repertoire
cost big bucks on a Mac or IBM.  If Commodore does manage to straddle
both the consumer and professional market, it will have both spreadsheets
that don't do presentation quality graphics and sell for $100 and
spreadsheets that do do presentation quality graphics and sell for $500.  

Re: .12

>He didn't seem concerned about the impact of the pc clone market other
>than saying that they were going to avoid head-to-head competition
>with ibmpcs and macs.

I didn't get that message from him at all with regards to Apple.
He said that his tactic was to give the Amiga a market presence
by pushing it in niche markets: education, presentation, video.
That doesn't mean not going head to head against the competition.
He made it clear that success in the education market meant stealing
business directly from Apple.

Although he did seem to ignore the clones during much of his talk,
he spent a lot of time talking about Apple's weaknesses.  Apple's
weakness in the education market was that they were beginning
to push that market into abandoning the Apple II for the Mac.
Copperman said that anytime you convince your customer that they
need a change, that gives your competitor a chance to move in.
Copperman saw every educational Amiga sale in K-12 as a former
Apple II customer who didn't by a Mac.

    one thing he didn't mention was anything about trying to get
    the C64/C128 users to migrate to the Amiga.  Max Toy seemed
    to feel that was a big potential market for the Amiga.
    
    -Dave

    I suppose it's assumed that existing (happy) 64 & 128 owners will
    simply upgrade to the Amiga when the feel the need. My brother upgraded
    just last week. He's not in the  computer industry but felt he wanted
    something more than what he 64 gave him, now he's got it !!!
    
    Mike

            
     Regarding the comercials, I always thought a $ comparison would be
    effective.
    
     Ex:
    	To do this (item) will cost you this;
    
    		Amiga $          IBM $    Mac $
    
        To have the eqivalent of a Workstation would cost you this;
    
    		Amiga $		IBM $	  Mac $
    
    
     Etc... 
    
    
    	After all, the reason I went with Commodore Products in the first
     place was "More Bang for the Buck".
    
    								Toby
    

    I'm sure Commodore is avoiding doing direct knockoffs of the
    competition, but there's a LOT they could say if they chose to.
    
    On the IBM front, Amiga HAS the operating system the PS/2 DREAMS of. 
    Check all the latest puffery about OS/2 multi-tasking and the like.
    
    On the Macintosh front, it's common knowledge that Multi-Finder isn't
    the answer to user needs for multi-tasking.  The recent invasion of the
    Mac into desktop video serves to validate that marketplace.  Amiga's
    been doing it for years for a LOT less money.
    
    I've only seen two of the three commercials thus far.  Unfortunately,
    neither conveyed even a glimmering of the Amiga's REAL strengths.
    
    As for gaining validation by raising prices, that CAN work without
    screwing loyal Amiga users.  If the A501 memory/clock module were
    bundled with the A500, the price could be raised $100, producing more
    revenue for Commodore, a modest savings for me, a system that's STILL
    less expensive than the Apple IIgs (gag!) and works better, and some of
    the desired result.
    
    Introduction of the A3000UX at the expected price would help too. 
    Advertised in all the right places, it could become the Un*x
    WORKSTATION OF CHOICE for cost-conscious companies.

    No one in their right mind will argue the price/performance issue.
    Where the Amiga loses out, is to the people who want/need to run
    specific applications, that are unavailable on the Amiga.  Just look
    at the $4000 A2500 -vs- the $13000 IBM PS2/70.  These run identical 
    benchmarks...
    
    This weekend, I was talking to a person who is responsible for the 
    academic computers for a large (K-12) public school system.  The
    Apple II and GS's have outlived much of their usefulness, and 
    she is looking to upgrade.  Naturally, I played Amiga saleman.
    She easily conceded that the Amiga was a very powerful, creative
    platform, but that the educational software was lacking.  I told
    her to spend some time looking, and she would find that the Amiga
    software has really grown in quality and quantity.  She wasn't 
    convinced.
    
    Another friend won't buy an Amiga, because it won't run Oracle. 
    He uses it for a living, and would like it at home.  Commodore must
    convince the software companies to produce quality 'namebrand' 
    stuff.  The hardware can sell itself.  (Just show someone 'Berserk' 
    on an A2500 and watch the jaw(s) drop.)
    
    One recent magazine had a price/performance comparison between the
    Compaq 386/33 and the DECstation 3100.  Naturally, the DECstation
    kicked the Compaq's butt.  The machines were configured similarly -
    8 Meg, 80-100M drive, ethernet, hi-res graphics, Unix, C, etc.  
    The Compaq cost $20K, the DECstation ~$10K.  But... the Compaq has
    the ability to run MS-DOS programs... so it will continue to sit
    on the corporate desktop. (What would a similar Amiga cost? :^)
    
    Personally, I look at the 'ability' to run MS-DOS as a liability,
    and the lack of MS-DOS, a feature. :^)
    
    ~Steve

    re .24:
    
    I agree, I was hooked when I saw and heard "Marble Madness".
    But without the big name apps, its a loosing battle.
    
    I've only seen the house levitating ad in the Greater Ayer, Mass. area
    and found myself attentively listening and watching it many times.
    The music just acted as a trigger and my eyes followed.  It left me
    puzzled with what the commercial was trying to sell, but the phrase
    "Commodore Amiga" stuck in my mind along with it was some computer
    that would let me do a CAD picture of a house and levitate it on
    screen.
    
    Unfortunately, what was even more impressive was the rotating color
    globe and the very fast color printer showed at the end of the
    commercial.  Home color printers that could print that fast would sure
    be nice.  Now if only the technology could catch up.
    
    
    dennis                                              
    

    This is all a plot to get us to become part time amiga salespersons.
    CBM sold over a million amigas without having a great deal of good
    marketing.  They were sold mostly by rumors, demos, and dragging people
    in to see MarbleMadness and the Boing ball.  After CBM ran a few
    ads in the video magazines, I started getting asked for info about
    that Amiga computer.  More curiousity than actual intent to buy,
    but hey, I'm still working on them.  Someday.... The main thing the
    ads accomplished was to make them aware of something better than
    a generic pc clone and interested enough to start asking questions.
    
    The new ads should at least be able to do that.  So... any volunteers
    to help Tip figure out how to use the Amiga without Stevie?  :-)
    
    -Dave
    

    Today at lunch I heard a non-Amiga person ask if anybody had
    seen the Amiga ads on TV.  You know, the one with the Pointer Sisters,
    the Astronauts, and Tip O'Neil...  So it is getting noticed!
    
    I even had a friend ask me after lunch what kind of computer I would
    recommend for his sister's kids (age 10 and 12).  The first list of
    choices out of his mouth were Apple II or Apple IIGS...sigh...
    I'm working on him.  Anybody know of any good Amiga dealers within
    driving distance from Burlington, Vermont?
    
    thanks,
    dennis

    For those who can receive Boston TV stations, Don Towne of The Memory
    Location has provided a schedule of Amiga ads from last week through
    mid-December.  I have uploaded it to
    
    	WJG::AMIGA:BOSTON_AD_SCHED.TXT
    
    Some comments... Commodore is buying ads in the 18 top US television
    markets.  Much of the air time is for local station breaks during
    network programs.  Usenet people have also reported seeing ads on
    WTBS and MTV, and speculate that they will also appear on WGN and
    WWOR, for those people with cable.
    
    The posted schedule may look a bit wierd.  Weeks start on Monday.
    When a program is listed as being on more than one day per week,
    the number in the table is the number of times _per week_ an ad
    will run, often less than every night.  Times are sometimes not
    very precise.
    
    Turning to Boston, it appears that the long 60-second ads played
    last week and will run again in the week beginning November 13.
    The best chance to see ads appear to be
    
    	Channel	 Times	 Night	Program
    	  5	evening	 Sun	Cosby Show
    	  5	early PM Sat	College Football
    	 25	8-1130 PM Tu-Fr	Movie and I Love Lucy
    	  7	11-1130PM any	Late News
    	 38	evening various	Bruins Hockey
    
    Hope this helps at least some folks find the elusive ads.
    
    Wes

The new TIME magazine has the seven page spread near the beginning of the 
issue. My first impression was not great. There is little to grab you when you
thumb through. When I read the copy I was impressed though. Readers will get it,
but flippers won't. The ad wouldn't work in People magazine.

Unfortunately, the same issue has an article about the faltering computer
market and leads off by saying Commodore's Amiga marketing campaign is an
attempt to boost sluggish sales. The article then goes on to say there is really
nothing new enough in computer technology to convince customers to buy. 

Although I somewhat agree with the general concept of the article, it says
that companies (including Commodore-Amiga by implication) are trying to push 
outdated technology with splashy marketing. Ain't it amazing!  When the 
marketing finally comes, and the people are ready to accept the features the 
Amiga has to offer, the press is saying that the computer is too old! 

Yeah, thats the ticket. Commodore is just trying to get some more mileage 
out of that old Amiga line which is way past its prime. They didn't need to 
advertise when sales were good, but now that they are slipping...

Dave

    
    I saw the ads.  Seems like a great way to get Spectrum Holobyte
    to notice the amiga :-)  I also couldn't find the ads flipping
    thru TIME, but I remembered reading somewhere to look on page 6
    to find the ads.  Maybe they need an insert card with something
    like a 800 number to call for info.
    
    re: the put down article
    
    hmmm... the Amiga was designed how long ago?  the IBM pc?  the VAX?
    
    Is the idea of standards just a marketing concept to get people
    to buy old technology because it is an "industry standard"?
    
    Did the Amiga 500 or 2000 offer any great technological leaps over
    the Amiga 1000?  Or even worse, would anyone want to buy an "industry
    standard" computer that was limited to 640K and has to use bank
    switching to access above that?
    
    In a way he is right, there doesn't appear to be as much new stuff,
    at least to the general press.  The point he is missing is that
    computers are starting to get accepted as tools, not just wonderful
    toys.  That's why there is so much concern over standards and backwards
    compatibility.  Who wants to buy all new tools just because they
    are new or different.  
    
    In the case of Commodore, they had a great lead 4 years ago on the
    rest of the industry.  Now the industry has almost caught up to them,
    and they are still selling the old stuff (the enhanced chip set
    isn't shipping to customers yet).  But the standards for the rest
    of the industry are based on even older stuff, so they still have
    a chance and can take advantage of the "real soon now" advertising
    done by the competition.  
    
    -Dave

    The following came over Usenet, and describes the real Amiga content
    in the recent Amiga television ads.  I've removed a few extraneous
    lines.
    
From: [email protected] (Rick Unland - Regional Support)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga
Subject: Re: Where are the Amiga commercials?
Date: 3 Nov 89 19:36:08 GMT
Organization: Commodore Technology, West Chester, PA
Lines: 52

$In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Peter Altamore) writes:
$
$> I don't know where they got the animation, but from watching the commercial a
$> few times i'll bet that they assembled the entire shebang on videotape and
$> just played it through the 1084 while they shot the commercial. I've never
$> played that baseball game Stevie was playing, but I doubt a commercial game
$> like that multitasks.
 
It is obvious from the above statements that you are not aware of what the
Amiga can really do in terms of Video and Animation!
 
The animations used in the commercials were all being played back real time 
from an Amiga to the monitor in S-VHS mode. You are seeing the system run as
the anims were playing, The only usgae of video tape playback was in "Girl Next
Door" commercial where we played the sequence back to the girls television
set from the overlayed tape.  The Baseball animation was done by Silent
Software as was the space Animation "Leo Schwab" and the Music Animation By
Reichart. The Girl Next Door graphics and the Best New Album graphic at the
Music awards opening were done by Rick Probst of Pacific Motion, He also has
done Three Men and A Baby, Good Morning Vietnam, DOA, Shoot To Kill, and a slew 
of other Trailor Titles as well as the openings for the new tv show RollerGames.
He works exclusivly on the Amiga for design and then goes to high End rendering
Systems for final.
 
The "Levitation animation was done by HollenBeck Design and was also played 
back in real time from the Amiga.  So as you can see Everytime the 
Amiga was supposed to be doing something, IT Was!  And you might ask how I know?
I was in charge of the Technical for the commercials and every time you see
anything on the Amiga in the AD, I was controlling it. Also just for the record
Everything that you see was designed to run on a Three megabyte Amiga 500.
 
-- 
******* Rick Unland	Commodore Business Machines ****************************
*	Usenet: uunet!cbmvax!unland  ARPA: [email protected]         *
*	These opinions are my Own!   Not my employers, unless so stated!       *
* "I thought they said the Commodore could stand up to anything!"              *
*********************************************** Earth Girls Are Easy! **********

    OK, so it's been a month since the ads debuted.  This week, in Boston
    at least, local stations will show no Amiga ads.  Next week (Monday,
    Nov. 13) we'll see the second and final week of 60-second ads. 
    I think that there is just one long commercial, the one with the
    astronauts and Tip O'Neill plus other people edited out of the short
    version.  A few times per week there is an ad in the Boston _Globe_
    giving names and addresses of all E. Mass. and Southern N.H. dealers.
    
    Has anyone heard from store owners about just what the effect of
    the ads has been on their business?
    
    For that matter, has anyone seen the "girl next door" ad on any
    Boston station.  If so, where and when?  Sof far all I've been able
    to catch are "astronauts" and "levitating house."
    
    Wes

    The "girl next door" ad aired Sunday night around 9:15pm on Channel
    25 (Fox network) during the "Married with Children" show.  This is
    the first time I've seen it on TV.  I think it was just before the
    "Tangwich" scene.
    
    dennis
    
    p.s. Tangwich = Tang sandwich (crimp the ends so the orange sand
                    doesn't dribble out...) 

    

    Last week's issue of Time (or was it Newsweek) had the print ad
    campaign.  I think the ads are quite good - they feature real
    professionals using the Amiga in real situations.  The only way
    I can fault the ads is the hyperbolic "today, 50 years from now"
    (or whatever the number is); some of the Amiga's competitors are
    getting close to providing these capabilities, albeit not at the
    same price.
    
    len.
    

    Caught a modified version of the "Everybody up to Stevie's room" Amiga
    commercial here on Boston's Ch 5 during the 11:00 news on Friday. The
    modified portion consisted of about 10-15 seconds at the end of the 
    commercial - an Amiga screen to the left, the Commodore-Amiga logo
    to the right. Demos of 10 or so commercial s/w packages being shown
    on the Amiga to finally show off the different s/w available as well as 
    the graphics! The only ones I recognized right off were Mavis Beacon &
    GrandPrix Circuit. An excellent marketing technique to finally associate
    the company name with the machine.

    At the end of the ad they tossed a line in to the effect "Amigas may be
    in short supply for the Christmas season, so hurry to your Amiga dealer
    soon to get yours". Wonder if Commodore is trying to make the Amiga the
    Cabbage Patch Kid of this Christmas season?

							-Dom

    well... it did work for Coleco..
    
    I saw too.  Very nice, pity they didn't toss a picture of Max Headroom
    in with all the blipverts at the end :-)
    
    Now the big question - how do we get those demos?  That would help
    to sell Amigas, since the commercial will get them interested, and
    running the demos would prove that they are real - not just some
    special effects.
    
    Out of curiousity, I don't recall reading anything about a planned
    modification to the commercial - could it be that they were willing
    to listen to suggestions about the ad?
    
    -Dave

>    well... it did work for Coleco..
    
    Yeah, let's just hope that what happened to Coleco doesn't also happen
    to Commodore. BTW, the dealers do have the Time/Life ads in the showrooms.
    I picked one up at Omnitek last Saturday. Funny how a lot of these people
    featured in the ad just happen to come from towns on Long Island.

					-Dom (ex LongIslander himself)

I heard an Amiga 500 being given away to some caller to a radio program
Sunday night.

"You are the eight caller.  You win the Amiga 500!"

"Ayieee!  I won!  I can't believe it."

Freaked me out.

    
    Me too!  They've given several A500's away on "Zoo" 94.5 (Boston).
    Same deal, be the nth caller.....
    
    I can't help thing that some of those winners are saying "Amiga
    500, What's that!".   
    
    Frank