Conference hydra::amiga_v1

    If things went that well, you might consider marketing it, or selling
    the design to a third party.  **However**, Digital would not smile
    kindly on an employee selling hardware/software that promotes another
    computer companies product.  As a lesser evil, it might be alright
    to make an unfinished unit available (~ala the "Lucas" board) for 
    the general public, at cost.  I don't know.
    
    Check company policy before taking any actions.  Maybe someone else
    can give you some better advice.
    
    !!!! Nice Work !!!!
    
    ~Steve
                               

    re: .0
    
    Do you buffer the bus?  Not sure what that means, but that is what
    folks claim that the Toolbox (2 slots) does not do.
    
    You might want to talk to the Comp-u-save folks, they appear
    to be reselling that expansion board with more slots than a 2000,
    that goes in a pc case, formerly sold by Bill's Bare Boards, I think
    they were calling it the Surgeon.
    
    They might be willing to buy a better designed box than the Toolbox,
    I've seen lots of complaints about it not working right due to not
    properly buffering the bus.
    
    -Dave

    I'm interested in the board and maybe the case.  As for the rest (power
    supply, assembly, etc.) that level of hardware hacking I can manage.
    
    -tl

    
    It looks like Spirit are going to announce a 7/8 slot adaptor board for
    the A500.. the only difference is the they will be AT/XT slots and no
    need for a bridge board ...??? Don't know any more yet .
    
    They are release it at the next CES show I Think...
    
    Also they are going to have a memory (8Megs I think) for this system...
    
    The first slot poss A2000 type...
    
    
    	I'll let you all know more when I know more.
    	Unless someone else knows better...
    
    
    		Steve G...

    
    BTW 
    
    It looks like BYTES & PIECES (England) are no longer selling the 
    Bill Boards 2-slot , 3-slot or 8-slot boards due to unreliability .
    
    Sometime the boards worked and sometimes didn't..
    
    
    			Steve G

    This is just an idea, why not make a board that would bridge the
    Amiga slots to the pc slots?  For a 2000, this would only require
    a few bus drivers and some software to get pc interfaces working
    on Amy.  I figure that a U shape board with the necessary drivers
    woulod not cost a mint, altough the software might be more difficult
    to implement (I'm not a software giant).
    
    Jean
    

    re: .6
    
    This idea has been kicked around before, but nothing has come of it.
    I think the concensus was that the software effort to drive the
    board was greater than the cost of just using a regular bridgeboard.
    The only real difference between your "un-bridgeboard" and the A2088
    is the presence of a CPU and memory on the A2088.  That's pretty
    cheap.
        John Sauter

    Here's a novel idea! Stick to the original issue! I'm not putting a
    smiley here because I'm serious, but please don't take offense! Too
    often in the notes file people tend to drift off the subject! I'm have
    a difficult time with this and would appreciate oppinions/comments
    regarding what I wrote in .0 ! I don't mean to sound harsh but, telling
    me to design and build a buss adapter for the vax is probably next and
    I'm not going to! I have something that works now with three slots. Its
    solid. I have had all three going at once with a hardframe installed(dma)
    with no problems on a 2 foot cable! As far as the other "competition"
    is concerned, Pacific Periferals has two slots underneath but can't put
    a harddrive in it, and the others are stuck to the side (2 & 3 slots)
    and have compatibility problems with hardframe (with no terminator)!
    
    Thanks for listening...still looking for the light!
    
    		From the tunnel....Tom Senna

    Can't help you much with the case... From what I've seen either you are
    stuck with a standard case, or else you pay for tooling or setup on a
    custom design.  This is not a problem for corporations, but... :-)
    
    So I would suggest you find a case (such as a "baby AT" cabinet)
    you can live with and offer the project that way.
    
    As for the CPU slot, I think that the big hangup attaching to an
    A500 or A1000 is that the bus arbitration in the 68000 can't be
    turned off (signals BR, BG, BGACK), so you have to do some real
    funny business to make the microprocessor on the external CPU card
    look like a bus slave to the 68000.  Along the same lines, I think
    you can't turn off the E clock from the 68000, although synchronizing
    the external CPU to it is not such a big deal.  You could, of course,
    pull out the internal 68000.
    
    Good luck getting this out in a way that rewards you.
    
    Wes

Hi Tom,

I hate to say it, but I doubt if anyone here is going to come up with
anything that you haven't thought of.  I'll take a stab at summarizing the
options (which you already did somewhat in .0).

1.  Take the plunge and dump $$$ into this and build the first 40 units out
    of your own pocket.  This one is obviously the most risky because you
    have to invest the most dollars.  You could take orders without deposits
    but that is still not too safe.

2.  Try to convince people to give you a deposit in advance.  Maybe just
    enough to cover the cost of the box???  You could try contacting some
    of the mail order houses.  Maybe you can get orders from several of
    them for a few sample units.  Also you might try some of the larger
    user groups.  Don't you need FCC approval to actually market something
    that is outside the Amiga and has its own Power supply?  Especially
    with that connecter...

3.  Sell it as a kit with/without the box.  If they want the box, they will
    have to wait until you to send that along later.  If it is a kit I
    don't know how FCC rules apply, but they may be less stringent.

4.  Sell out the whole design to another co./vender.  Least amount of
    hassle and virtually no risk once you've sold out, but limited potential.

I think you really have to decide for yourself what you want to get out of the
product and then go from there.  I see the stock market just closed down
200 points!  Maybe you ought to wait a few days and see... :-).

-steve

BTW congratulations (inside comment)

    I personally would go for the "bare-bones-do-it-yourself" version first
    because:

    a.) I'm a wicked cheapskate.

    b.) *Real* computers have at least some part of their architecture
        exposed, infecting the locals with some deadly RF...

    Seriously, if it is compatible with the 1000 (have you tried it?), I
    think there are a lot of owners who would be interested in either the
    total package or the separate components (or even the whole shebang,
    case and all, in kit form). With all the A2000 boards available, it
    would be nice for us 1000 owners to have a reliable method of external
    expansion that isn't vaporware (has anyone actually seen a SubSystem
    1000?). Sure, the Phoenix/Toolbox chassis is available, but it's got
    only two slots (although it does have pass-through), no fan, and it's
    kinda  cheesy-lookin' for the money. I like your idea of a ribbon cable
    also. That offers more flexibility for choosing boxes/locations. Bill's
    Boards used the ribbon cable approach, but they wanted a fortune just
    for the artwork.
	I'd be willing to send some up-front money for at least one
    "complete" unit (ie. case and all), possibly two. Heck, make it two. It
    shouldn't be that hard to convince the old lady that I need two; after
    all, it wasn't that bad explaining why I needed *two* 1000's...

    Where do I send the check?

    Petey

    
    Hi, I'm interested.  So far my best choice is the Phoenix (A500), but
    I really would like more than two slots.  Send me mail if I can help.
    I wonder if DEC has any spare VT240 boxes they'd be willing to sell?
    Seems about the right size.
    
    Dennis
    

    I agree with .11 on his two points and I would like to add one more.
    
    c.) its more fun.
    
    I would like more info on the size of the device and cable lengths.  I 
    might be able to rearange the contents of my disk box (ex Lan Bridge 100) 
    and fit it there.
    
    I assume the power requirements are +5V and +/- 12V.
    
    Come on Tax return...
    
    Alan