Conference hydra::amiga_v1

Sounds like you're using an old XMODEM. I use the new XMODEM and HandShake and
never have a single problem.

	on the VAX

	$ xmodem/send/onek filename

	in HandShake set transfer protocol to YMODEM and then receive binary

or if you're transfering more than one file

	on the VAX

	$ xmodem/send/ymodem filename1,filename2,..

	use transfer protocol YMODEM BATCH in HandShake

There are a lot of xmodems floating around but it's hard to tell which is which,
so I've uploaded XMODEM_VMS_36.BCK to NORSE::AMIGA:[UPLOAD]. This is version 3.6
of xmodem and it works for me. The backup saveset includes both source and
executable. You also need some files like xmodem.cld , xmodem.com , and
xmodem.hlb. See the readme file. This version installs xmodem in the dcltables
with the xmodem.cld file so you need to get rid of your old xmodem foreign
command.

hope it helps,
tom

    I don't have any expeirence with a "bck" file, could you describe how
    to create an executable file with it?
    							Thanks
                                                              Ed

XMODEM_VMS_36.BCK is a saveset created by VMS BACKUP.

To see what's in it, type:

	$ backup/list xmodem_vms_36.bck/saveset

To extract everything type:

	$ backup xmodem_vms_36.bck/saveset *

To extract a single file (e.g xmodem.exe) type:

	$ backup/select=xmodem.exe xmodem_vms_36.bck/saveset *

tom

	Ed,
	If you don't mind switching protocols, go back a hundred notes to
	2724.  I had the same problem you describe, and the kind noters
	in this conference came to the rescue with JRCOMM (Amiga) and
	SZ (Vax), conversing in ZMODEM.  My transfers haven't had a
	failure since.  Be aware that JRCOMM doesn't have true VT100
	compatibility (I still use Handshake to read Notes from home!).

	Keith Y.

    re .3
    	  I successfully restored the save set to my account, however I still
    received the dreaded "time out errors" + "Bad CRC".
    Maybe it is in my terminal set-up on the vax..........
    
    re .4
    	  I got sz.exe into my account but received an " (incorrect?) image 
   error". I'm running on VMS 5.0 and have to recompile this if I can:
    
    	A.) find the source code on the net.
    
    	B.) Remember how to initiate the recompiling procedure.
    
    							Thasnks;
                                                                Ed
    

        
    Re: .5
    
    I've just but both rz and sz into my world directory. They both
    work fine under VMS 5.x. You can get them at:
    FRAMBO::BZOEVFL:[BALZER.WORLD]
    
    Hope this helps,
    
    <CB>

    RE.6
    
    	Thanks, they execute fine here at work.
    	(Now for the home test!);')
    
    	Does anyone know what the zmodem settings should be in JR. Comm for
     the most optimum download of binary files?
    	This program has alot of options I don't understand....
    
    							Thanx;
    								Ed
    	P.S. (how much faster is zmodem than kermit ?)

    Re: .7
    
    Use the "most advanced" (like recover download) settings in JRComm, 
    sz/rz support them.
    
    Zmodem is faster than X/Ymodem and those are already about 10 to
    20 times faster than Kermit (but not as save).
    
    Regards,
    <CB> 

    
    Re: .7, .8
    
    I just checked my JRComm Zmodem settings they are:
    Resume transfer,
    Auto download
    Auto d/l challenge
    32 bit CRC
    
    I don't use JRcomm, since it lacks VTxxx compatibilty and at 19200bps
    downloads via Xmodem are fast enough for me. So my favourites are
    VLT and sometimes Handshake.
    
    BTW, that should have been "safe" not "save" in my last reply. I
    guess I've been using backup too often again... ;-)
    
    Have fun,
    
    <CB> 

    Re: .8
    
>    Zmodem is faster than X/Ymodem and those are already about 10 to
>    20 times faster than Kermit (but not as safe).
    
    Naah... XMODEM is about 50% faster than Kermit on average due to 8-bit
    vs. 7-bit data transfer.  Some things can improve its performance
    further -- 1K packet size (vs. default 128 bytes) and packet buffering
    at the receiving end.  Both these reduce the effects "turnaround time,"
    the time needed to acknowledge each packet.  IMO, the most highly tuned
    XMODEM implementation runs 2-3x Kermit throughput. 
    
    VT100, the terminal emulator program, has lousy XMODEM performance
    because it writes to disk after _every_ 128 bytes, whereas its Kermit
    buffers about 1K before writing to disk.  Disk operations in VT100
    appear to take place before an acknowledgement is sent, which looks
    like a hangover from a single-tasking implementation.
    
    XMODEM with CRC option is at least as "safe" from undetected errors
    as Kermit.
    
    ZMODEM has even higher throughput because packet acknowledgement can
    be delayed until long after the next packet has started.  This
    "windowing" method reduces the turnaround time to effectively zero.
    Another nice thing about ZMODEM is that its author has learned from
    experience with earlier protocols.  However, on noisy lines, throughput
    can be really lousy because the turnaround time for a retransmission
    is very high.
    
    This speculation should be backed up with hard numbers.  Any takers?
    
    Wes

So there, here are some numbers to chew at:

File: 168 block, 86172 bytes
Linespeed: 19200 bps
Direction: VAX -> Amiga 500/1MB 

Kermit, 8 bit binary mode, packet size 80:
7:54 minutes	to df0:

Ymodem batch, CRC, 1K packets:
1:28 minutes	to df0:

Zmodem, 32 bit CRC, 1K packets:
1:30 minutes	to df0:

This last number had me wondering if I might be doing something wrong, so I
rechecked with a transfer to RAM:

Zmodem like above:
1:10 minutes	to RAM: (with a total of 10 errors)

Ymodem like above:
1:07 minutes	to RAM:	(with no errors)

I used JRComm 0.93 for Zmodem. I would guess that without the errors 
Zmodem is faster than Ymodem.

The 10-20 times faster estimate was just the feeling I had comparing Kermit
to Ymodem. My imagination did the rest. :-)

Regards, 

<CB>

    
    Well my phone has been out of service since Sat, but they(phone comp.)
     promised to fix it today.....
    
    I should be able to try out these theories tonight!:')
     How do you people transmit at 19200 baud, I thought comercial lines could
    only handle 9600 baud tops, and then not very reliably.
     Are you hooked into the Network, or running a null modem?
     
     I use "PCSA" software here at work with a E-ther net tie in from my Vaxmate
     to the network..
     File transfers are almost as quick as "disk to disk".
    
     If you are hooked into the network, can't "D-net" provide this type of
    transfer ability?
    
     Null modem transfers are the only ones I've seen that could run at 19200
     baud.
    							     Ed
    
    

    Re: .12
    
    Uhm, ehr, yes I confess, I have my secondary Amiga (A500) sitting
    here on my desk connected to the DECServer at 19200. You're right,
    standard phone lines don't perform too well at those speeds.
    Why 19200? Because the server won't go faster... ;-)
    Why no DNet? Because there's no Ultrix machine around and I don't
    feel like hacking DNet for use with VMS.
    Why no ethernet? Because the card's too expensive and DECNet-Amiga
    is not yet available.
    
    'Nuff said?
    
    <CB>

    Yup,
    	

	re .12

	This has been my experience too. Ymodem aka xmodem/onek always runs
	error free for me and thus completes in less time than zmodem which
	always has quite a few errors.

	Now, if I could just get through a transfer without someone in the
	family trying to dial out on another phone...

	tom

>Now, if I could just get through a transfer without someone in the
>family trying to dial out on another phone...

You can buy a little "lock-out" thingy at AT&T phone stores that allows
only one phone to be used at a time.  I use one to cut out my telephone
answering machine when I pick it up during the lead-in message.  It
describes how to use it to block out other phones when one phone wants
privacy.  You have to buy one per "other" phone, that is, if you have
a phone near the computer that you use for modem traffic and three other
phones throughout the rest of the house, you need to buy three of these
lock-out gizmos and put them on the three other phones.  I haven't tried
a configuration like this since I live alone, but it should work. I think
these things cost less than $10 each.

regards,
-jim

	I have a Migent Pocket Modem on my 500 right now.  Although I can't
make it answer and it's only 300-1200, it really packs a punch.
	Get this:  you can have any kind of line noise and it won't hang up.
Even better:  I had a software error  (trying to load too many things) and
had to three finger boot.  The modem kept the connection!!  I rebooted, loaded
ATalk III, dialed nothing and picked right up where I left off!!!
	I don't know if that's so remarkable, but I sure remember days when
you bumped the phone and it cut you off.

--mikie--

P.S. I use Z-modem.  Since I forgot how to turn call waiting off, I was worried
	about getting all my information.  But with Z I never have to think
	about lost blocks.

    Which VMS Xmodem do I need to communicate with the VT200 terminal
    program?  I want to switch from Kermit for sake of speed but don't want
    to have to keep multiple terminal emulators (one for download, one for
    work, etc.).  Will the Xmodem specified in this note work with the
    VT200 Terminal Emulator?
    
    George
    

	The version of xmodem uploaded to norse:: does work with vt200 - sort
of. You have to stick with straight xmodem (can't use the /onek or /ymodem
switches) and this slows transfers considerably (not that much faster than
kermit).

	I also have trouble transfering text files with vt200. When I upload a
text file from my amiga using xmodem/receive=text and vt200, I get an unusable
file(newline handling not compatable with vax). But when I do the same thing
with HandShake I get a file I can edit and print. I know some people have said
the text file can be fixed by the TPU write function but it's never worked for
me and HandShake does.

It would be nice if I could just stick with HandShake but unfortunately it's
not as good a vt200 emulator as smokey(vt200). I can't read usenet conferences
on Ultrix with HandShake and I can't edit recalled commands with HandShake so
I still use vt200 except for transfers.

tom

    
    I've been giving my xmodem (part of handshake) a try with little
    success. I looked at the xmodem code and it is waiting for an NAK
    before transfering to the AMI. Meanwhile both time out ???
    What's going wrong ??? I thought of manually sending from the amiga
    an hex 15 (for NAK) but realized that the xmodem protocol should 
    be handling this.
    I am going thru a LAT and have set my session passall in addition
    to setting my term /nobroad/eight to no avail. Both seem to just 
    sit there waiting for the other to respond !!!
    I hit <CR> on the xmodem dcl command line and then pull down receive
    binary on the AMIGA. 
    I'm using the YMODEM protocol on handshake/AMIGA.
    
    Does anyone have any suggestions out there ??
    
    Thanx,
    
    TODD
    
    

    I know this isn't the answer to you're XMODEM troubles, but have you
    tried ZMODEM? I had pretty good success with XMODEM, but since hearing
    about ZMODEM and the XPR implementation of it in VLT, I haven't looked
    back. One of the biggest plusses for me was not having to fuss with a
    lot of terminal and/or terminal server characteristics. After logging
    into the server, I simply connect to my node/service of choice. I have
    yet to find it a requirement to set the server session or terminal
    PASSALL. Then I have a section in my LOGIN.COM to set the terminal
    characteristics:

$ if f$getdvi("tt","tt_dialup") .Or. -
     f$locate("SERV45", f$getdvi("tt","tt_accpornam")) .Eq. 0
$ then
$	define ker$comm tt                 ! just in case I want nostalgia...
$	set terminal/NObroadcast/eightbit
$ endif

    Anyways, I don't mean to side-step the XMODEM problems, but ZMODEM has
    been extremely reliable for me. And if you're a die-hard Handshake fan,
    the latest version (V2.20c) has the XPR goodies to be able to use
    ZMODEM. Give it a shot...

    Pete

    	I'm no expert, but shouldn't you be using the XMODEM protocol on
    the Amiga end? I once tried using the XMODEM/CRC protocol to see if the
    host end could adapt. It couldn't. So, the chances of YMODEM on the
    Amiga side and XMODEM on the host side working seem pretty slim. 

    	Most Comm programs that boast XMODEM, XMODEM/CRC and XMODEM/1K will
    default to the "best" option available at the other end if the other
    end can't accept what you specified. If you ask for /CRC but all the
    other end offers in vanilla XMODEM, that's what you get. Not all such
    programs are well enough designed to include such a routine, though.

    Does anyone use XMODEM through TSN as opposed to calling directly to a
    LAT?  I've had no luck with XMODEM and was wondering if TSN is the
    culprit.
    
    Eric

The best possible advice I can give you is to switch to ZMODEM.
I tried using XMODEM through TSN. I don't remember whether I ever
got it to work, but any time spent playing with it is better spent
getting ZMODEM. Unless, of course, you are talking about downloading
from a BBS that only supports XMODEM... :^(. 

Good luck,
Dave

    Re .24/.25:
    
>                     -< Get ZMODEM. You won't regret it. >-
>   
>   The best possible advice I can give you is to switch to ZMODEM.
>   I tried using XMODEM through TSN. I don't remember whether I ever
>   got it to work, but any time spent playing with it is better spent
>   getting ZMODEM. Unless, of course, you are talking about downloading
>   from a BBS that only supports XMODEM... :^(.
    
    This is sound advice, even if Dave doesn't know why.  TSN only passes
    7-bit ASCII characters; XMODEM expects the full 8 bits.  As a result,
    XMODEM *does not work* via TSN.  KERMIT knows how to handle this
    situation, but it's slow.  ZMODEM provides most of the capabilities of
    KERMIT and IT'S FAST!  Unless you have no other choice, use ZMODEM.