Conference hydra::amiga_v1

	You could always buy a VAXstation 8000.

--mikie--

    I can't understand how you can compare the Amiga O/S with MS-DOS.
    I have used Amigas and AmigaDOS for about four years and I've used
    MS-DOS for about nine years.  Personally, MS-DOS is quite inferior.
    For more information, I suggest that you peruse an Amiga DOS manual.
    
    Regarding your friend's problems with the O/S, it appears that he
    is not entirely familiar with how the O/S works.  I know about twenty
    people who own Amigas, and usually when they begin to learn, they
    have a few problems, but nothing major.  Once in a while, someone
    accidentally erases or formats a disk, but this problem can easily
    happen with any operating system, if the user is not aware of the
    impending catastrophe (which is usually the case with new users).
    
    Concerning the flicker problem, right now you may purchase a graphics
    board for the Amiga 2000 which is called "Flicker Fixer."  Check
    out any Amiga magazine for latest prices (Amiga World, Info,
    Transactor).  The last time I checked, the board was running about
    $450.  Also, Commodore will release Workbench 1.4 (perhaps as soon
    as this fall), and with the enhanced chip set, you may use a high-
    frequency multi-sync high-resolution monitor (like NEC, Sony, 
    Mitsubishi, etc).
    
    Don't knock Amiga.  Amiga kicks ass.
    

>    $450.  Also, Commodore will release Workbench 1.4 (perhaps as soon
>    as this fall), and with the enhanced chip set, you may use a high-
>    frequency multi-sync high-resolution monitor (like NEC, Sony, 
>    Mitsubishi, etc).

    Is there a discussion of what 1.4 includes and is all about?  And this new
chipset, is it an internal flicker fixer or does it actually add screen size?
And if so, is it compatible?  What's you favorite animal sound?

    
>    Don't knock Amiga.  Amiga kicks ass.

	I'll second that.

--mikie--

    
    
  re .0
    
    As stated in earlier replies your friend needs to read the manual.
    Having the system set-up by someone else was his first mistake.
    It is clear he doesn't know how to set-up a system and doesn't
    know how his system was set-up. 
    
    	If his screen flickers, it is because "Preferences" have been
    set-up to display in interlace mode. This is NOT the default. Turn
    if off. My guess is he has no need to display in interlace. If he
    has a need there is a hardware add-on ( flicker-fixer ) that gives a
    great display or he can modify the colors to produce less flicker.
    
    	If he erases his disk installing new software it is because
    he is doing it wrong. In MS-DOS terms he is doing a DISKCOPY of
    a floppy over the hard disk.
    
    	Down-loading software doesn't hurt hard disks. The Public
    domain utility ZOO does. As any PD software, it may have bugs.
    A simple work around to un-pack ( ZOO ) files to floppies or
    wait for a new version of ZOO.
    
    	All the other problems down-loading come from one simple
    problem. Xmodem and Kermit store information on the VAX in
    different file formats. A simple conversion program is available.
    VAX users are not use to looking at file formats.
    
    	If your friend is having problems maybe he should find a local
    AMIGA user group and read the manual. If you can give details,
    put a note in this notes file.
    
   
    	If you are interested in an AMIGA get someone to give you a
    good demo. If you want to get a good demo and help for your friend
    and you live near I'll do it.
    
    		Steve Peters
    
    P.S. Do you read BYTE ?
    

    
    The Amiga is a very complex and wondrous creation.  To even compare
    it's unique OS to an MS-DOS machine is unfair.  First of all, MS-DOS
    is not really even an operating system, but more of a file handler. 
    The Amiga design is much more like a mini-computer than a
    microcomputer.
    
    For a good description of how the Amiga OS works, read Sheldon Leemon's
    article in the latest AmigaWorld magazine.  Also, Dr. Dobb's Journal has
    an excellent article comparing various multitasking operating
    systems.  In it he describes how the Amiga has achieved near-perfect
    harmony between it's custom hardware and system software, allowing it to
    reach or exceed performance levels of machines costing many times more.
    
    These articles are fairly technical in nature, and don't cover things
    like 'how to copy a disk'.  Such operations can be learned in about 5
    minutes.  Your friend seems (sorry) pretty uneducated in even the most
    simple file-handling operations.
    
    For a past history of 'Amiga versus Brand_X' notes, type
    "DIR/TITLE=*AMIGA*" and you should find several good descriptions
    (admittedly biased) of what makes the Amiga an unparalled graphics and
    sound workstation.
    
    Before you buy anything, always make sure that the software and
    hardware combination that you want is available.  And DO get a thorough
    demonstration.
    
    Ed.

    
    Upon re-reading .0, it occurs to me that your friend probably has a
    hard drive partitioned to have the same size and number of cylinders as a
    floppy.  I think it's possible to overwrite this 'system' partition by
    copying a floppy to it.  The solution is to either change the partition
    size or simply stop copying disks to it.
    
    Normally, if you dropped a floppy icon onto a hard drive icon (this is
    the standard way to copy disks) you'll get a system message telling you
    that the disk types are incompatible, preventing you from overwriting
    the hard drive.
    
    I assure you that the Amiga has no built-in propensity for destroying
    it's own data.  In fact, the Amiga disk structure is probably much more
    robust than the MS-DOS file structure.  In over three years of heavy
    usage, I've never lost a single byte of disk data.
    
    Ed.

Re: .0

>       The problem I have seen with a friends, is the screen Fickers.

This "aspect" is actually essential to your desired application, Video
Titling.

The Amiga support several different graphics modes: different horizontal
and vertical resolutions, different numbers of colors, and different
color encoding methods.  In fact, the Amiga hardware allows it to
change graphics modes on a scan line by scan line basis.  The Amiga
system software takes advantage of this ability by providing multiple
"screens."  If you think of windows on a workstation screen as virtual
terminals, you can think of screens on an Amiga as virtual workstations.
Each Amiga screen has a particular horizontal and vertical resolution,
a particular number of colors it can display, and a particular method
of encoding those colors.  Any Amiga screen can have multiple windows
opened on it.  You can have as many Amiga screens active as memory will
allow.  You can stack screens on top of each other and use front and
back gadgets to flip between them, or grab a screen and pull it up or
down to hide or reveal the screens underneath.

Anyway, one of the Amiga's video modes is NTSC compatible (European
Amiga have a PAL TV compatible mode).  As such, that video mode has
all of the benefits and drawbacks of a standard TV signal.  The
biggest draw back is that it flickers.  If you have high contrast
colors, high contrast objects (like small characters), and you
sit a foot away from the screen, then a TV (or an Amiga in "interlace
mode") flickers like crazy.  Flickers so bad that your eyes will
fall out.

However, that same video mode will not show any perceptible flicker
if you choose low contrast colors, or choose smooth blends of colors,
or view the screen from several feet away.  Again, this video mode
is exactly like a TV signal: no better, no worse.

Put an Amiga in interlace mode and view a digitized picture and
you will not see flicker.  But, put a page of 80 character by 48
lines of text on the screen, and you will think someone turned
on a strobe light.

For video titles, you want to use a TV compatible video mode,
and you will have to accept that mode's limitations (dedicated
video title machines wont even give you a choice here!).  You
will be using large fonts, and watching the results from
across the room.  Flicker will not be a problem.

By the way, the Amiga has all sorts of video hardware available
for it: genlocks ranging in price from about $100 to over $2000.
Various people are shipping or planning to ship all sorts video
special effects hardware for the Amiga.

For text processing, the Amiga has a non-flickering video mode
that unfortunately limits you to only 25 lines of text.  You
can buy a "FlickerFixer" (less than $400) that will enable you
to get twice that number of lines of text on the screen without
flicker.  Alternatively, you can use a long persistence monitor.
Color long persistence monitors are usually expensive, but
monochrome ones cost only about $100 to $150.

>The problem he has now is that when he goes to install a new
>package, he deletes his operating system and sometimes his whole disk.

There could be several different ways you friend is messing himself
up (previous replies discuss this).  I'll just add that installing
software on an Amiga (even under the worst conditions) is no harder
than installing it on an MS/DOS machine.

    re: .0
    
    Here's another point of view ....
    
    I went through what I think was a similar questioning and in retrospect
    I think it all comes down to cost/performance.  For me it was more
    of an Amiga/Macintosh issue (personally I think either system is
    a step up from any ms-dos or "small" unix system).  I have an 
    Amiga 2000 system  and believe the comperable Macintosh system
    would be at least 2x the cost of my current system.  That made the
    decision VERY easy for me.  The Amiga software market is constantly
    growing and some very good software is available for much less money
    than the more popular systems.  
    
    The only thing I really DON'T like about my system is the name
    "Commodore" on the front.  I have zero respect for that company.
    I feel they had little to do with the success of the Amiga and
    praise 3rd party vendors for trying to make the Amiga successfull.
    
    As for your friends situation, I think he has some basic learning
    to do.
    
    With the system you're considering, I'd go the extra $600 and get
    a flicker fixer and Multisync monitor.  What's a little more money
    when it's being spent on hi-tech toys ?
    
    Happy Shopping
        
     

       I have a few questions about why I or anyone would want a Amiga 
  system.
       I have a need for a good video titler, so I have been looking at the 
  Amiga system. I think I would want the 2000, with a hard drive , extra 
  memory, color monitor, genlock.
      
       The problem I have seen with a friends, is the screen Fickers. 
    
    >> The screen only flickers in 640x400 interlace mode. V1.4 chips
    >> will eliminate that (if you have a multiscan monitor). If you
    >> really need to eliminate the flicker, then you can buy a Flicker
    >> Fixer board for about $500 ... but you'll still need a multiscan
    >> monitor.
    
    He also 
  is afraid to load any of his programs on his hard disk. He had the guy he 
  bought the unit from install the operating system (work bench) and a few 
  other software packages, and all works fine. The problem he has now is 
  that when he goes to install a new package, he deletes his operating 
  system and sometimes his whole disk. 
    
    >> Sounds like operator error. Hope he isn't copying the whole diskette
    >> to his hard disk!! I have never heard of that before, and I doubt
    >> anyone else here has either.
    
    Good thing he has a back up. What I 
  don't understand is how the disk structure is used or set up. How can 
  coping a disk, delete all his other files. 
    
    >> Like I said, operator error more than likely.
    
    I use MS-DOS now and I never 
  have that type of problem. I also been reading about all the problems 
  with downloading. It seems to mess people's disk up all the time. 
    
    >> Hmmm, perhaps for one or two people on here, but I have never
    >> had a download problem, nor have the majority of other folks
    >> here.
    
    I also 
  have been reading about problems with controllers and memory.  So what 
  gives ??  
    
    >> Occasionally, a vendor will supply a buggy device drive with
    >> their controller. But, like anything that we sell that is buggy,
    >> it eventually is corrected. The majority of users appear to have
    >> no problems.
    
    I have seen some the nice titling the Amgia can do, but is it 
  worth all the other problems it seems to have ??. 
    
    >> Other problems may be more operator error than real problems.
    >> I can only speak for myself, but my A2000 with A2620 and GVP
    >> 40Q hardcard and ST277N, works slick. 
    
    I can get titling 
  software for MS-DOS systems and I know how the ms-dos works. MS-dos also 
  doesn't delete whole drives (DH0,DH1) ect.  
  
    >> Again, your friend may have deleted his files .. I could do that
    >> here on my VMS account too!
    
    
       What I would like to see is reasons to go with the Amiga system.
  Please explain to me how the operating system works and how disk 
  structures are set up. How to copy without messing up my hard drive.
  
    
       Thanks
       - Bob -
  

    What everyone seems to be missing is that the machine will be used
    for video titling work.  The flickering in Hi-Res mode is NECESSARY
    for a clean transfer of the graphics to videotape.  Regardless of
    how it looks on your computer monitor, interlace is required to
    get good results on tape.
    
    As for flicker fixer:  It will make the image look good on your
    computer monitor, but defeats the benefits of interlace when the
    image is transfered to NTSC videotape.
    
    Randy touched on this in his description of graphic modes, but did
    not state that interlace mode in necessary for video graphic work.
    
    As for the other problems, if your friend copies all files from
    a floppy to the hard disk, they will overwrite some of the files
    that should be protected.  Files from the S: C: Libs: and L: directory
    should be copied with care.  In most cases they don't need to be
    copied at all.  All you have to do is copy the program itself (there
    are cases where you will have to copy  more, check the user manual
    for directions for copying to hard disk)
    
    Doing a COPY ALL from floppy to hard disk will copy more than you
    want or need, overwriting important files.  
    
    Hope this helps.
    
    By the way, for video work, nothing comes close to the Amiga.  I
    know, as a Producer/Director I work with video every day.
                                              
    Randy Dearborn
    

    Also, it's a great machine, it will do it all MUCH better than I*B,
    Apple and others.  If it's just computing, it does it, sound/midi,
    a small midi interface and off you go, video, a genlock or a digitizer
    (or both) and you are in business.  Best of ALL, is the adoption
    of the IFF standards, which means that one file or image can be
    manipulated by different software packages THIS is what makes the
    Amiga the prime choice, the fact that you are not locked to a very
    specific program to do what you like to do.
    
    Jean
    
    PS the BAD part is that it's completely addictive, if the FDA knew
    about it, it would be outlawed.
    

    a filter over the screen greatly reduces the flicker, at least the
    one I saw in the Memory Location did, I think it costs approx $15.
    
    -Dave

    Contrasty graphics on the NBC nightly news flicker for the same
    reason.
    Tom

    Re: .8
    
    Frank Gatulis writes: 
    
    >The only thing I really DON'T like about my system is the name
    >"Commodore" on the front.  I have zero respect for that company.
    >I feel they had little to do with the success of the Amiga and
    >praise 3rd party vendors for trying to make the Amiga successfull.
        
    Well.......
    
    While I'm certainly no friend of certain CBM practicesin thee present
    or past (especially CBM Germany marketing, yuck), this generic 
    "CBM sucks" statement is quite false.
    Remember who just won for the second time the annual Boing! award?
    Nobody else than my good friend Dave Haynie, designer of the B2000,
    A2620, A2630 and author of such great pieces of PD software like
    SetCPU and DiskSalv. And Dave is a looooong time CBM employee, like
    alot of others (Andy Finkel, Carolyn Scheppner, etc). These people
    had IMHO a larger influence on the Amigas success than some 3rd
    party developers who will claim so. 
    I think that in certain aspects, companies like C.Ltd and even
    ASDG Inc., suck no less than CBM. Take that from one who does/did
    business with all of 'em.
    
    And try to imagine what would have happend if Atari got it's fingers
    on the Amiga...
    
    Regards,
    
    <CB>
    
    

    
    Re: .13
    
    How about "Never Twice the Same Color". :-)
    
    <CB>

    Returning to something near the original topic...
    
    I subscribe to Continental Cablevision in west suburban Boston.  The
    channel guide (Channel 3) is done on an Amiga (it GURUed once, several
    months ago), which may explain why they run Amiga advertising.  I
    gather there's a company out there that has sold a bunch of copies of
    its Amiga-based application to local cable companies.
    
    It appears they use a Genlock to grab videotaped excerpts from the cable
    shows (and other stuff) they advertise and add locally-generated text
    to say where and when the movie or whatever will be shown.  This all
    occurs on the top half of the screen.  The bottom half is busily
    scrolling upward with the schedules of the shows for the various
    stations carried by the cable -- generally one line per show, though
    movies get multi-line plugs.
    
    The Amiga is also cutting back and forth among multiple sound sources
    so you get background music and/or the soundtrack to match the
    advertising in the upper window.  It's an impressive application.

    
    Re: .14
    
    Sorry Christian, 
    
    Didn't mean to offend aynone or imply there aren't some great people
    working at CBM. Maybe I can phrase my feelings differently:
    
    1.  I spent a lot of money on my CBM system but I'd never invest
        in CBM stock.
    
    2.  Whether we like it or not, the Amiga is not a mainstream machine.
        In my opinion, CBM had a real opportunity to push the Amiga
        much more than they did.  What I "think I" see is the MAC and
        IBM world quickly closing ground in areas where the Amiga currently
        has and edge.  I don't think CBM is keeping pace with the
        competition in new innovations.  What can I say!  I did think
        highly enough of the system to buy it, and I do love it.
    
    Frank
       
      
    
    

Re: .10

>    What everyone seems to be missing is that the machine will be used
>    for video titling work.  The flickering in Hi-Res mode is NECESSARY
>    for a clean transfer of the graphics to videotape.  Regardless of
>    how it looks on your computer monitor, interlace is required to
>    get good results on tape.

>    Randy touched on this in his description of graphic modes, but did
>    not state that interlace mode in necessary for video graphic work.

Actually, I *tried* to get this across.  I guess I should take that
class in communicating effectively.  I tend digress too much...

    re .17
    	I see the others getting the edge also,but at what cost?If I
    had to have a mac or top end ibm,I'd have to go without.it seems
    the Amiga is all I can afford.I look around and I don't see a lot
    available within my budget.
    						bill