Conference hydra::amiga_v1

    
    OK, after my long-winded diatribe in .0, I thought I'd make a seperate
    reply about an interesting offer from CSA, makers of the Midget
    Racer...
    
    During my phone call with CSA, I mentioned that I worked for DEC.  CSA
    would dearly like to sell a lot of Midget Racers to DEC employees.  The
    offer that they've made to me is as follows:
    
    CSA Midget Racer with 12 MHz 68020 installed:	$327.00
    
    CSA Midget Racer with optional 16 MHz 68881:	$472.00
    
    Shipping and handling:				  $5.70
    
    Those are very good prices, especially $145 for a 16 MHz math chip.  In
    case you're curious, I paid $359 for my Midget from the Software Shop,
    and I've had a 12 MHz 68881 lying around for ages.
    
    Retail price for the Midget is $399, and the mail order prices are
    running around $359-$379.  The savings are even greater with the math
    chip.
    
    The offer is good for two weeks from 6/15/89, and the prices will hold
    for a group purchase by 2 to 100 employees.  Personal checks are
    accepted, but they will not ship until the check clears.  Bank checks
    will allow immediate shipment.  If you are interested, you'd better sign
    up quickly and nominate someone to choreograph the purchase, since I
    un-prefer to do it (hell, I already have MINE!)
    
    The person to contact at CSA is:
    
    Steve Riker
    Marketing Manager
    Computer Systems Associates
    7564 Trade Street
    San Diego, CA 92191
    
    (619) 566-3911
    
    Standard Disclaimer:  I have absolutely no affiliation with CSA, or
    anyone else for that matter.  I will get absolutely no gifts, perks,
    discounts, or other honoraria from CSA or anyone else.  If you blow up
    your Amiga, I wish you a lot of luck with your problem.
    
    Ed.
    

OK, I'm ready to take the plunge.  I have a stock Amiga 1000 and I read in
one of the Amiga mags (Amiga Sentry?) that this little fella will work in
my machine.  I was going to get a Lucas board, but I'll default and throw
money at this problem given the deal mentioned in .1.  I'll opt for the
16MHz math chip.

So is at least one other person willing to come in on this to make it real?

As to who coordinates this, that's still an open question to be answered
when more than one person replys.

regards,
-jim

    i am curious about what you said about the midget racer speeding
    up interceptor... i have the midget with the 68881 math chip and
    when i run interceptor i dont really see much in the way of a speed-up.
    so is there a way of utilizing the processor acellerator to speed
    it up using software or what??
    
                             dave peterson
                             node::husker
                             dtn 457-3128
    

How do you like the Midget Racer?

I have some rather impressive benchmarks Ed Acciardi and myself have been
doing which I'll post in a couple days...

John

    
    Re: .3
    
    You mentioned that you have a Midget and don't see much of a speedup
    while running Interceptor.  You also asked if there was 'a way of using
    the processor acellerator to speed it up using software...'
    
    The Processor Accelerator is a different product, made by CMI.  The
    Midget is made by CSA.  The Processor Accelerator needs a software
    command to enable it.  The Midget is automatically recognized by
    AmigaDOS and has the 68020's instruction cache enabled.
    
    My seat-of-the-pants flying feels almost 2X faster using the Midget
    with Interceptor.  I also have expansion memory in my A2000, which may
    make a small difference, although I doubt it, since Interceptor runs on
    a lo-res screen, which shouldn't cause any contention problems.
    
    Watch this space for our benchmarks... the Midget really does work, and
    you'll be surprised at how well it works.
    
    Ed.
    

    re .5
    
    the midget racer is a "processor accellerator". i was not refering
    to the cmi board (even though i do understand that they refer to
    their board as such). also i do have a 2000 with 1.3 roms / fatter
    agnus chip / 3 meg of ram / pacific periphials 50 meg hardcard /
    as well as the midget racer processor accellerator with 68881.
    however i still see no increase in speed like you mentioned in regards
    to running interceptor. so once again i ask /// how are you getting
    this speed increase ??? by changing the startup in interceptor or
    by what other software means???
    
    
                                    dave peterson
                                    node::husker
                                    dtn 457-3128
                                    402-399-3128
    
    

    
    No software change whatsoever is needed to utilize the 68020 on the
    Midget Racer. Like I said in .5, AmigaDOS 1.2 and above automatically
    recognizes the 68020 and enables the instruction cache.  You need do
    nothing.
    
    The Midget DOES include software to disable the instruction cache,
    which seems like a rather silly thing to do, since that's how the 68020
    outperforms a 68000 at the same clock rate.
    
    Ed.

Could someone with an A2500 (or A2620) please mail me at WJG::GUINEAU
if you would like to run a benchmark?

I'm collecting interger and floating point bench data for all kinds of
CPU's and want A2500 in there!

FWIW - The Midget is *real* good.

John

    Does the Midget Racer in an A500 preclude the use of Spirit
    Technologies Insider board?  I would suspect that it does.  I mean
    after all, how many things can you stack in the processor's socket?
    
    -tl

    
    Why not call and ask?  I know of someone who is using a CMI Processor
    Accelerator on a Spirit board, and the CMI seems to be much more
    sensitive to timing tolerances than the Midget.
    
    Ed.

    
    Re: .8
    
    Okeydokey John, blast the benchmark(s) over to my place. Or put
    them in your machine where I can get to it.
    I've an A2620 in my machine, and if you're interested I can check
    the stuff on an A2630, too. :-)
    
    Regards,
    
    <CB>

        Kinda off the topic, but does anybody know anything about the new 
        (?) Amiga 68030 boards from GVP. I only have a small trade 
        article about them. It doesn't go into great detail apart from: 
        the boards plug into the CPU slot, require a RAM daughter board 
        for best performance, "It also makes the Amiga run twice as fast 
        as Apple's Mac IIx.", plug in and go, and the prices.
        
        GVP 68030 boards:  $849 @16MHz,  $999 @25MHz
        
        4Mbyte Ram daughter board (upgradable to 8 Meg) $1999
        
        A 68030 board for $849 looks resonable to me, but then again,
        I wouldn't know.
        
        Angus

    
    Re: .12
    
    Although I haven't driven a GVP '030 board lately (or ever), all
    the information I received shows that the board is quite well
    designed, ie. they support the cache burst mode (w/ the 4Mb RAM
    board).  
    Alas, there are two possible disadvantages with this board:
    a. As far as I know it won't support DMA transfer into it's RAM
    from other parties products,
    b. If you're thinking about UNIX on the Amiga (AMIX), CBM hardware
    will be the way to go for some time.
    
    Hope that helps,
    
    <CB>

Having installed the Midget in my A500 last night, I can tell you it works
fine with the Spirit Insider (1.5 meg).

However! It just barely fits! The keyboard rests on the 68881 chip. The
rf shield no longer fits (I'm going to cut a small hole where the Midget sits)
and the case is a *bit* tight :-) But it fits and works...

I think I'll remove my keyboard and extent it's cable. ANyone done this
on a 500 yet?

John

    
    Re: .11 (A2630)
    
    OK, fess up, Christian; what's an A2630?  Is that Haynie's '030
    daughterboard or a brand new card that CBM is developing?
    
    Ed.

    
    I sure hope that I'm not giving away anything confidential, but
    since we demo'ed the stuff on CeBIT...
    
    The A2630 is "succesor" to the A2620. Since the price will be quite
    higher, the quotes are VERY justified.
    It features an 20 MHz 68030 plus FPU and up to 4MB 32bit RAM on
    board (like the 2620). Since the board uses the cache burst mode
    if 4MB RAM are installed, it's performance increase over the A2620
    is substantial. Like over 10000 dhrystones...
    But this board will probably not hit the streets until some problems
    in the mass production of this high speed board are solved.
    
    Regards,
    
    <CB>

Ok, I have all the 2620 numbers I need -  And even a 2630 set :-)

Anyone have the CMI board installed?

John

RE: .14
>> I'm going to cut a small hole where the Midget sits)
>> and the case is a *bit* tight :-) But it fits and works...

Sounds like hot rod talk, John. Are you going to put on a hood scoop and 
paint flames on the sides too?  I just can't erase these visions of you 
and your A500 Midget Racer...  ;-}
        ____           
   =>=>=)___)         
      ___| |_________
      |              \===____              
      |______________________)==(@@)===(@@@)====(@@@@)====vrrRROOOOOOOOoommm......
       
Well, you get the idea...

Living vicariously with a racers heart, but a family man's budget, :-(
Dave

Ha! Thats good! I don't know whether to laugh or cry :-)

(Although I almost fell off my chair at first!)

John

Here is some info I received.  I have a question for Midget Racer owners at the
end of the information.

  I am exploring the possiblity of putting an accelerator on my A500.  Turbo
Silver takes entirely too long to render simple objects.(my rationale for
spending more $$$$)  I tried talking with Imtronics (Hurricane 500) but was
unable to get through.  The Hurricane A500 has a 68020/68881/16mhz.  with 
1Mb 32bit dram sells for approx. $750+(magazine price avg).  I spoke with
a guy on Plink who said the Hurricane 500 wouldn't work with GVP SCSI control-
lers, it had problems with DMA devices on the expansion bus.  I did speak with 
CSA, makers of Midget Racer and Mega-Midget Racer.  The Mega-Midget racer can 
be ordered in an impressive array of configurations.  Here is some of the
information I received from CSA.  

The Mega-Midget Racer(MMR) is a daughter board that fits in the A500(or A2000) 
68000 socket.  The 68000 fits on the MMR board and can be hardware or software 
enabled or disabled.  The MMR can be ordered with a 25mhz or 33mhz 68030, 68882 
math co-processor, and 512kb 32bit Sram.  The Sram is to hold the ROM Kernal(?)
when running the 68030.  You can also add 1 - 8Mb of 32bit Dram.  The 
MMR can be ordered with just the 68030; 68030 and 68882; 68030, 68882, and 
Sram; or as a bare module and you supply your own cpu(s) and memory.

CSA says that they have several 25mhz 68030/68882 A500s running around 
the country.  The only problem he quoted was that a guy in New York has an 
occasional problem booting his system(which has a Supra SCSI host interface 
and Supraram) when he first powers it up.  Once the Supradrive has been on 
for a couple of minutes, it warms up, it works fine.(?)  

The full configuration, 68030,68882, and memory is supposed to be within
power specifications (with room to spare) of an A500s power supply powering
an A500 with 2 - A1010(?) 3.5" floppy drives.

Here are CSA's list prices:  (can be had cheaper through mail order)

	MMR 25mhz 68030 only		$895
	with 25mhz 68882	    +   $249
	with 512Kb Sram		    +   $399(comes on a small board with space
					     for Sram and additional Dram)
	2Mb 32bit Dram		    +	$499
	    
A bare MMR module can be ordered from Computer Discount for about $595.00.

A Midget Racer, 68020/68881-16mhz can be had for approximately
$370+ (more in line with my budget)

Questions:

How does the 68020 midget racer run?  Any compatibility problems(besides
games)?  If they work fine in the A2000, they should work fine in the A500
right?  Can you disable the 68020 easily?  Any info will be appreciated.

mark

p.s.  I've heard, from rumors, that the Infinity machine from M.A.S.T. has
encountered (apparently) unresolveable problems. 
    

    
    The original Midget Racer is a good way to (properly) add an FPU, but
    other than that, it's not much good for anything.  Quite a few games
    crash (unless you can disable the cache), and sound sample sometimes
    got a little funny.
    
    It did speed up my Sculpt-3D rendering time by an order of magnitude. 
    My Midget is now sitting on a shelf, having been replaced by an A2620
    board.
    
    If you like, send me some mail and we can discuss if you'd like to buy
    it.  It's an A2000 version, but I think it's identicle to the A500
    version.
    
    Ed.

    Does anybody  have a Midget Racer and a Starboard?
    
    I bought a '020 board at the Chicago World of Amiga from a company
    called TTR Developement (12 Mhz. 68020 AND 68881) for $300 (Show
    special) Safe Harbor has them for about $350.  But, it does not work
    with my  Starboard.  They said that they had tested it with a Spirit
    inboard, and it works fine.  I suppose if it came down to it, I would
    trade my starboard with a friend who has an inboard, and loose the
    extra 512K, but regain the 68020 and 68881.
    
    (A short look at the Sapphire board.)
    
    It's tiny.  About the same size as a 3 1/2" floppy.  They only have one
    version, but it fits all (500 1000 and 2000's) machines.  There are
    about 6 chips on it.  4 PAL's, the 68020 and the 68881.  I was really
    suprised to see both those at this price.  It's one of those that fit
    in the CPU socket, but there is no place to put the 68000 to fall back
    to if needed.  I'm not a hardware guy, but it took me about 10 minutes
    to install, after I got the case open.  I had to remove the diskdrive,
    and the 68000, and plug this guy in, reinstall everything and it worked
    fine (but with out the starboard 8-( [imagine a VERY grumpy face here])
    
    

    Well I'm looking for some help with this thing (midget racer).
    I'm picking one up cheap, without a Math Coprocessor so I started
    combing the adds in the back pages of various computer mags for prices.
    
     My questions are:
    
    	Can I use a 68882 in this unit? Whats the difference between the 
     68882 and a 68881.
        Why do some of the chips with slower clock-speeds cost more?
        example, 68881 16mhz  costs more than a 68882 25mhz?
        
    								Thanks;
    									Ed
    
    

 Okay, I plugged the midget racer into my 500 it was easy.
 Here's the problem.
 When the A500 is disconnected from the GVP-Series II card it works fine.
 When the A500 is connected to the card it just comes up to the white screen
 and stops. The hard drives spin up and the scsi buss led flashes once and
 that's it. It never goes looking for a disk in df0: or anything.
 Has anyone ever had a problem with the Midget Racer used in combination
 with one of these cards?
  Is the DMA operations conflict with the Midget Racer functionality.
  Do I gotta drive all the way back to the Computer Store to return the
 midget racer!
  Stay tuned...
  Same Hack time.
  Same Hack Channel... ;')
							Thanx;
								Ed
                                            Impatience + Ignorance = Aggravation