Conference hydra::amiga_v1

Vince, I believe that you have everything correct for AMOUSE. However, the
way it works is that by default, port 1 is used for the AMIGA mouse, and
port 2 is used for the PC mouse. This way you can have two mice active
at the same time, one for the AMIGA and the other for the PC. Try plugging
your mouse into port 2. There is also a key sequence which will swap the
mouse ports, so that the mouse on port 1 becomes the PC mouse and port 2
becomes the AMIGA mouse. Off hand I can't remember what it is, I think it
might be right AMIGA P. This is a toggle, so doing it again swaps the ports
again. Give it a try.

As far as your second problem, I have found that the Janus software just
doesn't like the fast file system. I get all sorts of random errors if
I put my msdos disk in a fast file system partition. I ended up making
the first partition on my hard disk the slow file system and putting my
msdos disk there, and the second partition is the fast file system for
everthing else. This seems to work fine. I also have had many problems
using AREAD/AWRITE to read/write files to a fast file system partition.
I end up going through the slow file system partition. Ie, copy a file
from the PC to partition 0 (slow), then from Amy copy it to where I
want it. This is a real pain, and I plan on flaming to Commodore on
this. There's no excuse for the stuff not working with a fast file
system partition.

Frank

Hi Frank,

Thank you very much, in fact "Left Amiga/P" did the job. The 
mouse is now working very well.

As for the Jlink stuff, I have a long story to tell to Comodore.
I just installed Janus V2, thinking it would fix my problem, but
it didn't changed at all.

Using Janus V1 and a Kyocera 20 Meg Hard disk, my MsDos file
would create and grow all right exept of directory corruption
quite often, it wasn't reliable to put data there.  My dealer
then gave me a miniscribe to replace the Kyocera, but in the
mean time I did some changes to the hard disk with PREP on
HDinstall.  Since then my file stay at "0 byte".  I am not
sure, but it seems that Jlink exect certain characteristics
being some kind of default for it to work.  I will work that
avenue soon.

P.S. I am using your SEDT and it works very well, now if I could
     make the MsDos version to get the keys properly mapped, it
     would be very good. There are files in some amiga directory
     that sort of map some keys, but I can't make much sence out of 
     them.  I will work some more on that too.

Thanks again,
Vince.

    What is the story on this upgrade, ie. what is it, where is it
    available and how much. I have an early bridge board - I'd certainly
    like mouse support, and maybe wild cards usinf AWRITE and AREAD
    (does it do that?)
    
    I read an article at the weekend in a Dutch Amiga magazine which
    said that v2 Janus was now being shipped with the boards, but that
    they were not able to release updates (yet?) due to a licence
    disagreement with Microsoft. Any light on this ?
    
    Colin
    

    I called my salesman, who called Commodore and they told me 
    that he cannot get me an update.  Commodore wouldn't give
    it to them.   My salesman agreed to let me copy the floppies
    (there is no protection on them) but the manual I couldn't
    get it.  
    
    Soon he will lend me the book for me to photocopy and the heck
    with comodore.  My dealer had made a deal with us (customer)
    and comodore to give us (FREE) updates for one year.  Since I
    have my Amiga since xMas, the upgrade MUST be free. 
    (I got workbench 1.3 free that way).

    I don't beleive that you need a license to run the software
    since it runs with their hardware only and no other sftwr
    exist. You have paid for it when you bought the hardware.
    They may charge you for the floppies/printing of the book
    though.
    
    As a comment about Janus V2,  I don't find any differences
    on the basic system exept the mouse, the clock (enabling
    you to use the amiga clock to read time in the PC, and
    a program that "hard boot" the PC, instead of rebooting the
    whole Amiga.   PCDisk is the same as V1. (no FFS support).
    (PCdisk is for the use of an Amiga HD on the IBM. Real
    peace of crap as far as I am concerned, it DOESN'T work)
    But I heard (not tried) that you can partition a IBM disk
    to FFS for the Amiga.

    The little I saw in the boot, makes me feel it's a little
    better that the older version.  
    Ex: When you use AREAD/AWRITE they DO describe the required
        switches (/b for binary files and others...)

    
 Vince.

    You may not care about software licenses or copyright law, but that
    doesn't mean that they don't exist.  If the floppies are copyrighted
    you are wrong to copy them, and your dealer is wrong to let you copy
    them.  The same applies to the manual.
    
    If the software is licensed then you are stealing it if you don't pay
    for it.  It doesn't matter if the software runs only with Commodore's
    hardware, and it doesn't matter if there are no alternatives available.
    You didn't pay for Janus V2 when you bought the hardware, since Janus
    V2 isn't for sale yet.  You might have paid for Janus V1.
    
    Think about VAX/VMS.  It runs only on DEC hardware, and there are no
    alternatives available, if you want to run VMS applications.  Does that
    mean that we can't get customers to pay for it?  No way!
    
    It is the attitude that you and your dealer exhibit that motivate
    software manufacturers to add copy protection to their products,
    thus making all of us suffer for your disregard of the law.
        John Sauter

    Reply to John Sauter about Copyright and licences.
    
    Like I said before, Commodore themselves made a deal with 
    my dealer and his customers to provide FREE any new version
    of software that will come within ONE year of the purchase.
    (Note that this is a special deal with my dealer who happens
    to be a wholesaler) (I got WB 1.3 FREE that way, with the
    manual etc...)
    
    Don't give me that licence flame, I feel perfectly clean on
    that one.  

   Vince.

    I forgot to add also that when you buy VMS (or WB, etc..)
    you should pay the licence ONCE.  When a new version come
    out, you may be asked to pay for the media, the printing
    and/or the delivery charge and perhaps some of the newer
    features available in the newer version.  I don't think
    it's honest for a company to make you pay the license
    again.   
    
    P.S. The WB version 1.3 I got has a sticker on the back
         cover and said "NOT FOR RESALE", of course it was free.

    A license to use a piece of software is not equivalent to the right to
    copy its media or documentation, unless the license provisions say so.
    With DEC software you must _buy_ a right-to-copy license to use
    already-licensed software on another computer system, for example.
    
    The experience you had with your dealer doesn't seem right, if the
    dealer really does have an agreement with Commodore to provide free
    software updates for a year.  If my dealer told me he had made such an
    agreement, I would ask to see a copy of it.  There are a bunch of
    dealers whose ethical standards are not very high---you may have found
    one whose standards are especially low.  That is, he may have lied to
    you about having an agreement with Commodore.
    
    Even if I held my dealer in highest regard, I would not phototcopy
    copyrighted manuals which he gave me, unless he could give me something
    in writing from the copyright holder which gave me permission to do it.
    By photocopying copyrighted manuals you are putting _yourself_ at risk,
    not your dealer.
        John Sauter

    
    I think Vince is clean on this one, as 'wierd' as it may seem.  I've
    seen several threads on PLINK referring to an 'arrangement' whereby
    dealers may upgrade their BridgeBoard customers to J2 without any
    hassles.  The various CBM representatives on PLINK have had plenty of
    chances to dispute this, but haven't. Several dealers on PLINK have
    commented on this informal upgrade plan.
    
    In lieu of a formal license agreement, but in consideration of the
    widespread distribution, I'd grab the software in a second and not
    worry about it.  CBM certainly doesn't seem to be.
    
    To equate this with piracy seems ludicrous to me.  The world isn't
    black and white (unless you're a lawyer).
    
    Ed.

    According to Vince's story, he is getting a lot of hassle on the
    manual, at least.  I don't know what's going on here, but it doesn't
    sound hassle-free to me.  In any case, I stand by my position of not
    photocopying copyrighted material without written permission from the
    copyright holder.  Silence (even on PLINK) does not give consent.
        John Sauter

    
    The dealer I am talking about don't need a paper, he made
    a deal with Commodore and the leading air transport company
    on this country, so all employees can buy ONE PC of his choice
    at wholesale price. That deal I am absolutely certain since it
    was written on the order form from the dealer.  Same type
    of deal DEC makes with it's employees. (No resale for a
    year etc..)
    
    His prices are unbeatable (CDN$89.00 for the new 1 meg Fat
    agnus (about US$70.00)).
    
    	My dealer would absolutely NOT allow me to copy material
    that would not be authorized by Commodore.  He is the biggest
    wholesaler in the country and would not risk loosing his license.
    
The only thing I see bad is why commodore is taking so long to
distribute the Janus V2.0 without the board?   I beleive they
have distribution problems.
    
    Vince.

    Hey folks...
    
    "license" and "update" are two completely different things.  If
    you bought AmigaDOS, (and you did when you bought your machine)
    then you have a license from CBM to use AmigaDOS on that machine.
    When you get an update, its nothing more than that... a new release
    of a product FOR WHICH YOU ALREADY HAVE A LICENSE.
    
    CBM has a right to revenue for producing the 1.3 update, and should
    be compensated by your purchase.  But the flame in .5 is totally
    off the wall.  You have several somewhat related issues confused.
    Please think before you flame.
                                 
    <<< Tim >>>

    re: .12
    
    .5 was written in response to .4, which is titled "License, what
    license", and contains such statements as "Soon he will lend me the
    book for me to photocopy and the heck with comodore" (sic).  It was not
    my intention to confuse licenses, copyrights and updates, though, as
    you say, these are related topics.  All three of them were touched
    on in .4, and so I responded to all three.
    
    I make my living by writing software for DEC, and so it bothers me when
    I see someone who doesn't appear to care about license agreements or
    copyrights.
        John Sauter

    Re: .5, .6 and .9: 

    Here are two messages from Usenet commenting on the upgrade situation.
    Turns out Vince Ledoux was right.  He may be wrong in a narrow,
    technical sense when copying the manual, but Commodore indeed does not
    care about keeping a tight hold the software. 

    Commodore has followed a minimum-cost approach to upgrading system
    software.  Based on the second message, Commodore plainly has no plans
    to make much profit on Janus upgrades, just as AmigaDOS upgrades are
    priced roughly at cost. 

    One might legitimately question Commodore's business practices and
    sloppy communication with end users.  But in this case customer
    satisfaction has clearly won out over other factors. 

    Wes Plouff 

From: [email protected] (Paul Higginbottom)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga
Subject: Re: Using the Amiga mouse for the XT or AT bridgeboard?
Date: 13 Jul 89 13:10:01 GMT
Organization: Commodore Technology, West Chester, PA
Lines: 26
 
In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Marco Papa) writes:
$In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Paul Higginbottom) writes:
$>This is a Commodore supplied utility (AMouse), and it works really well.
$True, but as far as I know AMouse is supplied with the AT BridgeCard (2286?)
$and not with the XT BridgeCard (2288?) as part of Rel 2.0 of the Bridge
$Software.  I don't think the Bridge software is currently sold alone. So,
$how does a 'older' Bridgecard user get hold of the new software, if at all
$possible?  Inquiring minds want to know :-)
 
Good point, Marco.  We have been telling customers and dealers that they
can go ahead and have the newer software copied onto their older disks.
The newer A2286 software works very well on the A2088.  This is only
an interim solution however (and of course, a free one) until we hopefully
release a Bridgeboard Enhancer kit, which for a minimal cost (a la regular
Workbench Enhancer kits) will provide the latest software and manual.
 
The only problem with getting the new software copied onto older
disks is that there are SOME differences in the software as far as
installation, and of course the older documentation won't say anything
about newer features, such as AMouse for example.
 
I recommend that EVERYONE with older Bridgeboard software get upgraded.
Naturally, if the dealer doesn't have an AT Bridgeboard in stock, he or
she may not have the latest software, so please understand this.
 
	Paul.

From: [email protected] (John Campbell - Marketing)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga
Subject: Re: Using the Amiga mouse for the XT or AT bridgeboard?
Date: 13 Jul 89 13:57:09 GMT
Organization: Commodore Technology, West Chester, PA
Lines: 13
 
Janus 2.0, for use with the A2088/A2286/Sidecar products is expected to be
available for shipment late in August, so dealers should have it in the
beginning of September.  It will be an inexpensive standalone product
following a philosophy similiar to the Enhancer 1.3 package.
 
Features include FFS support, Microsoft mouse emulation, the ability to
write applications that take advantage of both the PC's and the Amiga's
displays and resources, and the ability to set the PC's time/date from
the Amiga's clock/calendar.
 
I hope this sheds some light on the questions being asked.
 
John