Conference hydra::amiga_v1

    :'{
    
    I phoned up the company. Apparently the �1355 is a misprint. In
    actual fact its �1599. Still, is this a good deal?
    
    Angus

    I thought �1355 seemed too good a deal.  You started to make me feel
    quite jealous !!!
    
    I purchased an Amiga A2000B plus a 1084S monitor from Computer Care
    South in Reading for �1099 (inclusive).  This was the best price I 
    could find at the time (30-Jan-89).
    
    A price of �1599 for the specification listed is fair.  However,
    do you really need the bridgeboard and 5.25" drive ?
    
    -Dave.                     

    Dave,
    
    I don't need the bridgeboard and 5 1/4" drive, but I do need the
    hard drive. If I buy a package without the bridgeboard, the price
    should be near �1250.
    
    Just what is a B2000 ?
    
    Angus

    <   Just what is a B2000 ?
    
    It is the latest version of the A2000.  It's real designation is
    'A2000B' I believe.  I think the A2000B contains one extra slot
    compared to the 'old' A2000.
    
    Your price of �1250 including the Hard Drive is very reasonable.
    
    -Dave.

    I'd go for it.
    
    An A2000B is a re-designed A2000, almost completely. The Mother
    board is radically different. Thinks like the flicker fixer, and
    the new enhanced Chip set will work on an A2000B, but not an A2000
    (I've got an A2000!). As far as software goes, I've never heard
    of anything that won't work on both.
    
    Martin

    A bit more investigation has revealed that currently, the
    B2000/Bridgeboard/20 Meg HD (MS-DOS) is a special package that
    Commodore has put together. This isn't much good to me, as I want
    to use the HD as a Commodore HD, not a DOS HD.
    
    I have been quoted a price (from Computer Care South) of �1500 +
    VAT (�1725) for a B2000 + 1084S + 20 Meg HD, and the price quoted
    for a B2000 + 1084S is �1100 + VAT (�1265).
    
    There is an outfit in Bedford (Powerhouse Direct) who quoted �899
    for a B2000 and �225 for a philips CM8833 = �1124 (inclusive).
    
    I think I'll either get a friend to bring a Commodore HD from the
    US for me, or use an RD-54.
    
    Angus

    Re: -1
    
    Just in case it is not clear, you can of course set up such a DOS
    hard disc so that it has a DOS partition and an Amiga partition.
    You can use the Amiga partition just like a normal Amiga hard disc.
    (Except maybe it is a tad slower - also I doubt whether you will
    ever be able to autoboot from it. I have a 32Mb hard card (DOS),
    partitioned 12Mb DOS and 20Mb Amiga. It works fine. If you get a
    bridge card, it is the cheap way to hard disc capacity.
    
    It sounds like Commodore have picked up a bundle of cheap 20Mb cards
    and bundled it to sell a few more bridge cards. Still not a bad
    deal though.
    
    Make sure you get the B2000, not A2000. It seems the A2000's won't
    be upgradeable to the 1.4 chipset in the future. The usual case
    of the early users get kicked in the teeth. Does anybody know anything
    about any upgrade offers - anywhere?
         
    Colin
    

    The latest.
    
    Power house Direct quoted a price of �1193 (inclusive of VAT and
    delivery) for the latest B2000 and 1084S. This is the best I have seen
    so far.
    
    They can offer this package as they import direct from Germany.
    Its some �300 less than Silica Shop. However, the Silica Shop package
    includes Photon Paint, the Works, and Ten Star. It all depends what
    you want.
    
    Angus

Re: .4

>    <   Just what is a B2000 ?
>    
>    It is the latest version of the A2000.  It's real designation is
>    'A2000B' I believe.  I think the A2000B contains one extra slot
>    compared to the 'old' A2000.

It isn't clear that the new model of the 2000 has any official name.
Although, B2000 is probably the most official (that is what the machine
is called in Commodore Amiga Hardware documentation).

The B2000 is the only Amiga 2000 ever sold in North America.  The A2000
was only produced in very limited numbers and sold in Europe.  You probably
could not find for sale (except as "used" systems) anywhere in Europe
during the last year and a half.

A few "dealer demo" systems of A2000s where sent to magazines and dealers
in North America.  So, it would be possible (but very unlikely) to get an
A2000 if you buy a used 2000.

A quick look on the back of an Amiga 2000 will tell you if it is an
A2000 or B2000.  A B2000 has three "RCA jacks" (the round jacks that you
find on the back of stereo components), marked left audio, right audio,
and monochrome video.  The A2000 only has two RCA jacks (left audio
and right audio).

It is very unlikely that anyone buying a new 2000 could end up with a
A2000.

And just to muddy things up, many people (myself included) when talking
about the Amiga 2000 will call it the A2000 for brevity.  They are not
really referring to the original Amiga 2000.

It is sort of interesting how the B2000 came about.

The original Amiga 1000 was designed by a small company (Amiga, Inc.)
that was acquired by Commodore.  Amiga, Inc was located in California.

After the 1000 was shipped, the Amiga folks in California started work
on a new, improved machine code named "Ranger," which everyone expected
would be called the Amiga 2000.  This machine was to use significantly
improved custom chips, a 68020, etc.

Commodore's hard times and tight money made it too expensive to continue
such an expensive engineering effort.  Meanwhile, Commodore's German
branch, which designs Commodore's IBM clones, stated that they could
produce an Amiga 2000 (a business machine with slots using the existing
Amiga chipset) in a short period of time.

Commodore canceled or scaled back the Ranger work.  In addition, it laid off
much of the people at the California office.  The Germans were given the
go ahead to produce their version of the Amiga 2000.

Shortly, Commodore decided to close the California office, and move what
remained of Amiga engineering to the corporate headquarters in West
Chester, Pennsylvania.  The West Chester office was then put in charge of
building a cost reduced Amiga called the Amiga 500.

The West Chester group managed to produce an improved version of the
Agnus custom chip (the fat Agnus) that they then incorporated into
the design of the Amiga 500.

The Germans finished their design of the Amiga 2000 (a modified Amiga
1000 in a slot box).  The West Chester group finished their design of
the Amiga 500 (a cheap to produce Amiga that used an improved version of
one of the custom chips).

The West Chester group stated that they could redesign the 2000 to be
cheaper to manufacture and have additional features.

Thus, the West Chester people effectively put an Amiga 500 into a slot
box to replace the Amiga 1000 that the Germans had put there.  Their
additions were a full meg on the mother board, the new Agnus chip, a
monochrome output jack, a slightly improved processor slot, and an extended
video slot.  (It is this slot the author of .4 is probably thinking of.
However, it really just an extension of the original A2000 video slot.)

Originally, the folks as Commodore called the different 2000s the
German 2000 and the West Chester 2000, then the A2000 and B2000.

So that's the story: plenty bad decisions, turf wars, and different
groups stabbing each other in the back.  Sounds like a lot of engineering
groups I know.

By the way, the Commodore President that made the above decisions was
fired.

    Would anybody like to buy a slightly used A2000. Owner upgrading
    to an A2000.
    
    Colin