Conference hydra::amiga_v1

    
        
>    What are the differences between the Amiga 500, 1000, and 2000
>    both performance-wise and price-wise ? I've noticed some units for
>    sale in this conference at reasonable prices and may consider buying
>    one. I've seen the Amiga 500 and noticed it had super graphics.
    

See note 2271 for a description of the Amiga graphics modes (NOTE: I
incorrectly quoted the maximum overscan resolution as 704 x 480 pixels.  It is
actually 768 x 480 pixels in severe overscan).  	

Also see note 2256 for a discussion of some of the Amiga's specialized hardware
and system software that make it so interesting.

All models are architecturally identicle, using the same custom chipset for
graphics and sound and the same ROM installed.  The A2000/A2500 models have a
video expansion slot and a coprossor slot (actually, the A2500 IS an A2000 with
an accelerator board in the coprocessor slot).

You mentioned an under $1000 system.  Close, but no cigar.  A minumum A500
configuration includes 1 MB or RAM and two floppy drives and an RGB monitor.  I
think the best you could do is $1100-$1300 depending on whether or not you go
mail order.  You should really pick up an issue of AmigaWorld magazine and go
through the advertisements to get a feel for pricing.

Some dealers are bundling in a free VCR with an A500 system.  OK, so it's not a
great VCR.  You could think of it as a $1100 VCR with an Amiga system thrown
in for free.

>    Because of my being a Dec employee is there a particular computer
>    that I should consider. (Dec doesn't make a home computer that's
>    in my price range). Have noticed that Apple gives us a farcical
>    discount.
    
Well, DEC IS in bed with Apple to some degree, although I don't really know
what advantages, other than a 30% discount, that you'd personally enjoy.  There
are active Apple II and Macintosh NOTES conferences from which to draw wisdom
and experience, but WE have as much wisdom and experience per square inch as
any other conference.  You should base your purchase decision on the
availability of software and hardware that you want for a computer that you
like.

>    I'm looking for a home computer for the following uses;
>    Games (of course)

The Amiga is an outstanding game machine.  The best.  Amiga games can use 16,
32 or 64 colors from a pallette of 4096.  The Amiga also offers hardware
sprites and some other tricks.  Stereo sound is standard.

>    Midi interface

If MIDI applications were your primary need, the Mac or Atari ST would be a
better chice, since they are ahead of the Amiga.  However, ther ARE many MIDI
interfaces available for the Amiga in the $40-$100 price range.  Dr T's has
ported their line of over 20 music titles to the Amiga.  I don't actually use
this stuff, so I can't say if it's any good or not or even truly available. 
Best bet would be to get a demo.  I honestly doubt that the Amiga is the first
name that comes up when discussing MIDI, although Electronic Musician magazine
has had some very nice things to say lately, mainly about the benefits of a
multitasking environment.

>    Music Scoring

Not sure exactly what this is, but Deluxe Music Construction Set has been
described as a word processor for music.

>    Word Processing

Lots to offer here.  WordPerfect, Excellence!, Prowrite are probably the top
three choices; the latter two offering WYSIWYG displays and integration of text
and color graphics.  There are a dozen or so other titles that you probably
don't need to consider.

>    Budgeting

PHASAR and Money Mentor come to mind, as well as a couple of Public Domain
offerings that are quite functional.  PHASAR probably is the way to go, based
on the comments I've read in this notesfile.  Gold Disk has a new offering, but
I haven't heard any reviews yet.

>    Video Editing

The Amiga has no competition in the known universe here.  Talk to a dealer, or
better yet, get a demo of the the various color digitizers, FrameGrabber and
video titling software.

>    Recipes

Does anyone really use a computer for this?  (only kidding)  Actually, there IS
a program out with favorite recipes of famous persons.  There are also lots of
database applications (MicroFiche Filer is quite unique and innovative) that
can handle any type of record keeping task.

>    Calendars

See above 

>    Network Connections
    
Can't say much about this.  The Mac is getting all the connectivity attention
these days.  Ameristar makes an Ethernet board for the A2000, and there was
an earlier note about DECNET being made available.  There are a few very good
VT emulation programs, so logging in from home is no problem.    

>    I would want a system that gets decent service, a variety of good
>    software, has good graphics, sound capabilities, and is expandable.

You didn't mention where you were located.  I'd check on the availability of a
service center, or better yet, try to find a dealer who offers in-house
service.

On expandability:  All Amiga models are expandable to 9 megabytes of RAM. 
There are literally dozens of SCSI interfaces available for attaching gigabytes
of hard disk storage.  The array of choices can be very confusing, so you
should seek out a competent dealer for advice.  If you do find an interesting
add-on, you can always ask here for other people's experiences.

The A500 can be expanded via buss add-ons, but the cost will always be more
than the corresponding A2000 option.  This is because the A2000 is a large box,
like a PC, with multiple slots.  Any A500 peripheral will require it's own
power supply and enclosure, which increases cost.  If you think you can
restrain yourself to a 20-40 MB hard drive and a few extra MB of ram, there are
a few 'slap on the side' enclosures for the A500 that contain a hard drive,
SCSI interface, and sockets for up to 2 MB extra memory.  Great Valley Products
and Supra come to mind, but Commodore has announced their own version which is
not yet available in my area.        
 
Ed.

Personally, I built my A500 system up over 6 months.  I started with a simple
composite/color monitor with patch cables and the A500 with standard � meg of
memory (at the time $525.00) adding the memory ($150.00) after a couple of 
months and using an old RGB monitor and finally adding the hard disk.

So, if you need it cheap with a limited budget you can get away for less and
then build up over time.  It all depends on what you want it to do right away
and what features your willing to wait for.

George

    Thanks for the replies.
    
    re. .1  Ed
    
    Based on the amount of add-ons that I'll want I think I'll consider
    used equipment to keep the costs down. The only demo that I've had
    was at Software Etc in Worcester, MA. and I really didn't get much
    of a demo. The graphics were super as was the sound. Loading the
    operating system seemed to take a lot of time but from there everything
    processed quickly. They didn't have any external drives.
    
    You mentioned an RGB monitor. I take it this is the best choice
    in monitors for the A500 ? The woman at Software Etc. said that
    you can use a television set but wouldn't get as good graphics.
    She didn't mention that it would need a special connector but I
    have a feeling that it would from looking at another note.
    
    I'm wondering where there are other dealers close to Worcester.
    Have looked in this notesfile as well as the phone directory and
    it seems that either Burlington or Bedford is the closest . ??
    
    This notes conference as well as others will definitely influence
    my decision. It does seem to be real informative. I also see that
    there are some pointers to free software that make getting a
    modem to be high on the list of wants.
    
    > you can always ask here for other people's experiences.
    
    That's a definite plus. Thanks.
    
    
    
    re. .2 George
    
    It's good to know that you can easily expand the Amiga to get it
    do what you want it to do. I'm sure that when I first get my system
    I'll have a learning curve so that I won't even be ready for a
    full-blown set-up immediately. As I get accustomed to it though
    I can see how it's sorta like my other interest, music, in that
    the more you get the more you want and soon you've got a major
    investment. At some point you have to start telling yourself no.
    
    I think that all things considered I can probably start with an
    A500 cheaply enough and as I find sales/deals I can add on.
    
    Is it adviseable to get the RGB right away or are there alternatives
     such as television sets ? Any idea what the list cost is for an
    RGB ?
    
    
    You've been a big help. Thanks ! 
    jm

>    Is it adviseable to get the RGB right away or are there alternatives
>    such as television sets ? Any idea what the list cost is for an
>    RGB ?

I also strongly recommend AGAINST using a television set. There are 3
possibilities:

RGB -  The 1084 is an inexpensive RGB, and multisync monitors are the
more expensive choice. I think you can get a 1084 for $350 or less.

Composite - Second best. The RGB signals are combined into a single
output. The composite signal from the Amiga 1000 has lousy color and
is nearly unreadable when fed to a 1080 monitor (which has both RGB and
composite inputs). It's acceptable when fed to a b&w monitor. (If you
feed the composite output of the 1000 to a 9" b&w monitor, it looks
like a Mac- 

Television - Yuk. Take the already-not-so-good composite signal and
lay it on the rf carrier. Then feed it to the television, which must
remove the rf, and resolve the RGB out of the composite signal. Result
is pretty bad. You need an external rf modulator to take the composite
and add the rf, so the TV tuner can read it. All in all, adds a lot of
noise to the process. If you have a VCR with a "video in", then this
will serve as rf modulator. (i.e., amiga -> VCR -> TV) If your TV has
a "video in", you bypass the rf (tuner), but then it's really acting
as a monitor.

John O.

    I agree with .4 that a Tv is no fun.  Personally, I lived with a
    non-RGB monitor for four months and it was ok.  I had the Commodore
    1702 Color Composite Monitor (for the C-64) and bought a $24 patch
    cable to plug it in.
    
    Note: The A500 has a composite output built it, but it is b&w and
    you'll want color fast.  I started with the b&w and *that* lasted a
    single day. :-)
    
    If the money is bad and you can't find an old RGB, look for a 1702 it
    has the Chrona/Luma input mode which retains a sight more information
    that simple one line composite and all-in-all doesn't do a bad job. 
    You'll find a little strain reading 80 columns but it is workable.
    
    George
    

    
    I've found a color TV works out ok, if it's a 19" color.  Haven't
    tried anything smaller.  It's horrible compared to RGB, and the
    right border of the display is off screen, but for games and some
    text editing it is ok.  It does a decent job of displaying 80 columns
    in a mostly readable font.
    
    -Dave

    Another monitor option is to borrow a VR241 or an old Barco GD33 from
    work.  They're no problem to hook up -- you'd have to make/buy your
    own cable -- and you'd be getting decent video until you could afford
    to buy your own monitor. 

    - Cliff