| John,
Whoa there. I think you are reaching technology overload :-).
> I originally wanted to get an Apple IIgs, but I'd have to
> drop about 3k for a basic package with a limited amount of
> software. I wanted to pay just over half that. And I don't
> want to be limited to the resolution of the RGB monitor that comes
> standard.
You can get a lot more for a lot less if you go with an Amiga.
For example, the "basic" Amiga 500 system with 1 meg two drives and
color monitor should easily come in under $1300. This is quite sufficient
if you really want a computer for your kids and as a hobby/family computer
for you. I suggest you use one of these systems before you feel that you have
to go wild with add ons. This is not a stripped down system. The REAL basic
system is 1 drive and 1/5 meg.
> Are these systems as (add_on_able) as the PC clones? As in
> disk drives, memory, Midi's, graphics cards, PRINTERS, whatever?
> And if you are locked into a unique end of the market, how
> vulnerable is that market? How do the third-party vendors compare
> to the Msdos world.
I am not an expert on the msdos world, but I can say that the amiga comes with
a lot of power that you need to add in the PC-world. You do not need to add
graphics cards, mouse/joystick cards etc.
If you are looking for modest exapansion beyond the basic A500 described above,
you can add a combination hard drive (say 20 or 30 meg) and another memory board
(0-2meg) that comes in a box with its own power supply for another
$800-1500 depending on whether you get all the memory chips at once.
This attaches to the side of the A500. Midi is a $50-$150 add on.
If you really are committed to expansion including 9 megs flicker fixers
multiple drives etc. than you should probably go with the A2000. I am sure
someone in here can explain in detail. The flicker fixer only works on the
A2000 (Although a future chip change may make that board obsolete I think?)
> If Amiga folded tomorrow,,, would the systems end up as
> closet toys in three years?
I don't think Commodore or Amiga are going to fold tommorow. If you
want absolute security, buy a PC. If you want a better computer with
a fair amount of security and lots of potential/increasing sales etc.
get an Amiga.
> I need educational software. Is there much available? Can
> the 2000 and the 500 be made to read/run MSdos applications/games
> if the Amiga folks don't get around to producing it, or anything
> similar to it. And if so,,,, how much more will I have to chip
> in the get this feature?
Well, I discouraged someone from getting an Amiga a few months back when that
was stated as the PRIMARY purpose for the computer. I have a seven year old and
a 3 year old and have found it difficult to get good and inexpensive educational
software. I am please to say that the situation is getting better all the time.
Besides, my three year old likes the SAY program (type letters and the
Amiga speaks) best, and that comes free with the operating system.
I think the Memory location in Wellsley Mass. is an excellent place for
someone like you to go and play/ask questions get aquainted with the
Amiga. The Software Shop in Wocester is closer and cheaper but you will
probably not get as much attention/hand holding there.
Good luck.
Dave
|
| Why the Amiga? I've been researching Pc's for about three months
now, and I never, (Never) come across articles on the Amiga in
the Pc magazines, in the computer chronicles, or in Bite. Why?
Conspiracy theories aside, the Amiga really doesn't compete with the same
crowd, and so has its own magazines. It hasn't caught on as a business
machine, like the Clones and the Mac. It may someday. It's more a matter of
inertia than technology. Amiga today is a great game machine, and the best
choice for software hobbyists and for sound and graphics applications. It's
also a good choice for cheapskates.
I originally wanted to get an Apple IIgs, but I'd have to
drop about 3k for a basic package with a limited amount of
software. I wanted to pay just over half that. And I don't
want to be limited to the resolution of the RGB monitor that comes
standard.
The only reason to consider the IIgs is for the educational software library.
It is slow, overpriced, and technically inferior to all the other machines
you're thinking about.
One of the best things about the Amiga is that good graphics and sound come as
part of the basic package. This is good not only because you get a big break
on price, but because you don't have to make a lot of decisions based on
inadequate information and because software you buy will make the right
assumptions about your configuration.
I hear you guy's talk about the 2000, but someone told me
the 500 is a good system (comparable to the Apple IIgs), and very
expandable. The 2000 sounds a bit too High endish ( more the MAC SE
type ) for what I need. But if the price is right,, I'd like the
bigger system.
Are these systems as (add_on_able) as the PC clones? As in
disk drives, memory, Midi's, graphics cards, PRINTERS, whatever?
And if you are locked into a unique end of the market, how
vulnerable is that market? How do the third-party vendors compare
to the Msdos world.
These two issues are related. The main difference between the 500 and the 2000
is the box it comes in. The 2000 was optimized for expandability; the 500 for
low cost. Most of the attachments you can get for the 2000 eventually become
available for the 500, but they cost more because they have to include their
own power supply and box. They also eventually make your work area a real
rat's nest. The 500 lets you easily add a second half meg of memory (to 1meg),
a second floppy drive, a printer, a joystick, and a modem. It has now gotten
pretty routine to add more memory (say 2 meg) and a hard drive. If you expect
to get more than that, you should consider the 2000 from the start. But the
point on the expansion curve where you are better off with the 2000 is as much
a matter of taste as technical feasibility.
The Amiga market is smaller than the PC market, so there are fewer third-party
vendors and the prices are a little less competitive. But unless you're
looking for something really esoteric, you can probably get it for the Amiga.
I need educational software. Is there much available? Can
the 2000 and the 500 be made to read/run MSdos applications/games
if the Amiga folks don't get around to producing it, or anything
similar to it. And if so,,,, how much more will I have to chip
in the get this feature?
There is a "Bridgeboard" option for the 2000 which lets you run MSdos
applications. It costs a lot and can be trouble for the same reason a PC is:
there are issues of "how compatible", it's PC hardware without graphics
enhancers, etc. If you only want it for games, you probably don't want it. It
was designed to lure in the business buyer who want's the neat Amiga stuff but
has spreadsheet disks and such and can't/won't convert all at once. I don't
think it's available for the 500 yet.
Configuration needs: prices from the latest Abel listing poster here.
AMIGA 500 549.00
POWER SUPPLY 71.32 I understand the 500 has an external
power supply. Do I need this one, or
does one come with the Amiga?
1.3 Rom Chip 39.92
1.5 meg internal ram 189.00 Can I get just a .5 meg ram to update
the system just to 1 meg. ($$$ please.)
Mitsubishi multiscan mon. 519.07 I don't know if I need this high res.
mon. but I suspect I will like it once
I start using the system.
Flicker fixer 443.63 Do I need this?
22 meg hard drive 555.43
============
2367.37 Ouch!!!! that's about $500 to 700
more than I have. Can I trim the cost
on this a bit? Are there some items on
here I don't need.
The 500 comes with a power supply. You probably don't need the 1.3 Rom chip.
I believe the only advantage it offers is it allows you to directly boot from
your hard disk, which will save you a few seconds when you turn the machine on.
Definitely deferable.
Flicker fixer currently only works with the 2000 (or perhaps with some
expensive interface box). I've been told once you see flicker fixer with a
good multiscan monitor, you'll never want to go back. I haven't seen it and
live in blissful ignorance with my 500 and 1080 monitor. The flicker is
definitely annoying in certain applications, but most software has been
designed to avoid the problem areas.
The 500 was designed to be upgradeable to 1 meg "internally". There are
products on the market which upgrade by more with the same physical packaging.
Commodore warns against their consuming excessive power. I don't know any more
than that. My recommendation with a 500 would be to go with 1 meg initially
and when you get your hard drive get one that lets you plug in extra memory
too.
Am I going to need anything else? Cables? Whatever?
If you get the standard monitor, it comes with cables. If you get a fancy one,
you probably need to price the cable separately. It won't be expensive, but it
may be a pain to have confidence you have the right one. If you get a modem,
there's all kinds of free software available through pointers in this
conference. One of the major advantages of the Amiga is the wealth of free
software. Maybe other brands are catching up, but when I was shopping there
was no comparison. And a printer? "Printing at work" is not as easy as it
sounds. You need either a modem and a lot of patience or a system at work that
can read the same disk format as the one the Amiga writes. I'm not aware of
any PC or VAX software to read Amiga disks. There is Amiga software for
writing PC format disks, but I don't know anything about it.
If you don't get a hard drive initially, and maybe even if you do, you should
get a second floppy drive. A one drive system is a royal pain.
You don't list software. You'll need some. And it's expensive. You can find
assorted reviews in this conference. You might want to subscribe to AmigaWorld
and/or Amazing Computing magazine.
I'm a tight wad! I don't like spending money, so when I buy something,
I get what I need to do the job I want the first time, and I never up-
upgrade. I know nothing about home computing, so I don't know what
I'll be using the system for.
I really believe the system will be 70%
the kids system. Personally,,, I hate computers.
Beware... home computers haven't made it to the level of microwave ovens. They
are designed for people who love computers. If you're not prepared to enjoy
the hours it takes to figure out this really clever way to save two minutes,
you will probably be unhappy with any machine you buy. If you want to get
everything you need to do what you want and you don't know what you want to do,
you'll probably buy things you don't end up needing. This is inconsistent with
being a tight wad!
What are some of the pros and cons of the 500? Is it cheaper in the
long run to buy the 2000 now and pay less in the future because of a
more flexible expansion path later.
Exactly... if you ultimately expand later. If you never use it except to play
games, the 500 will always have been the less expensive choice.
I could live without the hard disk for a while, Yes, no, maybe ????
Can you live without the Flicker fixer ????
Depends on what you want to do. If you don't know, you probably shouldn't get
either until you find out.
Good luck.
|
|
.11 makes some good points. Software developers tend to support the
lowest common denominator machine, for the obvious reason of selling
the maximum number of copies. On the Amiga (all models) the lowest
common denominator is pretty large. Multitasking, 16/32/64/4096
colors, stereo sound (usually digitized, and of very high quality when
connected to an external amplifier and speakers), mouse support,
windows, blah blah...
With MS-DOS machines, you always have to ask yourself... 'Lessee, does
this software use CGA, Hercules, EGA, or VGA graphics? Will it support
my PlingSnart Extended Memory Spec board or my Blammo Sound Board?'
and so on. Which operating system shall I run, DOS, Windows, GEM,
OS/2... no thanks.
With the Apple GS, there are over 25,000,000,000 software packages
available THAT RUN IN 8-BIT EMULATION mode. The number of packages
that run in the 16-bit mode (ie, nice graphics and sound) are probably
around a few hundred. I have no idea how good they are. I've played a
few games on a GS, (Marble Madness and Summer Games) and their Amiga
counterparts were light years ahead in every respect. You may want to
ask the question in the Apple notes conference, but be prepared for an
hysterical reaction at the mere mention of the word 'Amiga' (which in
itself should tell you something...)
The second good point mentioned is that if you're nervous about
spending money, you're life will become a living hell, and you'll
probably have a nervous breakdown. The hardware expense can easily
be dwarfed by the software expense. This phenomenon is not limited
to the Amiga, and is in fact more severe on Macintosh and IBM systems.
Even a simple 8-bit Apple or Atari or C-64 system can rack up software
bills in the thousands of dollars.
My advice? Don't do anything. Buy US Savings bonds instead.
Seriously.
Ed.
|