Conference hydra::amiga_v1

Steve,

I've ordered from GO AMIGA several times and have been very pleased with
their service.  There prices are not always the lowest, however.  Also,
I have ordered software from Abel IF THEY HAVE IT IN STOCK!  Beware of
this one since they will tell you from now until you die that it will
be in "next week".

In general, I won't go with a mail order company unless they can assure
me it is in stock and will be shipped immediately.

Good luck!

...richard

    I have ordered from ABEL a couple of times, the last order from
    thier BBS, and both times, the delivery was within 3 weeks.  And
    this is to my door in Montreal so I guess that some of the time
    was wasted in customs.
    
    Jean
    

    With Abel, if it's in stock, it can get to you in three days.  If
    it's not is stock, it might take three years.

    I ordered my A500 system from a place called RSI Systems in Rhode
    Island (1-800-555-1212 :-) [Advertised in Amiga World I think]) and
    theier service was great.  Ordered from MA on Tuesday early afternoon
    and had it arrive before noon on Thursday.
    
    George
    

    
    RE: .1-.4 thanks for the info.
        
    If I get an A2000 via mail order and it arrives with a problem can
    I take it to a local CBM service center and have it worked on under
    warranty or do I have to send it back to the mail order house (ugh!)?

    Still wondering if anyone has heard of Montegomery Grant in NYC...
    
    -steve

    My experiances with Abel have been the same.  If they do not have
    it in stock look elsewhere. They do have good prices.  I also have 
    used Computer Mart (Ad in Amiga World).  They have the same problem
    as Abel with the added twist that they charge you for the back ordered
    item and never ship it.  Also out of the four other orders I have
    placed with them they managed to screw up three of them.  So that makes
    four screwups out of five orders.  I do not recommend them. 
    
    Others I have used:
    Computer Surplus in Cal. once with no troubles.
    TimeLine in Cal. once with no problems.
    Computer Mail Order in Pa. twice with no problems. 
    
    Hints:
    Try to use the ones with 800 numbers (much cheaper if there is a
    problem).
    Record the name of the person taking the order with dates and time.
    Verify shipping charges and shipping method.
    Verify return procedure incase of problems after the equipment is recieved.
    Use a credit card.  The Credit card company may be of help in settling
    disputes.  Plus there is not a time lag waiting for the check to
    clear.
    
    
    If you have a problem with a company do not hesitate to write to
    the Attorney Generals Consumer Affairs dept of the state the company
    resides in.  Of course this is SLLOOOOWWWW.
    
    Don't let one bad apple in the bunch scare you away.  In most cases
    the sales tax you save is worth it.
    
    Alan
           
    
    

    RE:.5  Yep ... the fix-it shops gotta make a buck too. CBM reimburses
    them for warranty repairs. Outside of warranty, they'll take your
    dollar as quickly as they will from someone who bought a machine
    from them!

    Re: .5
    
    If theres a problem some places might want the machine back.  RSI
    Systems tolde me that if I had a problem they would do a replace but
    thier would also be a "restocking" fee or something.  So when you
    settle for a place get the info on how they handle problems.
    
    Personally, anything large I try to mail-order within potential driving
    distance if things get hairy [by driving distance I mean within a few
    states at most so if things were *that* bad I could pay them an
    unfriendly visit].
    
    George
    

    Haven't dealt with Montgomery Grant, but would like to make a general
    observation about NYC-area electronics dealers.  If you look in
    the Northeast advertising section of _Byte_, or in the Sunday _New
    York Times,_ some of the prices look too good to be true.  They
    are, as more or less mandatory add-ons are listed as options.  If
    the M.G. price looks good, be sure of exactly what you're getting.
    
    Also, read the fine print. For example, Computer Factory, an NYC chain,
    has a few stores in Massachusetts.  When they first opened, I went to
    have a look, and bought a magazine.  On the back of the "sales
    contract," which they made me sign, was a clause saying that all
    returns and refunds would be handled through their main office in
    Manhattan.  This occurred two years ago, and the company may have
    changed their policies since, but if something goes wrong, make
    sure you can get it taken care of easily.
    
    It's also true that the lower the price, the less dealer support
    you can expect. 

    Montgomery Grant has hopefully cleaned up their act.  If I'm not
    mistaken, they were charged by the state of NY for "stripping" or
    whatever the term is for removing stuff from packages and then selling
    it back to you.  For example, removing the AC adapter from a camcorder
    and then selling it to you as an add-on.  As long as you know what's
    supposed to come with whatever you ordered, I suspect you are safe. 
    They certainly do have attractive prices.
    
    -tl

    I've already decided against Montegomery Grant.  $1399 is a good
    price for the A2000, but they want 5% for shipping UPS ground and
    10% for a fast ship.  I would want the fast ship so that makes the
    price $1539.  For that much I might as well get it at Omnitek or
    Software Shop...  Moe doesn't have any A2000s in right now.
    
    Also, the Microbotics Hardframe seems to be impossible to get right
    now.  Does anyone else sell a hard card without the hard disk on it?
    Anyone familiar with the IVS Trumpcard?  If I don't find anything
    else I may get the GVP hardcard with the 40Mb quantum drive but
    it does seem a bit pricey.  The drive is a Quantum Prodrive 40S
    and can be had separately for about $445.  This means I'd be paying
    about $375-400 for the card.  Anyone have one of these?  I don't think
    GVP sells the card separately.

    thanks for the help,
        
    steve m

Steve,

o Where have you seen the Quantum 40 Meg for 445?  That's not too bad.

o You can get the Pacific Peripherals Overdrive controller (HardCard)
  without a drive, but the HardFrame is supposedly faster.

o I called Microbotics and they said that they were shipping again and
  dealers should be receiving HardFrames by next week.


					...richard

    I used to order from Abel and had no problems until I ordered the
    Microbotics M501 512k memory expansion. Abel sent me 2 instead of 1 and
    charged me for both. It took me months to get it straightened out. I also
    got tired of always getting a busy signal when I called. I now order
    from ComputAbility. Their prices are almost as good as Abel's and I don't
    get busy signals. I haven't purchased any hardware from them, only software.
    
    Tom

    re: .12
    
    The $445 price was from Arrow supply.  I doubt if they are even
    the lowest around.  They are the only place I called.
    
    1-800-93-ARROW
    
    If you call this number they will transfer you to the local rep.
    They are a very large distributor, and are willing to ship
    single units or in quantity for a small discount.  I believe she
    told me that if ordered 5+ of the quantum drives there would be
    a $15 discount on each.
    
    But Microbotics says THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH THE QUANTUM 40 MEG
    DRIVE AND THE HARDFRAME.  They told me the Quantum 80Meg has no
    problem.  Also, I'm not sure what this means, but I called
    Microbotics one morning to ask whether the Quantum 40S was
    compatible with the Hardframe and the person I spoke with said
    "the expert on the Hardframe is Mike Pinson, he will be in
    this afternoon.  There's been a new revision of the software and he
    is the one who knows whether or not the board works with the
    Quantum 40S."  I called that afternoon and the person I spoke
    with said "Mike Pinson left the company yesterday."
    
    - steve

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga
Path: decwrl!ucbvax!pasteur!ames!nrl-cmf!ukma!gatech!hubcap!rchampe
Subject: How I got screwed by Montgomery Grant. (very long)
Posted: 18 Feb 89 22:11:13 GMT
Organization: Clemson University, Clemson, SC
 
 
     This is part one of the story of how a mail order house by the name
of Montgomery Grant, pissed me off.
     Although I generally don't like ordering hardware mail order,  I
decided to mail order an Amiga 2000 because I'm a college student in the
middle of nowhere with no transportation.  I started calling places that
looked big enough to trustworthy, but everyone I called either didn't have
one but had great prices, or had plenty of them but wanted an arm and a leg
for one.  I eventually went through my AmigaWorld calling everyone I came
across until I got to Montgomery Grant.  Not only did they have one, but
they only wanted $1399.  They had a full page, multicolored ad, so I said
"what the hell" and ordered one.  Well for shipping and handling, they 
wanted $139 for UPS ground, and $200 for UPS 2nd day air.  This seemed
outrageously high to me, but since it still came out less than what everyone
else was selling one for, I aggreed.  Also, since when I buy something,
I get impatient and want it NOW, not a week from now, I had them send it
2nd day air.
     This is what I got:  The Amiga 2000 box was mailed inside another
box, but, there were spots where labels had been cut off the top, probably
shipping labels.  The box had obviously been opened.  Inside, the manuals
were still wrapped, maybe rewrapped, but that was the only thing that appeared
new.  The mouse was obviously used; the pads were slightly worn, the cable
was dirty, the ball was dirty, and the rollers inside the mouse were dirty.
Not only that, but the mouse is appearently an Amiga 500 mouse.  The connector
looks like the connector on an Amiga 1000 mouse without the right angle.
The problem with this is that connector is too big to fit through the hole
on the front of the 2000.  It won't even get close to the socket which is
recessed inside the case.  I have a friend with a 2000, and the connectors
do not even look simmilar.
     The 2000 came with kickstart 1.2, which was dissappointing, because I
thought that they were being shipped with 1.3, in fact other mail order houses 
were advertising that, also I wanted to be able to autoboot the hard disk
I ordered from someone else.  Looking on the box, I found a sticker saying
it had kickstart 1.3.  Looking closer at both the box and the unit, I 
discover that the serial number on the box dosen't match the one on the
unit.  Looking closer at the unit, I notice the fan is very dusty, dust that
takes many hours, possibly days of running to collect.  The bottom of the
frame was noticably bent, making it rock back and forth on the table.
I connected my monitor to it and turned it on and find that it gets many
read/write errors while booting, although it can read the disk some of time,
because if you cancel the requesters with AMIGA-B you eventually get to a
prompt and can do things like directories, well, at least some of the time.
It's not the disk I used because I tried the workbench 1.2 that came with it,
the workbench 1.3 that I bought for my 1000, and a copy of that disk.  All
of these work fine on my 1000 but not on the 2000.  Of course, this is no
suprise, since they neglected to put the cardboard insert into the drive to
protect the head.  I imagine that the head got knocked out of alignment.
     In my opinion, they sent me either a floor model, or a warrenty return.
This pisses me off because they did not tell me this in their ad or on the
phone, and I'm not sure they're allowed to sell a used computer as a new one
without informing the buyer.  Regardless, its going back because it doesn't 
work.  This really pisses me off because like I said, I'm impatient, when I get
the idea to buy something, I want it NOW!  If I have them send me a new one,
I'm going to have to wait several days for them to send a return slip for it,
4 to 7 days for it to get to them, several days for them to piddle around,
and another 4 to 7 days for the new one to come.  And how do I know they 
won't send me a used one again?
    I can't call them until monday, and between now and then, I'm going to
ask around about my rights.  I know I can make them replace it, but what
I'm considering telling them that to take back their computer and that I'm
going to cancel my visa bill.  Several people have told me to try
Computer Direct.  I would have called them but they didn't advertise in 
AmigaWorld.  I just found their ad today in Computer Shopper.
     Although it won't make much of a difference, I'm going to vent my anger
by sending a letter relating my story to AmigaWorld, Commodore, and any
other magazine I happen to see their ad in.  Yes, I know, I could be over
reacting a little, but I'm not a happy person.
 
Rich Champeaux
Clemson University

    Steve,
    
    	I would call Visa right now! Tell them what happened see if they
    can give you any advise as to how to handle the situation.
    
    	I had a friend who had got taken buy one of those Vitamin
    companies. You know, buy $300.00 dollars worth of vitamins and receive
    a gift, either a car, $5000 bond, or a family entertainment center.
    Well he ordered and he received the family entertainment center, a
    cheap stereo unit with a small tv, cassette, turntable & speakers. What
    he did when Ups delivered, was open the package while the Ups guy was
    there and then once he saw what he got he REFUSED the package. The Ups
    guy took it back and sent it back to the company. Then he got on the
    phone called Visa and told them what happened and they canceled the
    charge. You could also call Ups and see if you can still refuse the
    package. I once did, after receiving a package while I was not home. I
    took it to Ups a few days later and said I wanted to refuse this
    package and they took it back.
    
    Good Luck. 
    
    				-Paul
    
    Also, I suspect they took there 1.3 copies out and sold them for $25.00
    to someone who wanted the upgrade. I suspect Moe at the Software Shop
    is doing this, as my friend just recently bought a 500. I asked Moe,
    in the shop if it had 1.3 WB, he said "yes". Well we got to his house
    and opened it up and it had 1.2WB. Moe can be a real A**hole sometimes.
    I won't buy any thing from him again unless it is sealed tight in an
    unopened wrap. I also suspect him of selling returns like they were
    new. Which sounds like what happened to you Steve.
    
    	You could also call the Attorney Generals office they can be quite
    helpful in informing you of your rights. Once again good luck.
                             

    
    Fortunately that wasn't me in .15.  That was a message posted to
    USENET recently.  I should have mentioned that for those of you
    who aren't USENET readers.  The poster's address, etc, is at the
    top of the message.
    
    Thanks for the advice though.  I will probably by the A2000 from
    Moe in the Software Shop so I'll be careful...
    
    regards,
        
    steve m

    
    RE: .16
    
    I had similar problems with THE SOFTWARE SHOP in Worcester, MA.
    I think the prices there are good, but Moe (the owner) is dishonest
    and rude.  The last time I dealt with Moe, he sold me a Midi interface
    that was listed in his ads for $52 for $55.  There was a copy of
    the ad on the counter when he was writing up the bill, but I TRUSTED
    him to charge the the correct price.  This is the last time I will
    deal with The Software Shop.
    
    =Mike=
    

    As far as Montgomery Grant goes, the problems becomes even more
    fuzzy.  I have found out that they aren't even an Authorized Dealer
    for the Commodore products anymore.  My guess is the prices you
    are seeing are closeouts to get rid of the product.  Have no idea
    of their MG's committment to the customer but Commodore's response
    might be interesting to hear. 

    
    One more experience/warning, I bought a Spririt 2.5 meg internal
    RAM expansion for the A500 from CREATIVE COMPUTERS in Calif.  The
    ad said $149.  When I called up, the salesperson said $149.  He
    also said that it was in stock and take 2 days to process in the
    store.  Needless to say, it was not in stock.  I had to call a second
    time a week later before they would send it.   And, after it arrived,
    the bill said $249 !!!!!!  I called them up the next day.  Their
    explaination was that it was a Christmas special (the ad is still
    running now with at $149 price).  My Visa has been charged $249+
    shipping.  Only after 10 phone calls, Creative Computers said that
    a credit is being processed (I'll believe it when I see it in my
    Visa statements).
    
    Mail Oreder Morals:
    
    1.      Never buy from a mail order house that can not promise same
    		day shipping.
    2.	    Never, Never, Never buy from a mail order house that can
    		promise that a item is "in stock".
    3.	    If you are over-charged, call the mail order house and
    		specifically ask for the "person in charge of credits"
    		or "the owner".  AND call your credit card company
    		immediately!!  (I waited too long on both items)
    4.	    When ordering cables, ask the salesperson to describe the
   		end connectors in detail before placing your order.
    
    
    =Mike=
    
    (who unlike most had good/fair experience with Abel Supplies)

    I would also like to offer advice about mail order companies in
    general:  if you are sending a money order, send a US Postal Service
    money order.  Then if the mail order companies tries to screw with
    your dough, it becomes mail fraud which is a felony, and the US
    government doesn't take too kindly to such businesses.  Using a
    credit card has similar security, because you can cancel the payment
    on the order.  However, mail order companies can still give credit
    card companies the runaround ("He's not in right now, can I take
    a message and have him get back to you?"), but they usually don't
    mess with the Federal government.
    
    			-Just a hint...
    

There are bad reports about LYCO and CMO in today's STREPORT.

It is claimed that LYCO is lying to it's customers that ask to by
1040ST's.  1040st's are not to be sold mail order (Atari has a
no-mail-order policy on these systems), LYCO tells people the 1040 is
discontinued, in order to sell them something else.

CMO's problem is that if they tell you that you are getting a refund,
you can expect to wait indefinitely for it to arrive.  The incidient
reported had something to do with returning a damaged monitor.

Path: shlump.nac.dec.com!decuac!haven!purdue!mailrus!sharkey!cfctech!teemc!mibte!jbh
From: [email protected] (James Harvey)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga
Subject: Re: Mail Order Companies
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Date: 11 Nov 89 14:55:43 GMT
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Distribution: usa
Organization: Michigan Bell Telephone Company
Lines: 43

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Joel Swan) writes:
> In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Sun Kun
> Kim) writes:
> :I got my Amiga 2000 from Montgomery Grant.(and I also own a C-64 back
> :home)  I got my computer about 3 months ago and it came in about 2
> :weeks.  Their prices are cheap but I do have some criticisms.  First of
>
> Uh oh....
>
> [lots of criticisms of MG cut]
>
> :P.S. I read somewhere that Amigas are warranted for only 90 days.
> :That's strange, because on my Amiga 2000's waraanty card, it said that
> :my computer was warranted for ONE YEAR!
>
> Uh, hope you don't feel too bad, but your computer is actually warranted for
> 0 months, 0 days.
>
> You see, after Mongomery Grant has been doing wrong to C-A, they were
> dumped as official dealers and are in big trouble.  Any machines sold
> by MG will not have their warranties honored.  They have been under-cutting
> C-A dealers by selling grey market Amigas (bought from failing dealers, etc)
> and selling used machines as new.  Dealers have been specifically told NOT
> to touch any machines bought from MG.  C-A will not touch them either.
> Of course, MG won't touch them after they're out the door either.
> Is your warranty a Canadian warranty?  If it is, you probably won't get it
> fixed by a US dealer as well.
>
> The bottom line?  STAY AWAY FROM MONTGOMERY GRANT.  They are cheating,
> thieves that should be run out of business completely.
>
> Joel

MCS in Livonia Mich. is in the same circumstances.

--

Jim Harvey                        |      "Ask not for whom the bell
Michigan Bell Telephone           |      tolls and you will only pay
29777 Telegraph                   |      Station-to-Station rates."
Southfield, Mich. 48034           |

ulysses!gamma!mibte!jbh

Re: .23

>> You see, after Mongomery Grant has been doing wrong to C-A, they were
>> dumped as official dealers and are in big trouble.  Any machines sold
>> by MG will not have their warranties honored.

Evidently, Mongomery Grant has never been an Authorized Amiga dealer.
They've gotten all their machines by buying up the stock of real dealers
who have gone out of business.  Since Mongomery Grant isn't a dealer,
machine sold by them have the same status as a machine sold by me.
If I bought an Amiga, never opened the box, and then sold it, it would
be a used machine and not under warranty.

    	My general experience with mail order is good; and is usually the
    way I'll buy something unless the price is close to a store's price
    and it's in stock, or I may need major support help (like with a
    disk drive installation). Most all of my software purchases are
    mail order. My 2000 system and monitor were also mail order.
    
    
    After scanning this note, USENET postings, and including my personal
    experiences, I have come up with the following chart:
    
    
    
    COMPANY		 RATING		COMMENTS
    ------------------   -------------  ---------------------------------    

    Go Amigo!		 Very Good	One bad experience reported
					on USENET; all others give
    					exceptional reports.
    
    ABEL		 OK		Don't place an order if item
					is not in stock!
    
    RSI			 Good
    
    Computer Mart	 Poor
    
    Computer Mail Order	 Good		Also called CMO. Large and well
					established mail order house for
    					most all PC's and home computers.
    					Is sometimes the first to get a new
    					item in. Can be slow in returning a
    					refund or when out-of-stock.
    
    Computer Surplus, CA OK
    
    Timeline, CA	 OK
    
    Computer Factory, NY poor
    
    Montgomery Grant	 Bad		See previous replies
    
    MCS			 Very bad	All USENET users agreed.
    
    Software Shop, MA	 poor		See previous replies
    
    Creative Computers	 poor
    
    LYCO		 ???
    
    Lightspeed		 Bad		A USENET opinion.
    
    Safe Harbor		 Very Good	Known for their friendliness,
					and for their replacement of returned
    					merchandise.
    
    
 Ratings: Best, great, very good, good, OK, questionable, poor, bad, very bad
    
    
    There are others I believe (BRINWAL for example); let's add and update this
    list and perhaps pick a BEST place. Comments and indications for
    pricing would also help out. Perhaps we should start a company
    list as well (NewTek, Lattice, etc) for best products and support?

    I bought my Seagate hard drive from LYCO.  I recently returned it
    to them, due to problems I'd been having.  I would say that they are
    a good company to deal with.  They have exchanged the ST-277N for
    a ST-277N-1 (for a $10 upgrade fee), and they _do_ turn the items
    around in 48 hours.  
    
    The only 'problem' was trying to explain why my Amiga wasn't running
    MS-DOS 4.0, to one of the support people.  The other people seemed
    quite good, and even knew what an Amiga was. (Not expected since 
    LYCO caters to the PC crowd.)
    
    I recently received Turbo Silver (as a Christmas present), and I 
    believe it was ordered from a place called 'AAmiga'.  I haven't dealt
    with them personally, but no complaints from the giver.
    
    ~Steve

    I recently placed an order for some Christmas items from Computability
    (Milwaukee, WI). They had told me it would take 7-10 days; order arrived
    in about that time. 4 of the 5 items were in stock, the 5th (rather than
    placing on backorder was marked as "not in stock - item cancelled" on 
    the invoice, so I wasn't made to wait for it). Their prices were very
    reasonable (comparable to Abel) & I got through to them on their 800
    number on the first try. Shipping is a straight $3.00 per order, no
    charge for Visa/MC. Very pleasant to deal with, so a thumbs up from me.

							-Dom

    The best service that I've received from a mail order house is from
    Safe Harbor, Waukesha, WI.  They deliver when they are supposed to, and
    if there is ANY complication with the order they will call you and let
    you know.  Their prices are approx. 2-5% higher than Abel's but for
    good service I will pay it.
    
    I ordered the Lattice C Dev kit (V5.04) and Shadow of the Beast from
    Abel(thru their BBS) on a Thursday afternoon (Pacific time).  I
    received a call from Abel Monday saying that they didn't have Lattice
    5.04 in stock but their supplier did and would I like to have it from
    them(?).  I said yes and received Lattice and Shadow the NEXT day.  I
    wasn't charged for next day air from UPS either.  That is good service.
    
    
    mark

    I have to differ strongly about LightSpeed.  I have had nothing but
    very good experiences with them.   They have an efficient system, the
    people actually seem to know something about Amigas, and they ship
    things in a timely manner.  Their prices are not as low as say Abel,
    but I've always gotten much better treatment.  It's worth it to me.
    I've bought both hardware and software and haven't had a problem yet. 
    (As a matter of fact, I have a Supra RAM 2M/8M board on order at this
    very moment.  3M here we come!)
    
    My experience with Go Amigo is limited, but I wouldn't class it as very
    good. I'd give it a "good."  (The last time I ordered from them was
    over three years ago, so they may have improved their prices since
    then.) 
    
    I would give Abel a bad rating despite the low prices.  The poor
    treatment that I recieved soured me on Abel. (They claimed a drive was
    in stock, and then took 2 months to send it.  Bleah!)
    
    CMO is only OK.  Their prices are high, though I admit that the
    operation in very efficient.  Watch for "hidden" charges.  They accept
    AmEx but tack on a 2% or 3% charge if you use it.  Feh.
    
    
    Gary

          I would tend to agree with -.1 about Abel as I had a bad
    experience with them earlier in the year when I ordered some stuff
    while I was in the States.
    
    I stressed to them it had to be delivered before a particular date as I
    was only in the country for a limited time and also made sure
    everything I ordered was in stock.
    
    The bottom line was I didn't get the goods delivered, had to waste my
    time to find alternative sources at short notice and WORST of all spent
    considerable time and effort trying to get my money back after my
    return to Australia. I eventually got it back, NOT because after 3-4
    International phone calls (expensive) to Abel but by taking it up with
    the Bank that manages the plastic card I use.
    
    Blah to Abel.
    
    Regards
    	Mike

    	I took the liberty of processing the past few replies and modified
    the list to reflect the opinions. Rather than just "changing" a
    rating, I upgraded or downgraded it 1 or 2 points (I didn't change
    Go Amigo from "Very Good" because it had exceptional results on USENET;
    plus there are currently no "great" firms listed).
    
        Also, since there are a large number of people on USENET and here
    claiming fantastic service from Safe Harbor (and not 1 horror story
    yet), I took the liberty of naming it Best (I'll have to order
    something from them myself). The ratings are more for
    comparison rather than an opinion of the company itself.
    
    
    COMPANY		 RATING		COMMENTS
    ------------------   -------------  ---------------------------------    

    Safe Harbor		 Best		Known for their friendliness,
    					quick delivery, and for their
    					replacement of returned merchandise.
    
    Go Amigo!		 Very Good	One bad experience reported
					on USENET; all others gave
    					*exceptional* reports.
    
    ABEL		 Good		Don't place an order if item
					is not in stock!
    
    Computer Mail Order	 Fair		Also called CMO. Large and well
					established mail order house for
    					most all PC's and home computers.
    					Is often the first to get a new
    					item in. Can be slow in returning a
    					refund or when out-of-stock.
					Watch for "hidden" charges when
					using credit cards.

    Computability	 Good
        
    LYCO		 Good
    
    RSI			 Good
    
    Lightspeed		 OK		1 good experience reported, 1 bad
    
    Computer Surplus, CA OK

    Timeline, CA	 OK
    
    Computer Mart	 Poor
    
    Computer Factory, NY poor
    
    Software Shop, MA	 Poor		See previous replies
    
    Creative Computers	 Poor
    
    Montgomery Grant	 Bad		See previous replies
    
    MCS			 Very bad	All USENET users agreed.
    
    BRINWAL		 ??
    
    
 Ratings: (based on pricing, service, reliability, and customer
          satisfaction)
    
    	Best		Goes beyond the call of duty to provide customer
    			satisfaction. Good prices (not necessarily the
			lowest), exceptional delivery, hassle-free returns,
    			no bad experiences reported. Caller usually
    			treated great. Items almost always in stock.
			Highly Reliable.
        
    	Great 		High customer satisfaction, good prices,
			great return/refund practices, timely delivery, no
    			bad experiences reported. Caller usually treated
    			great. Most items in stock. Very Reliable.
        
    	Very Good	Above average customer satisfaction, good prices,
    			timely delivery, good return/refund practices, 1
    			or no bad experiences reported. Caller treated
			well. Most items in stock. Very Reliable.
        
    	Good		High customer satisfaction, good prices,
			good delivery and return practices, 2 or less
    			bad experiences reported. Items mostly in stock.
			Caller usually treated well. Reliable.
    
    	Fair		Good customer satisfaction, good prices,
			acceptable delivery and return/refund practices,
        		few bad experiences reported. Items mostly in
			stock. Caller usually treated well. Reliable.
    
    	OK		Acceptable prices, delivery, and return/refund
    			practices. Several bad experiences reported. Items
    			often in stock. Caller may or may not be treated
    			well. Recommend only in cases where lowest price
    			is more important than service.
                    
    	Poor		Not recommended except as a possible last resort.
    			May have poor delivery, poor or no handling of
    			returns/refunds, or no "C.O.D." orders. May have
    			low prices. The reported "good" experiences out
    			number the "bad" experiences. Items may or may not
    			be in stock. Caller sometimes treated rudely.
    			Unreliable.
        
    	Bad		Not recommended. Reported "bad" experiences out
    			number the "good". May have high prices, poor or
    			no handling of returns/refunds, slow delivery,
    			rude employees, many "out of stock" items, or
			no "C.O.D." orders. Unreliable.
    
    
    	Very Bad	Not recommended. Very few or no "good" reports. May
			have high prices, rude employees, poor or no
    			return/refund policy, slow delivery, many
    			"out of stock" items, or no "C.O.D." orders.
			Not reliable.

    I ordered from ABEL using the BBS, and the results were always
    excellent, if my order had an item back ordered, I got partial shipment
    with the rest coming a few days later.  Using the BBS, I could easealy
    check the progress of my orders.  Ordering from Montreal to the US is
    sometimes a chalenge, I give ABEL good marks (A+).
    
    I also ordered once from LIGHTSPEED (my freinds ordered from them too)
    and they deserve the name they have chosen, very fast delivery (less
    than a week for my genlock, even if UPS was in the picture!)
    
    I give good marks to Progressive Peripherals & Software, I reported a
    bug with diskmaster, and got a new version within a week.  Also a
    software package I bought from ABEL was missing the program disk even
    though the bag was sealed, ABEL told me to write to them first, and
    their answer was a program disk in the mail, no questions asked.
    
    The only bug that we get ordering from here, is when UPS is used as a
    carrier, it seems that the person that orders the stuff MUST be
    contacted by voice within a couple of days, otherwise the package goes
    back, and then trouble starts (UPS says it went back, the distributor
    doesn't know if it arrived.....)
    
    Jean
    

    I just got off the phone with Computer Mail Order - they are
    discontinuing the stocking and sale of COMMODORE AMIGA items (although
    there are still some items in stock). It was unclear if this only
    applied to COMMODORE manufactured items or all AMIGA specific products
    from any manufacturer; although I got the impression that it applied
    to ALL AMIGA products. The reason given:
    
    "We are discontinuing the AMIGA line because COMMODORE announced
    their intention to discontinue the sale of AMIGA products through
    mail order."
    
    We heard it was coming. Now the question is "will all or most mail
    order houses drop the AMIGA"? I'll have to stock up on products
    now, as my "local" stores don't carry everything and the prices
    are higher.

>It was unclear if this only
>    applied to COMMODORE manufactured items or all AMIGA specific products
>    from any manufacturer; although I got the impression that it applied
>    to ALL AMIGA products.

Although they may have become angry and decided to drop all AMIGA products,
I doubt it would make sense based on Commodore's policy. There seem to be
lots of mail order houses that don't sell (or at least don't advertise)
Commodore products, but sell lots of related products. So you can't buy
the Amiga, the bridge board the Commodore controllers, drives and boards mail
order.  That still leaves a lot of hardware and software available mail order. 

Commodore is trying to get rid of the grey market mail order places that
sell you something at a discount but do not honor warrantees.  That is
not necessarily a disservice to us as customers. It is definitely 
inconvenient to people who live far from a dealer, but I haven't seen
mail order deals on Commodore hardware that are dramatically different
from what a dealer will give you. The Massachusetts/NH area does have some
dealer competition to keep prices lowish. It may be different other places.

Is there a bigger deal here that I am missing?

Dave

    Re: -.1
    
    No, acutally I believe they mean ALL AMIGA products. I called and
    the first words I spoke were "I'd like to ask about the cost and
    availability of an AMIGA product", the the answer back was:
    
    "We don't sell AMIGA"  click
    
    
    The next time I called, I got a different person who stated that
    they don't carry AMIGA products anymore but there are still a few
    left over from existing stock. Again, I was not asked if it was
    a COMODORE manufactured item beforehand.
    
    
    
    I guess this means that CMOgets removed from the ratings chart.

Re: .35

It is a bit surprising to see a mail order company drop all products
for the Amiga just because Commodore will no longer sell Commodore
products.

I don't think that this is part of a trend:  After all, all mail order
companies that sell Mac products get by without being able to sell any
Apple products.

>After all, all mail order
>companies that sell Mac products get by without being able to sell any
>Apple products.

Exactly! And the new honcho(s) at Commodore came from Mac land where they
saw the policy work.

Dave 

    
    From what I read, Commodore is trying to crack down on the "gray
    market" mail order houses that buy up Amigas (and other hardware) at
    cost from dealers who ordered too many.  They re-sell the hardware at
    substantial discounts, thus undercutting the "regular" dealers.
    
    - snopes