Conference hydra::amiga_v1

    This caught my eye also (the ad is in the current issue of Your
    Amiga here in the UK) the thing offers 12 slots ! Plug in a bridge
    board and you're left with 4 PC slots and six A2000 slots. Price
    was somewhere around $500. Seems a much better expansion path than
    the PP Subsystem.
    
    				Alan T.

    That's the Bill's Boards expander chassis.  Seems to me it's way
    overpriced for a motherboard with connectors plus a bridge board
    with a handful of interface ICs.  The "bridge" is not smart - it's
    NOT the same as the Commodore Bridgeboard.  Plus you have to spend
    $100 or more to get a power supply and case for this thing??
    
    Perhaps now that Amiga is at the critical mass of one million units
    sold, we'll see fewer garage-shop kludges like this.

    re: 2 from .0  [A flame on the general scene]
    
    Well... Give me a name of a good expansion then.  Hard Drives are
    kludges also.  Abels' 277n(Supra) cheapee is $790.  The box and
    power is between $50-70 from ads' in Computer Shopper.
    
    Turlin has a SCSI drive kit for $710.  I'd rather expand into a
    "kludge box" and then drop a drive into it.  I bought a used C-Ltd drive 
    that sent my A1000 into the repair shop recently.  I've got expension
    memory that can be placed into the expansion box also.  Stacking
    on the side is not what I need or want.
    
    The whole "AT" thing for the 2000 is dead anyway.  One million
    units won't change that.  I'll trade-in my 1000 for a 2500 or buy
    a PS/2 next.  Sheesh, after the sidecar and MSDOS emulator was dropped,
    I don't trust Commodore for expansion or MSDOS compatibility.
    
    [End-of-flame] 
                                                 

    Wish I could give you the name of a good A1000 expansion.  The choices
    seem to be between bad and none.  Sigh...

    
    according to the comments on usenet, that Bill's Boards expansion
    motherboard does indeed work.  The problem is that it throws out
    a lot of RF.  But isn't that expansion sortof what is described
    in the A1000 expansion spec? (a card cage instead of multiple slap-ons)
    
    If the price is too high compared to the price for the parts, why
    doesn't he have any competition from the other A1000 add-on vendors?  
    They all seem to want to do slap-ons instead.
    
    I suspect the real problem is that by the time you figure out how
    much it will cost to upgrade an A1000 to A2000 capabilities, add
    in the hassle of getting it to work, and realize now you would have
    two big boxes on your desk, you will find that the CBM stole a lot of
    that potential market away during the A1000-to-A2000 trade-in program. 
    
    Unless, of course, those used A1000 have all found new homes that
    want expansion :-)  (mine could use a nice 4 meg RAM internal expansion
    board, using 1 meg chips, might be nice to also have an internal
    SCSI adapter)  Hmmm... is there any room on that Lucas 68020 board
    for stuff like that?
    
    -Dave

    I'm still optimistic...  I'm now checking into Twin-x and
    mini-expanders for the 2000.

    I'm curious to know.... 
    
    How many A1000 owners would be REALLY interested in a Bill's Boards
    type of solution if the box and power suply came with it all ready
    to plug in? 
    
    What about A500 owners...what if you could have the same solution
    as above and have the motherboard in the box and your keyboard
    detatched?
    
    How much would it be worth and how many people would REALLY buy
    it?
    
    Is there a market?
    

    re: .7
    
    I'm an A1000 owner.  I'd be REALLY interested if it could pass the
    FCC RF tests.  Both the A1000 and A500 could use a good expansion
    box, preferably one that offers a lot more slots than an A2000.
    It should be advertised as "a slot box that even has a cpu slot".
    They should avoid comparing it to upgrading to an A2000.  Hmm...what
    if they figured out a way to extend the bus on an A2000 so that
    it can use that slot box for additional slots (isn't the cpu slot
    on the A2000 motherboard similar to the 86pin expansion connector?)
    
    -Dave

I'd be interested if:

	1. It were as reliable as a real A2000
	2. It plus my whole A500 cost significantly less than a real A2000
	3. It looked reasonable

John

    When the A1000 expansion bus was changed to the A500/2000 bus, the
    interrupt priority level (IPL) lines were changed to three independent
    interrupt inputs.  So, an external processor cannot respond to some
    of the interrupts caused by hardware inside the main unit.  Ergo,
    no A500 expansion CPU slot.  Sorry.

    I guess I don't understand what you're trying to say. It sounds  
    to me to me that if you have a CPU expansion available on the 2000
    you have one for the 500 as well....
    
    I would like to get a real good feel for how many of you are SERIOUS
    about an expansion box. If I were a 1000 owner I'd rather spend
    say $500 to get 2000 capabilies(maybe not all) than sell it for
    $400.
    
    Rate the following issues in order of importance for BOTH the 1000
    and 500! AND....How much are you willing to pay for it in $$$...
    ...assuming the box and power suply is included...one box or original
    box with second underneath...
    
    	number of 100pin 2000 compatible slots...(how many needed really)
    
    	number of IBM slots needed

    	keyboard seperated from box (500)
        
    	CPU slot
    
    	internal video slot...
    
    Lets be realistic all of this costs money...
    
    I'd really like to get a feel for this if you all don't mind. Please!
    It should also be assumed that quality and neat packaging is a given.
    This is just a test to see if there is really a market. No one is
    committing anything here! But I'd like to get these inputs from
    those who are genuinely serious. Lets face it we'd all like to have
    an amiga 3000 at 64 prices!!! 8^)
    
    			Thanks, Tom
    

    
    
    re .11
    
    Amiga 1000
    
    Zerro I slots	  - min 2 like 3
    2000 compatible slots - min 4 best 6
    IBM slots		  - none
    CPU			  - not needed
    video		  - not needed
    
    	I was ready to give ASDG $750 for one.
    

    re: .11 and .10
    
    Sorry, I could have chosen my words more carefully.  Because the IPL
    lines are not available on the A500 expansion bus, there is _no way_ to
    make an expansion box with a working CPU slot for the A500.  Unless you
    want to hack the insides of the A500, that is. In the A2000 the signals
    on the CPU slot are different from the ordinary slots.
    
    Something like the Bill's Boards expander with power supply and
    cabinet for the current product's boards-only price would get my
    money. 
    
    Wes

    
number of 100pin 2000 compatible slots		4
number of IBM slots needed			0
keyboard seperated from box (500)		yes (if the 500 sits on top of
						     this expander)
CPU slot					yes (but not doable for 500)
    
internal video slot...				yes (but can do without)

    For an A500, I'd pay $200-$300 for:
    
    Number of 2000 slots	4
    Number of IBM slots		0
    Separate keyboard (500)	Nice but not a requirement
    CPU Slot			Probably not feasible,  but nice if so
    Internal Video Slot		Yes is possible
    
    Personally I'm not interested in packaging or neatness but reliability
    is really important.  I'd put one together myself if I had an etched board and
    instructions.  The above price is the absolute maximum I'd pay for
    something that seems a simple as a case, empty circuit board with some
    connectors, and a power supply.
    
    -tl

Re: .11

>    	internal video slot...

The video signals do not appear on the expansion connector of a 500
or 1000.  So, unless you are going to do some heavy hacking on the
motherboard (not feasible for a commercial product), you can't
provide a 2000-style video slot.

Expansion Chassis-500(PEC2510) ---- Phoenix Electronics ---72 $199.95 $139.70
Expansion Chassis1000(PEC2110)02/89 Phoenix Electronics ----- $199.95 $139.70
ExpansChasW/Power-500(PEC2520) ---- Phoenix Electronics ----- $299.95 $191.16
ExpansChasW/Power1000(PEC2120)02/89 Phoenix Electronics ----- $299.95 $191.16

    These are quotes from Abel Supply.  Anyone know if these are the
    expansions dreamed-of in the past replies?

    Actually they aren't!
    
    They are a two slot version with or without a power supply.
    Although, the two slots are 100pin A2000's
    

    re:.17
    
    but they are real, not vapor.  I actually touched one in the Memory
    Location.  Would be better if it had 4 slots, to allow room for
    expansion.  But 2 will allow you to plug in the 8 meg memory
    board and a SCSI controller.  But then where do you plug in the
    multiple serial port board? :-)  Hmmm... better wait for the
    multifunction board with serial ports and scsi.
    
    The drawback is the size of the box.  Not too much they could do
    about that if they wanted the cards to stand vertically.
    
    -Dave

    
    or a networking board! :-)
    
    brad
    

    Tom Senna pestered me about my "no CPU slot on an A500" statement,
    and, after some reflection, I would change my "no" to a "maybe."
    Turns out that the 100-pin expansion card connector has changed
    to eliminate the IPL lines, meaning you can't put a CPU accelerator
    card on an ordinary card.  But the 86-pin expansion bus connector
    has NOT really changed from the A1000 to the A500.  Note that this
    expansion bus is not the same as the A2000 CPU slot bus, but only
    close.  So maybe, just maybe, with some external logic, you could
    put a processor accelerator like the A2620 in an A500 expansion
    box.
    
    I was wrong.  Sorry for the misinformation.
    
    Wes

    re:.20
    
    you add networking the same way you add ethernet to a MAC, get
    a SCSI to Ethernet box.
    
    -Dave