Conference hydra::amiga_v1

    Yeah!
    
    Sorry, can't get there from here.... I've already talked to
    them about this and they said that the subsystem is only 1.5"
    deep. But you can make the drive external!!! I was just as disapointed
    as as you are! It was an interesting call though. The person who
    answered the phone knew nothing! She barely could speak the kings
    english. She wasn't an illegal alien or anything. She just knew
    two words ...  uh huh , translated as yes and the compliment of
    that meaning no! I can't even spell those grunts very well!
    
    Good Luck!

    re. .1
    
    What about the possibility of a "Hard Card"?  Are all 3.5" hard
    disks more than 1.5" high?                 
    

    
    GVP (Great Valley Products) makes an external 20 MB SCSI drive/0-2
    MB RAM expander that plugs directly into the A500 expansion buss.
    See AMigaWorld for a picture and prices.  
    
    Commodore also announced an external hard drive for the A500.
                   
    Sounds like you'd really un-prefer an external drive, but these
    are two possibilities anyway.
    
    Ed.
    

    Re. .3
    
    My table (with all of my current devices) may be too small to handle
    an external drive on the left side.  If the Subsystem 500 could
    accept an internal drive such as the GVP Impact, my problem would
    be solved.  I am looking into getting Manx C; a hard disk for my 500
    would be useful...
     

    I just called, and they said no!!!
    
    They tried a hard sell on the GVP product!!

No, all 3.5" disks aren't 1.5" high - At least they won't be.

A particular vendor is making one about 3/4" high and REAL LOW power (like
almost battery driven!).

I'm not sure if this thing is announced so I'd better shut up now!


John

    Re: .-1
    
    Are you sure we are talking about the same thing???
    
    The original  request for info on this , I beleive, was relative
    to a hard drive that was small enough to fit inside the subsystem!
    It sound like you are refering to a floppy type drive...that is
    unless I misunderstood!! Please!!! If you know of a hard drive that
    will fit this subsystem, let us know. I'v been looking and have
    ended up with "NULL","NIL","[]"!!!
    
    At any rate please atleast clarify your statements a little more.
    

Yes. I meant a HARD DRIVE of 20 (and later 40) megabytes. 3.5" form factor
but only 3/4" tall. From the sounds of it it will fit in your box.

I'm not exactly sure if it was 3/4" or 1" tall. In any case, it should fit.

But like I said, this vendor has not announced this product to to world
just yet so I can't say/find_out any more. They showed me one when I was
in California one week...



John

    Current 3 1/2 " hard drives will not fit inside the subsystem 500.
     The internal measurements are even slightly less than 1 1/2 " in
    height.  I have not had good luck at all with the SubSystem.  The
    only peripheral I have been able to have work on it so far is a
    CLtd controller and a A2052, and these are sensitive as to which
    slot they go into ( 2 A2000 slots are in the system).  I could not
    get the pass thru of the expansion bus to work at all.  In calling
    Pacific, I did not get a warm and fuzzy feeling that the person
    handling the support line knew too much at all.  To be fair, I'm
    going to try the Subsystem on another A500 to make sure it really
    is NFG.  Funny, the OverDrive controller works like a champ.  Almost
    seems like the two products wern't made by the same company.
    

    re .8
    
    Can you give us any more specifics like...
    
    	does it support wb 1.3
    	how about autoboot
    	when is it real
    	approx. projected cost
    
    ...without teling us who?
    
    re .9
    
    Yuk! could it be related to poor gound, pwr supl. noise , loading
    phase of the moon ??? Thats it!!! "Pacific Periferals"!!
    Which ocean is nearest you? 8^)
    
    Sorry, I think I killed a few more brain cells than I thought over
    the holiday!!!

    Are all of the "Hard Cards" more than 1.5 inches thick?  If so,
    perhaps the combination of a SCSI controller and one of those "slender"
    3.5 inch drives could do the trick...
    
    P.S. 
    
    How are the A2000 slots arranged in the subsystem 500? Are they
    set vertically or horizontally?
    

    Boards are mounted horizontally, with two removable pannels in the
    rear to allow cables to exit or cage clamps to pass thru.  There
    is also a cover in the front to the right that is removed if you
    add an A2000 style floppy.  There is also another cover on the left
    that covers the expansion pass-thru.
    
    The power supply is external and, although powerful (20A @ 5v),
    looks funky.
    
    John
    

Re: Small drives

The portable computer market has increased the interest in small, light,
low power hard drives.  A 2.5 inch 20 meg drive was recently announced.

The description of the short drive discussed in .8 sounds like it may
be targeted towards that market.

Re: .8

>    	does it support wb 1.3
>    	how about autoboot

These are not properties of drives, but of disk controllers.  The
important question is "Is the drive SCSI or ST-506 compatible?"

Most of the controllers for the Amiga are SCSI.  There are two
ST-506 compatible controllers: Commodore's A2090a and someone else's
ST-506 only controller.  I don't know if the third party controller
is shipping yet.

>    	when is it real
>    	approx. projected cost

I always treat an unannounced product as it it doesn't exist at all.
Even announced products can take a long time to become available.


Re: "Maybe a hard card would fit"

A hard card makes the situation worse, not better.  A hard card is
just a disk controller card with a standard 3.5 inch disk mounted
on it.  The height of such a card is the height of the disk plus the
thickness of the card.  In an Amiga 2000, a hard card takes up two slots
unless it is plugged into the first slot (the disk on the card overhangs
the slot to the right of the card).


Re: Whole Mess

It's a shame that the Pacific Peripherals expansion box doesn't take
a hard disk.  When they first announced it, they stated that it did.
I even think that the demo model they had at AmiExpo a year ago had
a hard drive mounted in it.  (Or more cosmic rays have scrambled my
brain.)

I did some checking. There are 3 companies making "laptop" style 3.5" drives.

One is Conner Peripherals - They are shipping now!!.  The other 2 are
"close".

The capacities are 20Mb.

The hight is 1" for all.  Conners is about 2 Watts!

2.5" drives are about 6 months away. They will also be 20Mb and 1" high.
There are 3 or 4 vendors making them. A company called "Prarie Tech" has
them in a computer mag ad. with protos available in the end of DEC.

I think the cost will be around $300 - not bad!


John

    Re. .14:
    
    Any idea of the cost of the Conner Drive?  Any address or phone
    for these vendors?
    
    Thanks for the research.

	Conner Peripherals
	2221 Old Oakland Rd.
	San Jose, Ca 95131

	(408) 433-3340


I guess you could ask for Marketing or Sales or something like that. I doubt
they handle small quantities but you could get info on who thier distributers
are and how much the drive costs...


Let us know how it goes


John

    I did get in touch with Conner Peripherals and here is the story:
    
    They make a 1 inch high 20 Mb disk; The bad news is the drive has
    an embedded controller which supports the "AT bus" only.  There
    are currrently no plans for a SCSI version.  Apparently, this 
    product is aimed at a specific market (PC compatible laptops). 
    Conner also offers a 40 Mb drive which is SCSI based, however this
    product is exactly 1.5 inches high.  This drive is available from
    Hamilton Avnet for about $500. 
    
    It looks like I will have to explore other products which will allow
    me to put a hard disk on my 500 in the limited space that I have.
    Hopefully, more people have informed Pacific Perpherals of the need
    to have a subsystem which supports a hard disk while maintaining
    the orginal footprint of the 500.
    

    I don't know if this will help you or not?  But I thought I would
    throw it in here.  In the November issue of AmigaUser on page 48
    there is a write up on a A1000 and A500 bus expander.  This features
    six A2000 type slots and six IBM style slots.  It looks like you
    have to cut a few holes in the case for cable's etc and on the A500
    the expansion box sits under the A500 elevating it about six inches.
    It fits in to a AT type case so that would give you some idea about
    the height.   It should have room for the hard card you want but
    you might need to crank your chair up higher.  If you can't find
    the article send me your address and I will send it to you.  The
    company's name is.
    
    Comp-U-Save
    414 Maple Ave.
    Westbury, NY 11590
    phone 516-997-6707
          800-356-9997
    
    Also in Issue 1.3 of AmigoTimes there was an ad for a Bills Boards
    Bus Expander.  Not much information except the it adds six A2000
    type expansion slots to a A500/A1000.    
    
    Their address is:
    Bill's Boards
    9528 Mitramer Rd. Suite 181
    San Diago, Ca 92126
    phone 619-486-0908
    
    
    Alan         
    
    

    Yes, I saw that...but its too much money for the amount of additional
    work you have to do with no idea of how successful you will be!
    I'd rather play the lottery!

    Can someone tell me where I can get a baby AT box and a hefty 200w
    power suply? I'd like to see how much this is going to run me! Also,
    does anyone know where I can get the 2000 keyboard or preferably
    just the case???? Thanks in advance!!!
    

    PC AT/XT/etc cases can be had from 
    
    JAMECO Electronics
    1355 Shoreway Road,
    Belmont, CA  94002
    
    (415)592-8097
    
    Flip top PC case  (JE1010)  34.95
    Flip Top Baby XT case  (JE1014)  69.95
    Flip Top Baby AT case  (JE1019)  69.95
    
    
    John