Conference hydra::amiga_v1

    I think that if it comes up at all, the card is good...are you trying
    to do anything with the RRD??...just a shot in the dark, but on
    my system, i startup a big rrd...IF I have to take of my starboard
    2M card...I get a similar type of behavior due to the rrd.. 
    
    as for the chips...I used something NOT on their list, and so far...no
    problems there....but...see the lates on the wedge for another story...
    
    scott.

    it is possible you don't have a good connection between the
    RF shield on the Starboard and the A1000 RF shield.  The resulting
    noise caused GURUs on my system.  The problem went away when I
    finally got a good connection (used a nearby TV set to determine
    how bad the RF was).  Make sure the A1000 & Starboard are on a level
    surface, the side of the A1000 isn't level so the Starboard could
    be leaning in or out too much.
    
    That seems to match your symptoms - mine passed the diags, booted
    fine, but GURUed when I actually tried to do something with it.
    
    -dave
    

Re: .0, .2

The Starboard diagnostics are not very good.  I have come across several
cases of passing the Starboard diagnostics but the memory causing the
system to crash.

I sold Dave the Starboard in reply .2.  It worked fine at my house on
my system, but crashed his system at his house.  The problem turned out
to be that the grounding problem: My system was on a desk that adequately
supported the Starboard case.  Dave's system was on a slotted coffee
table that allowed the Starboard lean at a funny angle.

The symptoms on Dave's system was that it would boot normally, then guru
slightly later.  However, if you didn't feed the machine a Kickstart
disk within two minutes of the prompt, it would not even read Kickstart.

Dave noticed the memory problems (and the RF noise) went away if he
touched a bit of aluminum foil to both the starboard metal case and
the metal edge of the joystick port.  This grounded the system and
fixed the problems.  In the original, unredesigned Starboard, there
were two large jack screws that connected the Starboard to the Amiga
that also grounded the system and memory box (an obscure line in
the Starboard installation sheet mentioned this fact).  Dave's
problem was that on his table, the starboard case pivoted and didn't
contact the screws.

>The symptoms on Dave's system was that it would boot normally, then guru
>slightly later.  However, if you didn't feed the machine a Kickstart
>disk within two minutes of the prompt, it would not even read Kickstart.

THAT'S IT!!
    
>    Dave noticed the memory problems (and the RF noise) went away if he
>touched a bit of aluminum foil to both the starboard metal case and
>the metal edge of the joystick port.  This grounded the system and
>fixed the problems.  

    Is this on the outside of the case?  How about if I find two small
    screws and put them through like the original design had done? Would
    that help as well?  (Something about relying on a piece of foil
    that may fall off bothers me.)
    
    
>    In the original, unredesigned Starboard, there
>were two large jack screws that connected the Starboard to the Amiga
>that also grounded the system and memory box (an obscure line in
>the Starboard installation sheet mentioned this fact). 

    When I called GO AMIGO, they said that since the jackscrews would
    strip out of the brackets that held them, Microbotics replaced
    them with smaller screws that only go flush with the case.
    

Mark
    

Re: .4

>>    Dave noticed the memory problems (and the RF noise) went away if he
>>touched a bit of aluminum foil to both the starboard metal case and
>>the metal edge of the joystick port.  This grounded the system and
>>fixed the problems.  
>
>    Is this on the outside of the case?  How about if I find two small
>    screws and put them through like the original design had done? Would
>    that help as well?  (Something about relying on a piece of foil
>    that may fall off bothers me.)

The metal edge of the joystick port is accessible from the outside of the
Amiga's case.  I would recommend you first try the foil trick to the if
the grounding is the problem.  If it is, you can then try to find a more
permanent solution.  I would try either larger screws or just taking a
piece of wire, wrapping it around one of the brackets and then attaching
it to the starboard case somewhere.


>    When I called GO AMIGO, they said that since the jackscrews would
>    strip out of the brackets that held them, Microbiotics replaced
>    them with smaller screws that only go flush with the case.

The brackets are pretty flimsy: each bracket is simply two L shaped
pieces of very soft metal folded over one another.  The hole in the
bracket does not even have a thread in it.  The first time you screw
something into the bracket, the screw cuts a thread.  Given how weak
the bracket is, I recommend that you hold the bracket steady with a
pair of needle nose pliers when inserting a screw the first time.

    I have an early Amiga 1000 and experienced somewhat similar symptoms.
    Even after grounding the Starboard to the Amiga, they persisted.
    It took grounding the PAL chips on the daughterboard in the Amiga
    to finally solve the problem.  Since then, no problems at all!
    I think that the method of grounding the PALs is somewhere in this
    file. If not, i'd be happy to post the procedure.
    
    				Jim
    

    
    I tried a "DIR/TITLE=PAL" and did not find how to ground the PALs.
    Please post the procedure.  I will try any resonable solution right
    now. Thanks.
    
    	Mark
    
    P.S. Has anybody thought about using keywords? It really does help
    and can be more complete for searching. 

    well... my Starboard 2 works great now that I have a board under
    it and the A1000.  Before I did that, simply inserting or ejecting
    a disk was enough to disturb the connection.  The grounding with
    foil the joystick port shield was just a way to determine if the
    RF problem was caused by a poor shield ground.  It was.  Now if
    I bump the A1000, the board moves, not the connection.  I also bent
    the RF shield on the Starboard to make better contact with the A1000
    shield.  
    
    As you may has guessed by now, I'm not a big fan of slap-on-the-side
    expansion.  But it works ok, and I've heard worse stories about
    internal memory upgrades.  Once you start using 2.5 Megs, you won't want
    to part with the critter.
    
    -dave

    
    My amiga sits on a flat (not necessarily level) surface. Do I did
    it to be level? I tried all kinds of angles for the board, but it
    didn't help.
    
    I tried the aluminum foil trick. Either I didn't do it right or
    it wasn't a strong enough connection. It didn't work.  I did try
    touching a piece of wire to the bracket and wedging it between the
    Starboard and the Amiga as I put the Starboard on.  This worked
    for a little (maybe a minute) longer.  I actually was able to start
    the clock demo and watch it run.
    
    I am a little unclear as to what the 'RF shield' is. Not being a
    hardware person leaves me at a disadvantage sometimes. This is one.
    I gather it is a piece of metal, but I am not sure where.  Could
    I bend the one on the Amiga instead?  If this doesn't work, I am
    going to send it back to GO AMIGO and let them send me a new one.
    I wouldn't want them to say "Ah-hah!  YOU bend the RF shield! WE
    won't replace it. Too Bad."  I want to keep the Starboard just like
    they sent it to me so I can have some recourse if need be.
    
    Thanks for all the help,
    
    	Mark

    I think what the basic problem is is the connections of the grounds!
    the RF shield on the amiga is the metal tabs with hols in them...easily
    seen if the SB isn't attached..its where the screws (if supplied
    would connect...)
    
    the other thing those scres did was touch some metal on the SB pcb.
    this also needs grounding...the "RF shield" is just the metal case,
    thet is properly grounded....thats why ground seems to help...
    
    hope this helps.
    
    scott.
    

    well now, I think I've got a problem...with the SBII connected...green
    screen...ie memory faults!...without...a-ok...will try the grounding
    tricks memtioned here, but anyone got any other ideas??  going back
    to 512 is not a pleasant thought!
    
    scott.
    

    Make sure you have run the Starboard memory diagnostics before
    panicking.  I had a chip go south in my Starboard, and the diagnostics
    caught it in a flash.
    
    If you don't have the latest diagnostic software (there was an upgrade
    or two) e-mail me and I'll get it out to you in a flash.
    
    Ed.
    

    thanks for the offer, but I can't even get it to accept the KS disk
    yet...I think it may be too much noise, or something...If I can
    get it to boot with the damn thing attached, the diags ...for sure..
    
    scott

    well, this is really bizzare, since last time I tried it, no-go...no
    chances, even to the positioning, et...I thought i'd give it one
    more try before fiddeling around with it...Boots ok!  ran the diags
    (thanks for the offer ed, but when the returned it last summer,
    they included new diags, mine are rev E), and works fine...no errors!
    
    so, chalk it up to ???  BUT, I have "propped it up better to avoid
    any tilting/strain/etc.  
    
    scott

    
    In reading back over this, I realized that I said what the final
    result was.
    
    It went something like this:
    
    After talking to their techs for a couple of days, I sent the SB2 back
    to GO AMIGO. 
    Three weeks later, I hadn't heard from them.  I called and
    the person said that the replacement was not sent out because my
    address 
    

    Two weeks later, nothing had arrived.  I called and the RA said
    that I had returned a 512K Amiga 500 (!!!!!!!!!!!) memory expansion
    and not the 2MB A1000 expansion.  I decided that three strikes were
    enough.  I asked that the order be cancelled and a refund given.
    
    Fortunately, they were able to do this correctly.  Even though I
    was not able to get the memory board (Maybe since it is an early
    model or something), I will say that the company did not give me
    any difficulty in getting a refund.
    
    Mark
    
    (P.S. re: .-1  I am glad that it "went away". But I would watch
    it with a suspecting eye, if I were you.)
    
    

	Well, it's nice to see that some things don't change.  I 
	dealt with Go Amigo about a year and a half ago (when they 
	were still calling themselves Go AmigA), and it took almost
	three months (and threats of legal action) before they got
	my order straightened out.