Conference hydra::amiga_v1

    I have been told that the Amiga 2000's PC/XT slots can accept a
    disk drive card, and that if you don't boot MS-DOS on the PC side,
    the AmigaDOS side can use the PC's disk.  I haven't yet been able
    to confirm this by actual testing.  (My Bridgecard is due "any week
    now".)
        John Sauter

    Come on over here and you'll get it over the counter today...
    
    BTW, how much does it cost over there?

    The rumor mill has it that CBM is developing a 286-based Bridge
    card.  CSA claims that they will produce a 386-based Bridge card
    if CBM does not.
    
    That should be neat... running OS/2+Presentation Manager in an
    Intuition Window...
    
    Note that the A2k already has AT slots, in addition to PC/XT slots.
    The existing PC/XT slots can be upgraded to AT slots by adding a
    connector extendor.

    I have decided to upgrade.  The upgrade deal has been sweetened
    somewhat:  according to Don at Memory Location, instead of the old

	A1000 + $1000 = A2000

    it is now

	A1000 is worth $1000 off an A2000, net cost $850

    He also now agrees that the offer is only good thru Oct 31. 

    As of last night he had 8 A2000s in the store.  He is holding one until
    I can get in for it, or else I wouldn't yet be writing this.

	Paul

    Well, as I said there's no official upgrade policy here, however
    I guess upgrading costs less here. I can get the 2000 for ~$1250;
    the 1000 should bring at least $550 used, maybe a bit more (both
    without monitor, in the standard config [which is 512 kb for the
    1000 here]). So looks like the plain upgrade costs ~$700. These
    calculations are based on an exchange rate of $1 = 1.85 DM.
    
    Last night, on my way home, I bought the 'Amiga Magazin', one of
    the umpteen German computer rags (just to strengthen my faith and
    to get some unbiased info :-)
    
    A couple of points that might be of general interest:
    
    The AT bridge card is on the market already; it goes for ~$900
    (still rip-off in my opinion). The XT bridge is around $550 - $600.
    
    The magazine had tested a couple of I*M peripherals with the AT
    (yes, AT) bridge: an EGA card an a Seagate 338 drive with Omnitech
    controller.
    
    The recommend anyone doing serious MS-DOS work to get a display
    card and use another monitor for the bridge; they claimed that
    scrolling etc. of MS-DOS windows is a bit awkward on the AmigaDOS
    display. Anyway, the EGA card worked perfectly, according to them.
    
    The disk drive was also installed without problems and worked, what
    they said, "99% ok" (I hope they didn't mean one disk access in
    100 failed...). Anyway, they said that simultaneus accesses by MS-DOS
    and AmigaDOS to the disk sometimes crashed the machine (but not
    often, they were quite satisfied). They were also a bit vague about
    this and didn't mention whether it was MS-DOS, AmigaDOS or both
    that crashed. Also, they didn't give any comments on performance.
    
    Anyway, the winnies for I*M clones are dirt cheap compared to real
    Amiga drives. A 30 mb drive with controller goes for <$500 here.

    Re: .4

    Call it a misunderstanding or a lie, but tonite they denied any $850
    deal.  It was the standard $1000 deal.  I did it anyway - I guess it
    was just too good to be true.

    I just got the 2000 together.  Initial reactions:

    - It's big.  No room for keyboard in front of system box on my table.
      Now I have to figure some way to rearrange everything.

    - The fan makes a lot of noise.  This should mean I never have to worry
      about overheating.

    - You need entirely new cables!  I thought everything would be the same
      as long as you weren't using the powered leads.  Wrong!  The sex of
      both serial and parallel connectors is changed.  Also (reputedly)
      there is power on different leads such that a gender changer cannot
      be safely used with the old cables.

    - I like the keyboard.  Now when Smokey supports the keys in VT200
      it will be wonderful.  (Hint!)

    - It should have been obvious, but I was surprised to find that my
      extra disk drive is now DF2 instead of DF1.

    That is a far as I have gotten so far.

	Paul

    how much is a lot of noise?  ibm pc noisy?  vt220 noisy?
    i haven't been able to hear the fan with all the noise in the memory
    location.  How much noise compared to the 1000?
    
    too bad about the $850, almost had me convinced to trade-in.  Now
    i think i'll check out the $1300 Software Shop deal.
    
    some recent usenet posting had excerptsrom the 500/2000 Tech Manual
    that said there was a jumper that would let you make the external
    drive df1: instead of df2: if i recall it correctly.
    
    -dave

RE: .6
    
    
>    - I like the keyboard.  Now when Smokey supports the keys in VT200
>      it will be wonderful.  (Hint!)

If someone could send me a list of the raw key codes for the extra keys
    on the 2000 and 500 keyboards, I could make use of them in Smokey.
    
    Better yet, If someone could send me a 2000 or $1000 for an upgrade,
    I could get the info on my own.
    
    --Mike

>   how much is a lot of noise?  ibm pc noisy?  vt220 noisy?
>   i haven't been able to hear the fan with all the noise in the memory
>   location.  How much noise compared to the 1000?

    I don't know how noisy a vt220 is.  I can't hear the 240 in my office at all
    over the background noise.  The 2000 is a lot louder than the 1000. 

I finally got everything working again last night.  Had to go thru the agony of
soldering a new connector on my LA50 cable.  Now all I need is an extension cord
for the mouse.  I didn't have room for the system box behind the keyboard, so
now it is to the left.  The cable for the keyboard comes from its right side, so
it runs all the way across behind the keyboard, and the mouse cord must snake
behind it.  I have just about enough cord for the mouse, but absolutely no
extra.

	Paul

    I'm thinking about the Software Shop deal, too. How much could I
    expect to get for my 1000 if I sold it on my own?
       
         mitch
  

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga
Path: decwrl!labrea!jade!ucbcad!ames!ptsfa!ihnp4!cord!sis
Subject: Noisy A2000 fan
Posted: 7 Oct 87 13:53:44 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Liberty Corner
 
I just received my A2000 and was very dissapointed by the incredible amount
of noise its fan generates. I may have been spoiled by how quiet the A1000
was, but I believe that objectively this new machine should not be this loud...
especially when used in a quiet home environment. Would George Robbins or anyone
else care to comment on a potential fix for this rather annoying problem? Help,
pleeeze, as I'm beginning to regret that I ever sold my reliable old amy-1000.

    
    RE .10
    
    	I just bought a used A1000. The going price for the base 512K
    system is $450 - $550. As posted in another note, You can get a
    used A1000 with 90 day in store service for $500 from the Memory
    Location. I bought mine there. They still had about 10 more to
    sell.
    
    
    			Steve Peters
    

    
    re: .7
    
    Omnitek in Tewksbury has the 2000 for $1795
    
    That translates to $1000 credit for your A1000 + $795 to buy
    an A2000.  Too tempting to resist, i bought it!  Also "bought back"
    my A1000 for $395.   Total $1190 (no sales tax when you buy it at their
    Salem NH store)
    
    The A2000 fan noise is a "reasonable" amount of noise for a good
    pc clone.  But i've been spoiled by the A1000's fan, will be hunting
    for a quieter fan.
    
    -dave
    

    Good deal:
    
    Family Computer (in New Jersey)
    $1050 + serial # from the bottom of your unit = A-2000
    
    I'm seriously considering this.
    dov

    Can you get the number for this place, and/or tell me where you
    saw this, magazine I assume?  Would be really great if you could,
    cause I have the money now for the upgrade, and it is really
    burning a hole in my pocket!
    
    thanks,
    
    brad
    

    re .several: For what configuration are the prices mentioned here?
    With or w/o monitor?
    
    

    Will Digiview work with the 2000?
      
        mitch

    
    RE. .17
    
    Digiview has an adapter that is needed for A2000 and A500. I saw
    one at the memory location a week ago. I think it was about $20.
    
    
    		Steve Peters
    

    re: .16   usually it is just the A2000 system box, keyboard, mouse,
    and manuals.  The trade-in is the A1000 with the same stuff.  The
    official policy says 256K memory, but most dealers are saying they want
    the 1000 with 512K.
    
    -dave

    Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga
Path: decwrl!pyramid!oliveb!amiga!cbmvax!higgin
Subject: A2000 Upgrade program
Posted: 13 Oct 87 20:14:19 GMT
Organization: Commodore Technology, West Chester, PA
References:
 
Due to the success of the A1000 trade-in program, it has been decided
to extend the program until the end of November.  So those people
who are having a difficult time deciding now have a little longer to
make your decision.
 
	Regards to all,
		Paul Higginbottom.

    re .19: well then we seem to have the rare case that a home computer
    is *cheaper* here than in the States... the 2000 (A2000?) sells
    for ~$1250 here (1 mb, 1 internal drive, without monitor). The 1000
    used to be more expensive most (all?) of the time it was sold.
    

     re .14:

     I called Family Computer and here's what I found out from Raffi: 

     For verifiable user group members, $1050 plus A1000 serial number
     will get you an A2000. For non-members, it is $1200. This is for
     check or money order. For an additional 3-5%, he will accept credit
     cards. 

     He wants $50 for shipping. 

     I spoke with him about a group order and he said he would let us use
     credit cards without the 3-5% additional charge and also reduce the
     shipping charge. Maybe (my speculation) he would reduce the price
     directly if purchased with checks. He is willing to ship to different
     locations but would prefer one. He said it will take four weeks to
     get them due to back orders. 

     I plan on ordering an A2000 from him. Perhaps he also has low prices
     on other stuff like hard drives if ordered at the same time. If there
     is enough interest in a group (4+) order, perhaps that would be a
     good thing to do. If you are interested in a group order, send me
     mail with your name and what it is you want to order. After a few
     days, I'll see how much stuff there is, call him, and see what he
     will do. 

     Since the trade in offers have been extended through November, time
     isn't as critical as it was, but I think we should try to have the
     order together within three to four weeks. 

         mitch

    I'm in for an A-2000, A memory board (if his price on that is good),
    a bridge board (again, same thing on the price) and the 2090 controller
    (which is $280, a very good price I believe). Does anyone know how
    much the 2090 is selling for at other places? I'll look in the latest
    Abel price list, but I was just curious about other places. They
    are selling 20M SCSI drives for $425 and 40M ST506 for $375. Now
    we have to start researching large drives in SCSI :-) I think I'm
    in Nirvana....
    
    dov

    Is it possible to take the chips from the Starboard and stick them
    somewhere in the A2000 (like sockets on a hard drive controller
    or something)? Or will I have to get that adapter from Microbotics.
    Is there any market for used Starboards?
    
      mitch

    
    RE .24
    
    	To use your RAM chips I would check with ASDG about their A2000
    RAM board. It might take the same chips. As for used starboards,
    I am looking for one VERY cheap. So far I have found a couple
    of 2MB starboards for $300 each.
    
    
    		Steve Peters
    

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga
Path: decwrl!pyramid!oliveb!amiga!cbmvax!daveh
Subject: Re: Amiga B2000 and Genlock 1300: Can it be done?
Posted: 13 Oct 87 19:19:05 GMT
Organization: Commodore Technology, West Chester, PA
 
in article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Eric Keisler) says:
> Keywords: genlock 2000
> 
> I just recieved my 2000 and began looking over the manuals.  The first
> thing I noticed about the RGB pinout diagram was that there is +12 volts
> onto a pin on the 2000's RGB connector - on the 1000 this pin provides +5.
> My heart sank because I instantly realized that my 1300 Genlock can't be
> used with my 2000 through the use of a simple extension cable. 
 
Here's the poop on the video connectors:
 
        +5V        +12V       -5V	 -12V        GND
 
A500	23/Main    22/Main    -----      21/Main     20,19,18,17,16,13
A1000   23/Main    22/Main    21/Main    -----       20,19,18,17,16,13
A2000   23/500mA   22/300mA   21/Main    -----       20,19,18,17,16,13
 
The A500 has no internal -5V supply, so -12V was substituted.  The A500 doesn't
supply enough power to drive an A1300 anyway.  The A2000 has the same voltages
on its output as the A1000, except that these are the USER supplies, which are
electrically protected and current limited versions of the internal supplies.
Providing the GenLock isn't drawing too much current, the A2000 should work
just fine with an A1300 and a short extension cable.  For the A500, an external
power supply would be required; add on the supply for +/- 5V and +12V, pass on
GND and the non-power signals to the A500.
 
> One more question:  The 2000 RGB connector has two 'ground' pins; one for
> 'signal ground' and one for 'digital ground'.  To which of these pins should
> I connect the 'common' wire on my external power supply?
 
If you bought the A2000 in the US, these are actually in common inside the box.
Pin 13 was labelled digital ground, all the other shield/analog ground, but in
fact they are all common inside.  A normal RGB cable will use on ground pin
together with each signal pin.
> 
>    -Eric Keisler           CSNET:  csufres!redwood!erick
-- 
Dave Haynie     Commodore-Amiga    Usenet: {ihnp4|caip|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh
   "The B2000 Guy"              PLINK : D-DAVE H             BIX   : hazy
    "Computers are what happen when you give up sleeping" - Iggy the Cat

re: .23

I have read that the A2090 controller will NOT support hard disk boot.
Apparently we have to wait for Perry's or yet another from Commadore.
Can anyone confirm this?  Having waited this long I will wait a bit longer to
avoid booting from a floppy.  Can anyone confirm this?

	Paul

    re:.27
    
    Yes, it's true.  According to the Commodore hardware folks on usenet,
    the A2090 was designed long before the hard disk boot scheme was
    created.  I saw an A2000 with A2090 boot off the floppy.  It didn't
    take long, just looked like assigns and then continued the boot from
    the hard disk.
    
    No word from CBM if it would be possible to add that feature later.
    
    Shouldn't be too long to wait before third party booting controllers
    are available.  I guess it depends on when OS 1.3 will ship.  I've
    heard sometime in December.
    
    -dave

    What is the best hard drive setup for the 2000? Questions I have
    are:
    
       What drives can fit where? Can a 40M 1/2 height 5.25" drive as
       well as a 30M 3.5" drive fit inside? Can only ST-506 be used
       in the 5.25" slot? Can only SCSI be used in the 3.5" slot?
    
       How much faster would a SCSI drive be than an ST-506? Would it
       be noticeable in average use?
    
       Any good prices on controllers or drives?
    
         mitch

    What you are really limited by is the hard disk controller.
    The amiga 2090 supports 2 st506 devices and 7 (+- 1) scsi devices.
    The review in the almost year old byte of the 2090 states that both
    types of drives may be used at the same time.
    
    The "slots" can we call them bays?  are really only physical spaces
    in which you can put the drives.  Hence any 5 1/4 half-height device
    will fit in the 5 1/4 bay/slot and the same goes for the 3 1/2.
    Commodore sells an HD package of the 2090 and a 3 1/2 20 meg drive
    (don't remember if it was scsi) for yes 999.99.  yech.
    Last time I was at the Software Shop, Moe showed me a stack of 
    3 1/2 half-height hard drives I am sure they were at least 20 meg,
    and he mumbled something about 30 meg but I wonder if that was with
    an IBM pc using an RLL controller.  Those were ST506.
    
    Reprinted without Permission from the March 1987 Byte:
    
    about the A2090 (they called it the 2094 in the article maybe it's
                     different)
 
       "...The data-transfer rate on the ST506 side of the board is
    on the order of 5 megabits per second....The board's data-transfer
    rate on the SCSI side is around 10 megabits per second..."

    Of course, remember that if you are using an ST506 - SCSI converter
    on the drive, I do believe that you are limited to the bandwith
    of the ST506 drive.  And of course, you are always limited to
    seek/access time etc.
    
    Moe (SS) mentioned something about the Microbotics people coming
    out with an A2000 hd controller, I have seen ADs for the Supra
    A2000 controller, but have yet to see any prices on those.
    
    The _Computer_Shopper_ is a good source for Hard disk prices deals,
    etc.  
    
    brad
    

    one other disk mounting possibility is on the controller card itself.
    Hardcards are popular in the ibm pc world, should be possible to
    do the same for the amiga side some day.  Then you could have 2 3.5" 
    floppies and one 5"25" floppy in the bays.
    
    -dave

    But hard cards are pretty thick, so you may lose an expansion slot.
    

	These very characters are being typed on the keyboard of my
	rand new A2000 !  I just did the trade-in thing with one of
	the local computer stores; they got 6 A2000's in yesterday,
	and they're all gone already !

	All in all, I'm real happy with the little beastie; the keys
	are a bit stiffer than the 1000 (which I like); the fan is
	indeed noisier than the 1000's was (not enough to bother me).
	The unit seems to be real solid; no obvoius mechanical defects
	visible from the outside anyway.  I like the big boxiness of
	it -- I always felt like the 1000 was kind of toy-like (I think
	this prejudice stems from my early work with KA-10's where
	16 K words of memory was the size of a refrigerator...).  Had
	to wire up a new modem cable before I could get online; I
	don't see why they had to transexualize the serial port.

	I can hardly wait till I've got some money to throw into some
	expansion toys (may be awhile, since I just bought a new 
	house -- oh well)

	A happy Amigan,
	 Art

	"AMIGA -- not just a computer, more like a religious experience"