Conference hydra::amiga_v1

    I called memory location $65,and software shop $67 . Am ordering
    one tomorrow .I run with 512k so it will save me from loading conman,
    and keeping it on my workbench disk .
    
    bill

    Sounded like a kludge to me - especially the way it sets the clock when
    you boot.  What happens when you boot a disk which doesn't have the
    necessary commands installed?  What happens when its timing is off for
    aborting the startup sequence?

	Paul

    re: .2   
    how do the other plug-in clocks set the system clock?  Don't they
    also require some program on your boot disk?
    
    Would be much nicer if there was just some way to provide a battery
    backup to the system clock.  Does the Amiga 1000 have a real clock
    or is timing generated by the custom chips?
    
    -dave

    I imagine the result would be the same you might get if you booted
    a workbench disk that did not have the software required by any
    of the other time clocks that plug into various ports on the Amiga.
    While none of these items appear perfect some have features I feel
    would be harder to live with . For example mousetime is disabled
    once your finished booting and cannot be enabled again without powering
    down the system, others interfere with some hardware options that
    are available . At least with Timesaver you you can disable the
    features if needed an then later enable and send the macro to set
    the time .One more Idea I have thought about (don,t even know if
    it's practical)is that this might be a nice place to adapt a 2000
    keyboard plug,and possibly even macro that can support that keyboard.
    in the event the startup sequence is not aboarted in time i'll have
    to issue "HELP + 5"and update the clock . I ordered from The Software
    Shop $65 + $5.00 shipping + $3.00 COD (reversed the cost when I
    gave them earlier) . $73.00 to me right now is hard to come by so
    it looks like a long way to go before I see any memory or disk upgrade
    that will give me a realtime clock . If I do get something with
    a better clock setup I'll disable the clock on Timesaver an run
    with the macros .(now the real reason) I am intrigued by this item
    and feel a desperate need to play with It .If I find anything worth
    mention good,or bad I'll report it here .
    
    bill
    

    The real-time clock provided with Supra SCSI drive comes with a
    command called 'ReadClock' that must be installed in the
    Startup-Sequence.  I've tried removing the command, and determined
    that the clock survives a warm restart, but a power-off definitely
    stops the clock.
    
    BTW, the Supra clock has been accurate to within 30 seconds over
    a period of a few monts now.
    

    With the other clocks, if you boot something without clock support the
    internal clock just doesn't get set.  (Proabably not a problem with
    things like games.)  With this setup the command fails.  Perhaps no big
    deal - but not neat.

    A product which just sprays keystrokes into the input stream without
    any feedback to determine if they are being accepted strikes me as a
    kludge.  If something got out of whack I would recognize it and know
    what to do, but I don't think the rest of my family (who also use the
    machine) would.

    On the other hand, I am not forced to buy it, so why should I care?

	Paul

	While the TimeSaver sounds neat, it also sounds
    like a pretty expensive kludge for functionality
	which already fits nicely into the AmigaDos environment.
	CONMAN and/or the Dillon/Drew shell give me wonderful
	command line editing, and more.  And (shell anyway) don't
	cost anything.  As for the clock, I just used the calendar
	program which selects the day only, and didn't worry about
	the time.  I never use any of the 10 gazillion clock programs.
	Guess I don't like thinking about what time it is.

	Also, since more and more vendors of peripherals are including
	battery backed clocks in memory cards and disk drives 
	(something which I suspect most devout amiga owners will buy
    at least one of eventually), why hack a clock like TIC,
	A-TIME, etc.  Just wait.

    Since I got the SupraDrive, now I have the clock, great.
    Now that I have a real file system, it's time for one;
	but I didn't miss the acurate time before.
	Sorry to be long winded, just trying to say:
	the 79$ or whatever for the TimeSaver is
    10% (or more!) of a 20meg supra from ABEL.  

Dave

    RE .6 Too say that Timesaver simply sprays data into the system
    in the manner indicated seems rather harsh .If I define a macro
    that issues a command to the system ie: "dir df0:" the system should
    see the proper command line and if it cannot execute the command
    should at that time react in the same manner as if you typed in
    "dir df0:" from your keyboard .I feel it is a matter of perspective.
	The Timesaver is an unusall item in that it has it's own HARDWARE
    based functions ,and I feel this leaves many people with a uneasy
    feeling . I of course don't know how Timesaver accomplishes what
    it is intended to do (regarding command line editing) so I'll have
    to wait and see .I do feel that while amigados can handle the functions
    supplied by Timesaver,due to it's multitasking nature the system
    overhead of a program such as conman(called frequently) may be much
    more than timesaver .So until I can afford more memory ,and a hard
    drive I am willing to look at other alternatives .
    
    PS. We that are lucky enough to be on the net often forget that
    many potential amiga users will not have our resources, and to them
    a kludge of this nature makes the Amiga much more likeable.
    
    bill

    I bought one. It is not perfect, but I found it more tolerable than
    something like TIC, which would require me to update each
    startup-sequence.
    
    Given the fact that TIC and TimeSaver are within the same price
    range, the additional features of timesaver seemed a better use
    of my money. Sometime in the future, when I can afford memory and
    a hard drive, it will be replaced with a real clock.
    
    I just never remember to set the darn thing and timesaver does it
    for me. Plus key macro's and a learn mode (which by the way can
    be used in a mini-journal mode)
    
    The only real problem I have encountered is with flightsimulator
    using the Break characteristic of timesaver. The break function
    interupts startup via ctrl-D inserts the dat setting and restarts
    the startup-sequence unfortunatly FSII doesn't have a startup-sequence.
    This in essence leaves you in boot-time limbo.
    
    C-Ltd general recomendation ( for those few of us who use Wbench)
    is to leave the initial cli open disable the break function and
    use the auto date function. The auto date function will slip the
    date function into the cli input stream. Being a hard headed type
    I have choosen to enable the break function anyway, I just turn
    it off when I goto boot FSII.
    
    I wish that I could get all the gadgets AMY deserves, I just plain
    can't afford the habit, but at the very least AMY should know what
    time it is, so she can tell me it's time to goto bed.
    
    <jim

    I have a TimeSaver too. A couple items of interest:
    
    o It works with the Drew Shell - TimeSaver macros work with a
      combination of the HELP key and a second key. Fortunately, there
      is a long enough delay in the Shell following depression of the
      HELP key to enable the pressing of a second key to dump a macro.
      I'd still like to be able to disable the HELP key operation in
      the Shell. Anyone know how?
    
    o The TimeSaver has nearly 8K of RAM that can be used for programming
      various auto-start sequences. It does this by executing a break
      BEFORE s/startup-sequence is executed. All auto-start macros stored
      in the TimeSaver are executed first BEFORE s/startup-sequence
      is executed. 
    
    TimeSaver comes with a comprehensive manual of features (and boy
    are there features). 
    
    Installation is a snap - plug your keyboard into TimeSaver and plug
    TimerSaver into the keyboard jack on the Amiga. The shape is such
    that it will fit poifectly into the small rectangular space under
    the Amiga (behind the keyboard garage).
    
    The password feature when enanbled requires a password before the
    startup-sequence is executed. Another "keyboard lock" feature when
    enabled requires a password to use the keyboard or mouse.
    
    All-in-all it seems to be a well thought out product. It doesn't
    require any mods to the Amiga, nor does it tie up any ports. 
    
    Mem Loc had many in stock for around $60 (that's the member price).
    
    Paul
    
    

    After a week of waiting,and three different stories from the Software
    Shop I cancalled my order and called Memory Location .The next day
    I installed Timesaver .I like what I have seen so far .Timesaver
    consists of An 8 bit Micro,an 8k Eprom(half full)to store the operating
    code and 7+k of low powered ram .Their is also a chip that monitors
    when you turn on your Amiga and adjust power requirements accordingly.
    The manual mentions that as future versions of Timesaver are developed
    Eproms to upgrade will be made available .So far it has exceeded
    all my expectations,and I have no regrets for the money spent .
    I called Cltd with a question and the phone was picked up on the
    first ring .The people were polite.knowledgeable about the Amiga,and
    very willing to help .In actual application aside from having the
    clock and macros available it seems to be completly transparant.
    
    bill

    I got one the other day.  It is quite neat.  I've discovered that
    it isn't perfect tho.  I have a public domain terminal program called
    Wombat Terminal Program (WTP).  It won't work at all now.  The screen
    display is totally messed up.  I have no idea why.  Everything else
    seems to work fine.
    
    Storing mouse movements as macros is fantastic.  However, the arrow
    seems to move at different lengths depending upon what disk I boot
    the system with.  I don't know what causes this.  So one disk will
    let me use my neato mouse macros...another one has the mouse missing
    the mark, even tho I'm running the same software, just different
    copies of workbench (yes, they are all 1.2)
    
    The manual is long...and long winded.  A little too cute for my
    tastes.  It realy doesn't go into any detail about mouse macros,
    one of the most exciting features.
    
    Still experimenting...
    
    Randy
    

>    Storing mouse movements as macros is fantastic.  However, the arrow
>    seems to move at different lengths depending upon what disk I boot
>    the system with. 
    
    Is it possible the mouse sensitivity in PREFS is set different?
         
    <jim

    When I contacted Cltd they informed me that the way your mouse is
    set in prefs. is indeed something taht has to be taken into
    consideration. re: note 644.13 right on .I also found that when I
    logged into work from home Timesaver had captured the whole command
    session passwords and all .In that my amiga is at home this really
    does not matter,but I can see where the password macro would be
    needed in other situations .(good for keeping little ones from messing
    up your spreadsheet when you walk away for a moment). I now want
    to clean ram and start fresh .Not sure how to do this yet .I still
    have not finished the manual yet,while it is a bit long winded
    re:Randy's note I find this much better than some of the docs sent
    to users today .My dealings Cltd however brief indicate that if
    we write with suggestions they will implement them in both the manual,
    and operating code .
    
    bill 

    I thought periods ended sentences.