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Conference hydra::amiga_v1

Title:AMIGA NOTES
Notice:Join us in the *NEW* conference - HYDRA::AMIGA_V2
Moderator:HYDRA::MOORE
Created:Sat Apr 26 1986
Last Modified:Wed Feb 05 1992
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:5378
Total number of notes:38326

389.0. "Novices wants to buy PC" by DONJON::BRAVER (Gary Braver) Fri Mar 20 1987 12:08

I would like to purchase a PC within the next 3-4 months and would like
some advice as to what I should buy.

Requirements 
1) Would like to spend under $700 for PC, monitor, and letter quality printer

2) Primary use would be for Word Processing, Spreadsheet, and home grown 
   programs, and communications (VT100 emulation, file Xfer)

3) Detachable keyboard

Highly desired:
Standard interface/cables to monitor, printer, other peripherals

I've read most of the notes in the Amiga and Atari files and things like 
blitter chips, MIDI, SCSI, and interlaced graphics confuse me.

I do understand processors, clock speed, and monitor resolution if that 
helps.

Where do I begin?

Thanks
[posted to AMIGA and ATARI]
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389.1..LEDS::ACCIARDIFri Mar 20 1987 12:5312
    An Amiga, even a bare minimum system, will cost you over a thousand
    dollars.
    
    You should be able to get an Atari 520ST with printer and monochrome
    monitor for under a thousand.
    
    This being a hallowed place for Amiga-dom, we are obviously a bit
    biased.
    
    Actually, your best bet might be a Blue Chip PC clone from Caldors,
    for around $600 without printer.  Or a Commodore 64 system would
    be good for light word processing and spreadsheet use.
389.2ELWOOD::PETERSFri Mar 20 1987 14:2710
    
    	I think you are asking too much for $700. First of all I don't
    know of a LETTER quality printer for less than $500.00 . The cheapest
    way to buy a monitor is with a system. Mail order CHEAP PC-clones
    cost $700 without any printer.
    	After you have CHEAP hardware What software are you going to run???
    A basic word processor will cost $100 or a very good one $300.
    
    		Steve Peters
    
389.3Facts and OpinionsTLE::RMEYERSRandy MeyersFri Mar 20 1987 17:5985
Re: .0

You are asking for too much for $700.  If you remove the printer from
the system, then for can get a fairly nice computer and monitor for
about $700.

An Amiga 1000 with monitor and 512k can be had for about $1100 from
several mail order houses.  I recently saw an add for an Amiga 1000
that placed the price of such a system in the $1000 range.

How important is a detachable keyboard?  The Amiga 1000 has one.  The
Atari STs do not.  The new Amiga 500 doesn't have one either.

Do do not mention color.  The monochrome STs are good buys.  A monochrome
system is cheaper than the same system with color.

If you don't mind the lack of a detachable keyboard, in 3 or 4 months
you may be able to put together a Amiga 500 system for about $700 to $800.
(Since the 500 is a newly announced product, the price and delivery date
is still in flux.)

Neither the Amiga or the ST has a "standard" cable to the monitor when
using RGB output.  The Amiga requires a special cable to be used with
a non-Amiga monitor.  The ST sometimes requires some electronics.  The
Amiga does have standard composite output for plugging in to a VCR or
television.  This is also a feature of the 520 ST, but not the 1040 ST.
I am not sure about the Amiga 500.

The RS-232 cable for the Amiga is a 9 pin, straight through, male connectors
on both ends cable.  Almost any shopping mall sales these.  I don't know
much about the parallel connector of the Amiga.

About the keywords you mentioned:

"Blitter" is a word popularized by bit mapped graphics people.  It is a
small processor that moves large strings of bits around very fast.  A
blitter is to graphic operations as a floating point accelerator is to
number crunching.  The Amiga has extended the idea of a blitter by 
endowing the blitter with the capability of taking multiple bitstrings as
input and performing a boolean operation on them to yield a resulting
bitstring.  All models of the Amiga come with a blitter.  The blitter may
be an option on STs later this year (the ST blitter is over a year late
and has suffered more set backs lately).  It is unknown whether the ST
blitter will have all the features of the Amiga blitter.  The Amiga is
the only computer in the under $3000 price range that has a blitter.

"MIDI" is Musical Instrument Digital Interface.  It is a standard that
allows you to program a computer in the musical instruments and control
them.  The main requirement for MIDI is that the computer be able to
be able to work with serial data at a very funny baud rate.  The Amiga
can do this, but requires an adapter for some reason that I am fuzzy on.
The STs come with a MIDI jack, and so are more MIDI ready.

"Interlaced" video output is used by the Amiga to double the number of
scan lines displayed on the monitor for super high res.  Normally, the
Amiga puts out 200 scan lines.  The Amiga can put out 400 scan lines in
interlaced mode by writing the even numbered scan lines out and then
backing up and writing out the odd numbered scan lines.  However, the
video screen will appear to flicker because the set of scan lines written
during the last pass over the screen has a chance to dim slightly while
the new set of scan lines is output.  Some people find they can work
with interlace on and not be disturbed by the flicker.  I am not one
of those people: it gives me a headache.  Interlace can be used for
some nice graphical effects, but I can not use it for text.  An expensive
long persistence phosphor monitor can reduce or eliminate the flicker.

"SCSI," also sometimes written (and always pronounced) as "scuzzy,"
stands for Small Computer mumble Interface.  It is a standard interface
to disk and other hardware.  It is not IBM compatible, although IBM pcs
could use it if they wanted and had a SCSI interface installed.  The
Macintosh has helped popularized SCSI, since it comes with a SCSI port.
SCSI drivers are starting to appear for the Amiga.

Unfortunately, comparisons based on clock speed are not fair to the Amiga.
Its processor runs about the same speed and a Mac or ST, but the Amiga
has a lot of hardware assist to offload work from the 68000.  For example,
scrolling a page of text is a significant amount of work for a Mac or
ST, but is done by the blitter, not the 68000, on the Amiga.

So, a monochrome ST is on the low end of your budget, and a Amiga 500 is
one the high end.  I think the Amiga 500 is a much better deal: it's
expandable;  it has official programmer documentation;  it has more
sophisticated hardware; and,  it has multitasking.  It has the same
capabilities and special chips as the Amiga 1000 in a cost reduced
package.
389.4I like the priceBAGELS::BRANNONDave BrannonMon Mar 23 1987 19:1026
    re: .0  word processing, spreadsheets, vt100 emulation....
    
    those can be done on most any pc, even 8-biters.  Its one of those
    price vs quality/hassle tradeoffs.  The Amiga and ST toss in a 
    few extra hardware/software features to make life more fun.
    
    I've heard the ST keyboard can be detached from the system unit
    by a 4 wire cable, but the FCC might not like that :-)
    Should be able to do the same thing to the Amiga 500 when it comes
    out.
    
    Suggestions:
    try the keyboards - i liked the layout of the ST keyboard, but couldn't
    stand the feel and rattling of the keys.  The new Amigas and the
    new "Mega" STs have new keyboards, each claiming an "improved" feel
    to the keyboard.  I like the A1000's just fine, feels like a VT100
    to me.
    
    Get the computer, then look for the printer.  Little things like
    having a printer driver that lets you use the fancy features of
    the letter quality printer can affect the choice of printer.
    Be aware that there are lots more buzzwords about "letter quality"
    printers, compare actual print samples.
    
    -dave
    
389.5DONJON::BRAVERGary BraverTue Apr 07 1987 15:5944
I would like to thank everyone who responded to my question.  I've begun to 
uderstand that PC costs can add up with monitors going for $150 +, and line 
quality printers starting at $250.  

Working for DEC with a VT100 at home I don't think I'll buy one for the 
foreseeable future but here's what I gleaned from reading the notes.

Comments welcome

Atari PC's

	CPU	With 	With 	Proc	Clock	Mem	Drive	  Det	Other
	Only	Mono	Color					  Key
		Mon	Mon

520ST	$ 300			M6800		520	(1) 3.5""  N	640x400
1040ST		$ 799	$ 999	M6800		1M	   "	   N      "
MegaST	$1000			M6800		1M
PC	$ 499	$ 699		I8086	4.7/8 	512	5.25 	   Y	below

Atari PC std features
Graphics:	EGA, CGA, Hercules, IBM Monochrome 
Resolution:	640 X 350
Communications:	Serial and Parallel ports
Other:		Mouse

Comodore

	CPU	With 	With 	Proc	Clock	Mem	Drive	  Det	Other
	Only	Mono	Color					  Key
		Mon	Mon

10	$ 999					512K	(1) 360K	below
20	$1199					640K	(2) 360K	  "
A 500	$ 599					512K	(1) 3.5""  N
A1000		$1100						   Y
A2000	$1500					1M	(1) 3.5""

10/20 same machine with different memory and floppies
Graphics:	CGA, Hercules, Plantronics
Communications:	Serial and Parallel ports


[Posted to AtariST and Amiga]
389.6Minor nit...PLDVAX::SMCAFEESteve McAfeeTue Apr 07 1987 16:243
    re:-1
    
    Should that be A1000 with COLOR monitor for $1100?