Conference hydra::amiga_v1

    according to Computer+Software News, March 9, page 9:
    
    The Amiga 2000, the Amiga 2088 Bridge Board, and the Amiga 500
    ...
    All three are due to ship in June, according to the firm.
                 
    Then some analysts discuss the delays with Sidecar, then the
    quotes get interesting..
    
    "Commodore North America gm Nigel Sheperd said the firm is committed
    to rectifying its credibility problem.
    
     We are very, very aware of the compatibility problem that which
    resulted from the Sidecar delay.  I can assure you in the strongest
    possible terms that the new XT board will be available from the
    first day that the Amiga 2000 ships."
    
    It also says they will offer an AT card within 2 months after the
    US launch of the 2000.
    
    The 500 is mentioned as a 512K machine with a price of $649 aimed
    at home and educational users, that will be sold through current
    Amiga dealers.
    
    Other interesting items:
     The Amiga 2000 is now supported by more that 400 business applications
    
     Commodore hopes to develop the desktop publishing capabilities
    of the Amiga by introducing a laser printer for the system later
    this year.
    
    -dave

    According to the RJ Mical talk, the 2000 is based on the work
    done for the 500... but the lack of details about the 500 is
    disturbing.  Maybe they're saving the 500 for cover of the next
    issue of Amigaworld :-)  
    
    -dave

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga
Path: decwrl!decvax!mcnc!seismo!ut-sally!husc6!rutgers!cbmvax!mikeb
Subject: Re: new Amiga questions
Posted: 6 Mar 87 14:27:22 GMT
Organization: Commodore Technology, West Chester, PA
 
In article <[email protected]> (STEPHEN HARTFORD) writes:
>I've got a few questions I'm sure others must have also-
>if C-A could comment...
>
>1) Why introduce the 2000 now when U.S. units will not be shipping
>for at least three months?
The 2000 will begin shipments in Europe later this month. As soon as the
boats from Europe reach the U.S. we will begin shipping here. That appears
to be about 4-6 weeks after the European shipments but not quite 3 months.
>
>2) Is the 500 going to be a mass market or dealer computer?
The A500 will be sold through computer specialty dealers possibly with the
addition of one or two high caliber general merchandisers.
>
>3) Frank Leonardi (V.P. sales) told a friend of mine to expect
>quantity shipments of 500s in June, others have said it won't be
>until much later.
The plan is still June. Actual availability in any given retail outlet
is a function of shipping time, order fulfilment etc. which could mean
you won't see one at your favorite dealer until July.
>
>and the next question I already know the answer to, but anyways...
>4) Why are the overpriced, under-performanced new Macs getting
>all of the press?
Good question. Why not write to your favorite editors and ask them. We
have certainly put a large effort into communicating with the press
about the new Amiga products. Maybe the editors don't think their readers
are as interested in the Amiga or Commodore.
>Just thought I'd ask.
>
>Steve Hartford              mu7wbl%[email protected]
>programmer (student?)       University of California, San Diego
---
       - Mike Brenner, Commodore -

    
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga
Path: decwrl!decvax!ucbvax!ucbcad!ames!ucla-cs!rutgers!cbmvax!grr
Subject: A500 and A2000 Announcement
Posted: 6 Mar 87 22:40:44 GMT
Organization: Commodore Technology, West Chester, PA
 
In a press release dated March 4, Commodore announced the Amiga 500 (tm) and
Amiga 2000 (tm) computers.  The A500 has a suggested retail price of $649
and the A2000 $1499.  Availability is to be first half 1987.  Distribution
channels include computer stores, electronics specialty stores and selected
department stores.
-- 
George Robbins - now working for,
but no way officially representing
Commodore, Engineering Department

    At least the computer press here (in Germany) has had sample A500's
    for test weeks ago (or even longer, the tests appeared weeks ago).
    They actually had photos (taken by the mags, not supplied by C-A);
    also photos showing their editors working on an A500 in their office...
    
    which obviously still doesn't prove a thing about actual delivery
    dates. But the A500 *does* exist.
    

    Sydney's PC Show is from March 17th to 21st and according to our
    largest Commodore retailer here, they have had a couple of A500's
    and A2000's in their hands for a few weeks now.
    
    These will be running at their stand during the exhibition!
    Could this be the firstpublic viewing in the world? 
    
    Still doesn't shed any light on delivery, but these guys have taken
    an order for 50 A500's and 3 A2000's from the
    Australian Broadcasting Corporation (the largest network here)...
    so I guess everyone is pretty confident of the product!
    
    Regards from Down Under,  Rob.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga
Path: decwrl!decvax!tektronix!uw-beaver!cornell!rochester!seismo!ut-sally!husc6!rutgers!cbmvax!grr
Subject: Re: Some questions about the Ranger (really A500)
Posted: 10 Mar 87 17:14:28 GMT
Organization: Commodore Technology, West Chester, PA
 
In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Blaine Gardner) writes:
>Could someone at C-A see fit to tell us some hard facts about the A500?
>The A2000 is exciting and all that, but I've got several friends that
>love the Amiga, but it's a bit out of their budget.
>
>Is it really going to cost only $300? I assume the A500 is a "real"
                                  ^^^^ sorry, no way!
>Amiga, that is it has the full hardware of the 1000? What limitations
>are imposed on expansion (something has to give to get the price down)?
 
    Recommended List prices is $649, but remember that stuff in this price
    range should be subject to discounting, bundling and promotions. 
 
    The only notable omission from the base system is the *color* composite
    video, which has been moved to the optional RF modulator.  In return,
    you get a full grey-scale composite monochrome output that you can use
    with $70-100 monochrome monitors, taking ~200 bucks off your system
    cost.  Both analog and digital RGB are still present though... 
 
    Expansion is pretty much the same, except power for external devices is
    limited.  It's too soon to tell which third party hardware vendors are
    going to modify their products to be compatible with the power issue
    and the casework configuration. 
 
    Compared to the A2000, you only get 512K RAM built in - an option board
    plugs in underneath to provide an additional 512K RAM and a battery
    backed up real time clock.  Not sure what this card will list for, it
    is intended to be cheap... 
 
    At the $649 price, you are getting the equivalent of an A1000 with it's
    optional memory expansion.  It's cheaper because we were able to use
    current technology and we used the traditional Commodore formula for
    making low cost system - integrated keyboard, external power supply...

     -- George Robbins - now working for,
     but no way officially representing
     Commodore, Engineering Department 

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga
Path: decwrl!decvax!ucbvax!ucbcad!ames!cit-vax!usc-oberon!bacall!papa
Subject: The new Amiga 500 (from latest Amazing Computing)
Posted: 10 Mar 87 04:41:59 GMT
Organization: CS&CE Depts, U.S.C., Los Angeles, CA
 
    Well, this time it seems that Amazing Computing beat BYTE, AmigaWorld
    and Compute on the Amiga 500 coverage.  Just today I received the
    latest issue filled with information and specifications on the Amiga
    500 (and the 2000,too).  By the way, Don Hicks finally made it.
    Starting from this issue you'll be able to buy Amazing Computing at
    Dalton Bookstores and Software Stores. 
 
    Anyway,  John Foust (of AMICUS fame) has three articles which include
    informationon the Amiga 500.  These are some of the things I found
    interesting about the Amiga 500. First of all, the machine looks great.
    If this one doesn not make money for Commodore, I don't know what will. 
 
    Package similar to the Commodore 128, it has a single 3 1/2 in. drive
    on the right side of the box (computer and keybord are one piece).
    Standard memory is 512K expandable internally to 1Meg. The expansion
    bus is almost identical to the Amiga 1000 except that it is on the left
    side.  A1000 boards will NOT fit into it without some kind of connector
    that switches the lines.   Hardware manufactures need only change the
    orientation of the package not the electrical design. The keyboard is
    similar to the A2000 keyboard. Kickstart is in ROM. New Kickstart disks
    will be accepted. The memory is ALL on the same bus. That is, "fast"
    memory is not fast anymore.  The 68000 will see contention on the
    memory above 512K when using lots of bitplanes or high res.  Basically
    you have the same speed of an A1000 with 512K (no fast mem). Reason:
    cost. 
 
    The gender of the parallel and serial ports has been changed to be able
    to use IBM PC compatible cables. The A1000 genlock will NOT work with
    the A500. The power supply is external like on the Commmodore 128.  The
    A500 includes the "fat Agnes" chip: this has the same resolution as the
    old Agnes but packs more chips that were on the motherboard of the
    A1000. Two new custom chips are on the board, named Gary and Buster. A
    gate array chip, and a bus arbitrator that again pack various
    components together. At CES in Las Vegas Commodore showed  a low-cost
    SCSI interface that plugged into the A500 expansion bus and two new
    video monitors. The A500 entered preliminary testing in February. At
    the same time a pilot production was started in WestChester.
    Production will move to Hong Kong. 
 
    In a separate article John Foust states that "reliable estimates place
    the initial production run of the Amiga 1000 to 140,000 units. The
    production stopped at the end of the summer of 1986 [any Comments?].
    According to sources close to Commodore there are only a few thousands
    Amiga 1000 left in the warehouses.  This indicated a planned sellout of
    the Amiga 1000 line. ... Chances are good that another small production
    run might occur in the future, if demand arises." 

[ Then some unrelated rumors... ] 
 
-- Marco Papa

	Next week, as soon as the Hannover Messe will be over, we (AmigaClub)
	are going to place an order for 20 Amiga2000 to the biggest
	Commodore Delear in Frankfurt , West Germany. This is the place
	Los Gatos raccomanded some times ago ( Sidecar times !!)
	I'll post  here the results. 
	Please everybody: cross the fingers ....

    Excuse me, mind if I smoke?
    
    ARRRRRRRRRRRRRGH!
    
    Why in bloody h*ll would CBM do such a silly thing as to make the
    500 buss the mirror image of the 1000 buss.  Why are the silly twits
    ignoring us 140,000 A1000 owners?  Why do they proudly announce
    add-ons for their new babies when they have all but refused to produce
    add-ons for the 1000?  Have we seen 1 fast RAM board for the 1000
    from CBM?  No, but we sure do have a 512K board for the new
    128-with-a-glandular-condition.  Granted, memory boards from CBM
    are not likely to be inexpensive, but at least it would've shown
    us some commitment on their part.  I'm just so damn tired of all
    the hoorah about the new machines.  CBM is smiling out of one side of
    its face while sticking its tongue out on our side.  <Insert
    appropriate raspberry sound here.>
    
    I'm happy that the Amiga line is continuing.  I've got some Apple
    loving friends whose heads are being turned by the A2000.  But,
    I wish that CBM had had enough sense to provide some alternatives
    for our expansion as well as for that of our half and twice brothers.
    With CBM's focus turned away from the 1000 (was it ever really there),
    what will be the response of the 3rd party developers who've been
    our saviors for the last year or so.
    
    Still smoking but not yet flaming,
    Gary

    Gary, are things really that bad?  There are three different vendors
    offering SCSI drives, with capacities up to 350 MBytes, and about
    a dozen add-onn memory vendors.  Plus, ASDG, Byte-by-Byte, and others
    are shipping expansion boxes for the 1000.  ASDG has comitted to
    deliver a box that will allow the 1000 to accept any of the cards
    that the 2000 can handle.
    
    Sure, I would have preferred that CBM led the way with hardware
    add-ons, but 1985-1986 was the worst year in their history.  The
    bankers were dictating what CBM would and would not build.  I spoke
    with CBM engineers who were working on all kinds of hot projects
    that never saw the light of day for lack of capital.
    
    Now that CBM is prospering, the smartest thing that they can do
    is to cause more Amigas to be sold.  The 500 and 2000 will do just
    that.  
    
    By the way, CBM did show a hard drive for the A1000, but it may
    or may not be shipped.  
    
    Like it or not, the A1000 was considered too expensive for a home
    computer, and too wimpy for a business machine.  Personally, I am
    gonna buy a hard disk, and with 2.5 megs, I'll be all set for a
    few years.

    maybe the 64 and 128 need all the help they can get to compete
    against the 520ST?
    
    I too am very curious why CBM felt they had to put the expansion
    connector on the left.
    
    -dave

    Even if the expansion connector is a mirror image it shouldn't be
    too difficult to make an adapter; but at least according to the
    articles over here, it isn't. (Though they did say they couldn#t
    make their sidecar phyically fit).
    

Re: .8

The expansion bus for the Amiga 500 is on the left because the disk
drive slot is on the right.  I must reluctantly admit that they may
have had not much choice there.  (I guess that makes me a bigger right
hand chauvinist than an Amiga 1000 chauvinist.)

I can't imagine why they changed the form factor for Zorro cards for
the 2000.  That does seem arbitrary.

At least they kept the electronics (pretty much) the same.  At least
the hardware developer's on Usenet didn't act concerned over the one
signal line they did change.

    re: .12
    
    The form factor on the new Amiga cards seems to be the same as the
    pc card factor.  That might make them cheaper to buy, although the
    amiga card would need lots more edge fingers, if there is already
    manufacturing equipment for mass producing boards with pc form
    factors.
    
    After reading the usenet description of the 500...I'd still recommend
    buying a 1000 while they last.  The 500 doesn't have the disk drive
    slot on the front, the keyboard is not detachable, the composite
    color is on the optional rf modulator, and worst of all... it doesn't
    have a keyboard garage.
   
    -dave 

    Thanks for all the discussion.  I was wondering if I was the only
    frustrated one.  I guess I'm not truly frustrated, but rather boggled.
    I simply don't understand why CBM cannot release goodies for us
    as well.  May or may not release just isn't good enough.  I realise
    that there are lots of good products out there for the 1000 at the
    moment, but I'm more concerned about the ongoing support both from
    CBM and the 3rd party vendors.  Will we get passed by?  Will current
    and future "standards" be geared only toward the A/2 and the 2*A?
    I suspect that I'm making much too much of this, but I just felt
    a little left out.  It's not as though the 1000 is a deadend machine
    and I would feel much better if CBM would channel a little of it's
    soon-to-be-burgeoning wealth in our direction.

    Regarding the A/2's lefthand expansion, I'm willing to forgive CBM
    if it was necessary to do it, but otherwise I think it's not
    forgivable.  It seems to me as though it will not be the 500 users
    who have to use the adaptor, but it will be the 1000 who will have
    to adapt to 500 add-ons.  When the current supply of 1000 add-ons
    dries up, will the vendors make 500 add-ons or 1000 add-ons?  I
    guess I'm just being a nit picker.  I just hate to see my beautiful
    A1000 play second fiddle to a C128 clone.

    
    Besides, I just hate to see the death of mankind's greatest achievement,
    the keyboard garage. :v)
    
    Gary

    re: .14
    
    the tradition lives on... i just saw a picture of the C-128D, the
    128 with a detachable keyboard and a garage underneath the system
    unit.  But the keyboard looked to long to fit in it.
    
    You're right that the 1000 will eventually need an adapter to fit
    500 add-ons.  If CBM sells more 500s than the existing 1000 customer
    base, that should bring down the cost of the add-ons enough to reduce
    the grief that might cause.
    
    I'd like to see CBM make a "standard" side-mounted expansion box
    and a "standard" 2000 slot box.   Then the 3rd-party
    manufacturers making plug-in cards only have to test their cards
    in 2 boxes (3rd party boxes just have to be compatible with the
    CBM boxes)
    
    Look on the bright side, the original rumors about the 500 said
    that it would be a closed system, like the 520ST.
    
    The last usenet had some more encouraging news about the 500.  Any
    external RAM will be fast ram.
    
    -dave
              

    The 500 seems to have hit the stores here finally (here=Munich,
    Germany).
    
    the price is, as forecast, DM 1298,- (without a monitor). The 2000
    sells for 2998,-. Interestingly, they seem to be offering a Philips
    monitor with the 500 (I've been told that the Amiga 1081 monitor,
    different from the 1080 sold in US, is also manufactured by Philips).
    
    I don't know if it is a sign of their marketing startegy for US
    too, but the first place to have them seems to be Quelle, something
    comparable to Sears in US (you can buy anything from underpants
    to a Caribbean holiday at Quelle).
    
    One US$ is about DM 1.80.

    re .16: During lunchbreak I visited my favorite computer shop, they
    now have the '500 in stock too. And they too are selling Philips
    monitors... they had one of the 1081's still around, looks like
    it *is* the same monitor as the Philips CM8533. At least from outside,
    they are identical.
    
    Guess they just decided to save the money and trouble of putting
    the Amiga logo on a Philips monitor...

        

    is C-A doing any advertizing to help sell the 500?
    
    -dave

    No.
    
    
    I have yet to se a C-A ad here. Some of the bigger dealers do advertize
    but not C-A.
    
    Atari has always had full-page ads in all the major computer rags,
    as well as many non-computer ones.
    

    Just about one month after it hit the stores, the 2000 price has
    dropped to ~ DM 2300 in the cheapest shops.
    
    Wonder how fast the 500 will drop below DM 1000?