Conference hydra::amiga_v1

    P.S. In fact, for the time being, I would be satisfied if one of
    you EMACS gurus could give s hort description of what to put in
    the EMACS_CONFIG file to bind the keys (f1-f10, F1-F10, keypad)?
    I hate having to hitt control-this-control-that continuously..
    

re:	.1

This is kind of a religous issue... so let's not get into word fights. I like
EMACS. I do not like mice/keypads/function keys while editing. If you
want a good portable EMACS, take a look at:

	COOKIE""::DISK$GZ_DISK:[WECKER.EMACS.UEMACS]
		*.h		- includes
		*.c		- sources
		uemacs.hlp	- documentation
		uemacs.exe	- VMS executable
		make.com	- make script for VMS

This is an UNSUPPORTED version (my own).. but is the ONLY editor I use on
the AMIGA, VMS and ULTRIX. You only need to change one define in estruct.h
(the machine you're on) and recompile.

It includes:

	-	Full regular expression pattern matching
	-	My own micro-lisp for batch mode editing
	-	sub-process windows (under ULTRIX)
	-	Keypad support on VMS and ULTRIX (which I never use so I
		never got around to checking it out on the AMIGA)
	-	48 line windows on VMS and ULTRIX
	-	Only 75k in size
	-	Built in Modes:
			WRAP	- auto wrap
			EXACT	- exact (case-sensitive) searching
			LISP	- language mode
			MODULA	- language mode
			C	- language mode
			SLOW	- slow speed (1200 baud) terminal optimizations
			VIEW	- read only mode
	-	LOTS AND LOTS of bug fixes from the standard PD version
	-	Too many other features to list.. take a look at UEMACS.HLP

Again, I WILL NOT SUPPORT THIS EDITOR. It is for my own personal use,
but you are welcome to use it.

dave

P.S.	I'm using it to write this... fyi

    I don't have a C compiler [yet]. Could you put the Amiga executable
    on line? (Or is it already, I haven't checked your directory).
    
    

re:	.3

Now don't get upset... but for the time being I really just don't have time
to arc it and upload it. Maybe somebody else would be willing....

It's just with the ray tracer, vt100 and several others I've been pretty loaded
down. (Some day I've got to do some REAL work :-)

sorry,
dave
    
    

    Never mind... besides as I said I already have a uEMACS version,
    I just don't know how to use it... it would satisfy my modest immediate
    need if someone here could tell me how to load the key bindings
    from an init file (it accepts ^X^K to bind keys interactively).
    It announces itself as microEMACS V1.1 but I've forgotten who the
    author was...
    

Fish disk 23, I think, contains two versions of MicroEMACS that
I found very useful for learning it.  The names were something
like GEMACS and XEMACS, or at least that's what I renamed them
on my system disks. 

GEMACS, as I recall, is almost completely Amiga-ized.  Mouse, 
menus, etc.  Wonderful for learning the functions of EMACS, but 
cumbersome to use all the time.  Try it with the very extensive 
menus to get the names and operations of the various functions.  

XEMACS is a non-Amiga-ized version of EMACS, but it has one 
other WONDERFUL feature for us occasional users.  The HELP key 
actually gives help.  (Imagine that.  How many other 
applications have you seen on the Amiga that pay attention to 
the HELP key.  For that matter, how many on the VAX?)  Hit the
HELP key followed by any other key, or key combination, and the
bottom line of the screen will tell you what function is bound
to that key, or key combination. 

What I did to learn about EMACS, what little of it I know, was 
use the menus and HELP key, and write down an exhaustive list of 
the things I found, and tape that list to my monitor.  

XEMACS commands are things like

	^char
	^X^char
	^X char
	ESC char
	F1 thru F10
	shift F1 thru shift F10

GEMACS recognizes the same commands, too, but also has the menus 
for helping the occasional user.  (Actually, I recall that 
GEMACS was much larger, ergo slower to load from floppies, and 
seemed to have the backspace key, normally the same as rubout, 
bound to some bizarre function.  I couldn't change that because 
I have only Lattice C and not Manx, blah blah blah.  Too long a 
story.)

I use XEMACS all the time, in preference to TxED, even, because
I like it.  And I am a dyed-in-the-wool EDTer.  Well, TPUer with 
the EDT emulator today.  Also, I have it on my IBM clone, and
changing editors too often can hurt one's productivity. 

I never looked to see if XEMACS wanted to open a file of key 
bindings or other commands on startup.  I will have to look thru 
the sources to see if I can find something.  

All of this of course is predicated on your being able to find 
the right Fish disk.  I'm pretty sure the right number is 23.  
There are four versions on the disk: with vs without menus, and 
Lattice vs Manx.  I hope these disks are available to you 
locally.

Good luck.

rick

    Thanks, but I have found all that out already - the version I have
    also has pull-down menus (displaying the key bindings for the
    functions). Also, many other keys I've found in the help file
    for the uEMACS mentioned earlier work - I just would like to know
    how to load the keys from an initialization file. It reads
    SYS:EMACS_CONFIG - if I put text in there, it gets loaded into the
    edit buffer - if I put ~blah in the file, f1 gets bound to blah
    - but that's about all I've found ozt so far.
    
    I can load at least all the function keys and keypad keys on-line
    with ^X^K but that's a bit tedious. I to am an EDT (or actually
    SEDT) user - with proper key bindings I could make this think look
    almost like EDT.
    

Re: .7

From your description, it sounds like you have a copy of the microEmacs
that was distributed with the Kickstart 1.2 update.

Therefore, I have uploaded the DOC file for that variant of microEmacs
to:
	TLE""::UPORT$:[RMEYERS.TRADE.AMIGA]MICROEMACS.DOC

>I too am an EDT (or actually SEDT) user - with proper key bindings I could
>make this think look almost like EDT.

I used to claim that EMACS (real EMACS) ended all arguments of the form
"My editor is better than yours!" because EMACS can be transformed into
an editor.

Anyway, you may find as time goes by that you prefer a "control key" editor
rather than a "function key" editor.  When I originally was introduced to
EMACS five plus years ago I felt that function keys were preferable.  However,
EMACS has such a rich command set that I found I couldn't map all my favorite
commands to function keys, even it I used shift keys, prefix keys, etc.

About SEDT:  Its author has gotten permission from DEC to market it.  But,
he has targeted the ST as his first implementation.  I would guess that he
would probably not do an Amiga version until he recoups his investment in
the ST version.  Of course, you can always send him mail and ask him.

    Editors are like religion ! I do thrust in Emacs, but ....
    To make more noise let me mention another editor which is flying around:
    Uedit ( microforge). I think it's the closest to TPU. It has its
    own language that you can use to create whatever you want ( or close
    to it). But to make a long story short I'm still waiting for THE
    EDITOR to show up. I 'd like an editor which can be both a SCREEN
    editor and a LINE editor ( many times you want to transform
    a file using a batch procedure ??!! ). It must be performant but
    must NOT be memory bounded ( large files don't fit !!) ...
    

    Editors are a religion indeed... however, my religion (at least
    currently) says it's a waste of 10 function keys and the keypad not
    to use them. I'm a pretty poor typist and am especially annoyed
    to use the control key... so binding some basic commands to e.g.
    some of the keypad keys would be useful. Thanks for the document,
    I'll copy it over.
    
    We've been talking with Anker about an Amiga conversion of SEDT.
    It's on his list, bot not at the top (but the ST version is already
    there).

I know that for dealing with control chars etc. this editor is useless,
but for those who have to have an editor unbounded by memory,
don't forget EDIT.  That's right, the free editor that comes with your amiga.
It windows input and is very stream-ish.  Do I use it?  Not in ages,
but it has occasionally been useful!

Dave

;	EMACS.RC:	Startup file for MicroEMACS 3.4
;
;			This file is executed everytime the
;			editor is entered
 
; RBLandau 870215
; stolen fair and square from Dawn Banks, and altered.
 
;	***** Rebind the Function key group
 
bind-to-key execute-named-command	FN;
bind-to-key execute-file		FN<
bind-to-key hunt-forward		FN=
bind-to-key hunt-backward		FN>
bind-to-key next-window			FN?
bind-to-key describe-key		FN@
bind-to-key find-file			FNA
bind-to-key view-file			FNB
bind-to-key save-file			FNC
bind-to-key exit-emacs			FND
 
; ***** now, rebind to get rid of that dangerous ^Z quick exit,
;	a disaster waiting to happen, being right next to ^X, 
;	unless your fingers work better than mine.
 
bind-to-key previous-page		^Z
 
; ***** now, set wrap mode, if possible.
 
add-mode wrap
64 set-fill-column
 
; ***** now, add bindings for a few oversights
 
bind-to-key delete-previous-word	^]
bind-to-key previous-paragraph		FN^D