Conference hydra::amiga_v1

    Yes I would love to hear some more detail about the game.  I'm a
    gamer from way back, having solved the PDP11 Dungeon long before
    it ever became Zork I to III. My particular interest lies in games
    that rely more on one's cunning, and problem solving ability rather
    than the toss of the dice.  Does TBT fit this category?  I also
    prefer the limited use of magic, though this type of game seems hard 
    to come by these days (i.e. HACKER II).
                           
    Stu
    

    I picked up a copy of TBT this past weekend at Lechmere's in Nashua,
    NH.  They don't carry much amiga software, but it doesn't hurt
    to look when I'm in there :-).  They had one copy left for $35 which
    I thought was pretty good.  The computer store at the other end
    of the mall wanted $50.
    
    I like the game a lot.  I've probably played it about 10 hours so
    far.  It seems quite challenging and I have yet to find the "sewers"
    which the docs suggest should be attempted first (before the catacombs,
    dungeons, or towers).  There are extensive spells for magic users,
    etc.   About 90 I'd say.  I haven't run into any what I would call
    puzzles yet.
    
    If anyone out there has a pd program which will back up TBT I would
    like to hear about it.  I have had no success doing this.
    
    One word of warning,  the first few hours I played the game I was
    getting read/write errors every few minutes.  After a few hours
    of playing this rarely happens now.  Fortunately the documentation
    mentions this problem and tells you how to recover without any loss
    of information whatsoever.  My guess is that this has something to 
    do with the protection scheme that is being used.
    
    regards,
    
    steve mcafee
    

    
    Minor nit about Bard's Tale documentation.  The amiga specific card
    enclosed with the game says "E" should be used to Elevate up a portal.
    "E" does NOTHING while standing under a portal (Yes I was levitating).
    
    In a mild panic I managed to find the correct key to be "A".  For
    ascend I suppose.
    
    regards,
    
    steve mcafee

    re .3
    
    If you press the right mouse button, the menu will give you a number
    of choices like ascend and descend, cast, etc.  I seldom use the
    menu to make my selection, but it is a decent reference because
    it shows the keyboard equivalents.
    
    Gary  (who is struggling away in the catcombs)
    

    the cellar is above the sewer. The celler is under one of the inns.
    This Inn is the one south of the adv guild past the beutiful samuri
    idol.
    
    I have a hunter and a monk (nobody hits the monk any more not since
    8th level and hes the youngest of my six) who are doing great (after
    the monk quit using any weapon and the hunter got a mthr sword).
    
    I dont like the grey dragon but his brother idols are an easy 1200
    points for me now. were around tenth level now. 
    
    I had a magican join us once with 2 hit points. I thought he be
    dead with the first round of the next fight. I had him with me until
    I quit. He could cast spells like crazy. The first round with him
    he cast two spells one at orc and one to lower armor class. Then
    the second round he lowered are armor class again (until then I
    didn't know you could do that) which helped us bag the bad guys
    with no damage to my bard (the most likely one to get hit).
    
    Heres a tip for getting big bucks to just keep your great charicters
    from staying dead. Create five charicters that don't have good stats,
    then call up a charicter with something expensive like the fire
    horn or a dragon shield and trade it to each trader save them bring
    them back trade it to the next guy save him and so on.
    WARNING:  DON'T SAVE THE CHARICTER AFTER HE HAS LOST THE EXPENSIVE
    ITEM.  NOW YOU WARM BOOT THE SYSTEM WITH THE TRADERS STILL VISIBLE.
    When you call up the traders they should have the item with them.
    Now just trade all the items to one, save, add him, trade all with
    the next and so on then warm boot again. Do this until all five
    have eight of the items. call up one of your favorite charicters
    to go to Garth's and sell sell selll.  Then wile you are there 
    have your main charicter pool gold, go back to the guild and only
    save the main charicter. After he is saved don't save the traders
    just warm boot and do it again until you are satisfied with your
    liquid assets. WARNING: YOU CAN'T SAVE GOLD THIS WAY, I MEAN IF
    YOU WARM BOOT WITH YOUR CASH IN YOUR POCKET IT GOES FOR TAXES,
    ALL OF IT! When you add a charicter after a warm boot or a system
    crash and he was not put to disk first, he will have no gold.
    
    I would like to here some tips on getting the bard to play longer.
    It seams to me he's getting shorter and shorter, approching worthless.
    
    Thanks, Steve Nicholas
            Wichita USA.
     
    

    Bard? Worthless?  I have two monks, 1 fighter, 1 bard, 1 MA, 1 CO.
    The Fighter has a mithril sword and the bard has a Bardsword.
    The Bard is 9th or 10th level.  He gets 4 hits per round, on one
    foe and does between 95 and 125 hps damage.  The fighter ONLY
    gets three hits at an equivalent level and only does 30 to 65 hp
    damage.  The monks are 9th or 10th get 4 hits and ONLY do 50-65
    hp.
    
    It does seem like bards songs are getting shorter but he is by 
    far not useless.  My Fire Horn ran out. I was beginning to think
    it would never happen.  But now I have Fin's Flute and Lak's Lyre.
    Unfortunately, when I try to use them it tells me that the Bard
    can't use them.  Hmmmm...
    
    The sewers are fun to map.  Watch out for the darkrooms. "Ouch!"
    
    If you realy want to rack up experience points get by the dragon
    and walk around in Harkyn's castle.  An average fight nets 1500
    EPs. Getting 3000 is not unheard of.  Watch out for the jail
    corridors, whew!  nasty stuff.
    
    Have you found the magic phrase?  I have not figured out how to
    utilize it yet though.
    

    Which magic phrase are you referring to? There are several.
    It's been a while since I played, but I got into the tower before
    I gave up for a while.
    
    					Rob

    Re Bards
    
    I had 2 of them and found them both very useful.  Seldom used them
    for their musical "spells", though.  They did blow their horns *very*
    well, however.
    
    Anxiously awaiting BTII,
    Gary

    I am still trying to figure out what the name of the Mad God is...
    What to say to the throne in Harkyn's Castle...
    How to get to the portions of harkyns castle that have no door...
        (Nowthat my magic users have reached the seventh level of
         spells I have a pass through spell, but that just happened
         last night.)
    Where to use "IRKM DES..."?
    What "Pass the Light ..." means?
    
    etc...
    
    I am not asking for hints or outright answers!  I am just sharing
    where I have gotten to so far with all of you other BTers.  Or should
    I say where I have not gotten.  Oh,yes, I just got my first Lightwand.
    Thats useful!
    
    I do have one question:  Does Fyn's Flute have any other use than
    to lower AC? ( I am not belittleing that, just wondering if there
    is something I am missing.)

Re .9:
	I have the C64 version but it is probably similar.  The name of the 
Mad God is hinted at in the graffiti.  Make sure you read them all.  Believe 
me, you do not want to get deep into Harkyn's Castle until you have enough 
power to handle what is in there.  Solve the Mad God's puzzle first.

Possible spoilers -

	As far as I know "IRKM DES..." is useless.

	"Pass the light..." means what it says.  There is a light that goes 
	out at night.

    WELL I HAVE DONE SOME HEAVY EXPLRING OF THE CASTLE.  MY MAGIC USER'S
    ARE ADVANCING VERY WELL. WHEN BOTH OF MY MAGIC USERS GAINED ALL
    7 LEVELS OF SPELLS I HAD A TOUGH DECESION TO MAKE. WHO TO MAKE A
    SORSR AND WHO NOT. WELL I LET MY MAGICIAN BECOME A SORSR AND MY
    CONGER A MAGICIAN. THIS WORKED OUT FINE BUT I LEARNED THAT SORSR'S
    ADVANCE SLOWER THAN THE FIRST TWO MAGIC USERS. MY CONGR-MAGICIAN
    SEAMED TO BLASE THROUGH THE SECOND SET OF SPELL LEVELS AND IS WORKING
    ON WIZZARD SPELLS NOW.  WELL I THINK IF YOUR MAGIC USER IS LOW IN
    REGULAR LEVELS THEN HIS SPELLS DON'T WORK VERY WELL ON THE HIGHER
    TYPES OF SPELLS OR ON HIGHER LEVEL MAGIC USERS OF THE UNDER WORLD.
    SO IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR LONG TERM POWER AFTER GETTING ALL OF THE
    SPELLS OF THE FOUR TYPES THEN MAYBE YOU MIGHT WANT TO GET THE CONGR
    OR MAGICIAN CLASS LAST SO THE LEVELS ADVANCE RAPIDLY AS A WHOLE.
    
    I READ THAT THE HIGHER THE LEVEL OF DUNGEON, THE SHORTER THE BARD
    SONG WILL LAST.  I USE THE SONG OF LUCKLREN (SOMETHING LIKE THAT)
    NOW TO LOWER DRAGON BREATH DAMAGE. ALSO THE LUCKSHIELD IS GOOD FOR
    REPELLING SPELLS.
    
    ANYBODY KNOW IF THE CRYSTAL SWORD IS GOOD FOR SOMETHING? THAT
    JABBERWOCKY IS ONE MEAN DUDE TO GUARD A 300 GOLD ITEM.
    
    ANYBODY LOST A LEVEL YET?
    
    THE RED DRAGON IS THE FIRST SPECIAL CHARICTER THAT LASTS LONGER
    THAN TWO FIGHTS. HE SURE LIKES TO BREATH ON SPIDERS (SINCE THEY
    POISONED HIM).
    
    ANYBODY KNOW HOW TO CURE 'SMOKE IN YOUR EYES' WITH OUT LEAVING THE
    CASTLE?
    
    IF SOMEONE WOULD LIKE TO TRADE A CHARICTER DISK TO GET GOOD STUFF
    I'D BE INTERESTED.
    
    THANKS,
    STEVE NICHOLAS.
    

    Big, huge massively nasty spoiler up ahead:
    
    There is a way to get ALL of the items in the weapons shop.
    
    One
    of the files on your character disk has the inventory of the shop.
    (It's been a while, but I forgot the name)  If you do a type 'whateve'
    opt h, it gives you a hex dump of the file.  You'll notice that
    the first 20 or so characters are FF's.  If you can hack up a quick
    basic program to write a string of hex FF's (255 decimal) as long
    as the file is, boom, you have unlimited amounts of everything.
     
    I suggest not doing it, as it tens to spoil the point of adventuring,
    and finding neat things.
    
    				Rob

    I got smoke in my eyes, last nite.  I kept exploring anyway.
    When my GRRE went out, I used a lamp and the smoke was gone.
    Sooo... either the smoke was attached to the current light
    source or something else.  Try finding your way to a lights
    out (spell nullification) space and create a new light source.
    Maybe that will clarify things :-)  Also be aware that a TRZP
    will not bullify the SMOKE squares.  Also be aware that there
    are a few of these squares.

Re .12 & .13:

    Just starting a new light spell will clear the problem.  Get out of the 
smoke square first or you will end up with the new light spell smoked as 
well.

    Thank's for the "smoke out" tip.  I found an old man on the second
    level of the castle an solved his riddle "what's a blood sucker?"
    so he let me pass.  But I haven't been able to get into the rest
    of that part of the castle, either with phase door or just walkin
    into walls like at the jabberwocky (that was accidental when I
    did that).  Any tips?  I am going to try aport arcane from the first
    level and enter through the floor.
    
    Keep an eye on your hit points on the second level, I lost my
    dragon and my hobbit befor I noticed that we were cut to ribbons.
    Wondered why there weren't any beasties in those rooms.
    
    If you have any charicters with 17 or 18 IQ then use them to
    examine those chests.  I have five with 18 so they get five trys
    befor I have to use spell points (that's one each).
    
    Good luck,  Steve.
    

    re .11 - ask a tavern keeper .. they all know about some things,
             including crystal swords.
    re .15 - losing levels? - Some nasties (wraiths, I think) in
             Kylearan's tower cost me about 600,000 experience points,
             and made one of my archmages into a 6th level wizard
             experience level 13 down to 10, when my entire party was
             killed. Luckily I had that character backed up, and was
             able to bring him back to the archmage level ... BTW,
             it's better to let your party be killed (or commit suicide)
             than reboot when you're out of time or in a losing situation,
             because you keep any experience points and treasure when
             you die.
    re .15   and examining treasure chests - it seems to me that at
             least thru the castle, any character can examine the chests
             with equal probability of finding the trap (intelligenc
             doesn't seem to count...)
    
    Has anyone gotten out of the first half of the first level of
    Kylearan's tower? I've tried everything I can think of, but can't
    seem to get any further. (I've got a monk, a hunter, and a bard
    - all level 25, and three archmages - they defend themselves very
    well, but eventually run out of magic and get killed in the dark
    areas of the tower).
    
    Smoke on - is any one else as annoyed at EA as I am for designing
    a game that you can't save? If you want to make progress, you either
    have to leave the game in, and Amy on between sessions, or you have
    to get out your current level, or commit suicide to save experience.
      And how about all the unnecessary delays built into the game (eg
    delays in examining chests)? Smoke off. Otherwise it's addicting.
    
    Lowell
    

    Yes I am anoyed with the chests, and yes I can't get out of the
    tower either. I attacked my dragon then defeneded until I was dead.
    found a frost horn and heal harp.
    
    Don't you wish there were script comands to set up files for doing
    different things like fighting monsters or wizzards or teleporting
    to different places? Just thoughts... btII was anounced for the
    amiga and btIII for the 64 with automapping from what I read.
    
    when you find the light in the sewers to pass you will know it.
    it's on 3rd level, it also very close to the Magic Mouth with the
    Mad Ones name (near 0,0).
    
    still can't get into the room south of the old man on the 2nd level
    castle.
    
    Does the Eye protect better than the silver square?
    
    Out of frustration I started mapping the sewers and was glad I did.
    Good info there.
    
    Oh! I got rid of my rouge too, and havent missed him yet now that
    I have 3 arch mages.  Good place to build up experence 59k at a
    whack is 5N 12E LEVEL3 in the castle. I go there 3 to 5 times in
    a row (in-out-in) to raise in levels. Warning set scrole mode to
    fastest speed or it will last 15 min.
    you need mind blade though.
    
    Thanks for the tips, Steve Nicholas.
    

          Warning spoilers  
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    There is only one level of Kyn. Tower and to leave you have to kill
    the crystal Golum and if you guess the right way you are out. To
    kill the crystal Golum you have to use the crystal sword.
    
    The next dungeon is from the bottom of the sewers after you key
    the Key. The siler shape you need in Mangars tower and it is realy
    tough.

    Well, I finished the Kylerans tower and am I tired.  You have to
    do everything in every room to go on to the next area.  There are
    teleports that fool you by placing you one room back. And there
    is something Sinister about the Stone Golem. Watch out for the stasis
    room that is not anounced.  The Mage staff was quite handy, but
    the sorceror staff has me baffeled as much as the exorwand does.
    Could these be a cure for old age or stoned persons (no females
    allowed I gess in this game)?  The monk killed the crystal golem
    with out a crystal sword (though the hunter had it). Then in the
    stasis room I learned that each charicter can hit him self eight
    times and die.  He must pull out nun-chucks to practice with and
    when they are spining around his head he must slip or something.
    

    p.s.
    Good luck guys, I will be mapping the next tower by this weekend.
    Steve Nicholas,
    Wichita.
    

    Gidday everybody - from 'down under'
    
    My names Phil and I have run into a weird prob with TBT - here is
    the sit:-
    
    <spoilers below:>
    
    
    I have made it through the castle with the aid of the eye and been
    teleported to Kylearans castle. after nosing around I was teleported
    to another part of the maze and I cant get out - I know I have to
    kill a crystal guardian with a crystal sword but the best i can
    find is a couple of inscriptions and a magic mouth:
    
    Inscription one says:
    
    MADE OF EARTH
    YET WITHOUT SOUL
    AS LIVING STATUE
    HE IS WHOLE
    
    Inscription Two say:
    
    AS A GUARDIAN
    HE MUST WALK
    1ST PART OF HIS NAME
    MEANS ROCK
    
    The Mouth asks:
    
    NAME THE ONE WHO IS COLD,TWOFOLD AND FORETOLD
    
    I have done everything I can think of - 

    AT THE VERY LEAST I NEED A VERY HEAVY CLUE !!!!!!!
    
    (Sorry - I'm not a patient as I was when I played ZORK)
    
    I just run around in circles - I know this because I double checked
    each move with SCRY SITE (SCSI) which tells you exactly where you
    are in relation to the entry stairs. 

    
    I would appreciate any help on this one from anyone who has got
    this far (10 levels down - 6 to go!!)
    
    Thanks
    
    Phil

    alias NZOV01::MCKENZIE
    
    
    
    PS : anyone know why PHASE DOOR doesnt work in a few places?? think
    it might be to do with teleportation shields
    
    
    

    re .16 - the documentation will confirm that the higher the iq of
    a character, the greater the chance of that character spotting and/or
    disarming a trap on a chest - luck is also involved according to
    the doc.
    
    regards
    
    
    phil

    I've only made it to the cellar, and I know you have to go down
    to get to the sewers, but where is the portal or stairway? I hope
    I don't have to teleport, because I'm not even near gaining that
    spell.
    

    Nah - you'll be ok - stairways are not visible from a distance,
    but when you stand on one you will be asked if you want to go up
    or down (what ever is appropriate)
    Portal are visible from a distance - to use one you must have a
    levitation spell going,stand on the square and press "A" for ascend
    (up) or "D" for descend (down) - if you descend and you dont have
    a levitation spell going your characters will be damaged. The only
    way to ascend via a portal is with levitation.
    	As a rule there are only one or two stairways or portals (or
    one of each) per level - ie they aint all over the place.
    A helpfull hint is to cast one of the "SIGHT" spells that tells about
    special things close by - there is even a spell to make the walls
    within 40 feet of a stairway say "there are stairs near" if you
    are facing the right direction.

    Now for some help with your problem...
    
    <spoiler below>
    
    the stairs down to the sewers are located in the upper-left quadrant
    of the cellars - you may have to fight your way through a few monsters
    to get to them - make sure your party is fully healed from the cellars
    before venturing into the sewers.

    may the force be with you...
    
    phil.
    
    
    

    thanx. Can't wait to start wading around in some sewage!

    It seems that all I am doing is wasting time in the sewers. I am
    getting very frustrated with all this mapping. I mapped all of the
    wine cellar, wich was not difficult, but the sewers are driving
    me crazy! If I make one mistake, or lose track of my place on my
    map, I mess up my whole map. I am thinking about getting the clue
    book. If this is the beginner's dungeon, I'm in deep trouble. Is
    anyone else having trouble? I'm welcoming any tips.

    Yes, mapping those levels can be nasty.  Especially when they "wrap
    around" like the first level of the sewers.  There are 2 things that I
    did to keep from getting confused.  You might want to try them.  1)
    Make liberal use of the Scry Site (SCSI) spell.  (1st level Magician)
    It will tell you your position in the dungeon relative to the place you
    entered the dungeon.  In the case of the first series of dungeons
    (cellars and sewers) they entry point is 0,0 in the lower left corner.
    2) Draw a 22x22 box on your graph paper very lightly before entering a
    new dungeon level.  Then when you enter the level cast the SCSI spell
    to find out where you are, and put an mark on your map to denote the
    stairs.  Now have "fun" mapping.  When you hit a "boundary", that is
    when you reach one of the lightly drawn border lines on your map you
    can easily erase any walls that really aren't there. Take heart,
    they're not all as bad as that one.  Some of the later ones don't even
    wrap around.  Oh yeah, one other thing you might want to do.  When you
    enter a square of the dungeon, mark a little dot in the center of that
    square on your graph paper so that you'll remember that you've been
    there.  Also, learn where your pause key is  (the 't' key on the Amiga)
    so that you can update your map without fear of attack.  Believe me
    there are plenty of other places to fight. 

    
    Good luck,
    Gary

    Thanks alot. I was thinking about returning the game for fear of
    insanity, but this helps alot.

    Greetings fellow Skara brae'ns - got a couple of questions for
    everyone??
    
    (1) is there any way to "Cure" the "Darkness" spaces 
    (2) I am now in Kylearian's Tower and I haven't found any spell
    	regeneration zones - should I have found these by now??
    (3) I am stuck in the tower - cant find a way out
    
    <spoiler>
    
    I know I have to kill a crystal guardian with a crystal sword but
    I can't find him either - I have done about the the tower and cant
    find how to get to the remaining bits. I am just past the magic
    mouth which asks "name the eternal way and your path shall be
    guarenteed" - any ideas??
    
    (4) what is the ....
    <spoiler>
    
    silver square and the silver triangle used for???
    
    help.......!!!!!!!
    
    Phil

        Keep the silver pieces they are used towards end game. Some
    minor spoilers follow line feed.
        RE. Darkness I could never bring light to the dark areas. Really
    dislike mapping those dark spots.
        As I recall you must answer the magic mouth for a secret door
    to appear. Else where in the tower.
        Spoiler follows
        The answer to the riddle is found in the city streets, alleys,
    WAYS.

    thanks for the tips.....I had already worked out the answer to the

    <spoiler>
    
    
        2nd magic mouth however, but could find NO NEW DOORS IN THIS
    LEVEL! I have done about 2/3 of this level but there are about three
    reasonably large areas that remain "uncharted" as I cannot get to
    them.... map look something like this....
    
    <spoiler?>
    
    
				NOT TO SCALE    
    * = charted area
    ? = uncharted area
    S = stairs down
    s = silver triangle
    M = MAGIC MOUTH (RE .30)    
        --------------------------------------------
        |????|*******************************|?????|
        |????|*******************************|?????|
        |????|*******************************|?????|
        |????|*******************************|?????|
        |????|*******************************|?????|
        |????|*******************************|?????|
        |????|*******************************|?????|
        |????|*******************************|?????|
        |????|*******************************|?????|
        |????|****************************M**|?????|
        |????|*******************************|?????|
        |????|*******************************|?????|
        |????|*******************************|?????|
        |????|*******************************|?????|
        |************************************!?????|
        |************************************!?????|
        |***S********************************!?????|
        |************************************!?????|
        |************s***********************!?????|
        --------------------------------------------
    

    I still havent found the Golem or anything else - Phase door doesn't
    work and neither does apport arcane.
    

    HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP!!!
    
    Phil
    NZOV01::MCKENZIE    
    

     spoiler (for those who have not yet completed the sewers)
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    I have mapped all of the wine cellar, most of level 2, about half
    of level 3,and all of level 4 in the sewers. I recently found the
    magic mouth that tells the name of the Mad God, and have entered
    the catacombs with a 12th level party. I discovered two inscriptions
    on the third level and two on the fourth. I am wondering about a
    few things:
    
    *what happens when you enter the squarethat says "something strange
    is going on." this square is located around the stairs going down
    on level 2 if my memory serves me right.
    
    *need I map more? I am quite tired of mapping the sewers, and I
    am wondering if I have missed anything. I'd like to finish my business
    in the sewers and start working on th catacombs.
    
    *I fought my way into the castle, and found Lak's lyre and Fin's
    flute. I figured out what the flute does, but what does the Lyre
    do?
    
    I'd appreciate your answers in clue, but a "yes, you missed something
    or a "no you didn't" will do for the "need I map more" question.
    
       Thanx

    In my last note I said I discovered two inscriptions on the third
    and two more on the fourth: I found these in the sewers, NOT the
    catacombs.

    Some hints, please!
    
    I've found Mangar, but haven't found the spectre snare yet. The
    only squares I haven't seen in Mangar's tower are the one's he seems
    to be guarding. Is the snare in Mangar's Tower (I don't really want
    to know precisely where it is, ... yet) ?
    
    How about starting a new note for spoilers?  For example, I'd like
    to know what Fin's Flute does (as well as most of the other things
    that I haven't tried, and at this point am not likely to try). Suggest
    each note should list the things it will talk about, before the
    spoilers actually scroll into view.  I'll start with some things
    about staffs.
    

    HAVE FINALLY COMPLETED KYLEARANS TOWER!!!
    
    will be starting on mangars tower this weekend - I would also like
    to know what laks LYRE is used for - also I found a
    <spoiler>
    
    SWORD OF PAK - anyone know what this is used for??
    
    phil

    .35
    
    Sword of Pak in 1352.13

    What is the answer to "name the one of cold, foretold twofold?"
    
    Dave

    What happens when you answer the "name the endless byway" question?
    
    Dave

    Where do you get a crystal sword?
    
    Dave_who_is_stuck_in_the_Amber_Tower_and_will_probably_be_stuck_forever

  re .39
    
    <spoiler>
    
    the crystal sword is found in the castle (1st or second level i
    think)
    
    regards
    
    Phil

    I have just finished Kylearan's Tower, and I'm stuck. Again. I have
    the siver square and triangle, and the onyx key. Where do I start
    to look?
    
    He_who_wants_to_kick_some_Mangar_*ss

    re .41\
    
    <spoiler>
    
    at the bottom level of the sewers (at position N16 E17) is a set
    of stairs that go a long way up - if you dont have the onyx key
    you are placed in Night Archer street - if you have the key you
    come up inside the gates and about 1 square from the entrance to
    Mangars tower. Like kylearans tower once you exit the gates you
    must go down to the sewers to re-enter the castle - use APPORT ARCANE
    from the cellars to get to the stairs - saves wasted spells etc
    cast the spell and specify N=16 E=17 U=1 - this will place you at
    the stairs
    
    good luck
    
    Phil

    HELLLPPP!!!!!

    <HUGE POTENTIAL spoiler AHEAD>
    
        
    I am in Mangars tower (level III) and I cant find the stairs to
    level IV
    
    I have found a magic mouth which asks for the seven words 
    I came across an inscription somewhere else in the game which says

        <HUGE POTENTIAL spoiler AHEAD>
        
    THERE IS NO EXIT UNTIL THE SEVEN WORDS ARE SPOKEN
    
    I presume this refers to my current problem...
    
    I have found all sorts of inscriptions all over this level which
    give clues to my current prediciment but I am still stuck - you
    only get one chance to get it right - if you get it wrong you have
    to go down a level & then back up again.

        <HUGE POTENTIAL spoiler AHEAD>
        
    BLESSED,LOVE,PASSION,LIFE,ETERNAL,FOREVER,DAMNED are the words I
    have found in the clues on this level - anyone know
    
    (1) if all the above are correct and in the right order
    (2) how are these entered - one at a time or all together
    (3) are the words to be seperated by commas
    
    HELP!!!
    
    Phil 

    re .43
    You're on the right track. Some of your words are right, some not.
    You enter them one at a time, separated by <return>s. The mouth
    will continue to prompt for them as long as they are correct. 
    
    You can't get to the fourth level until you get all seven words,
    and even then, you still have to find the way up.
    
    BTW it helps to know that you can apport out at any time, but there
    doesn't seem to be any way to apport up past the second level.
    

    re .43
    
    since I have got the words from the clues in inscriptions everywhere
    could you tell me which words are correct and which are not
    
    thanks for the help on entering the words...
    
    

    I'd like to know to!!!
            
    Al      

    SPOILERS FOR THE SEVEN WORDS AHEAD ...
    There's one word in each of the clues, and I think that all of the
    relevant clues are found in Mangar's tower. I thought some of the
    clues were a little bit cute, but worth a chuckle or two when you
    figure them out. ... Look for literal info buried in the poetic
    clues.
    
    SPECIFIC SPOILERS REQUESTED BY .44, .45
    The 3rd, 6th and 7th words are correct ...

    I have all the seven words except the fifth. Could some please tell
    me it? I don't feel like OUCH!ing around for it on the third level!
    
    Dave (I've got a sword with Mangar's name on it!)

    Bard's Tale ][ is now available for the Amiga. Picked up my copy
    today, fresh off the UPS truck.

>    Bard's Tale ][ is now available for the Amiga. Picked up my copy
>    today, fresh off the UPS truck.

Ok, where did you get it???  Please, give me the phone number so I can order
it today!

Angel

    I got it from a software shop (Rennaisance Computerware) here in
    Colorado Springs. They got 5 copies in yesterday, all already spoken
    for. EA started shipping it last Wednesday so it should be propagated
    throughout the country by today or tomorrow.

Whats different from Bards Tale I? 

Just new adventures?

John

    Well I found it!  The software shop in Worcester, MA had several copies
    today around lunch time.

    Re:-1

    This version plays very much like BTI, but they added a lot of new
    things and the play area is not a city but a Realm with 6 cities!  Some
    of the new things are:

    - Over 100 different kinds of monsters
    - New spells, total of 79 spells
    - 25 dungeon levels
    - 6 entire cities
    - A vast wilderness to explore
    - A bank and a Casino
    - More strategy to fighting, distance to the enemy is now taken
      into consideration.
    - Permanently summon and name monsters into your party
    - A Sage that will give clues
    - Six different guilds for saving the game
    - You can use your BTI characters or start new ones.

    It looks realy good, they added a new class of magic user the Archmage
    with its own spells, and they look powerful.  They claim that anybody
    under level 14 won't last two minutes in this games, and they provide a
    starter dungeon to build up your characters.

    The best thing they added was a SAVE GAME and a LOAD GAME commands so
    one can save at any time, except during combat or when inside the
    real-time rooms.  I haven't slept much lately and I think I might as
    well give up sleeping now.

    Angel

    Oredered it from Memory Location on thurs and it arrived fri - not
    bad service.  I really like this game.  I spent most of the weekend
    (my wife was a little upset that I did little else) getting a group
    of characters up to level 10.  I feel like I have barely started
    the game as I am still in the starter dungeon.
    
    The game plays well and the addition of distance makes the combat
    seens more exciting.  Early on in the game I was able to summon
    a storm giant to come and aid my party.  He has been a big help.
    Kills anything he can get his hands on.  Hope I don't run into his
    kin anytime soon.
    
    I have one question about the magic users.  A strict reading of
    the manual says that when you switch classes you retain the knowledge
    of the previous class - only until the 3rd spell level.  Is the
    last part right???  If so, then it would seem useless to try and
    aquire any spells beyond the third level until you get to the last
    class.  I just can't believe this is right.  My conjurer is continuing
    on to get his 7th level spells before he switches to magician.
    
    Again, if you like hack and slash type games, then Bard's Tale II
    is highly recommended.
    
    David

Re.-54
    
    David

		You must complete at least three levels before you are
	allowed to change class.  You will retain the spells of all levels
	you attain when you change class.  If you leave a class before
	attaining all 7 levels you will not be able to go back to it and
	complete it later.

				JimBo ( Fenrod the 24th level Arch Mage )

		I have installed BardsTaleII on my harddisk and it seems
	to work fine, however, when I exit the game it Gurus every time
	with a non-aligned word boundry or non-existent memory error.
		Has anybody else seen this problem? Ideas?

							JimBo

    Okay, I admit it.  I'm stumped.  
    
    I'm enjoying Bard's Tale II.  It's a great game.  However... I can't
    seem to complete the first dungeon.  This is starting to get
    depressing.
    
    ***** Warning!  Possible spoilers follow *****
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    (Sorry about the blank lines instead of a <FF>.  This account is
    fixed to use an editor that doesn't know CTRL-L.)
    
    Anyway, I've found the clues that say "The winged-one can traverse
    the gap.", and the one that says "SAMEN NGHOITEN" (or something
    like that).  I've also found the clue that says what I seek is three
    levels down (found this on level one), and the one that told me
    to "...play the last".  I've explored ALL of the first and second
    levels, and all but one tiny patch of the third level.  I can't
    get into that tiny patch.  I've tried playing the last (Watchwood
    Melody) and walking around looking for a secret door to get in.
     I've tried casting the Phase Door spell to get in.  Phase door
    seems to have no affect on walls on the third level down.  I seem
    to be generally having a tough time of things.  
    
    So, I admit to my denseness.  Is the answer right in front of me?
     Am I missing the obvious?  
    
    You may consider this an official plea for help. (grovel, grovel)
     :-)
    
    					Thanks, 
    					John

    I haven't played in several months, so I'm a bit fuzzy on details,
    but...
            *** spoiler ***
    
    There is a magic mouth inside a small room (one of many such rooms
    together).  I think it says something about "things change".  Anyway,
    visiting this magic mouth will create the opening you seek...

    Okay that got me a couple of steps further, but...
    
    
    *** SPOILER WARNING ***
    
    
    Now I'm through the door and I make it to within ONE space of the
    stairs.  I'm asked for a key word before I can pass.  I can't find
    the KEY WORD!!!   I've gone back through the rest of levels 1, 2,
    and 3, but I can't seem to find any clues that make sense.  Does
    it have something to do with the "Seek the four cornered letters"
    clue?  
    
    Boy, if I can't figure out the starter dungeon, I'm gonna have a
    hell of time outside of the city!
    
    
    					John Boy

    Some of the puzzles in BT are simply plays on words.  How the question
    is phrased can be the (only) clue.
    
    You are not looking for a "KEY WORD", the voice says something like
    "speak the word to pass"...

    *** spoiler ***
    
    To which you reply:  PASSWORD

    Re .56 (Guruing on exit from game):
    
    A little late, but I just got a HD and a copy of BTII.  I see the
    same lousy behavior.  Actually I don't guru immediately, but usually
    the first DOS command I issue after exiting does.
    
    On a slightly different topic...  BTII and ARP are *not* compatible.
    I installed ARP a few days ago.  The next evening I decided to play
    BT.  It wouldn't even start.  After ripping my hair out I remembered
    that I'd set up ARP.  Either I'd left something necessary (like 'RUN'
    for instance) out of the ARP c: directory or the ARP ASSIGN command
    isn't the same as the DOS ASSIGN.  (My BT startup script contains
    only 2 assigns and then 'bard'.)

    
    But all in all, I enjoy the game so much that I don't *really* mind
    that I have to reboot afterwards.  It just would've been so much
    nicer if EA had kept HD owners in mind when they did this translation.
    
    
    Happy to be commanding my old BTI characters again,
    Gary

    how may folk out there have Bards Tale II??
    
    I just bought my copy (havent even finished BT I yet - loaned to
    my father - still waiting for him to find 1st dungeon!!)
    
    is there a note for BTII ?
    
    Phil

    re: -1
    
    I've just finished the first level of the first "real" dungeon of
    Bard II.  "Real" meaning, *not* the starter dungeon.   I'm finding
    it to be a blast, especially since I can put this one on the hard
    disk.
    
    I can't remember seeing a note for II, and I'm too lazy to look
    at the moment.
    
    Gary

    I've got it.  I finished the starter dungeon, found the sage,
    and travelled to Ephesus (sp?).  I just finished mapping out the
    town and got stumped by the locked iron gates, but had to put the
    game down.  We just moved to a bigger house and my wife thought
    it'd be nice if I helped with the move.  (Grumble, grumble, ..can't
    you see... mumble ... busy with this game...grumble.  :-)
    
    
    					John

I am currently working on the sixth dungeon.  I have a set of characters that
almost never get hit and the game is still fun.  I especially liked the snare  
of death in the 5th dungeon.

Have fun,
David

    well my interest waned somewhat, when I loaded my copy - and found
    I couldn't get past the initial adventurers guild - disk is stuffed
    I think. Rung my friend at the PC store - get a new one this weekend
    
    soooo.....start all over I guess
    
    Phil

    re: .64
    The purpose of the iron gates is to prevent you from stumbling into a
    dungeon where you haven't a prayer of surviving until you gain a bit of
    experience.  Seek your destiny elsewhere, the gates will not present a
    problem when you are truely ready to enter the domain beyond...

    does anyone else have the following proble with BT II...
    
    I got my disk back from the PC store - nothing wrong execpt the
    fact that I have to have 7 characters (ie ALL slots filled) in my
    party BEFORE I can enter the city. 
    
    Since one of the supposed features of the game is the ability to
    be able to summon beasts and save them as party members...
    
    What the hell is going on here????

    There was also NO documentation on introducing BT I characters into
    the game - found out by trial - and - error.
    
    to be quite honest - I think the documentation sucks! its nothing
    more than a tarted-up version of BT I documentation.
    
    The only thing that puts me off writing a nasty letter to INTERPLAY
    Productions, is that my copy of the game is distributed by some
    company in Australia - mabye they print the doc
    
    has anyone else with the BT II had these problems..?
    
    Phil
    

    re .68
    
    Yep I had the same problem with my copy bought the first day the
    game was released. I called Electronic Arts and talked to the
    playtester about it but he didn't seem too concerned. The workaround
    for this feature is to add all 7 slots and then delete the ones
    you don't want to take into the city.

    brilliant!!! - Thank you
    
    Phil

    I finally finished! Yep, I killed Mangar. I'll be glad to answer
    any questions about this games. I'd rather you ask your questions
    in replies to this note as opposed to email, since I check in here
    more often than there.
    
    Dave

    ok - umm I havnt played this for a while now and have just picked
    up on it again...I have just completed th4 4th level of Mangars
    Tower and found the portal to the next level...
    
    sooo - I have now completed 15 of the 16 dungeons in this game and
    have yet to find a "spell regenaration zone" (plenty of "darkness"
    anti-magic zones and other trouble spots - ^&*$%&!)
    
    where is one of the spots and is there one in mangars tower?
    
    cheers
    
    phil

    another question - there is aparently some sort of spectre snare
    on the 5th level of Mangars Tower....How difficult is this to beat??
    
    

	Hi,

	I've had both Bards Tale I & Dungeon Master for quite awhile,
	and upon first playing them i thought they were great !

	But after 2/3 weeks and not getting very far i gave up on 
	these. Having seen the depth of both games (in notes) when a 
	little futher into them, i have decided to start up again.

	As you probably all know when, after a couple a weeks they
	still seem the same as when you first bought them, they seem
	to lose their appeal .

	As i am not too good at these kind of games i tend to get
	extremely frustrated when, after mapping, i end up in a dead
	end and die (especially in DM !).

	Most of the problem seems to come from my mapping and i was
	wondering if anybody had any tips on mapping.
	Some other causes of problems is the 'hidden' things. How do
	you know where a secret passage is in DM without walking into 
	a wall all the time and causing damage to your characters ?

	Is there someway you can tell ?

	I have an ST, and would also like to know if there are any
	differences between the 2 machines for each game.

	If anybody has any helpful tips on these sorts of games it would
	be most appreciated in this direction.

	~lewis.

	a_soon_to_be_very_fustrated_DM/BT_player.

	N.B. 	I am posting this on both DM and BT notes for both
    		Amiga and ST.