Conference hydra::amiga_v1

    	Finally received Modula and created single disk version (install).
    
    	Spent much time creating an execute commnad file for automatic
    single disk creation.  I'm now at a crucial point since I really
    must consider a second 3.5" drive for a work disk or memory available
    for RAM.  With a spreadsheet and development language, I wish I
    didn't have to wait till Christmas (Sidecar) to evaluate my options.
    
    	Anyone out there that can recommend options?
    
    		o A 3.5" drive then dump A1000 for the A2000
    
    		o Get 68010/68020 processor in sidebox with megamem
    
    		o Get additional memory that will compatible with Sidecar

Can you offer your comments on the quality of the TDI Modula compiler, 
documentation, etc.?  Are there any limitations on its ability to interface to 
system services?

	Paul

    I typed-in the VAX Modula-II life game from LANGUAGE notesfile.
    The quality of the compiler error messages was excellant.  Once
    illegal underscores in indentifiers were removed and the special
    InOut IMPORT of [a non-std DEC routine] ReadLn was removed, it ran
    nicely.
    
    The rotating cube demo illustrated some of the extensive (complete)
    interfaces.  If anyone wants a PASCAL language that looks like ADA
    and BLISS in modularity and "C" in data-types - this is a serious
    contender.
    
    I'm writing my own ReadLn procedure.  Anyone have one already?

    In the vast sea of "C" programmers surely there must be a few M2
    users. Eh?
    
    I've had my TDI Modula-2 package for a week or so and I've found
    it to be a pleasure to use.  Realize, though, that other than some
    experience with a GOOD Pascal compiler on a 68000 based HP micro
    3 or 4 years ago, my compiler usage has been limited to minis, mainframes
    and the Commode-door 64. (The C64, as one might guess, is a less
    than lousy environment for good compilers.)  In other words, this
    compiler, though it may truly be excellent, is just this side of
    heaven for me. 
    
    As a some time Pascal programmer, I can appreciate some of the
    improvements that Prof. Wirth has made in developing M2.  The most
    striking thing for me was the lack of the irritating BEGIN/END pairs.
    The END's are still there but the BEGIN's have thankfully disappeared.
    (I realise this is more of a M2 discussion, than an M2_as_it_relates_
    to_the_Amiga discussion but hang with me.)  The improvements do,
    for the most part make the language more comfortable.  TDI seems
    to have done a decent job with the M2 "standards".  I've been getting
    familiar with the language by using a book titled, "Modula-2: A
    Seafarer's Manual and Shipyard Guide" by Edward J. Joyce.  Despite
    the cutesy title and lighthearted presentation, it's a wonderful
    intro to the language.  Valuable to both the novice and the experienced
    Pascal programmer.  Of course, I can't verify this since I'm not
    a novice, but I think one could learn from this book.  Overall it's
    a gentle introduction to the language.  (For one who is becoming
    intimidated with the volume of knowledge necessary to write a
    well-behaved Amiga program, I need all the gentleness I can get.)
    Anyway, so far the only thing that's bothered me about this implementation
    (had me scratching my head for awhile) is a minor thing which may
    very well have been documented in the manual or the release notes.
    I was unable to use INC(K); where K was of type CARDINAL.  K:=K+1
    sufficed.  There must be others lurking out there, but I haven't
    found anything bad yet.  I should mention that I've heard some horror
    stories about the earlier releases of this compiler  (I'm running
    2.2 I believe.)  The claim was that a few of the standard modules
    had severe bugs.  Haven't really notice any of this yet.  As I'm
    still learning the Amiga ropes, I'm not sure of the quality of the
    Amiga specific modules.  (I've yet to wade through C-A's tomes.)
    
    All in all, I guess this hasn't been much of a review.  I was mainly
    hoping to try to drag the M2 users out of the woodwork.  You are
    there, aren't you?
    
    Gary

    
    After trying to find Pascal for a while, I too bought the TDI Modula-2
    package. I've had it for a few months, but haven't used it yet because
    of intimidation about taking the Pascal to Modula-2 jump as well
    as a shortage of time. I just wanted to let you know there was someone
    else who has Modula-2.
    
       mitch

    re .5
    Glad to see it.  The jump isn't really that big.   The book that
    I mentioned before makes it all that much easier.  What is intimidating
    me are the ROM Kernal manuals and the Programmer's Handbook.  Sheesh!
    By the way, not 30 minutes after running off at the mouth about
    how the INC function doesn't work I managed to make it do so.  Figures.
    
    Gary

    I just got a letter from TDI telling about their latest enhancements
    for Modula-2. The most noteworthy is the upgrade for 1.2. The price
    was a little shocking though. At $49.95 for the developer's update,
    it adds about 40% to the original software cost. They are also selling
    a new manual for $9.95 and the old manuals must be traded in for
    the new one.
    
    Can they really justify $50 for the upgrade?
    
       mitch

    Yeah, I was hoping for something more along the lines of $20-25
    for the developers upgrade.  I'll reserve my judgement of whether
    it is robbery or not until after I see how well that new editor
    works.  I'm extraordinarily pissed about having to pay yet another
    $10 for the new manual, however.  Simmer...Stew....
    
    Gary

    1. I've been "trying to compile and seen the error message "Unable
    to extend heap.. When Modula starts I have about 390K. Do I need
    more RAM? It is a very short (20 line program).
    
    2. Is there a convenient EOF function like in Pascal? I don't see
    one in InOut and in Streams it is a boolean part of the STREAM record.
    This is no problem, but it soen't seem to be that easy to use Streams
    for mixed characters and numbers. 
    
    Thanks.
    
       mitch

RE: .9

         1) Yes! you need more memory or else you have to boot
         your machine with a bare minimum. (No workbench & no
         addbuffers in your startup sequence). 
         
         2) in the InOut module, there is a variable Done : Boolean.
         it stands for the EOF function.
         
         -Greg.

    Re: .9 & .10
    
    1) I'm an unfortunate owner of a 512K/1 drive Amiga.  I too have been
    having trouble compiling just a short little program to bring up a
    simple requester.  It compiled with no problem under 2.00. I've noticed
    that sometimes I'm able to compile one time but that execution leaves
    something allocated and I lose just enough of my RAM to get the
    aforementioned heap message.  I wish they'd warned me about this
    before I sprung for it.  I'm quite displeased with TDI's idea of
    a compiler.  I *love* Modula-2, but TDI's implementation is enough
    to make me scream.  What I wouldn't give for a Turbo Modula.  

    OK I cleared that first hurdle but the Debugger_Notes.txt is somewhat
    less than explicit on how to use the debugger. It says to Import
    Trapper into the program which I understand. How do I compile with
    the references option and link with the dtable option? Thanks.
    
       mitch 

    re .11: TDI says that their editor uses some memory (and doesn't
    free it up later I guess) which is why it is possible to compile
    once and then have the can't extend heap message when compiling a second
    time. They said they're going to send a bug fix in 5-6 weeks.
    
    Also they said they're supposed to receive the manual today so I
    guess we'll be getting them real soon now too. 
    
       mitch

    re .11: Whoops. The answers to these questions are in the 3.00 update.
    Who would have expected? 
    
      mitch

    I recently received a letter from TDI congratulating me on my purchase
    of the developer's Modula-2 3.00A.  (Thank you for sending us 65 more
    of your hard-earned dollars. :^( )  They also thanked me for supporting
    their products.  Most significant was the following amazing remark: 
    
    "Within a few weeks we will be sending out an enhancement disk designed
    to improve the compiler."
    
    Do my eyes deceive me?  Are they actually going to send us something
    for free?  Granted, it'll probably be just bug fixes, which should
    be free in the first place, but it could be the start of some actual
    support.
    
    I've been using the compiler a great deal in the last few months
    inspite of the fact that I have to reboot periodically to recover
    memory stolen by the (ecch!) editor.  (I still haven't gotten the
    2M I've been lusting after.)  It's only by the grace of ASDG's RRD
    that I've kept my sanity.  Perhaps the so-called enhancement disk
    will contain some fixes for the editor.  It would be nice if it
    didn't swipe memory, and if it would work more times then not. 
    So many times I will get into it to track down a compiler error
    and will find that the editor has inserted a *bunch* of spaces at
    the top of the source file and none of the errors are marked.
    Rebooting usually cures this.  (Thanks again, ASDG!)
    
    Still haven't found anything wrong with the compiler or linker.  I
    like them very much.
    
    Gary

    Today I got a little surprise in the mail.  TDI actually
    sent me a copy of Modula-2 release 3.01.  Interesting that they
    really did send me something for "free."  I haven't bothered to
    set it up yet.  I may not even waste the time.  Sigh.  I've been
    using Chris Gray's Draco compiler for a few months now, and I've
    gotten very attached to it.  But I just thought I'd let any of you
    who might still be using TDI's compiler that you might be getting
    a package one of these days.  They claim to have fixed some of the
    bugs present in the 3.00 release.  The Developer's release comes
    on 3 disks this time.  One of them contains a good bit of source
    code for some demos.  If I find anything of interest in this release
    I'll report it here.  Don't hold your breath.
    
    Gary

Re: .16

I share the feelings of the author of .16 that people should avoid TDI.
They have a nasty habit of taking your money before they WRITE the
software they are selling.

I bought the V3 update back when it was the only Modula around.  They
took eight months to send the software.  They claimed that the delay
was due to problems in duplicating the software.

Since TDI looks to be the poorest of the three Modula compilers, I
don't think anyone will suffer from boycotting them.

    When I bought my Amiga 500, I purchased a second hand TDI V2 compiler.
    I worked with the compiler about six months and became really
    frustrated with how slow it was.  I purchased the Benchmark Modula
    2 compiler a couple of weeks ago and have really enjoyed it.  The
    compilation and linking speed are 10 times faster and make writing
    code without a source debugger bearable.  (The documention for
    Benchmark said that they have a source debugger but Memory Location
    didn't have one when I picked up mine.)  
    
    David

    Sigh!  Makes me wish I'd waited for a year or so.  I have nothing
    against Modula 2, (which is suprising considering that TDI is my
    first experience with it) but I just can't see spending another
    $200 for a language I already have.  I'd much rather put that money
    towards memory or a different language.  
    
    What I get for buying into the game at such an early date.  :-)