Conference 7.286::sports_91

>    Oh boy, if Fireman did buy the Pats, then it would become America's
>    YUPPIE team.  I mean, Reeboks are the yuppiest shoe there is (and one
>    of the worst made, FWIW).

My Reeboks hoops shoes that I wear around are excellent for one reason:

	they were the least expensive shoes I could by to knock
	around in 8^)


JD, I think you have some latent hostility towards Brie.  Have you
ever though of seeking counseling to deal with these feelings?   ;^) ;^) ;^)

    
    JD,
    
    	I'm the epitomy of a NOPIE (drive a big ole Ford 4X4 pickup,
    	chew tabacky, hunt, etc).  The bestest pair of tennis I've
    	ever had are Reeboks.  Comfy from day 1 and have held up
    	quite nicely (they now see service while I'm mowing the
    	yard).
    
    	Geez, nexted thing you know, you'll be saying aluminum bats
    	are un-American.  ;^)
    
    Claybroon

 Rebooks suck. I know 5 or 6 different people who have bought "THE PUMP"
 only to have to return them for a blown valve stem, gasket or whatever.
 The things have been on the market now for two years and they still can't
 get them right.

 Plus most Rebooks I've seen peel away too easily....

 When you want the best buy CONS!!!!!!!!!!!

 When you want to give your feet a rest buy New Balance...


 Nikes are as bad as Boks

 mike

    	I find my MacGregor's are very good for driving to the Sittin'
    Bull for lunch...

    I guess its all in how you wear them.  In Dec of 1984 I bought
    10pairs of reebok sneakers (mostly gifts but 4 pairs were for me).
    I was working for Rockport Shoe at the Time who had just been bought
    by reebok so they were giving us a great deal for X-Mas.  I bought
    there top of the line BBall Sneakers (Store $65 my cost $12), as well
    as there running shoe, tennis shoe (like the style) and another cheaper
    pair of Hi-Tops.  The BBall sneakers were still in use at the begining
    of this summer Thats 5 full seasons of use, when used strictly for
    BBall.  I played approx 50-75 times per season.  The other pair of
    Hi-Tops are gone as well as the running shoes, but I still where the
    Hi-tops/Tennis shoes to beat around in.  I guess the moral is if you
    where your $65 Sneakers to say mow the lawn and shovel the driveway
    chances are they will not last :-)... I love the WeeBoks
    								Mike

I had a pair of Converse All-Star leather basketball oxfords that I 
wore for about seven or eight years, before they finally got so beat
up I had to toss them...

The only running shoes I'll buy are New Balance.

I've got Reeboks and Cons to run around in.  Both are good.

Rugby boots are by Adidas, and damn, are they good...


'Saw

    Whatever happened to "PF Flyers"??????
    
    JaKe
    

�Rugby boots are by Adidas, and damn, are they good...
    
    The only thing I don't like about them is that it very quickly feels as
    if one of the studs on the ball of the foot is trying to bore it's way
    through my foot.  They get uncomfortable long before they wear out. 
    They were one of the least expensive pack boots on market until they
    decided to bring out the Flanker II and up the price by $20 to get to
    what everyone else seems to be charging.

    
    You have not lived until you've had a pair of quilled Ostrich Tony Llamas
    or Lucheses (sp) of your feet. These things are soft as butter.
    
    Cadzilla

>    The only thing I don't like about them is that it very quickly feels as
>    if one of the studs on the ball of the foot is trying to bore it's way
>    through my foot.  They get uncomfortable long before they wear out. 
>    They were one of the least expensive pack boots on market until they
>    decided to bring out the Flanker II and up the price by $20 to get to
>    what everyone else seems to be charging.


I play on The Rock.  EVERY cleat feels like that's what it's trying
to do 8^)

When I travel, the fields are so soft I hardly notice my feet......

Don't know what I'll get the next time around....


'Saw

Try slapping some fottpads in the bottom of your boots to lessen the cleat
through the foot feeling....

I've gone back to molded 13 cleat shoes instead on the old 6 or 8 screw in
models because of this problem...

The last pair of expensive shoes I got were Reeboks...they fell apart in 6
months of light running use....Now I go to Marshalls and grab whatever brand 
that's cheapest and fits and I don't feel bad when they are fried after 6 months
to a year...

I do the same thing for cleats now also..go to Big 5 and grab a brand name for
$25 and wear them for 2 seasons until they fall apart....

About the only footwear I don't go cheapest on is ski boots...you need all the
controll you can get during a high speed run.....

I suppose if I was a runner I'd buy good quality footwear for that also because
of the cushioning you need to save your knees.....


Metz

    I know a guy who ran track in collge, and from there went in to 
    the athletic footwear biz before the big boom hit.  He was a well
    known manufacturer's rep covering the upper midwest when a he was
    approached by a struggling Firestein (?) who gave him a 5 year deal
    on Reebok for 5 statesReebok finally went direct and he's out of
    a gig, poor dear.  He lives in a $700,000 house on Lake of the Isles
    (such a house would be 2 million on the east coast), has a pad on
    the shores of Maine (where he's originally from), sponsors his athletic
    wife on the master's pro bike racing circuit, and is sniffing about for
    a new Firestein-style gig.
    
    At a dinner part a month ago I axed him if the Pump was a fraud.  He
    answered by saying what the hell differnce it made, sure it was, and
    so is the air bubble in Nike's shoes, ftm.
    
    Big money in those shoes.  
    
    re: Shoes
    
    One thing I've found is that thick soled hoops shoes are disasterously
    slow for things like raquetball, where I wear cross-trainers.
    
    I like Reebok best for quality, but Nike has the best designs.  

yeah,

 sure you do T....


 Reebok and quality are mutually exclusive...I've got a buddy whose folks are
from Korea (where most Reebocks are made) and his folks get them at $10 per pair
for most of the shoes. I'm sure pumps are a bit more but not the $100+++ the
youth around here pay....


Metz

Re the rugby boots....

Actually, I have found some liquid filled insoles which I might try.
My bro has a pair because he's on his feet all day in the OR and he
says they're great.

And actually, by the time I'm done playing, the bottoms of my feet 
don't bother me anywhere near as much as {insert other body parts here}.

'Saw

    I do use insoles in my rugby boots and they help somewhat.
    
�I've got a buddy whose folks are
�from Korea (where most Reebocks are made) and his folks get them at $10 per pair
�for most of the shoes. 
    
    Are you sure they are Reeboks?  Isn't there alot of counterfeiting goin
    on?

    My original anti-Reebok comment was made as my experience working in
    athletic shoe stores.
    
    FIrst, before Reebok's became the Yuppie's choice
    (pre-Firemanstonestein) they were a decent shoe.  And inexpensive. 
    Modles were all about $18-29...
    
    The Yuppie versions are not well made.  Take aerobic shoes.  Avia makes
    a vastly superior aerobic shoe.  As do other brands.  Reebok makes the
    worst aerobic shoe on the market (of the major shoe companies). 
    Running - Reebok's are inferior to ASICS, Nike's, and other brands.
    
    Reebok hoop shoes and tennis shoes are the best shoes Reebok makes.  
    Neither is top of the line in either category, but are better made then
    their shoe line in other 'sport' categories.
    
    Common complaints were that Reebok shoes break down quickly, and they
    also don't offer as much support.  
    
    Of course, each person is different, and we all have different
    experiences with shoes - which is why to some folks, Reeboks are
    wonderful shoes.
    
    Personally, I cannot wear Nikes.  My foot doesn't feel good in them,
    and I think Nike's are shoddily made.  
    
    JD

MAc,


 These were Reebok's not counterfeits.....Most clothing is incredibly inexpensive
in Korea for some reason. I got my wife a hand made leather jacket for $100....


Metz

       Look closely, thay might say 'Reedok'. They do the same thing with 
    'Rolox' watches.
                                 Denny

I bought a pair of Reebok Pumps in April {okay, I was enticed by a
promotion Reebok was doing where if you let a Spandex-clad workout
girl fit you for a pair, you'd get a $15 off coupon {for the shoes,
not the girl}}.

By mid-June, after playing basketball 4-5 times a week outdoors, the
soles of both shoes started coming loose at the back and one of the so-called
lace supports on the side had broken.  Now both shoes are flapping about
4" off the back, making a noise much like MrT's thighs slapping together
as he jogs down the street.

I'll never buy another pair of Pumps.    Unless the Spandex girls come
over to my house personally and BEG me to. :-)

Back in high school, I wore Converse white canvas... but I wore them so
long that they were grey-tan and had zero tread and several holes.  At
one JV basketball games, the parents of my teammates took up a collection
to buy me a new pair.  

      I have worn several brands,  and I have a pair of Reebok reverse jam
    hi-tops,  and I love them for BBall.   I prefer a cheap shoe for just
    everyday use.  Something like Trax.
    
      I didn't like my converse, 'cause those wore out in 6-8 months.  I
    had LA gears,  and those were great until they were "broke" in.  They
    lasted as long as the cons.
    
      I got these boks cheap since one of my sisters sells them at sears, 
    and hey they will exchange or refund them if you have problems.
    
      Nikes are best for running for me.
    
      Never tried BK or New blc.
    
    		Tim

Reebok has never really made a decent running shoe.  The quality on them stinks - 
even the top of their line wears out in no time.

I agree that the pump and Nike Air is nothing more than gadgetry to try and sell
shoes.  Nike used to be a good shoe, but then they came out with the air thang, 
and the quality of the shoe went down the tubes.

The best b-ball shoe I ever owned was the Adidas Superstar.  I had a pair for 
six years of hoops, and even have a pair now for kicking around.

For running it's stricktly Asics for me.  Why? just because they fit the best.

=Bob=

    I disagree about the Pumps....  I have a pair of Pump cross Trainers
    for indoor soccer and I love `em....  I've had them for 6 months so
    far and they are showing no signs of wearing out.  They have the best
    lateral support of any shoe I've ever worn.  I also have had Nike 
    Cross Trainers and they were great as well.... No problem with quality
    from either shoe for me..
    
    Big Game

I have a pair of pumps with 5" heels.  I love to wear them when
I dress up in my black nylons and....

Oh, wait a minute.  Ooops.

You were talking about Reebok pumps.

Sorry.....

;^)

    `Saw....  I'm rolling........
    
    Big Game

Need to get some new cleats for my Adidas Flankers.

Does Godek's or Rugby Imports sell just cleats?  (I've got one that's
got to be darned close to being disqualified).....


'Saw

�Does Godek's or Rugby Imports sell just cleats?  (I've got one that's
�got to be darned close to being disqualified).....
    
    Yup, they are $5 or $7/set.  You have a choice of alluminum alloy,
    rubber, or plastic.  Rubber is good for hard ground, plastic is general
    purpose, the alloy is good for soft ground (and rucking ;^) ).

>    Yup, they are $5 or $7/set.  You have a choice of alluminum alloy,
>    rubber, or plastic.  Rubber is good for hard ground, plastic is general
>    purpose, the alloy is good for soft ground (and rucking ;^) ).


Alloy it is.....


As an aside, and this probably belongs in 8.*, but I had the best feeling
in the world on Saturday when we pushed Providence's scrum backwards
so hard and so fast it collapsed with them all on their asses....


'Saw

    
    I thought about it but I guess I don't need cleats for my Dexter
    bowling shoes.  Sometimes getting to the line to that turn loose that
    wicked Rhino or u-dot requires one footed traction.
    
    A top of the line dexter will last you until you are ready to change
    styles.
    
    Roy L.

    Speaking of Dee, my son thinks he's better than Jordan. used his
    Christmas money to buy Pumps (Yucch!) 'cause Dee wears 'em. Took down
    his Larry and Michael poster and got himself the Dee Dunk poster from
    Wal-Mart to take their place.
    
    Rich
    

    No, Doc, he got the darned black version Pumps. The ugliest things your
    ever saw. Picture this scrawny little kid who is too tall for his
    weight with these clodhoppers on his feet. He's already had to exchange
    them twice since Christmas. The Foot Locker guy tells us that they are
    designed only for basketball. Well, my son is 8 and has never played on
    a wooden court. Uses his sneakers for everything.
    
    I tell the clerk, so, what am I supposed to do, buy him Basketball
    pumps, Cross training pumps, jogging pumps, farting around in the
    backyard pumps? The guy gets upset and tells me that the warranty runs
    out in 2 weeks.
    
    I've got a real problem with this whole sneaker thing. When I was a kid
    (Yeah, I know, they had covered wagons to take us to school) they had
    canvas sneakers. That was it. Today, Reebok, LA Gear, British Knights,
    Nike, Addidas, Puma, Pony et al have super sneakers. The problem is
    that they allow the styles to be applicable for adults *AND* kids. What
    the heck advantage can an 8 year old have with an inflatable bladder in
    a sneaker?
    
    These sleazy corporations know that peer pressure will create $$$ in
    sales so they go ahead and push the products on kids. As I said before,
    my wife and I refused to buy them for him. He did pretty good,
    money-wise, for Christmas and decided to use his cash on Pumps. (Woke
    him up real quick when his wad went for 2 lousy sneakers). 
    
    From now on, though, I will exercise my many duties as a Dad and not
    allow him to waste money on that kinda crap.
    
    Rich
    

    > What the heck advantage can an 8 year old have with an inflatable
    > bladder in a sneaker?
    
    I bet Dickstah cain answer that! :-)
    
    Hawk
    

>    From now on, though, I will exercise my many duties as a Dad and not
>    allow him to waste money on that kinda crap.
    
    I'm no father and I am not trying to tell you how to raise your kid,
    Rich, but isn't it his money to waste if he wants?  And if that doesn't
    make sense, how about this...he could have used it to buy drugs.
    
    	--dan'l
    

       I think Red Auerbach is right. All these new fangled 'athaletic
    shooz' are the reason there are so many foot injuries in the NBA.
                                  Denny

    
 >>   I'm no father and I am not trying to tell you how to raise your kid,
 >>   Rich, but isn't it his money to waste if he wants?  And if that doesn't
 >>   make sense, how about this...he could have used it to buy drugs.
    
      The kid *is* only eight years old not exacly old enough to be fully
      aware of the value of the dollar. His money or not it's a parents job
      to be sure he makes wise decisions after all you wouldn't let him
      buy eighty bucks worth of candy would you ? What's more, no eight year 
      old who isn't Macaulay Culkin needs a pair of hundred dollar sneakers.
      Especially at the rate kids grow out of them. Last time I went to buy 
      some running shoes some twelve year old kid was in the store with his 
      mom and he's looking at all the sneaks that were eighty bucks and up 
      and this kid only wanted them for gym class. Besides that he looked like
      the kid who's picked last for everything. I guess he thought the only 
      thing holding him back were his sneakers. Uh-huh. I felt like telling
      his mom that he'd be just as well off with forty dollar sneakers but it 
      wasn't any of my business. TV and peer pressure create a be cool or 
      be cast out atsmosphere and being cool costs. So this sloth-like twelve 
      year old comes into the store under the illusion that not only are
      a pair of $110 Nike Air Huaraches going to transform him into a gazelle
      but they're also going to make him BMOC. Wrong again. 
    

    dan'l, I'd do the same as Rich, but to be honest, I wouldn't have let
    my 8 year old spend that kind of money on Pumps to begin with.  Not
    saying he's wrong, I actually think it's ok.  Obviously, his son
    learned a valuable lesson (ie. big wad o' money shot).  IMO, it's a
    parent's duty to try and steer their kids in the right direction. 
    Sometimes, the methods can be harsh, but I guarantee you that these
    kids become alot smarter for it.  And, using the money to buy drugs
    instead is irrelevant here.  If a kid wants to buy drugs, the kid will 
    get the money somehow, even if the kid spends all he has on Pumps 
    first....
    
    Ah, the joys of parenting...  :-)
    
    Hawk
    

    
    My daughter seems extremely excited about the pair of Little Mermaid
    sneakers we got her for about $11.  Perhaps Rich could get his son a
    Beauty and the Beast pair, if he wants something a little more
    masculine (although I believe The Little Mermaid is standard apparel
    on the soccer field).
    
    Brews

    Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle sneakers cost about $13.00
    *AND* they have glow-in-the-dark thingies on the sides!
    
    Major attraction for my young'un!
    
    Added bonus = velcro straps, no shoe laces!
    BTW, I bet there's an entire generation of kids who will make it to
    their teens and never know how to tie their shoes!
    
    pump that!
    
    I remain,
    wearing wingtips right now,
    Kev
    

This topic hits close to home in one regard - I supplemented my livlihood for
many years by working at various athletic shoe stores.  Whenever I saw some
young kids with parents, and the kids wanted to buy the mucho expensive shoes,
I tried to persuade them to buy cheaper shoes.  I'd generally talk with the 
parents about why the expensive shoe wasn't good.

Some real tips from a pro:

*  Aerobic shoes, which are popular with the ladies, are NOT MADE to be worn
   outdoors.  Repeat.  NOT MADE to be worn outdoors.  They are especially
   not made to be worn in the rain or the snow.  They do not hold up very
    well in that type of use.  If you MUST have a pair of shoes to knock around
   in, buy some running or walking shoes  - but not aerobic shoes.

*  RUnning shoes - especially those built for racing - are not really made
   for general, all-purpose use.  While they've made some great improvements,
   running shoes are NOT MADE to withstand lateral movement - such as experienced
   while playing hoops, netball, football, volleyball, etc....Don't waster yer
    money on a_expensive pair of running shoes unless you are going to use them
    for running.  And don's assume that the most expensive is the best.

*  If you are buying a running shoe to use for running/jogging, do some 
    thinking.  How  often do you run?  What surface do you run on (Track? Roads?
    paths? Cement?  Lots of HILLS???)   Do you know if you pronate?  Supinate?
    Also, pay attention to build.  A good salesperson in a running store (like   
  
    I was) should know that larger, heavier runners should not wear certain shoes.
     All of these questions can help you make a decision.  Also, if you run
     enough to have to buy these shoes a few times a year - buy them mail
     order.  You'll save a bundle.

*   Some hoops shoes hold up to street ball a lot better than others.  My
     experience at the last shoe store was that the Reeboks and the Nike's
     fell apart before the Cons.  

*   If you have pains in your hips, lower back, knees, etc., while exercising
     or walking - it could be your shoes.  Pay attention to the pain - if
     it is worse after wearing a certain type of shoe - it may be time to try
     another type of shoe.

Everyone has different comfort levels - so get a shoe that feels good.

As for the kids - wearing the wrong shoe can hurt the kid in the long run.

JD

    
    That mutant turtles thing has me concerned.  My daughter is a few
    months past 2 (she walked, talked and toddled, before Lindsay, btw 
    8^}), and I don't mind this mermaid thing, but I don't want to have to
    buy her any TMNT.  I think they are dumb, but she already is talking
    about "tuh-tuls," and I can't figure out where she gets it.  She
    doesn't watch TV, except for a few videos we've bought her.  Do they
    wisper these things in her sleep, or sumfin?
    
    Brews 

    Brews,
       Sounds like Droods got to her!
                                     Denny  8^o

    An interesting discussion on shoes has started up in the Celtic Bashing
    topic.  I thought it worthwhile to set it up in it's own topic.
    
    So here we go:  The Official Sports Equipment Topic.
    
    Have at it.

    I can see what people are saying w.r.t. Rich, but my parents always
    said "the best lesson is a bought one", and kids who learn the value of
    money and hard work to earn that money are a hell of a lot less spolied
    and grow up better than ones who expect something for nothing.

    So what are cross trainers really good for?
    
    JD, you got any recommendations for a Big Boy that does conditioning
    work (jogging, indoor & outdoor biking, stair machines, lifting, etc),
    and wants something to bum around in?  A few years ago Nike came out
    with a running shoe for the 200+ pounders.  I just have a hard time
    spending the money the shoe companies tell me I need to in order to
    have the right shoe for the job.

    Addendum to JD's comments :
    
    Also take a dim view towards cross trainers. IMO, they can be bogus. I
    wear test shoes (mostly hoops) periodically for Reebok, and XTR's tend
    to 'blow out' if you are really serious about hoops AND running AND
    weightlifiting. Most XTRs have poor lateral support. Reebok made a good
    step in the right direction when they broke down XTGing into different
    groups, and tried to tailor shoes to those areas, but I'm still
    skeptical.
    
    As far as hoops shoes goes, my Pumps pulled away from the soles after
    only a couple of months - damn good thing I got 'em for free ! Lessor
    reeboks seem to take a pounding much better. 
    
    However, Reebok is a *narror* shoe - better than before, but if you are
    a 9, you might want to get a 9 1/2. Overall, Converse probably makes
    the strongest shoe, but also the heaviest. It's up to you as to what type
    of tradeoffs you want to make ...
    
    Doc

    I broke down a couple of years ago and bought a pair of Avia hightop
    basketball shoes for use exclusively as indoor basketball shoes.  I got
    a good deal since I bought them at a "surplus" store.  They had them
    because they were the models from the previous year.

My Nike X-trainers have held up well, and been through everything from 
weightlifting to biking to stairmaster to running to hoops to softball to 
aerobics to couch sitting.  After 2+ years they need to be replaced, but 
now they have so many kinds of X-trainers (never mind all the others mfgrs) 
I'm just too damn confused to care.  I think I'll buy a pair of Chuck Taylors 
and spend the difference on Sam Adams.

Scott

    Ya know, my son DID learn a heck of a lesson from the Pump episode.
    He's really ticked that he had to spend that much money "just for a
    pair of sneakers". He has already been scoping the sneaker section at
    TJ Maxx and Marshalls for the time he needs new ones.
    
    He also didnj't give me a hard time about the baseball shoes I got him
    for Little League. Doesn't sound very significant on the surface but
    last year he was talking about how he needed Nike spikes....some of the
    other kids have 'em. Well, I think the Pump deal really opened his
    eyes in that high priced footwear doesn't mean best quality.
    
    Rich
    

    Rich -
    
    Sounds to me like your son has learned the lesson early and well. 
    Kudos to you for letting him spend his money the way he wanted, and
    then following up by pointing out the consequences of that decision to
    him.  More than once with my son I said "I'll pay $n toward shoes/ 
    spikes/whatever, but if you want something that costs more, you must
    pay the difference".  I was usually willing to pay for adequate, but
    not superior, equipment - as he was an adequate but not superior
    athlete and seldom outwore gear before outgrowing it.  Sometimes peer
    approval was worth the extra money, sometimes it wasn't.  The
    eye-opener for him was when he wanted that year's "name" brand, and the
    *shoe salesman* (revered by the local kids) refused to sell it to him. 
    What he wanted ran wide, and my son has always worn an A-width shoe. 
    The salesman told him the shoes he wanted would wear blisters and cause
    him to be unable to push off properly for the hurdles.  He's never gone
    for the current "in" thing since, but pays attention to what is right
    for him.
    
    A&W

    
    So what size shoe does Goofy wear?  From the 'toons, those boats look
    pretty big.
    
    Dickstah
    

    Fer kids,
    
    
    K-Mart sneakers rule!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    JaKe
    

Mac -

Most people don't need to spend the big bucks for shoes - but the athletic
shoe companies sure do a great job of selling folks that they need them.  

New Balance, because of the varying widths, can be good for larger folks.

To tell ya the truth Mac, for just knocking around, in the running shoe
variety, you may want to try out the mid to bottom level - or entry level
shoes - that retail from 25 - 50 bucks.  You should be able to get something
in the 30-40 range.  For ASICS, for example, it would be there 'Runner' series,
or better, the "GEL 100" or GEL 110.  I don't have a catalog here, but I'm
sure I could find others.  

I had a pair of Nike Cross Trainers for knock arounds way back in about 1988.
They wore okay - but I got them at about 35% of list price - or else I wouldn't
use them.

Brooks used to make some good heavy duty shoes - but don't know if they stil
do.  I know I can't wear Brooks - they don't feel right...

In my experience, (and I did some testing for Saucony and other companies), 
Reeboks wore the worst of the shoes.  They were good - if not great -  back in
the late 70's and very early 80's.  But when they became mass produced popular
shoes, the quality seemed to have shifted.

I've always been happy with AVIA products - though many folks are disappointed
when they buy Aerobic shoes and use them for everyday use.  They fall apart.

JD

I was looking at a flyer for Hermans last night and it had a big athletic shoe 
sale on the front, about 20 or so different athletic shoes shown.  So what 
happened happened to sneakers??  Is that a non-PC term these days?  An entire 
page of sneakers, and the word "sneaker" is not used once, but there are plenty 
of tennis shoes, walking shoes, aerobic shoes, basketball shoes, athletic 
shoes, cross trainer shoes, etc.

8^)

Scott

    
    Wow, talk about de ja vu!
    
    I worked in a sporting goods store selling hockey, soccer and baseball
    equipment.  The kids would come in for skates and automatically
    gravitate towards the top o' the line skate (at that time $160-$180 for
    a junior size.)  Knowing that their little feet were gonna grow faster
    than they could break the skates in, the parents would cringe and look
    to me for help.  Most kids realized the validity of what I would tell
    them about why they *didn't* need the expensive skate, but it is
    definitely a difficult thing trying to get them past the peer
    pressure/status concerns.
    
    
    
    Cath
    
    

       I have a pair of Avia 'athaletic shooz'. When I got them home I
    noticed they said Volleyball shoes on them. Cain I be arrested if I
    wear them anywhere but the volleyball court?
                                   Denny

    What happened to PF Flyers and Keds black canvas hightops?
    
    Actuall, the thing with kids sneakers is that the lowest price stuff
    from K-Mart or Zayres will, most likely fall apart real soon. So, it
    does pay to find a brand that costs a little more ($20-$30) that will
    last for at least 4-6 months.
    
    Heck kids use their sneakers, not the brakes, to stop their bikes. They
    are always dragging their feet, scuffing around, playing in wet grass,
    etc. Kids are HARD on sneakers. My son was amazed when I told him I
    usually got 18 months out of a pair of sneakers!!
    
    Up until the Great Pump Episode (GPE), we had usually gone to Marshalls
    or, when we lived in Mass, the Reebock or Puma outlets, for the kids'
    sneakers. We had the worst luck with Reebok since they tended to wear
    out faster. Especially at the junction of the toe rubber and leather.
    
    Rich
    

    
    >Cain I be arrested if I wear them anywhere but the volleyball court?
    
    Yes. Fortunately, in this state it is only a Mr. Meanor. 
    Cross-training across state lines has more serious implications.
    The worst you could get is a summons to appear in Vollyball Court,
    where the volleyball judge will levy a small fine and you'll be back
    on the streets the same day.  Be sure you bring street shoes so 
    you don't get bagged again as soon as you leave.
    
    Dickstah
    

       Remember 'Red Ball Jets'?
                                    Denny

    re .26
    
    I tried to tell ya Rich ! Reebok's do that (leather pulls away at the
    toe), the more expensive - the mroe likely. If I didn't get them for
    free, I probably wouldn't buy a pair over $50.
    
    BTW, could somebody explain to me what special reqs a XTG shoe would
    have for weightlifting ?
    
    Heck, I don't lift with my feet ... I can probably wear loafers ... :-)

    
    	After some 20+ years of buying 'sneaker' and using them in
    competition and for general use, here are some of the guidelines I've
    found helpful for 'me'.
    
    	If I'm buying a basketball shoe, I buy one that has the sole
    stitched and not just glued.  I have found that the shoes that stitch
    their soles to the leather body of the shoe last much longer than those
    that simply glue the two together.  I also look for the hardest heal or
    insert I can find since most of the pressure when jumping and running
    is consentrated on my heels.  I've had problems with my heels and the
    only way I've cured that is to buy basketball shoes without a 'spongy'
    heel area.  Also be careful of the mix of mesh/cloth and leather. 
    Usually the mesh/cloth does not hold up well over time.
    
    	If I just use these shoes for hoops, I usually get 3 years out of
    them which isn't bad.  I have a pair of Nike's that are 4 + years old
    and I can still use them for hoops.
    
    	For general kickaround of work or play (casual) I like a lower or
    mid level running shoe.  I like running shoes for everyday use to work
    and to kick around in.  They seem to handle the constant impact to my
    feet when walking really well, and I can get a decent pair between
    35-50 bucks.  I also like the fact that running shoes are very light-
    weight and that can mean a lot if you do a lot of walking around.  But
    I wouldn't use this shoe for any strenuous sports activity except
    running.
    
    	As for cross trainers, I have owned a pair on Nike's (solid black)
    for 2 years that I wear when officiating.  These shoes have been great.
    Of course I only use them for officiating and nothing else, but they've
    held up well over the last 2 seasons of winter and summer basketball.
    They really weren't a first choice, but you don't know how hard it is 
    to find shoes that are all black that can handle court abuse and at the
    same time hold a shine.  And yes, most basketball officials shine their
    sneakers!
    
    	As for my kids, since their feet grow so fast which usually means 
    you only get about 6 months max out of a pair, we stick to the cheaper
    shoes found in various dept. stores such as K-mart and Bradlees.  We've
    had good luck with most of the shoes and since they can only wear them
    for about 6 months, it pays off.  It also helps that your
    brother-in-law happens to be a foot doctor and can help you decide what
    is best.  
    
    	I do refuse to pay the price though.  I've seen plenty of sneakers
    come and go and I just can't get myself to plunk down 100 bucks for 
    shoes!  I'm come close, but chickened out.  Most of the hype is just
    that.  I buy shoes that are comfortable and fit my requirements,
    period.  If that shoe happens to cost 80 bucks so be it.  Afterall, if
    your feet hurt, it makes your hole body miserable.  So in the long run
    I'd rather be comfortable than fashionable.
    
    
    								bill..g.
    

    >I wear test shoes (mostly hoops) periodically for Reebok, and XTR's 
    >tend to 'blow out' if you are really serious about hoops AND blah 
    >blah blaaah
    
    So then, Reebok's design team has gotten so sophisticated that they
    now reach deep into the heart a the Boston suburbs to test their 
    basketball shoes on a individual who is not only totally void a hoops
    talent or any other kind a athletic talent but also has zero prospects
    of ever developing any.
    
    This thing has gone too far.  Perhaps some overwrought Reebok engineer
    wanted to examine wear put on a shoe by a 125 lb male coming down from
    a 4 1/2 inch jump.
    
    Haw haw haa.
    
    MrT

    Whatever happened with the grudge match between that genius
    Gronowski and Midnight?  
    
    In other words, did Midnight show up?  If he did, that's all
    I need to know.  I'd pay good money for a video tape of Groaner
    jamming seed on the hapless Midnight, I'd slip that tape right
    in there with my special collection for late night thigh-shuddering
    viewing pleasure.
    
    MrT

    Gee, I get my sneaks at Payless Shoe Source, where, if you look hard
    enough, you can find shooz for about $12.00.  
    
    
    Then again, I ain't no shoo guroo.   :)
    
    
    kim

    Goose, you use XTG's for reffing ? What is your opinion of the
    'official' (no pun intended) Converse shoe offered ? And who makes a
    good *hi-top* all black basketball shoe ?
    
    Doc - Who got by just fine with a pair of $25 Voit's he got from
    Zayre's ...

      Wasn't this rathole discussed about 4-5 months ago in some other
    note?
    
      As to other sports equip,  I like Rossignal or PRE skis,  Raichle
    (sp?) or Soloman boots,  and Soloman or Tyrolia bindings.
    
      Of course all this has to be from medium to top 'o line.
    
    	Tim

    re-1  or in some guys cases (no names mentioned) can't find!

    
    Hey "T",
    
    	I resemble THAT sized remark! ('cept I have a bigger jump - ONCE
    dunked da ball)!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    grrrrrrrrr
    
    I remain,
    defying gravity in the past,
    Kev
    

    Since this is a general sports equipment note, there's a company called
    Hart known for it's sail-boating equipment.  When I sail, I sail with a
    Hart on...
    
    Hawk
    

    
    Doc, I'm not sure what the number is on my black Nike cross trainers. 
    I'll have to check.  Hey, I look for all black first then look at the
    mfg. and then the price tag.  
    
    Personally, I haven't seen the all black converse shoes.  I know
    converse makes an all black with white converse logo for the college
    and pro refs, but we're not allowed to wear them.  Our shoes have to
    be all black!  I guess if I wanted to use them, I could polish over the
    white converse logo.
    
    A lot of guys on my board wear Pony's or Avia's.  Avia makes what
    appears to be a decent all black shoe, but I've never tried a pair on.
    
    Over the last 6 years, I've only had to buy 3 pair of shoes.  Two pair
    were Spotbilt (all black) and they wore well, but they went to a
    narrower shoe and 2 years ago when I needed new shoes, they felt to
    tight on my feet.  Hence the look for a new Mfg. and that's where Nike
    fit the bill.  The shoes were like 65.00 and they fit my foot real
    well.  Only problem now is that I can't find the all black variation
    anymore.  All I can find are the bright colors.  But I'll once again
    be looking come fall, or I'll just buy a new pair of inserts and live
    with the Nike's for another year.  Afterall, these shoes now have a 
    really good shine to them, and I just hate the tought of starting over
    on another pair of shoes!
    
    
    								goose
    

    >Since this is a general sports equipment note, there's a company called
    >Hart known for it's sail-boating equipment.  When I sail, I sail with a
    >Hart on...
    
Sounds to me like they ripped off (or vice-versa) a sailmaking company in 
Portland, Maine.  I used to have a t-shirt with their logo, "Sail with a 
[insert company name here] on" and it used to get some great looks when pulling 
into marinas on the Maine/NH coast.

The name of the company?  Hard Sails, what else?

Scott

Okay, I read half of the replies, so I'm gonna reply now.

If between .23 and .44 you started talking about Lawn Dwarves, the Sex
Habits of Droods and Cows, or stuff like that, please forgive me....



I've got a pair of Rebook X-Trainers to lift in.  They're great for
squats cause they support REALLY well.   No way would I run in them though...


'Saw

	Puma's, specifically from the Puma Factory Outlet up in Kittery, Maine
are EXCELLENT sneakers for kids who are outgrowing sneakers at a rapid rate.
The price is excellent, usually $20-25, and the quality is there. 
After 3-4 years of experimenting, we have gone to Puma's exclusively for
the kids, and they are outgrowing them before they are tearing them up. They
also have some good baseball and soccer shoes. The drawback - location, and
they don't always have alot of different styles to choose from.

    
    	BTW, Consumer Reports newest issue has a article about running
    shoes and rates both men and womens models.
    
    	As usual, there were some surprises, and their 'best buy' went for
    68.00 which I felt is reasonable in a market where running shoes can
    run to almost 2 bills.
    
    
    								bill..g.
    

We used to have a Sports Equipment note - where did it go? - so I'll put
this here.

I just got this mail message. Evidently LA Gear in its effort to stay
afloat is violating Ts & Cs about the middle east boycott.

                    DIGITAL INTERNAL USE ONLY Document


With the addition of Wescott International to the Denied Parties List, we have
further evidence of the U.S. Government's commitment to Antiboycott
Compliance. Wescott has been denied export priviledges for a period of ten
years; another U.S. company based in New York was fined $300,000 last October
which remains the highest fine associated with this violation to date.


- On February 18, 1992, the U.S. Department of Commerce announced that the
  U.S. Company L.A. GEAR, INC had been charged with 46 violations of the
  antiboycott provisions. The Commerce Department alleged that L.A. GEAR
  provided the Government of Kuwait's Boycott Office with the names and
  locations of 22 of LA GEAR'S manufacturers, in violation of U.S. Antiboycott
  laws, in order to obtain approval for two Letters of Credit.


To protect Digital, every effort must be made to familiarize yourself with
your organization's Antiboycott Compliance procedure and escalate ANY
questions.