Conference 7.286::sports_91

>	I'm going to decide this weekend if I want to continue to
>	moderate this conference.  I'm going to decide if I want to
>	keep accepting the responsibility for this powder keg with
>	a lit fuse.  In fact, I'm going to decide whether or not 
>	I even want to continue to participate at all, since I think
>	that perhaps this conference has outlived its usefulness.

	I'm in agreement with Frank on this. Except I'll take it a little
	further. I KNOW I don't want to be a moderator any more in this
	conference IF it continues with the type of activity I've become
	aware of lately. I've been a read-only moderator for about 6 months, 
	and I've neglected my duties, here, leaving it up to Keith and
	Frank and a couple of others. For that I apologize. I skipped
	over the junk note for quite awhile. When I went in and actually
	read the stuff, I was extremely disappointed at the turn it had taken. 
	It has gone around the bend in terms of unacceptable language and
	in bad taste. We have noters arguing over what degree of grossness
	they've reached as compared to others.

	I'll put it another way:  People have been noting in here as if their
	audience was the Playboy Channel or Showtime latenight. In fact,
	their audience is ABC, NBC, CBS prime time. Think about it.
	Know your "potential" audience, not your "intended" audience.
	That is ultimately what we are responsible for.

	Like Frank, I'll be thinking this thing through over the next few days.
	I'm sure it would be no great loss if I relinquished my duties
	for another reason, but it sure would be for this reason.

	Jim M.

    I still get a lot of enjoyment out of reading on the subjects I'm
    interested in, most particularly with the college football season in
    full swing.  The discussion is particularly fun because some of us
    hail from the schools in question and bring that perspective in, plus
    college football doesn't get overanalyzed to death on the tube and in
    the papers (at least in New England) so it's not necessarily redundant 
    information being submitted.  I anxiously await debating "Who's #1"
    again this fall.
    
    As for the other stuff, I've always tried to ignore it as best as I can
    so it hasn't affected the parts I do enjoy one way or the other...
    
    glenn
     

    I too think there's a lot of worthwhile discussion in this conference
    -- otherwise I would have deleted it a long time ago. Yeah, a lot of
    this stuff gets boring real quick, like the 200 notes on who did/did 
    not say goodbye to someone who was/was not leaving, etc. I suppose
    that's the biggest advantage of the "nexted unseen" key.
    
    As for junk notes, there used to be at least some rhyme or reason to
    them, ironically enough. It used to be a regular thing on Fridays when
    there would be a discussion of LA Law. Although a lot of us know each
    other in person, or know each other in notes, many others might not see
    humor in some of the tangents/ratholes we tend to follow. I guess it's
    best if people use discetion whenever possible, and if someone IS
    offended, send the person mail and deal with them, not personnel.
    
    We all enjoy this conference one way or another, so lets keep it around
    for a while.
    
    Tom  

    
     I just started particpating in this notes file in say the last month
    and while I don't like the wood-o-meter remarks or the idiotic lusting
    after 15 year-old Jennifer Capriati there is plenty *to* like. Maybe
    Frank's well written basenote is what was needed to shape this conf-
    erence up. It's just a shame that it *was* needed because as far as I
    knew DEC only hired adults. No flames please 

 There are a lot of different "symbolic" ways to view this conference.
 
 At times, at its worst, this conference is a high-school locker room
 with the endless sexual banter, ethnic jokes, bathroom humor, and
 blatant disregard and disrespect for one's neighbors.    We're in one
 of those ruts right now.
 
 At other times, about in the middle of the range, SPORTS is a local
 sports bar.  People act a little older and the back-and-forth banter
 is a bit more mature.   The talk is more about the games and the
 players themselves although sometimes a bouncer or two is needed to
 step in between some folks who've had a "few too many", so to speak.  
 It's not the best of conditions but it's not terrible, either.
 
 This conference is at its best when it resembles a panel of experts
 discussion.   People offer informed ideas and opinions and they
 accept counterpoints and rebuttals in an intellectually honest
 atmosphere.    They're polite to each other and the non-sports banter
 is almost invisible.    The panel might be a bit dry and colorless
 and you might get bored with it after a while but it is the purest
 form of SPORTS.
 
 That's a simplistic look at things but I think it covers a wide
 enough range from bad to good.   We should always aim for the high
 road, settle in the for the middle of the road for the long-haul, and
 absolutely refuse to take the low road.    That goes for each
 individual note and the conference as a whole.
 
 I've been in this conference in all its different locations (ASABET,
 OURGNG, MILVAX, probably others I've forgotten, and now CAM) since
 1986.   I do not want to leave it.   The "addiction" is complete and
 has been for years.   
 
 But the temptation to go "cold turkey" has rarely been more
 compelling than it is right now.   Please, let's get back on track. 
 And, if we can't, then I'd rather remember it as it was, thank you.
 
 Bob Hunt

    Re: too few topics being discussed
    
    When CAM gets a direct link to the backbone and performance improves,
    I'll start cross-posting the NBA info that everyone longs to read. 
    Especially the Suns info! ;-)

    Sports goes through these cycles.  This most recent one was, perhaps, a
    little worse than normal.  I hope the conference stays, as there isn't
    anywhere else that the possibility for the *range* of topics exists
    that we have here.
    
    My rule of thumb on noting is to read everything with the idea in mind
    that my *next* boss is reading it.  What impression do I want that
    person to have of me when my resume lands on his desk?  Before he's
    even read it, if he reads notes, he's formed an impression of me.  And
    I want that impression to be positive and professional.  
    
    A&W

>	 Sports goes through these cycles.

	The worst cycle is during football season.

Mc

    
    	As always Bob Hunt, right on target.  Great note.
    
    	I sense a *hangover* here from losing some of our more
    	famous noters..........
    
    	Claybone

	RE: References to conference shutting down:

	NO ONE  has threatened to shut the conference down. Most
moderators are fed up with the content and direction of the notesfile.
Frank and I have and others have discussed withdrawing as moderators.
We have not really discussed deleting the conference. It would AT
WORST have to find a new home, IF Frank stopped moderating and IF
he didn't want to continue to have the conference on his node. The 
conference belongs to everyone, and some of us have volunteered to 
moderate it. We are saying we don't like the tone and direction,
and MIGHT not want to be associated with the conference IF it
continues. Not all the moderators have said this officially, either, 
just two of us.
	Hope this clarifies things a little. We're not trying to hold
anything over anyone's head, just honestly voicing our displeasure.

	Jim M.

I did a lot of thinking over the weekend about this conference.  With all
the rain and cooler weather, it was the perfect time to hang indoors and
think.


From a personal point of view, and I've not discussed this with any of the
other mods, I've decided to stay on moderating sports.  

I enjoy the file.  The problem of late was that I was enjoying it for
a lesser percentage of the time than usual.  


But, again I'd like to echo my original sentiments.  I'd like any voicing
of my opinions of certain policies here at DEC to be done with personnel
at a time of my choosing, and not because SPORTS causes it.  Also, I'd
prefer not to have people judging me because of the content of SPORTS.

The easiest way of doing that is to keep sports clean, police ourselves,
and keep the JNing in the JN topic.

If everyone does that, I'll stay here, and SPORTS can stay here forever.


fw

	Frank, I agree with the base note, but if you are truly interested in keeping this
conference about sports (and fun!), then let's shoot the junk note.   There are other
notes conferences (soapbox etc.) for that non-sports stuff.

Mac (mostly)RON

Nope, won't shoot the junk note.  It's a proven fact that JNing is gonna
happen in here.  By corraling it in the JN note, it provides everyone
one place to NEXTED UNSEEN.

I want a cleaner conference, not a sterile one ;^)

'Saw

    I agree with the virtues of Junk Notes. This conference has a wide
    scope of participants with unique perspectives and viewpoints. Often
    people start out with sports-related discussions only to have other
    issues coming up that do not directly relate to sports, yet are worth
    talking about, i.e. lawsuits in sports ---> lawsuits in general --->
    America's "sue first, ask questions later" preoccupation. At some point
    in the sports note someone says "OK take it to the JN topic and lets
    get back to the topic," which is exactly how it's supposed to work.
    
    If you don't want junk notes, hit "NEXED UNSEEN"
    
    Tom

      I would like to see this stay, and I don't care 1 way or the other
    about Jn.   This conference always had problems during football season, 
    which I know I am guilty of pounding people on a personal level,
    players and noters both.
    
      I agree about the "boss reading" this attitude,  but I sometimes get
    caught in the bashing, and before I know it,  well the rest is
    histo....
    
      This has been the cleanest since a few "main" bashers/slayers have
    left.  I rememeber 3 years ago.  It wasn't a good site to read.
    
      Heres to KG.
    
    	Tim

Personally, I think 'Saw has basically nailed it.  What we need is a re-focus on
common sense.  Most everyone in here is intelligent enough to know when a note
pushed the boundries of good taste, and when it crosses it.  If we all think a 
little more before entering a note (I also get cought up in the moment, and 
enter things I probably shouldn't), we should have no problem.

I think it would be a mistake to eliminate the junk note.  I think it, as well
as the very nature of ::SPORTS allows us to get to know each other more than 
other conferences.  While I only have met a couple of people from the conference
in person, I feel like I know many of the folks in here.  I can't think of 
another conference where this is true.

One more thing:  thanks to our current moderators for the work they put in to 
    the job.

=Bob=

�>	 Sports goes through these cycles.
�
�	The worst cycle is during football season.
    
    The recent events came a little early in the cycle.  Usually the
    non-sports related stuff comes up after the SuperBowl in that lull
    between sports.  The stuff that usually comes up during football season
    is at least sports related in that it involves bashing of football
    teams and their fans.  The stuff that prompted me to act has not been
    sports related whatsoever.

Well, in the few days since last week this file seems to have taken a
very large turn for the better.

I'd like to commend everyone who is taking the time to "think" for a few
seconds before hitting the return key to enter a note.

Let's try and keep it that way....

thanks,
frank

    Well I agree with the basenote and alot of the replies in here. 
    Because there's so much junk in here, and many of the notes are not
    even sports related at times, I pretty much read only the Charger 
    and NHL notes and then type set seen.  
    
    Live from Charger Central.......Glenn