Conference 7.286::sports_91

    Friday night.  The bad news is you can buy a "Battle of the Ages" Satin
    jacket for $125.  The good news is Don King doesn't get a cent of it.
    
    Dan

I'm kind of pulling for George Foreman.  I'd like to see him take it.
He probably won't, but it would make one helluva statement if he did.


Go George!!!!

'Saw

    I'll go out on a limb and predict that Foreman will knock Holyfield
    out.
    
    Mark.

    If Foreman has any chance, it's via the quick KO route.  Should this go
    more than a few rounds, methinks Big George will run out of gas bigtime.
    
    re .0, the real honors graduates of the P.T. Barnum school are the
    cable TV companies who are charging and getting $35 per pay-per-view
    customer....
    
    
    py

    	Unless the Walloping Groumet is about 1000% better than the
    last time I saw him on USA, Holyfield is going to knock him all the
    way back to Houston.  I admire the fact that he started this comeback
    to help the unfortunate kids in Houston, but youth usually wins
    over age in these type of events.  I would love to see a forty year
    old guy with a paunch win the "heavy"weight title of the world,
    but it ain't going to happen.  Evander in 5.  I thought I heard
    that Paez is on the undercard.  Anyone know if this is true?  
    
    				/Don

    
    A truly sad day for Professional Boxing. Holmes is making a comeback
    and I suppose Jake Lammotta is Tinkering with the idea. Now that Lenord
    has  deceided to call it quits and FINALLY get out of the limelight 
    (Except when he not calling a press conference for his past
    overindulging in cocaine) I Guess this is the next 3 ring event.
    
    What does the year 1995 hold for boxing, gee I can't wait !!
    
    
    -TH 

    
    	Hey, I started the note but neglected to enter my thoughts...
    
    	As much as I hate what boxing has become (another thing in the 90's
    we can blame on the 80's), I like George.  He's big and slow, but the
    old axiom of "a punchers chance" still exists.
    
    	Anyone seen the adds for this fight?  This is about the friendliest
    "fight" I've ever seen.  
    
    	Actually, Foreman is in a great win-win position.  If he wins, it
    will be the comeback of alllllll-time, and if he loses, he will still 
    be a winner in the eyes of the public for a galant attempt.  That is
    if he last more than one or two rounds.
    
    	So, my heart wants George to win, but my head says the younger,
    faster and more mobile Holyfield will win by KO around the 7th.
    
    
    								bill..g.

George has got to knock the guy out early.  It would also help him to
clinch whenever he can and use some of the weight on Holyfield.

But, in the past (I went over the record, and he did fight some stiffs
early) George has all KOs and one decision in his comeback.....


'Saw

    	I always crack up when I hear people talk about how boxing has
    become bad.  When was it better?  When guys took a dive or carried
    a fighter for a certain number of rounds?  At least, to my knowledge
    King only killed one guy.  The old time boxing bosses would top
    that figure in one week.  The business of boxing was always in the
    gutter.  The sport can still rise above it though.  Buster beating
    Tyson, Hagler vs. Hearns.  Sorry, but I don't think things have
    changed that much in boxing, except that now the fighter at least
    gets some of the money he deserves.
    
    				/Don

I'm watching the "event" at a friends Poker and fight night party. I'd never
pay $35 to watch it alone but it should be a good time for a group of people.

I hope foreman kos holleyfield in the 4th round but I doubt it. I'll be happy
if he lasts until the 7th round. I admire George for his comeback effort and
I think he's a riot to listen to in interviews. I think he'd make a great
actor after his boxing career is finished....

Either way it's got to be better than the Ruddock-Tyson "battle" that wasn't
allowed to run it's course.....


Metz
 

    Foreman's gonna knock poor old Evander silly! Foreman will be able
    to take Evander's best shots (provided Evander can even get to
    George's head, cause he ain't gonna hurt George's blubb....eh..body), 
    but can Evander take Foreman's best shots...??....this will be the 
    deciding factor IMHO. Holyfields only chance (again IMHO) to win this 
    one will be to run from George for 10 or so rounds and hope the big
    guy tuckers out. The second he decides to exchange punches with
    George it's over!  Foreman by KO in whatever round he makes his
    first solid connection.                                      
    
    Carlos  (who's in Holyfields generation, not Foremans)
    

Heard Foreman preach the other day.  IMHO if he punches as well as he
preaches, I'm thinking ol' Evander's gonna be needin' a whole lotta healin'!


8^)
'Saw

    re. -1
    
    To be sure, the preacher's gonna be doing some "laying on of hands",
    but unfortunately for Evander it won't be a healing experience. :-)

    Carlos                                                    
    

    I wouldn't mind seeing old George win.  One thing is for certain - he's
    livened the place up.  He's one great interview.  Man, I'm still
    laughing at some of his lines.  And I love the interview when he's with
    his cows "Hey, I thought I raised you to be a better cow than that" is
    a classic line, I almost had_a_run to get the DEPENDS out.  
    
    JD

Well, what won me over was when he was chopping wood.  I really liked that.

I'd like to see him do it.....surely "wood"....


'Saw

    Saw,
    
    Oh yeah, the wood chopping was good too.  At the rate he was going, ol
    George was a_never going to get through that log!
    
    JD

    Unless Holyfield goes soft and holds poor George up for a while, this
    one should be over faster than the Holyfield/Douglas fight.  I don't
    care how big he is, I just can't see Foreman taking continuous shots to
    the face and hanging in there if that's the way Holyfield wants to
    win it...
    
    For all the conspiracy theorists out there, though, a Foreman win 
    would be the biggest boon for boxing since Ali's comeback.  Since
    Holyfield doesn't seem to command a whole lot of respect at the box
    office anyway, why not take a fall for, say, $10 million and the
    promise of a rematch, and *really* get this pay-per-view cash cow
    pumped up?
    
    glenn
    

    Glenn, the cynic in me says you're right.  But the boxing fan in me
    says that there's no way Holyfield's chin can withstand the force of a
    blow by Foreman.  I don't think it'll take a dive.  I really believe
    that Holyfield's youth will prevent him from "boxing" Foreman.  As soon
    as Evander gets impatient with his inability to reach Foreman, he'll
    get sloppy.  
    
    And that's when Holyfield's lights will go out.
    
    Mark.

    Mark, I could see that happening if Tyson was in the ring, but
    Holyfield has shown patience in the ring, and a good punch.
    
    If Foreman didn't have much stamina at 25 (when he fought Ali), what
    makes you think he'll have it at 41 ?
    
    Foreman may win a round or two early, he will probably rock Holyfield,
    but if the fight gets into the 7th round, it's lights out for George,
    and it won't be pretty ...

I agree if the fight goes 7+ rounds Holyfield will take it.  But I want George
to win it, I like the guys style.  Ill predict forman in the 5th round TKO, if
not it will either be stopped in the 8th or Holyfield will get the decsion.
									MaB

 Like Metz it's poker and the fight and hopefully before Manhattan's or
 another such establishment. The only way George wins is if Evander gets
 real stupid and leaves himself wide open. George's punches are like the
 post office, it eventually gets there. I figure 3 rounds at most...

 mike

    I agree with the two previous noters.  I really like Big George,
    but he just doesn't belong in the same ring with Holyfield.  I
    can't imagine this lasting as many as three rounds.  Easy payday
    for Evander.
    
    NAZZ

    I said 6-7 rounds because I'm feeling merciful. I'd be suprised if it
    went past 4 rounds ....

    
    I like the charisma that George brings to this fight.
    During the weigh-in he stopped to take his hat off so he would be a 
    little lighter.
    
    I think Evander will win.  He has been playing straight man to
    Foreman for such a long time he will get even in the ring.
    
    I think it was Evander or an ESPN reporter who said that George's
    chin is really strong.  It got that way from all the talking he has
    been doing.
    
    \pjb

I'm having a few guys over to watch it.

These days, anything that without Tyson and King is a breath of 
fresh air.

If you're in the So. NH area and wanna stop by, drop me a line...

daryll

    Hey PAL, cop a new p-name.  I used that one years ago.
    
    Mark.

    
    	Well, I guess I'm in.  Seems my rich(er) brother-in-law is paying
    for the fight so it looks like I'll pay him a visit and watch the
    fight.
    
    	In a way, I hope George wins if nothing more than to silence
    critics that say he's to old.  After catching some more ad's, I was
    amazed that Archie Moore never won the title until he was 39, and then
    he only kept it for 9 years!  At 48 and still fighting, that's pretty
    amazing.
    
    	If George wins, it'll turn the boxing establishment upside down!
    Then, as we all knew, the rankings will mean even less.
    
    
    								bill..g.
    

       George has a strong chin because he has 3 of 'em!
                                    Denny

    > After catching some more ad's, I was
    > amazed that Archie Moore never won the title until he was 39, and then
    > he only kept it for 9 years!  At 48 and still fighting, that's pretty
    > amazing.                       
    
    Yeah, that was as a light heavyweight against God-knows-what
    competition, though.  In his spare time as a heavyweight, he got his
    lights put out by Marciano and Patterson, but was allowed to retain his
    light-heavy belt.  Still, boxing down at the Y at age 48 would be 
    impressive.  Unfortunately, Foreman ain't no modern marvel of medical 
    science like Nolan Ryan.  If anything, his body is older than his 
    chronological age would suggest.
    
    glenn
    

   I thought Archie Moore, after his comeback, went something like 38-3,
   with losses two to Marciano, and one to Ali?

   Mike JN

    
    Holyfield in 4...
    
    B.A.

    
    I'll predict Holyfield, winning a unanimous decision after going the
    distance.
    
    O.K, so I can't cheat the date stamps.
    
    Some meandering observations:
    
    The National Anthem was disgraced once again.  Cripes, doesn't anyone
    sing it normally anymore?  This one was done by "The Hallugeon Sisters"
    or something like that, and went sorta like "Oh, say, can you see
    [doo-wop, doo-wop-wop, shoobie doobie doo doo wop wop]  by the dawn's
    early light...[shoobie doobie wop wop, bomp bomp a-bomp, a ramma-lamma
    dingie-dong-ding papa um mau-mau, skadiddly bop-bop, down doobie-doo,
    sha-na-na ramma-ramma ramparts..]..."  Well, you get the picture.
    
    Both these fighters are really tough dudes, taking some really heavy
    punches.  Just the breeze from these was knocking people over in the
    front rows.  Holyfield is young, quick, and is in as good a shape as
    anyone in the world.  George did extremely well, IMO, to go the
    distance.  No disgrace there, although I thought it was clear that
    Holyfield had the fight won barring a KO by George.
    
    The lady that was doing the unofficial scoring between rounds seemed to
    have it a lot closer than it should have been, and I believe this was
    done deliberately to make the fight artificially more interesting than
    it really was.  The announcers were equally guilty of this,
    particularly in the seventh round where halfway through they were
    calling it "historical", and "one of the greatest moments in the
    history of boxing."  Puh-lease, you don't have to insult the viewers by
    trying to brainwash them.  Let them figure out for themselves whether
    they think they were hosed or not by pay-per-view.  The announcers
    really went overboard I thought trying to convince the audience that
    they did a good thing.  Sorta like a used car salesman praising the
    beautiful color and velvet seats on a car that hardly runs.
    
    All-in-all I'll give it a thumbs up.
    
    Dickstah
    

Me too, I'd give it a thumbs up.

I was going to put a note in predicting a Foreman victory in 2 or 3 but didn't
get around to it...Funny enough, it was in the 2nd where it looked dangerous
for Holyfield...

Also, I couldn't believe that Foreman made it out of the 9th alive!!  Talk 
about saved by the bell.

The end looked like something out of Rocky with the two of them hanging on
to each other!!  In that sense, we have to give lots of credit to Foreman
because he must have known that he was down on points, needed a KO to win,
but had little or no punch left.

That Holyfield is quite a little muscle machine, my God...

Boxing is back in my good books after a long absence.

rick

Forgot to mention that it was the first non-KO fight that I've seen in a while
that wasn't stopped prematurely in my opinion.

All too often it seems that a couple of good punches are enough to get the Ref
to stop it.  No one wants to see anyone hurt seriously, but I hate it when the
fight is stopped and the loser is standing there perfectly lucid wondering what
the heck's going on.

rick

    One of the most enjoyable fights I've ever witnessed.
    
    The 2nd, 5th and 7th rounds were highlight film material.
    
    Mark.

    I give a THumbs up for forman...He did a great job....Just like any
    sport you can say if if if....but Holyfield must have siad his prayes 
    before this fight, there were some Forman rights that just missed and
    may have sent holyfield a sleeping....Great job by foreman only letting
    up near the ends of the rounds and taking chances then...Good thing to
    a couple of times holyfield had foreman rocking at the end of the round
    and DIng Ding... Anybody know when the rematch is ? :-)
    								MAB

    
    For once the fight was well worth the price, but I think the last 2-3
    rounds were too dead for the fight to be registered amongst the
    greatest of all times.  I was looking forward to the possibility of Big
    George just coming out flailing in the 12th, but he had nothing left
    and Holyfield also didn't seem to want to force the issue, being well
    ahead on points.  But where was all that conditioning and endurance the
    high-tech Holyfield was supposed to have at the end? 
    
    I don't think Holyfield did anything to shake the idea that he likes to
    catch too many punches with his face.  As powerful as Foreman may be,
    he still looked pretty slow and I think a real "boxer" (as opposed to
    puncher) would have had much less trouble evading Foreman, getting in
    and then out quickly without sustaining much damage.  We'll see, but I
    don't like Holyfield's chances against a quicker Tyson...
    
    glenn
    

 Agreed Glen that if George had had anything left to mount an attack in the
 last three rounds it would have been a classic. Still a great fight overall
 with both fighters showing plenty of heart. While Holyfield does seem to
 catch too many you have to be impressed with his legs I mean they never 
 buckled. Before this fight I would have said Tyson over Evander easy now
 I'm not so sure. Plus Tyson has shown that he can be fustrate and isn't
 so rock hard. Buster Ko'ed him and Ruddock definately had him shooken up.
 
 If he could get Angelo in his corner for a match with Tyson, I'd really 
 like his chances...

 mike 

    What were the final scores on the judges' cards?
    
    
    py

    Tell ya what, the post game interviews were classics.  George Foreman
    has at least given folks like me a reason to think that boxing might be
    fun to watch again.  I was getting sick of the same folks all the time.
    
    ANyway, glad it went the whole 12, and I'm still rolling at some of
    George's post fight comments.
    
    I still like the one about his future "Maybe I'll open my own fast-food
    franchise.  I know it'll make money, cuz I'll eat all the food!"
    
    JD

    I dunno, Dickstah, I liked the National Anthem...
    
>The end looked like something out of Rocky with the two of them hanging on
>to each other!! 
    
    I thought Holyfield was hanging in because he knew there was no way he
    was going to lose the decision and saw no further point in walloping
    Foreman upside the head.  I think a few times throughout the fight,
    once Evander saw that he wasn't going to turn out George's lights,
    that he resisted giving out extra punishment.
    
    It reminded me of when Larry Holmes fought Joe Frazier's kid, Marvis. 
    He was asking the referee to come in and stop it.  When the ref
    refused, he pummeled the kid a few more times and asked him again.  It
    wasn't on that scale, but it was similar.
    
    Dan

    I agree George looked awfully slow, but Holyfield said afterwards 
    that he's faster than he appears.  Since he was in the ring with him, I
    tend to give him the benefit of the doubt.
    
    Very entertaining fight anyway!
    
    Mike

No, Hawk, I agree.

I mean, I don't dislike Whitney Houston, but I really didn't see why everyone
was having an orgasm over her rendition of the Anthem.  It didn't do a lot
for me.

I like our national anthem.  Critics have always claimed it's about war, but
if anyone took time to read the words of the poem, they'd know it's about the
flag, and not about war.  However, the melody is not really singable and
all that stirring, when you come right down to it.  I guess I'm just a
traditionalist when it comes to hearing the anthem.  I like it pretty
straight.

The song that really gets me going is Ray Charles rendition of America, 
especially the verse he starts with (the 3rd I think) which we rarely
ever hear....

    re .46:
    
    > The song that really gets me going is Ray Charles rendition of America, 
    
    Me too 'Saw.  This IMHO is what oughta be the National Anthem.
    
                                       
    py

Well, being the purist that I am, I'd not vote to change the anthem, because
if you read all the words and think about them, it is a stirring song, 
but "American The Beautiful" is wicked cool too.

And Ray Charles does such a good job with a song.  Ever hear his rendition
of "Blues in the Night"????  Superb.....

'Saw

    My personal favorite National Anthem was John Kiley on the organ at
    Fenway Park and (before they started having a singer) at Boston Garden. 
    He was consistently under a minute on his rendition and I've timed him
    as quickly as 50 seconds.  He's the only person I know who could do two
    anthems in under 2 minutes.
    
    I believe the National Anthem before every sporting event is a
    meaningless and empty ritual and I don't see why a sporting event
    should be treated any differently than a play.  While I enjoy listening
    to a good rendition of the Anthem, I feel it should be saved for
    special occasions.  When done, I feel it should be as quickly and
    painlessly as possible.
    
    John

    re .48 (yeah I know I'm getting off on a tangent, but what topic in
    here doesn't):
    
    The problem I have with the Star Spangled Banner isn't the words; it's
    the tune.  With a range of an octave and a fifth, it's difficult for
    even a trained singer to sing, much less Joe Average Sports Fan.
                             
    
    Getting back to boxing, what's next for George Foreman?   Was this a
    one-shot deal, or will George press on in the hopes of getting another
    title shot down the line?
    
    
    py

   Docker manyzeros reminded me the other day about the Marvin Gaye
   rendition of the National Anthem at the all Star game back in  ???
   (83?)

   Very awesome stuff.

   Mike JN 

    >Getting back to boxing, what's next for George Foreman?   Was this a
    >one-shot deal, or will George press on in the hopes of getting another
    >title shot down the line?
    
    Are you kidding?  What George can do now is be more selective.  The
    money from the bums of the month he was fighting won't matter.  You can
    rest assured he'll fight Larry Holmes after Holmes disposes of Berbeck.
    
    What's the rush?
    
    Dan

 And if they quit playing all those different national anthems during
 the Olympic Games medal ceremonies, there'd be a helluva lot less
 political turmoil surrounding those events, too.
 
 Bob Hunt

 The only one I can say I've truthfully enjoy whenever I have heard it is
 Grover Washington's version on the sax....

 mike

    re Bob,
    
    I've been an advocate of that for YEARS.  The IOC is even more
    spineless than the NCAA.  At one point, some athletes requested to
    march under the Olympic flag - no country - just in the spirit of the
    Olympics. HA!!!  The IOC said NO WAY.  They talk about brotherhood of
    man (like so many do), yet they can't imagine athletes without some
    flag emblazoned across their chests.   I've always thought that any
    country that boycotted an Olympics should be banned from the next one,
    but their athletes could compete if they wanted, under the Olympic
    flag.
    
    Of course, who would pay for the Olympics then?  I mean would Pepsi and
    NBC and MacDonalds give two hoots if they couldn't show close-ups of
    broad shouldered American Swimmers or long-legged sprinters, with the
    crowds chanting USA-USA-USA in a show of patriotic jingoism??
    
    Ah, but I digress.
    
    Re Cars and UNLV players 
    
    I heard it was BMW's.  Guess it depends on your paper.  I never have a
    problem with this allegation.  Heck, everyday I see 16 year olds
    tooling around in Mercedes or BMW's or other fancy cars that mommy and
    daddy gave to them for learning how to go on the potty.  Heck, at least
    these guys are doing something to earn the cars.
    
    The more I think about it, the more I wish the NFL and NBA would have a
    minor league system, thereby freeing colleges from playing the role.
    
    JD

Decent fight up until round 9. After that Hollyfield carried Foreman until the
end. He was just going to make sure that George didn't throw a lucky punch.

George had pretty good defense through 5 rounds. A lot of hollyfield's blows 
were landing on his forearms. He was still getting his share through though. 

I still think both Ruddock and Tyson can and will beat holleyfield. He is very
quick but I doubt he can take the pounding that Tyson would give him inside.

The Scoring by the PPV woman was atrocious. I don't think you could have given
Foreman more than 2 rounds in the whole fight but she had him winning 1/2 of 
them until the 8th round....Blatant pandering to the crowd assuming they are 
idiots who've never seen a fight before. The announcing was pretty bad calling
it one of the greatest fights ever...

Good job by the referee keeping the fight moving at all times and not stopping 
it at the slighest injury.

George will be soaking his body for a few months then he'll be back fighting 
a few calculated bouts and raking in the $$$. He'd be smart not to fight another
serious contender for a little while though....

I think Lou Duva is scared of Tyson and is using Don King as an excuse not to 
fight him. He wants Holleyfield to hold on to the belt for longer than Douglas
did.


Metz

    re National Anthems:
    
    Great line by Beano Cook yesterday.  Mike Lupicka and Beano were
    debating the merits of the Rocket's decision.  Beano was flatly against
    it, and said, "The only think I like about Canada is the anthem!"
    
    I was rollward...
    
    JD

I'm still waiting for a group like the Beastie Boys or Run DMC to show up at a
Padres game and do a rap version of the national Anthem.....

By the Rockets red glare....PUH PUH PUH


Metz

    Mike JN
    
    RE:  MArvin Gaye - yeah, but did Doctor Manyzeroes remind you of the
    Marvini Gaye rendition before an Oakland Raiders game?  First, Ol
    Marvin dressed like a street wino - navy blue pea coat and a stocking
    cap - which he didn't remove (plus sunglasses), and then sang the worst
    national anthem ever. 
    
    It was like:
    
    Oh say-mumble-see-what's going on, oh wha'ts goin- bright light-mumble-
    hack-mumble-Rockets red-grapevine-the bombs ohhh you gonna be
    mine-mumble-gave proof through the night that
    -mumblemumblemumble-whjat's going on, yeah, mumble - homer the brave!
    
    JD

    Re: anthems
    
    You guys should check out the performances prior to the MTV Celebrity
    softball games.  Steve Vai did an awesome version last year and Eric
    Johnson blew everyone away this year.  They replay them on MTV from
    time to time.
    
    I also have the complete notation to Jimi's version from Woodstock. 
    That's a killer anthem!
    
    Mike

Heard the funniest thing by a comic the other night, about the new kids on
the block.

In an effort to enhance and toughen their image, they're cutting their
next album at Fulsome Prison.  Imagine, five cute guys like that in 
prison....  the albums' gonna be called "New Kids on the Cell Block"....

heh, heh, heh.....


I'd like to hear Alan Ginsberg do a be-bop poetic reading of the national
anthem...that'd be cool 8^)


'Saw

    A rap version of the USA National Anthem carries a certain appeal,
    actually.  The darn thing is so hard to sing, that if they didn't mess
    around too much with the timing, it might actually be an improvement.
    
    Skipping it altogether feels like a good idea, too.
    
    A&W

>SASE::SZABO "Move to this..."                        13 lines  22-APR-1991 14:20
>    I read an article in the paper last week by a syndicated columnist
>    expressing pretty much the same disgust as the Dickster's about the
>    latest trend in singing the anthem.  I agree.  It's become a contest
    
    Kwak, that article was by Royko, I suspect.  If so, here it is
    for yinz perusal:
    
From: [email protected] (Mike Royko)
Subject: IT'S SAME OLD SONG SUNG WITH A TWIST
    
MIKE ROYKO
	Let's test your knowledge of music. Tell me what song these lyrics
are from.
	1. Oh-dah-lah-hah la-hah-haha-eee-hee-hah-aaaand-uh aaaan-uh uvva-
uvva-uvva fruh-heee-heeeeee.
	2. Anna homma-duh homma-du-du-du hommaaaaaaaaa.
	3. Dee-uh-dee-hah-hah-hah buh-huh-eee-buh-huhe-eee-eee-eee-ray-have.
	You say you don't recognize it? Nonsense. Of course you do. It's
likely that you've heard and sung it dozens or hundreds of times,
depending on your age. Your parents sang it. And probably your
grandparents too.
	You still don't know it. All right, I'll throw out a few hints.
	It's a very old song. The words were written more than 150 years ago.
The melody is even older than that.
	You still don't know? Then you don't go to many Opening Days at
baseball games.
	Of course, when Francis Scott Key wrote that line, as well as the
others that precede and follow it, he kept the lyrics much simpler for
the human brain to comprehend: ``O'er the land of the free and the home
of the brave.'' And for many years, that's the way it was sung.
	But it's no longer done that way. In recent times, there has
developed a sort of informal competition among singers at ballparks,
hockey rinks, basketball stadiums and other patriotic gathering places
to see who can best turn ``The Star-Spangled Banner'' into something
most resembling the howls of a maniac locked in the asylum tower.
	I'm not sure when and where these free-form interpretations began,
although I vaguely remember some guy named Jose creating a stir a few
years ago by opening a World Series with a rendition that sounded like
the Star-Spangled Cha-Cha-Cha.
	Since then, I have heard the anthem has been performed as the Star-
Spangled Rock, the Star-Spangled Disco, the Star-Spangled Gospel, the
Star-Spangled Blues, the Star-Spangled Hootenanny, the Star-Spangled
Barbershop Quartet, and the Star-Spangled Scalded Cat.
	A few weeks ago, a woman who sang it before a Chicago Bulls game is
believed to have set a record by using a variety of prolonged howls,
shrieks, warbles, screams and other vocal acrobatics to drag it out to
more than five minutes.
	A man who was there told me: ``I couldn't understand one word. And, I
swear, if I were a Chicago policeman driving on a street in my squad car
and I heard those sounds coming from a building, I would radio for
backup, then draw my gun and go crashing into the place on the
assumption that a woman was being brutally attacked by a gang of fiends.
''
	I think it is time to draw the line. After all, it is our national
anthem. As such, it should be performed with some dignity, rather than
sounding like the singer has been bitten in the rear by a pit bull.
	It's doubtful that anyone would stand in center court at Wimbledon
and sing: ``Ga-hah Say-hey-he-hey-iv ow-ow-owah guh-ray-hey-hey-hey-hey
shush Qwa-hey-qua-hey-heee-eeeen.'' (That's ``God save our gracious
queen,'' ballpark style.) The English would say more than tut-tut, I'm
sure.
	Nor would they be impressed north of the border if someone gave them:
``Oh-hoooo, Cay-hey-cay-neee-dah! Owah, yes, owah ahooooma, ahoooma and
ney-yeh-ney-yey-tivuh-tivuh-baby-baby-light my-uh fiya lah-hah-hee-huh-
ay-and. (``O Canada! Our home and native land!'')''
	If Mr. Key could return and be transported to an athletic arena to
hear a modern intepretation, he'd recognize the tune, but he'd probably
say: ``Ah, English is no longer the native tongue?''
	And think of the children. Generation after generation of parents
bring their children to ballparks to introduce them to the national
pastime. Do we want these children later standing up in the assembly
hall and saying: ``No, teacher, it starts like this: `Oh-hoh-hey cah-
han-you-see-uh-see-uh by-the daw-haw-hawns err-uh-err-ee-uh-lee-lah-
lite?'''
	Even worse, these wild-eyed renditions of the Sta-hah-stah-hah-span-
uh-gulled bayuh-bayuh-ner-her-hers encourage the more excitable, beer-
soaked, rock-oriented members of the audience to leap up and clap their
hands above their heads and shout, ``Wow ... hey ... yeah ... go ...
baby ... go ...''
	That isn't what Francis Scott Key had in mind.
	On the other hand, some musicologists say that the melody can be
traced back to England where it had differant lyrics and was a drinking
song.
	So maybe it's not totally inappropriate for today's singers to sound
as if they just downed a quart of Southern Comfort.
	
	(C) 1991 BY THE CHICAGO TRIBUNE
	DISTRIBUTED BY TRIBUNE MEDIA SERVICES, INC.
    

    re National Anthem
    
    1) The group singing the anthem at the fight was En Vouge.
    2) That was 4-part harmony ... it worked in some areas, but not others,
    IMO. That interpretation could fly, but they need to refine it. As APul
    pointed out, it is a HARD song to sing.
    3) Whitney's version was OK, but nothing special. I liked her "America"
    better ....
    4) Sorry JD, as usual, you had to be contrary. BUt I didn't see Marvin
    at a Raider's game. The NBA All-Star game playe a silghtly larger
    audience.
    
    And Marvin more than rose to the occasion.
    
    5) I believe that there is no single perfect way to sing TSSB, and that
    it should come from the heart.
    
    6) I give Leslie Nielson's version of TSSB in "The Naked Gun" VERY high
    marks .... :-)
    
    Re The Fight,
    
    Best heavyweight fight I've seen in a while - I was glad to be wrong
    about it. And I think that Archie Moore deserves as much credit as
    anyone for Foreman's performance.
    
    Foreman's hands are MUCH faster than I thought they would be -esp. his
    jab - it had a lot of snap. 
    
    Holyfield has great heart - Foreman rocked him, and he didn't crack.
    I'm not so sure that Tyson wouldn't have.
    
    re Moore,
    
    The Old Mongoose won the title at 38, and held it for 10 years. And the
    light-heavy ranks had some damned good fighters too. He also managed
    to deck Marciano in their title fight before he ran out of gas (most
    accounts say that he wasn't in great shape for the fight - or the one
    against Walcott (?) - which probably cost him the title). Moreover,
    Moore was still a legit threat on the heavy and light-heavy level until
    he was 50 ! (Remember, his age was always a good rumor .... :-)
    
    Moore was to boxing in old age, what Ryan is today to pitching ....

>>       <<< Note 137.58 by RIPPLE::DEVLIN_JO "New Squids on the Block" >>>
>>                  -< Lets annex Canada and use their anthem! >-

Yuk!

That's too much, JD.

In spite of being Canajun, I've always hated our national anthem.  BOOORING!
The Star Spangled Banner is pretty neat, and my fave is the Russian one.  

rick

Question:

	Do the Germans still use "Deutschland �ber Alles" as their
	national anthem?

	The melody for that was lifted from a Beethoven string quartet.
	With all the changes and everything in Germany these days I've
	kind of lost track.....

Re the Russian Anthem:

	When I was studying Russian in school (bitch of a language I might
	add) we learned that anthem.  Tough to sing, but really rousing...

And finally, having been the typical American school kid, I can't help but
automatically thing "My Country 'Tis of Thee" when I hear "God Save the Queen"..


'Saw

  yo 'Saw

>>	Do the Germans still use "Deutschland �ber Alles" as their
>>	national anthem?

Dunno, maybe Rainer will tell us.  I do know that it says "You Are a German"
in their passports which has always freaked me.

Re the Russian Anthem:

	When I was studying Russian in school (bitch of a language I might
	add) we learned that anthem.  Tough to sing, but really rousing...

BTW, I just got a message that their looking for a Project Manager to develop
a tax system in Russia.  Interested??

>Dunno, maybe Rainer will tell us.  I do know that it says "You Are a German"

Wow, that's heavy duty....


>BTW, I just got a message that their looking for a Project Manager to develop
>a tax system in Russia.  Interested??


Nah, I think I'll pass on this one.  I did my time in France.  I'd like to
see the Soviet Union sometime, but more as a vacation than a work project.
It seems that our "work projects" here have so many hidden costs and gotchas,
that I try to avoid them....8^)

'Saw

    Doc, are you confusing Marvin Gaye's National Anthem with Smokey
    Robinson?  Robinson did a terrific medley of the National Anthem and
    "America the Beautiful" before (I think) the opening game of the '86
    World Series that still brings a tear to the eye.
    
    Mark.

    My all-time favorite rendition of the Star Spangled Banner isn't one
    done that was done at a sporting event; it was done by Take Six at
    their Boston concert a couple months ago. 
    
    
    py

    NBA Finals last year, Mariah Carey, before she made it big...

    One of the nicer aspects of the soccer World Cup was to hear all the
    anthems for the various different countries. Kind of hard to describe
    them, but some were pretty nice songs. The strange thing is that a lot
    of countries with a colonial past (most of the 3rd world) have very
    "Euuropean-classical sounding" anthems. Brazil, forexample didn't have
    any of the samba/salsa kind of sound that one would think synonymous
    with "Brazilian music." Camaroon didn't have any of the drumbeats and
    vocal harmonies that an African folk song would have. Yes, I think the 
    Germans still do use (at least the music to) "Deutschland Uber Alles" 
    
    Anthems are more a symbol of the government, the flag, and the
    "establishment" than a symbol of the people and culture of the
    country. 
    
    Tom

    re .70
    
    No Mark. The 1983 NBA All-Star game ... it's on an album of Marvin's
    unreleased material. Unbelieveable performance ...
    
    In general, The Forum has consistently had some of the best and most
    unique artists performing the anthem ... En Vogue, Marvin, Grover (?),
    the Temptations, Mariah Cary (yum yum) ...
    
    

    re .73
    
    It has always intrigued me, at both the Olympics and World Cup events,
    that the oriental countries have anthems in the western classical
    music tradition, rather than their own.  Not all of them have colonial
    pasts (Korea, mainland China, and Japan spring to mind as examples)
    and it intrigues me that they have "bought in" to European-based
    cultural norms so much in this one area.  Someday I have to do some
    research as to whether or not the entire concept of a "national
    anthem" is so "western" that those cultures simply didn't have a
    hook to hang the music on.
    
    A&W
    

    Mariah did it at the Palace...