Conference 7.286::sports_91

    Sugar Rim's (tm) "admission" seemed awfully self serving and insincere
    to me.  Seemed like he was saying "I was screwed up them, but look how
    great I am now that I've admitted it".
    
    What do other's think?
    
    =Bob=

I've always thought Sugar Rim(tm)  (Gee, name has a whole new meaning
now, don't it?) was about as fake-ass as you could get....

I'm surprised he didnt' work up a few crocodile tears and really
make it stink....


Maradonna got suspended for 2 years.  Sheesh, didn't he hear that you
have to dribble on the SIDE of the cup, and then the tester drops
it, and then you can't work up any more pee for another 40 days!
Someone's got to clue the guy in......


'Saw

    After some of the Boxing matches I have seen Rim in I thought the
    judges were on drugs....
    
    REK

    
    Sugar Gay(tm) is a phony. I applaud his ex-wife for spilling the
    beans about the man. The guy did absolutely nothing for the sport
    of boxing, IMNSHO. I hope he straightens himself out. 
    
    Is it me or are alot of these rich athlete's caught up in this 
    drug thang? Maybe they shouldn't pay them so much.
    
    
    Steve

�    After some of the Boxing matches I have seen Rim in I thought the
�    judges were on drugs....
�    
�    REK


Geraldo:   Could there be a connection here?  The Sugar Rim connection?
	   Saved for a future investigation on "Geraldo"......

    Seeing athletes who do drugs is appalling.  First, its dangerous and
    unhealthy. Second, I feel ripped off knowing it wasn't just this
    person's natural athletic ability, but drugs which enhanced the
    performance.  I suggest that any athlete who is caught/admits to
    drug abuse have to forfeit a % of the money they earned during
    the time they were drug-induced and put it into some type of
    treatment fund.  Lastly, it amazes me most that these people, who
    depend upon their bodies for their livelihood; would take such
    unneccesary risks.

    Let's start by getting serious about the use of drugs in sports.  The
    NBA and NFL have drug policies that are jokes ....... multiple chances
    are allowed.  Let's have one strike ...... if you're caught dirty
    you're out.  Period.  Forever.  No reinstatements.  Too bad.  Next.
    
    Greg

Hey Greg, why don't we just shoot em all???????

mike

    My views on this issue are well-known, so I'll only list them, rather
    than expound on them:
    
    1.  Athletes should be held to no higher standard of behavior than the
    general public is
    
    2.  Athletes should be given a chance to play again if they can show
    they've been rehabilitated
    
    3.  Athletes should not ingest anything that will improve their
    performance (like steroids), period.
    
    4.  I don't care if they snort cocaine, smoke grass or drink lots of
    alcohol as long as their performance isn't impaired by so doing
    
    5.  I'm against urine tests
    
    John

>    I agree with everything that John just wrote, including the point about
>    doing alcohol/drugs before a game.  Ever go out for a beer at lunch? 
>    It was a special occasion you say?  Co-worker was leaving so you took
>    him/her out to a luncheon, and you had a couple drinks?  Oh, the
>    horror, the horror!
    
Well, you all know I can put it away, no doubt.

I do have a problem with alcohol before rugby games.  If a guy is gonna
scrum with me, I don't like smelling alcohol on someone's breath, especially
in a scrum.  And woe to the person who hurls in a scrum....8^|


After the game as long as I ain't drivin, no problemo for me.....

'Saw

Sugar Rim = Kitty Dukakis

Nobody would have given a flying leap about their "problems" if they hadn't 
called press conferences and brought the attention on themselves....

I bet the Rimmer has set up new career going to public events and talking 
about his "problems".

A man's got to have a career now that everybody knows he can't box...


Metz

    'Saw -
    
    Any more info on the Maradona charge?  Like are the drugs performance
    enhancing or are they "merely" reality altering?
    
    For the record.
    
    Performance enhancing drug use needs to be stamped out at *all*
    levels of sport.  The true cruelty in my mind is that boys and girls
    in their teens are sent the message that use of these substances
    is necessary if they are to be fully successful as athletes.  The
    consequences to them in later life are immeasurable - such that
    the risk/reward ratio is highly skewed to the risk end.  But they
    don't have the maturity and information to understand the long term
    consequences of their actions.
    
    Reality altering drugs are a separate issue.  The civil penalties
    ought to be enough, with the "three strikes and you're out" rules
    a reasonable way to deal with rehab problems.  Civil penalties need
    to be enforced equally for athletes and "civilians".  Frequently
    they aren't, with the athlete getting a better deal (IMO).  The
    consequences of doing rehab time or jail time to a pro athelete's
    conditioning and career should be obvious.  So should the consequences
    of continued use of this category of drugs to his/her performance
    in the sport.
    
    
    I found myself wondering with Sugar Rim why this public confession
    *now*.  Seems suspect to me...  (Or is he about to "get religion"
    and tell us all about how his life has completely turned around
    now that he's "found Jesus".  Gag.  Awk.  Yech.  Leave me out of
    your personal life, please!!!)  Second thought -- was this very
    public "confession" part of the therapy or an agreement for something
    else?
    
    A&W

RE:        <<< Note 130.11 by 7221::JHENDRY "John Hendry, DTN 297-2623" >>>

    >My views on this issue are well-known, so I'll only list them, rather
    >than expound on them:
    
I can repect your views, but I'm not too familiar with them, so don't take 
anything I say as a personal flame.

    >1.  Athletes should be held to no higher standard of behavior than the
    >general public is
    
Absolutley, agree 100%.

    >2.  Athletes should be given a chance to play again if they can show
    >they've been rehabilitated
    
I agee here as well, but this could get pretty subjective.  How do you know 
when someone is rehabbed?  how many chances do they get?  I don't have the 
answers either.

    >3.  Athletes should not ingest anything that will improve their
    >performance (like steroids), period.
   
Does that include pasta?  How about a Hershy's bar before the game for that 
extra burst of energy??  Only a half ;^) on that because there are lots of 
ways atheletes can improve performance through diet that are not outside the 
law.  I assume you mean they should ingest anything illegal or against the 
roolz.  What about things like cortizone (sp?) and other "legal" pain 
killers and the like that may enhance a players ability by downplaying an 
injury?
 
    >4.  I don't care if they snort cocaine, smoke grass or drink lots of
    >alcohol as long as their performance isn't impaired by so doing

Agreed, at least in theory.

    >5.  I'm against urine tests
    
Me too.  But then how do you deal with your #3 and #4?


I don't think anyone is "in favor" of athletes doing drugs except maybe those 
few that are doing drugs or selling them drugs.  The question is how do you 
keep it from happening?  The answer is not easy and I don't know exactly what 
it is.

Scott

 Yet it's okay for trainers to pump race horses full of drugs, ain't it ???
 
 There ain't no easy answers, are there ???
 
 Bob Hunt

*	A comedian had a line regarding why athletes do drugs.  I wish I could
*    	remember exactly what it was, but it had to do with being able to
*    	easily afford it with the huge sums of money they make...
      
.12,

	I believe it was Robin Williams who said something like:
"God invented cocaine to remind rich people how rich they really are". 
'Mork' is also and ex-druggie.

Andy

    RE: Performance enhancement
    
    It is indeed a tough call as to what to ban and what not to ban (or to
    ban anything).  I think the combination that makes steroids recognized
    as definintly on the "banned" list is the fact that it not only
    enhances performance, but that it has a long term devastatingly
    negative effect on athletes.  This makes society, and thus sports feel
    that they must protect athletes from themselves.
    
    RE: Recreational use
    
    It's hard to ignore the fact that athlete's are role models, and that
    what they do does have an effect on the public.  With this in mind, I
    feel that they should have a higher standard (ie testing, etc).  If
    suspending a player for substance abuse deters even one kid from
    turning to drugs, it is worth it.
    
    =Bob=               

    Tarpley got bagged for DWI again?  Didn't he learn from the last time
    when it cost him a month or so of playing time?

 Just goes to show Mac that's it's an everyday struggle for substances
 abusers. Porblem is that if you got a problem with mind altering drugs
 you also got a problem with booze but none of them seem to realize that.

 mike

    I guess my "hardline" position on the use of illegal drups by
    athletes stems from a basic belief that athletes SHOULD be held to
    a higher moral level than your basic everyday individual.  These
    athletes are role models for youth ..... whether you like it or not,
    this brings with it a social responsibility.  Again, if we are truly
    serious about (1) controlling the use of illegal drugs in this
    country and (2) providing a quality environment for our youngsters
    to grow up in, we will take a much harder position.
    
    Greg

    This is my thing about athletes as role models - same old story.
    
    While I agree that they are role models, they shouldn't be.  They
    should be admired as people who've done an incredible amount of work to
    get where they are and should be admired for the work, but parents
    should teach their kids that athletes aren't necessarily good people -
    they're human beings, just like anyone else.  As such, they are as
    likely to fall to the same temptations as any of us are.
    
    Parents should teach their kids to emulate these athletes in their
    dedication to something, not necessarily sports, because so few will
    make it in sports and if you fail in sports, you may not have any
    alternatives.
    
    Parents who allow athletes to be used as role models instead of
    providing good parenting are falling down on their responsibilities.
    
    John

    I thought that SugarRim came out in the conference because his wife's
    accusations, and some sealed court records made their way to the LA
    Times .... I got the impression that Ray wanted to defuse any rumor
    mongering.

 Funny I got the impression that he couldn't stand being out of the spot-
 light....

 mike
 

>>                      <<< Note 130.12 by IMBACQ::SZABO >>>
>>
>>    A comedian had a line regarding why athletes do drugs.  I wish I could
>>    remember exactly what it was, but it had to do with being able to
>>    easily afford it with the huge sums of money they make...
    
    Robin Williams also said that , "Cocaine is God's way of telling you
    that you make too much f___ing money."
    
    shlep phis spleh
    
    JaKe
    

    I don't think that an athlete should be banned after one strike, but
    it's getting out of hand, the drug scene and I think the second strike
    should be the one that eliminates you from your sport. Hey if an 
    athlete chooses to risk being banned from his sport by doing drugs
    then he you can't feel sorry for them. So one time rehab yourself
    then after that, sorry you were warned.
    
                                                Dan

>    And, of course, the good old media does a nice job of forcing this role
>    model stuff on the kids too, which make our job as parents trying to
>    keep this role model BS away from our kids' minds...
    
Well, I think it's the media that (in one sense) causes a lot of this
stir.

Look at Babe Ruth.  Probably one of the worst role models you could
think of for a kid.  Over-ate, over-drank, did minscule training, but
he was one of the best ball players going.

If Ruth were around today, the media, with their "Current Affair" mentality
would crucify the man.

I remember my parents telling me one time that a priest was just a man, 
and he could make mistakes too.  Well, it's the same with athletes.

Personally, Hawk, I think *I'm* a GREAT role model for your kids.  Just
tell them to be like Uncle Chainsaw.  I mean, who else could teach
them how to have myriad fun around old train tracks....[many 8^)]


later,
'Saw

>    Well, 'Saw, you certainly did make an impression on my kids- they still
>    ask about you frequently which, I believe, makes them "loosehead" 
>    material...  :-)
    
The only regret I have is that I wasn't a tad more sober to thoroughly
enjoy the afternoon.  8^)   But a season of non-drinking rugby weekends
had to be made up for.  And besides, I wasn't really bad until later.

Your son, unfortunately is built like a back.  That's not terminal
however.  With a ton of fitness training, he could be a great flanker,
and if he's tall, he'd probably be a good lock.

Your daughter's just plain cute.....


Both are fun kids....  Next time, instead of finding railroad spikes, maybe
we'll do something more fun....like Bungee Jumping!

later,
'Saw

>    
>    Well, considering he was not quite 7 years old when you saw him, I
>    think his physical stature may change a bit in the next 10 or so years,
>    wouldn't you say?  :-)  Personally, I hope he resemble my grandpops
>    when he grows up.  While I've never met the man, I'm told he was in the
>    vicinity of 6'5" tall, lean but firm build.  And, he had a full head of
>    hair till the day he died!

You're in luck.  

He sounds like a lock.  Better start layin' in supplies of electrical
tape for his ears.  (One of these years, they're gonna start breeding
locks without ears....)


Is he over 7 now?

And how's Julie doin'?

'Saw

Hawk -

Just keep both kids busy and active.  Lots of running to keep them in 
condition.  Then they'll be ready for whatever position is needed when
they get old enuf....


On the role model stuff.  Sometime in the early '70's media coverage of
all sorts of potential role models, from athletes to politicians to
business people, changed dramatically.  Suddenly, we *had* to be shown
the feet of clay, rather than the golden head and bronze torso.  I think
that has been a major loss for both the child/fan and the "potential
role model".  The role models are no longer allowed to have some of
their growing up crises in relative privacy.  The child/fan is no longer
able to admire the ability, dedication, and hard work in a particular
field of endeavor and try to emulate *that*, which is what we really
want our young people to do.  Maybe someday the pendulum will swing
back again, and concentrate on the on-field activities more than those
off-field.

A&W

    When the disease of addiction strikes, it dosen't care who you are, or
    how much money you make, or who you play for, it's equal opportunity.
    And why do people like Sugar Ray go public, because that's the only way
    to get well and stay well is by being honest, because at some point
    there is no place to run or hide....you 'keep your mouth shut' you stay
    sick.  And you think it's an easy thing to do?  Or you think it for
    show?  It's not.
    
    ra

    
    Leonard could have pulled a Nixon, denied everything, and attempted to
    discredit any statements by his ex.  He opted for the Jimmy
    Swaggert/Ollie North approach (although without the tears) of baring
    his soul to the world and admitting his transgressions in the great
    spirit of "It takes a big man to do this.  Ain't I wonderful."
    
    Dickstah
    

Dickstah....re the p-name....

Boxers. 8^)

    re. 36
    
    I have to agree that his 'confession' almost sounded more like slick
    P.R. than it did honesty
    
    ron a

Heard a story about a power lifter on Saturday, from a rugger who used
to see him when he was working out in the gym.

The guy had all the signs of someone on the juice, especially the zits
on his arms and back.  Before he'd get ready to do deadlifts (these
amazingly HUGE amounts of weight too) he'd sit and sniff off a bottle
of rubbing alcohol for a while, thenr rip off some reps.

Anyone have any idea what this guy was trying to accomplish?


'saw

    He was trying to get stoned?