Conference 7.286::sports_91

	I think St.Peter's is more likely to be a #15 seed, with
	Towson State, the NAC champion, the Big Sky champion, and
	the Jackson State-Coastal Carolina winner being the likely
	#16 seeds.  That would pit St.Peter's against either Duke,
	UNC, Syracuse, Indiana, Arizona, or Kansas (in all likelihood).

	One of the occassional noters in here, Mike Simmons, is a
	St.Peter's alum, and has been pointing out to me the last day
	how St.Peter's made it and Yale didn't.

    Wow, you sure have mellowed out, JoJ.
    
    I can't believe I saw you put a "Congrats" in for someone who can't
    read this file.
    
    Wonder of wonders!
    
    :*)
    
    lEe

    While I have nothing against St. Phallus-Member per se, it's a damned
    shame that the NCAA in its drive to mollify television's insatiable
    appetite for stupid fodder for moving maudlin schmalzy "whoo hoo lookit
    some nobodies are being inspirational here!" crapola will end up robbing
    more deserving kids of a chance at the Big Show.
    
    St. Phallus-Member, Jersey City, welfare program, stipend, giveaway, 
    creeping fuzzy-haided liberal-style socialism in the athletic establishment
    if these bums wanted to play in the Div. I tourney so much why didn't they
    *earn* their way like most other teams.
    
    Yeah, they might beat somebody, just like a crackhaid welfare recipient
    might sneak up on a_honest citizen from behind after having arrived on
    the rich side a town on a free bus pass and smash poor John Doe in the
    back a the haid with a tire iron and rob him and leave him laying their
    bleeding, innocent.
    
    I applaud the NCAA's future move to limit automatic berths to undeserving
    recipients, to, so to speak, curtail the public spectacle of this awful
    type of welfare-mooching.
    
    True, the Princeton's and the Richmond's belong, cuz they PROVE their 
    mettle during the regular season.
    
    But, St. Phallus-Member?  Jersey City.  Urban blight.  Moochy mooch main!
     
    Big10 Tom

    Surprised you'd be so generous wif Richmond MorT, after they way they
    (whilst under the influence of crack no doubt) snuck up on the innocent
    Hoosiers a few years backed and bludgeoned them to death!
    
    Haw haw haw!!!!!!!!!!111111
    
    
    - ACC Chris

	The only really deserving teams are those who win regular
	season conference titles.  While I agree that therefore Princeton
	is a deserving NCAA tournament team, I can't agree that Richmond
	deserves to be there.


	Nor should Indiana, UNC, New Mexico State, Texas, LSU, St.John's,
	etc.

    back a few 
    		and where did Richmond hand Indiana it's exit papers?
    
    Jimbo

�    Yeah, they might beat somebody, just like a crackhaid welfare recipient
�    might sneak up on a_honest citizen from behind after having arrived on
�    the rich side a town on a free bus pass and smash poor John Doe in the
�    back a the haid with a tire iron and rob him and leave him laying their
�    bleeding, innocent.

	Bad analogy MorT.  Think of these scrappy small schools as the guy 
who works days then attends night school.  Sweating and struggling for that 
degree that DockerWearingBugleBoys get from daddy's money.  Of course the 
spoiled sissies would view the highly motivated energetic gogetter as a 
threat.  Kind of like how say, Indiana would view say, Towson State as a 
threat.           

				/Don

    A couple of great nicknames made the tourney yesterday:
    
    St. Francis (PA) Red Flash
    Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
    
    BTW, a chanticleer is a rooster.
    
    Also, Chris Berman had another good one Tuesday night during the
    highlights of Towson State's win and automatic entry into the tourney.
    One of the Towson State fans was holding up a sign saying "We want
    UNLV".  Berman replied, "They want UNLV...well, they might get 'em."
    
    Joe                                            

    Hey Mr. T_otally_absurd, St. Peters has one of the top ranked defenses
    in the country. While I agree that they aren't stricken with the slow,
    white, undersized MBA forwards that IU has to deal with, they should
    provide some interesting entertainment for us made for TV fans. 
    
    I was wondering, are you skeered that IU might have to play them in
    round one and get stomped?
    
    Best Regards, your pal,
    
    JoJ

    
    Re: 114.7
    
                      Richmond dumped Indiana at the Hartford Civic Center.
    
    
    			- tfb -

    Shank Peter don't rate a berth.  Who they played?  Stank Peter is a 
    squad who's mooching their way in.  The best 64 teams in the country
    (who aren't on probation) should be in the tourney.  Spank Peter is
    NOT one a those teams.  Jersey City.  Urban blight.  Moochy-moochy
    main.  
    
    If our TearyEyedYellowRibbonTNTnation has such a_appetite for heart
    tending Hortio Alger stories why not sit back and wait for somebody
    who EARNED their way in instead a a bunch a mooches like Skank Peter.
    
    They'll be many many teams who're much better than Slack Peter in the
    tourney.  Who they played defense against?  Fairly Ridiculous U.?
    
    Eh?
    
    Big10 Tom

>    Shank Peter don't rate a berth.  Who they played?  Stank Peter is a 
>    squad who's mooching their way in.  The best 64 teams in the country
>    (who aren't on probation) should be in the tourney.  Spank Peter is
>    NOT one a those teams.  Jersey City.  Urban blight.  Moochy-moochy
>    main.  
    
     (1) Why shuld "the best 64 teams in the country" go to the NCAA
         tournament ?  How has any team that was not good enough to be
         their conference champions "earned" a bid to play for a national
         championship ?  It seems to me that those loser teams who weren't
         good enough to win a conference title are the mooches.

     (2) How do you know that St.Peter's isn't one of the top 64 teams ?
         Have teams like Wisconsin or Colorado earned an NCAA bid ?  Exactly
         which teams do you expect will be left out of this year's tournament
         have "earned" an NCAA spot ?  Let's face it, every "big" school from
	 a "big" conference with, whose record is better than 16-12, will get in
	 to the tourney, but a lot of them will not have earned it.  Heck, the
         only REALLY good team IU has played this year is Ohio State, and the
	 Hoosiers lost to them twice.  What gives them on a claim to any
         tournament that decides a national championship ?

>    They'll be many many teams who're much better than Slack Peter in the
>    tourney.  

	 No doubt that this is true, but this is not the point.  How many
	 teams that DON'T make the tournament will have proven themselves to
	 be better than these smaller schools ?  Wisconsin ?  Colorado ?
	 Shoot, Purdue will probably moochy-moochy their way into the tournament
	 because of one big win last night, but they haven't earned it.
	 Of all the Big Ten teams, only Ohio State has EARNED a bid; all the
	 other loser schools are in the position of begging for an NCAA spot.

    Hey Shagnasty, just what team didn't make the tourny that you seem to
    think should have?
    
    JoJ
    
    PS - it'll be a Big East/ACC final four

	Teams that, so far, have earned their way into the NCAA tournament:

	Ohio State Buckeyes			25   2  .926
	Princeton Tigers			23   2  .920
	East Tennessee State Buccaneers		28   4  .875
	Arizona Wildcats			24   6  .800
	St.Peter's Peacocks			24   6  .800
	Wisconsin-Green Bay Phoenix		24   6  .800
	Northeast Louisiana Indians		25   7  .781
	Coastal Carolina Chanticleers		24   7  .774
	St.Francis (Pennsylvania) Red Flash	24   7  .774
	Creighton Bluejays			23   7  .767
	Pepperdine Waves			22   8  .733
	South Alabama Jaguars			22   8  .733
	Louisiana Tech Bulldogs			21   9  .700
	Richmond Spiders			21   9  .700
	Towson State Tigers			19  10  .655

    About this big school vs. little school thing.  Just to prove how
    badly things are out of line, take a look at the Univerisity of
    Wisconsin.  Not the Badgers, the Phonix.
    
    Now, I'm fairly sure that UW has several satilite campus thoughout
    Wisconsin, one which happens to be in Green Bay, which just happens to
    support a basketball team.  Since I'm not a Wiscosin native, I'm not
    interested in or realy familiar with either the Badgers or the Phonix,
    but I've got a gut feeling as to which team might be the better team.
    
    The Phonix won the Mid-American conference (I think) and are in the
    tournement.  The Badgers on the other hand haven't done that well in
    the Big Ten and probubly won't make it.
    
    So here you've got a team that may on even be the best team ON
    CAMPUS!!! and yet are in the NCAA tournement.
    
    How do you explain that one away?
    
    SKK

	Teams that, so far, have earned their way into the NCAA tournament:

	Ohio State Buckeyes			25   2  .926
	Princeton Tigers			23   2  .920
	East Tennessee State Buccaneers		28   4  .875
	Arizona Wildcats			25   6  .806
	St.Peter's Peacocks			24   6  .800
	Wisconsin-Green Bay Phoenix		24   6  .800
	Northeast Louisiana Indians		25   7  .781
	Coastal Carolina Chanticleers		24   7  .774
	St.Francis (Pennsylvania) Red Flash	24   7  .774
	Creighton Bluejays			23   7  .767
	Murray State Racers			24   8  .750
	Pepperdine Waves			22   8  .733
	South Alabama Jaguars			22   8  .733
	Louisiana Tech Bulldogs			21   9  .700
	Richmond Spiders			21   9  .700
	Penn State Nittany Lions		20  10  .667
	Towson State Tigers			19  10  .655
	Georgia State Panthers			16  14  .567

I saw the St. Francis - Fordham game.

When it started, I sorta rolled my eyes and checked the listings to see
if there was anything else on. Nope.... so I started watching it.
Surprised me. Damned good game.

At the end, the St Francis fans were waving the `Bring on UNLV' signs
also. Cracked me up... but I thought it was neat. Reminded me of the
`Last Defiant Gesture' cartoon of the little mouse giving the finger to
the huge hawk that is swooping down on him.

Mike JN

    Add Seton Hall to that list of teams that earned their way into the
    tourny....
    
    BTW - does Sorry_Excuse still deserve to be in it?
    
    hawwwwwww

East:		#1 North Carolina 25-5 vs #16 Northeastern 22-9
		#2 Syracuse 26-5 vs #15 Richmond 21-9
		#3 Oklahoma State 22-7 vs #14 New Mexico 20-9
		#4 UCLA vs #13 Penn State 20-10
		#5 Mississippi State 20-8 vs #12 Eastern Michigan 24-6
		#6 North Carolina State 19-10 vs #11 Southern Mississippi 21-7
		#7 Purdue 17-11 vs #10 Temple 21-9
		#8 Princeton 24-2 vs #9 Villanova 16-14

Southeast:	#1 Arkansas 31-3 vs #16 Georgia State 16-14
		#2 Indiana 27-4 vs #15 Coastal Carolina 24-7
		#3 Kansas 22-7 vs #14 New Orleans 23-7
		#4 Alabama 21-9 vs #13 Murray State 24-8
		#5 Wake Forest 18-10 vs #12 Louisiana Tech 21-9
		#6 Pittsburgh 20-11 vs #11 Georgia 17-12
		#7 Florida State 20-10 vs #10 Southern California
		#8 Arizona State vs #9 Rutgers

Midwest:	#1 Ohio State 25-3 vs #16 Towson State
		#2 Duke 27-8 vs #15 Northeast Louisiana 25-7
		#3 Nebraska 26-7 vs #14 Xavier (Ohio) 21-9
		#4 St.John's 20-8 vs #13 Northern Illinois 25-5
		#5 Texas vs #12 St.Peter's 24-6
		#6 Louisiana State 20-9 vs #11 Connecticut 18-10
		#7 Iowa 20-10 vs #10 East Tennessee State 28-4
		#8 Georgia Tech 16-12 vs #9 DePaul

West:		#1 Nevada-Las Vegas 30-0 vs #16 Montana
		#2 Arizona vs #15 St.Francis (Pennsylvania) 24-7
		#3 Seton Hall 22-8 vs #14 Pepperdine 22-8
		#4 Utah 28-3 vs #13 South Alabama 22-8
		#5 Michigan State 18-10 vs #12 Wisconsin-Green Bay 24-6
		#6 New Mexico State 23-5 vs #11 Creighton
		#7 Virginia 21-11 vs #10 Brigham Young 20-12
		#8 Georgetown 18-12 vs #9 Vanderbilt 17-12

>>                 -< Can anyone fill in the missing records ? >-

East:		#1 North Carolina 25-5 vs #16 Northeastern 22-9
		#2 Syracuse 26-5 vs #15 Richmond 21-9
		#3 Oklahoma State 22-7 vs #14 New Mexico 20-9
		#4 UCLA 23-8 vs #13 Penn State 20-10
		#5 Mississippi State 20-8 vs #12 Eastern Michigan 24-6
		#6 North Carolina State 19-10 vs #11 Southern Mississippi 21-7
		#7 Purdue 17-11 vs #10 Temple 21-9
		#8 Princeton 24-2 vs #9 Villanova 16-14

Southeast:	#1 Arkansas 31-3 vs #16 Georgia State 16-14
		#2 Indiana 27-4 vs #15 Coastal Carolina 24-7
		#3 Kansas 22-7 vs #14 New Orleans 23-7
		#4 Alabama 21-9 vs #13 Murray State 24-8
		#5 Wake Forest 18-10 vs #12 Louisiana Tech 21-9
		#6 Pittsburgh 20-11 vs #11 Georgia 17-12
		#7 Florida State 20-10 vs #10 Southern California 19-9
		#8 Arizona State 19-9 vs #9 Rutgers 19-9

Midwest:	#1 Ohio State 25-3 vs #16 Towson State 19-10
		#2 Duke 27-8 vs #15 Northeast Louisiana 25-7
		#3 Nebraska 26-7 vs #14 Xavier (Ohio) 21-9
		#4 St.John's 20-8 vs #13 Northern Illinois 25-5
		#5 Texas 22-8 vs #12 St.Peter's 24-6
		#6 Louisiana State 20-9 vs #11 Connecticut 18-10
		#7 Iowa 20-10 vs #10 East Tennessee State 28-4
		#8 Georgia Tech 16-12 vs #9 DePaul 20-8

West:		#1 Nevada-Las Vegas 30-0 vs #16 Montana 22-7
		#2 Arizona 26-6 vs #15 St.Francis (Pennsylvania) 24-7
		#3 Seton Hall 22-8 vs #14 Pepperdine 22-8
		#4 Utah 28-3 vs #13 South Alabama 22-8
		#5 Michigan State 18-10 vs #12 Wisconsin-Green Bay 24-6
		#6 New Mexico State 23-5 vs #11 Creighton 23-7
		#7 Virginia 21-11 vs #10 Brigham Young 20-12
		#8 Georgetown 18-12 vs #9 Vanderbilt 17-12

    Glad to see the UNM Lobos finally got into the big dance after so many
    years of being snuffed.  Ironically, they may not have deserved it this
    year, but there were past years where they deserved and didn't get in. 
    UNM's case was probably helped immensely by Tennessee's good showing,
    (& losing) in the SEC tournament.  First of all, UT's success in the SEC
    tourney made UNM look good because UNM beat UT early in the season,
    plus UT's losing the championship game means they didn't take up
    another at-large bid. 
    
    The Lobos have a tough foe in Oklahoma State, but they match up well. 
    OSU's main man is center Byron Houston, but UNM has Luc Longley.  This
    should be a great matchup, and if Longley wins the battle of the big
    men, the Lobos might have a chance.
    
    2 teams who got screwed in their seedings IMO were New Mexico St. and
    East Tenn. State.  NMSU got bumped down to a 6 seed in the West,
    undoubtedly due to their upset loss to Fresno State in the 1st round of
    the Big West Tournament.  But ETSU's seed is even more of a shocker. 
    Here is a team that finished #12 in the final USA Today poll, yet only
    got a 10 seed in the Midwest.  
    
    And finally, I think CBS' 1st-round coverage sucks!  They have 5 hours of
    games to start out, but then there's a 3-hour break.  I could see 1
    hour for local news,  but I just think 3 hours is too much.  All the
    more reason to leave the 1st round to ESPN or at least let ESPN have it
    while CBS isn't televising it.  That's not even worth taking Thursday
    or Friday off, or even going home early because the games don't resume
    until 6pm out here.  
    
    Does anyone know if they've set starting times for the first-round
    games yet?  I couldn't find the times anywhere.
    
    Joe
    I don't see why everyone says the West is so loaded.  Arizona is there,
    but everyone knew that would happen, and the Cats aren't that scary
    outside the McHale Center.  Seton Hall is a good team who did win the
    BET, but I don't think they're quite deserving of a 3 seed.  Utah is a
    very hardworking bunch that plays great as a team, but they're not a
    legitimate top-20 team, and I'll say they won't get past the 2nd round. 
    UNLV's 2nd round game may be tougher than their 3rd round game, but I
    still don't think G'town will give them much of a scare.  Their
    backcourt isn't that great and they're a poor shooting team.  And UNLV
    already whipped Michigan State by 20, and that was on MSU's home floor.
    

    I've got mid-court seats for teh SE Regional in Charlotte...mid-court
    next to the top of the coliseum that is.  Charlotte officials aren't
    very pleased with who's coming to their show.  They were hoping for a
    Duke or UNC.  Wake Forest is what they got.
    
    I'm happy because Pittsburgh was placed in the SE.  I don't think
    they'll make it to Charlotte.  I think they can beat Kansas, but they
    must first beat Georgia...they won't.  I'll be rooting for Indiana
    (unless their up against Pitt) at the games.
    
    Why does Georgia's coach sound so familiar?  Who is Hugh Durham?  Why
    am I forgetting where he came from?
    
    But maybe the best part about all the seedings is NO BILLY TUBBS!!!
    
    Any darkhorse picks out there?  I'll take Northern Illinois.
    
    	--dan'l

    Hugh Durham coached at Florida State for a long time before going to
    Georgia.
    
    John

    Well, I caint wait til the West Regional nexted week.   Hopefully I'll
    get to see Seton Hall (whom I'll have to route for in the West).  I'll
    probably get to see UNLV, unless Georgetown survives round 1 and
    somehow the big boys lead an upset.  I hope Arizona loses, never liked
    them.
    
    Should be a damn good show.  Hope UNLV brings their showgals, er
    Cheerleaders...
    
    JD

    re .23:
                                             
    >	Any darkhorse picks out there? 
    
    Didn't South Alabama make it to the final 16 last year or the year
    before?                                  
    
    
    Just a wildass hunch, but I've got a feeling that Towson State is going
    to give Ohio State all they can handle...
    
    
    py

>    somehow the big boys lead an upset.  I hope Arizona loses, never liked
>    them.
    
    well I hope they stomp everyone cuz you don't like them ;-)

MEN'S NCAA TOURNAMENT INDIVIDUAL RECORDS

POINTS
Game: 61; Austin Carr, Notre Dame vs. Ohio, '70.
Series: 184; Glen Rice, (6 games), Mich., '89.
FIELD GOALS
Game: 25; Carr (44 attempted), Notre Dame, '70.
Series: 75; Rice, (6 games), Michigan, '89.
3-POINT FIELD GOALS
Game: 11; Jeff Fryer, Loyola Marymount, '90.
Series: 27; Rice, (6 games), Michigan, '89.
FREE THROWS
Game: 23; Bob Carney (26 att.), Bradley, '54; Travis Mays (27 att.),
Texas '90. 
Series: 55; Carney (5 games), Bradley, '54.
REBOUNDS
Game: 31; Nate Thurmond, B. Green, '63.
Series: 97; Elvin Hayes (5 games), Houston, '68.
STEALS
Game: 7 (6 players).
Series: 23; Mookie Blaylock (6 games); Oklahoma, '88.



MEN'S NCAA TOURNAMENT TEAM RECORDS

POINTS
Game: 149; Loyola Marymount vs. Michigan (115), '90.
Both teams: 264; Loyola Marymount (149) vs. Michigan (115), '90.
Series: 571; Nevada-Las Vegas, '90 (102 vs. Ark.-Little Rock; 76 vs.
Ohio State; 69 vs. Ball State; 131 vs. Loyola Marymount; 90 vs. Georgia Tech;
103 vs. Duke).
FIELD GOALS
Game: 52; Iowa vs. Notre Dame, '70.
Both teams: 97; Iowa (52) vs. Notre Dame (45), '70.
Series: 218; Nevada-Las Vegas, '77 (49 vs. San Francisco; 37 vs. Utah;
44 vs. Idaho State; 41 vs. North Carolina; 47 vs. N.C.-Charlotte).
3-POINT GOALS
Game: 21; Loyola Marymount vs. Alabama, '90.
Series: 56; Loyola Marymount (4 games), '90.
FREE THROWS
Game: 41; Utah vs. Santa Clara, '60; Navy vs. Syracuse, '88.
Series: 146; Bradley, '54 (23 vs. Oklahoma City; 38 vs. Colorado; 29
vs. Oklahoma State; 24 vs. Southern Cal; 32 vs. La Salle).
FIELD-GOAL PCT.
Game: 79.0 (49-62), North Carolina vs. Loyola Marymount, '88.
FREE-THROW PCT.
Game (min. 22 FTM): 100 (22-22), Fordham vs. S. Carolina, '71.
REBOUNDS
Game: 86; Notre Dame vs. Tennessee Tech, '58.
Series: 306; Houston, '68 (54 vs. Ohio State; 54 vs. UCLA; 76 vs. Texas
Christian; 59 vs. Louisville; 63 vs. Loyola (Ill.).
ASSISTS
Game: 36; North Carolina vs. Loyola Marymount, '88.
Series: 140; Nevada-Las Vegas (6 games).
BLOCKED SHOTS
Game: 13; Louisville vs. Illinois, '89.
STEALS 
Game: 19; Providence vs. Austin Peay, '87; Connecticut vs. Boston
University, '90.
Series: 72; Oklahoma (6 games).
FOULS
Game: 39; Kansas vs. Notre Dame, '75.


MEN'S CHAMPIONSHIPS RESULTS

YR CHAMPION            SCORE    RUNNER-UP        OUTSTANDING PLAYER 
1990 Nevada-Las Vegas   103-73    Duke             Anderson Hunt, UNLV
1989 Michigan            80-79(1) Seton Hall       Glen Rice, Michigan
1988 Kansas              83-79    Oklahoma         Danny Manning, Kansas
1987 Indiana             74-73    Syracuse         Keith Smart, Indiana
1986 Louisville          72-69    Duke             Pervis Ellison, Louisville
1985 Villanova           66-64    Georgetown       Ed Pinckney, Villanova
1984 Georgetown          84-75    Houston          Patrick Ewing, Georgetown
1983 North Carolina St.  54-52    Houston          Akeem Olajuwon, Houston
1982 North Carolina      63-62    Georgetown       James Worthy, N. Carolina
1981 Indiana             63-50    N. Carolina      Isiah Thomas, Indiana
1980 Louisville          59-54    UCLA             Darrell Griffith, Louisville
1979 Michigan St.        75-64    Indiana St.      Earvin Johnson, Michigan St.
1978 Kentucky            94-88    Duke             Jack Givens, Kentucky
1977 Marquette           67-59    N.    Carolina   Butch Lee, Marquette
1976 Indiana             86-68    Michigan         Kent Benson, Indiana
1975 UCLA                92-85    Kentucky         Richard Washington, UCLA
1974 North Carolina St.  76-64    Marquette        David Thompson, N.C. St.
1973 UCLA                87-66    Memphis St.      Bill Walton, UCLA
1972 UCLA                81-76    Florida St.      Bill Walton, UCLA
1971 UCLA                68-62    Villanova        Howard Porter, Villanova
1970 UCLA                80-69    Jacksonville     Sidney Wicks, UCLA
1969 UCLA                92-72    Purdue           Lew Alcindor, UCLA
1968 UCLA                78-55    N.    Carolina   Lew Alcindor, UCLA
1967 UCLA                79-64    Dayton           Lew Alcindor, UCLA
1966 Texas Western       72-65    Kentucky         Jerry Chambers, Utah
1965 UCLA                91-80    Michigan         Bill Bradley, Princeton
1964 UCLA                98-83    Duke             Walt Hazzard, UCLA
1963 Loyola (Ill.)       60-58(1) Cincinnati       Art Heyman, Duke
1962 Cincinnati          71-59    Ohio St.         Paul Hogue, Cincinnati
1961 Cincinnati          70-65(1) Ohio St.         Jerry Lucas, Ohio St.
1960 Ohio St.            75-55    California       Jerry Lucas, Ohio St.
1959 California          71-70    West Virginia    Jerry West, West Virginia
1958 Kentucky            84-72    Seattle          Elgin Baylor, Seattle
1957 North Carolina      54-53(2) Kansas           Wilt Chamberlain, Kansas
1956 San Francisco       83-71    Iowa             Hal Lear, Temple
1955 San Francisco       77-63    La Salle         Bill Russell, San Francisco
1954 La Salle            92-76    Bradley          Tom Gola, LaSalle
1953 Indiana             69-68    Kansas           B.H. Born, Kansas
1952 Kansas              80-63    St. John's       Clyde Lovellette, Kansas
1951 Kentucky            68-58    Kansas St.       None selected
1950 CC New York         71-68    Bradley          Irwin Dambrot, CCNY
1949 Kentucky            46-36    Oklahoma St.     Alex Groza, Kentucky
1948 Kentucky            58-42    Baylor           Alex Groza, Kentucky
1947 Holy Cross          58-47    Oklahoma         George Kaftan, Holy Cross
1946 Oklahoma St.        43-40    North Carolina   Bob Kurland, Oklahoma St.
1945 Oklahoma St.        49-45    New York         Bob Kurland, Oklahoma St.
1944 Utah                42-40(1) Dartmouth        Arnold Ferrin, Utah
1943 Wyoming             46-34    Georgetown       Ken Sailors, Wyoming
1942 Stanford            53-38    Dartmouth        Howard Dallman, Stanford
1941 Wisconsin           39-34    Wash.      St.   John Kotz, Wisconsin
1940 Indiana             60-42    Kansas           Marvin Huffman, Indiana
1939 Oregon              46-33    Ohio St.         None selected

NOTE: 1-Overtime; 2-three overtimes

>YR CHAMPION            SCORE    RUNNER-UP        OUTSTANDING PLAYER 
>1946 Oklahoma St.        43-40    North Carolina   Bob Kurland, Oklahoma St.
>1945 Oklahoma St.        49-45    New York         Bob Kurland, Oklahoma St.
    
    

    re: .23.  Please don't say that Northern Illinois is a darkhorse.  I'm
    hoping my beloved Redmen can finish the season on the upswing with at
    least one win in the Tourney.
    
    Any other info on No. Illinois?
    
    Redmen Phil
    

First round dark horses

DePaul
Xavier
Connecticut
St Francis


Mike JN

    Other first round darkhorses:
    
    	Murray State
    	Louisiana Tech
    	Eastern Michigan
    	South Alabama
    	Wisconsin-Green Bay
    
    IMO, this year's entire crop of college teams is weak.  After the top
    7 or 8 teams, the next 50-75 schools are all about the same.
    
    NAZZ

    NIU is coached by Jim Molinari, a long-time assistant under Ray and
    Joey Meyer.  Their best player is Donnell Thomas (16.8 ppg, 8.1
    boards).  They left the Mid American Conference a few years back to
    become a major independent, but later joined the Mid Continent
    Conference in basketball.  
    
    They won their conference regular season, but lost the tourny to
    Wisconsin-Green Bay.  The NCAA thought their record of 25-5, including
    a win over Nebraska, was worth an at-large bid.  Are very strong
    defensively (second in the nation behind Princeton).
    
    Very loyal and knowledgeable fans who will make the trip to Dayton. 
    Kenny Battle started at NIU before transferring to Illinois.
    
    	--dan'l

    The following reply is a postscript file of the NCAA 64 men's field on
    one page 8X11.  I got it off usenet newsgroup.  I printed it out and it
    worked and it looks nice.
    
    Charles

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showpage

    
    	So when do the games begin? When does our contest get started up?
    When will Dean choke?
    
    B.A. 

    Is there a seeding ladder on-line that's not in postscript?
    

    Can anyone provide me the final standings of the PAC10 ?
    Thanks
    
    Patrick

    Does anybody know what time the games are this Thursday & Saturday
    in Maryland???
    
    - Ken -

I'm still collecting entries for the NCAA Tournament Player Scoring Contest.
I've only got three entries so far....   Prize will be determined based on
my budget and on who wins.  {For example, if ACC Chris were to enter and
win, a copy of "A Season on the Brink" would be appropriate;  For Mike 
Childs, a copy of "Rocket" Roger's autobiography;  you get the idea;}


8 players: 2 C, 3 F, 3 G  - only one from any team... also send a guess for
total points scored by the eight players during the tournament as tiebreaker.

Use this form:

--------------------------------

Name:                       Email Address:                 Total Points:


	Player Name		Team
C
C
F
F
F
G
G
G

--------------------------------

Send to DUGROS::ROSS or 34193::ROSS

 but Doug, I wanted Wade's book "My life as a Sexophilimac"...

 ;^)

mike

All times are Mountain
                    
                       EAST
College Park(Thurs.):
#3 Oklahoma State 22-7 vs #14 New Mexico 20-9, 10:20 am
#6 North Carolina State 19-10 vs #11 Southern Mississippi 21-7, 30 minutes 
   after OSU-UNM game ends.
#7 Purdue 17-11 vs #10 Temple 21-9, 5:35 pm
#2 Syracuse 26-5 vs #15 Richmond 21-9, 30 min. after Pur.-Tem. ends
	
Syracuse, NY (Fri.)	
#5 Mississippi State 20-8 vs #12 Eastern Michigan 24-6, 10:25 am
#4 UCLA 23-8 vs #13 Penn State 20-10, 30 min. after MSU-EMU ends
#1 North Carolina 25-5 vs #16 Northeastern 22-9, 5:32 pm
#8 Princeton 24-2 vs #9 Villanova 16-14, 30 min. after UNC-NU ends.

                   SOUTHEAST
Louisville, KY (Thurs.):
#6 Pittsburgh 20-11 vs #11 Georgia 17-12, 10:15 am
#3 Kansas 22-7 vs #14 New Orleans 23-7, 30 min. after Pitt-Geo. ends
#7 Florida State 20-10 vs #10 Southern California 19-9, 5:40 pm
#2 Indiana 27-4 vs #15 Coastal Carolina 24-7, 30 min. after FSU-CC ends

Atlanta, GA (Fri.):
#1 Arkansas 31-3 vs #16 Georgia State 16-14, 10:15 am
#8 Arizona State 19-9 vs #9 Rutgers 19-9, 30 min. after Ark.-GSU ends
#4 Alabama 21-9 vs #13 Murray State 24-8, 5:36 pm
#5 Wake Forest 18-10 vs #12 Louisiana Tech 21-9, 30 min. after WF-LT ends

                  MIDWEST
Minneapolis (Thurs.):	
#2 Duke 27-8 vs #15 Northeast Louisiana 25-7, 10:35 am
#7 Iowa 20-10 vs #10 East Tennessee State 28-4, 30 min. after Duke-ETSU ends
#6 Louisiana State 20-9 vs #11 Connecticut 18-10, 6:10 pm
#3 Nebraska 26-7 vs #14 Xavier (Ohio) 21-9, 30 min. after LSU-UConn ends

Datyon, OH (Fri.):
#4 St.John's 20-8 vs #13 Northern Illinois 25-5, 10:35 am
#5 Texas 22-8 vs #12 St.Peter's 24-6, 30 min. after SJU-NIU ends
#1 Ohio State 25-3 vs #16 Towson State 19-10, 5:35 pm
#8 Georgia Tech 16-12 vs #9 DePaul 20-8, 30 min. after OSU-TSU ends

                   WEST
Salt Lake City (Thurs.):
#3 Seton Hall 22-8 vs #14 Pepperdine 22-8, 12:30 pm
#6 New Mexico State 23-5 vs #11 Creighton 23-7, 30 min. after SHU-Pep. ends
#7 Virginia 21-11 vs #10 Brigham Young 20-12, 6:05 pm
#2 Arizona 26-6 vs #15 St.Francis (Pennsylvania) 24-7, 30min after UVA-BYU ends

Tucson, AZ (Fri.):
#5 Michigan State 18-10 vs #12 Wisconsin-Green Bay 24-6, 12:30 pm
#4 Utah 28-3 vs #13 South Alabama 22-8, 30 min. after MSU-WGB ends
#8 Georgetown 18-12 vs #9 Vanderbilt 17-12, 6:10 pm
#1 Nevada-Las Vegas 30-0 vs #16 Montana 22-7, 30 min. after Geo-Vand ends

    Does anyone know what games will be shown live on CBS?
    
    Redmen Phil

    Hawk, here are some guys I'm sure you'll like:
    
    Dikembe Mutombo - Georgetown
    Tony Dunkin - Coastal Carolina Chanticleers (Dunkin a hoop name?-WOW!)
    Popeye Jones - Murray State
    Keith Luckydo - Georgia State
    Literial Green - Georgia
    Ghandi Jordan - Pitt
    Luc Longley - New Mexico
    Melvin Cheatum - ALabama
    Calbert Cheaney - Indiana
    Adonis Jordan - Kansas
    Michael Polite - Florida State
    Keith "Mister" Jennings - ETSU
    Locksley Collie - Texas
    Shaquille O'Neal - LSU
    Acie Earl - Iowa
    Beau Reid - Nebraska
    Carlos Funchess - NE Louisiana
    Latrell Wrightsell - Creighton
    Mike Iuzzolino - St Francis
    Tony Bennett - Wisconsin-Green Bay
    Clarence Weatherspoon - Southern Mississippi
    Tom Gugliotta - NC State
    Kit Mueller - Princeton
    
    Two maxims:
    
    Take nobody from North Carolina
    Take anybody from UNLV
    
    Hope this helps.
    
    NAZZ

    Phil,
    	According to the Glob and my interpretation, it's going to be a
    disaster!  CBS is going to try to fit 32 games into 8 tv slots over
    Thursday and Friday. (BTW they have no experience in this area)
    
    Glob said 3 Big East team games will be carried Thursday with the 4th
    being Duke/NL.
    
    Friday night is Northeastern/Tarhells @7:32 (in the Boston area only?)
    because of where the Huskies are located (6th largest tv market).
    
    Princeton/'nova later and finally, UNLV/Montana around midnight.
    
    If the NE/NC game is a blowout, it appears that local programming
    may switch to anything they want.  I don't believe the entire country
    will be seeing the same parts of various games, probably due to the
    local stations desire to "play the local favorite & get viewers".
    
    Already I'm wanting ESPN back!
    
    HTH,
    Kev
    

 Like Kev said it basically going to be regional coverage with the ability
 to switch around. They're hoping with the 15 minute delays that you'll
 get to see 2 whole games basically concerning teams from your geographical
 area and you'll get to see about 8 buzzer beating finishes...

 Nazz isn't Litteral Green sidelined? I thought that I heard that the other
 night...

 Kev, all set I'll either interoffice to you or you tell me if you're planning
 to be in my neighborhood shortly.......

    
    For those of us unfortunates who won't be able to play couch potato
    during working hours or who can't program the vcr (due to other family
    members wanting UHF (or is it VHF??) channels, I thought I'd offer
    a possible alternative.
    
    The radio I have in the office is madde by GE and it has AM/FM and 
    (sound only) TV!  During the Gulf war, I'd tune in one of the TV
    stations and get the audio portion of the updates. 
    
    I plan to tune into a local CBS station and listen to whatever bimbo's
    CBS doing the games.  My expectations are low - TV announcers are
    color only and are forbidden to use accounts, descriptions and
    goings-on of sporting events (probably by gov't regulation) but
    it's hopefully better than nothing.
    
    The radio sells for ~$35.00.  I have never seen another brand receive
    the TV band, only GE.
    <disclamer>
    I do not own, nor am I aware of any member of my family being a GE
    stockholder.
    
    Just a thought, thought I'd post it early enough so folks could go
    shopping if you are so incluned to expand your cubicles comforts ;*)
    
    Kev
     

    re: Litterial Green
    
    He's in pretty bad shape but the doctors have cleared him to play. 
    Apparently he'll be in alot of pain but can't do any more damage.
    
    I like Pitt.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Reg 114.48  Yes Litteral Green of U of GA is sidelined for the NCAA.
    
    Mike

Nazz, don't forget:

House Guest

Mike JN

    Since I haven't seen any tourney contest,I thought I would post my
    predictions for anyone who cared. 
    
    West
    UNLV
    Georgetown   UNLV        
    Mich St                UNLV
    South Ala    Mich St 
    NMST                            UNLV
    Seton Hall   NMST       NMST
    UVA
    Arizona      Arizona                          UNLV            
    
    Midwest
    Ohio State
    Depaul         Depaul                                     UNLV
    Texas                     Depaul         
    UNI            Texas                   
    LSU                                  Iowa
    Xaivier        Xaivier
    Iowa                      Iowa
    Duke           Iowa          
    
    
    UNC
    Villanova      UNC
    EMU                     UNC
    UCLA           UCLA       
    NCST                                 NCST
    OSU            Purdue    
    Purdue                  NCST
    Syracuse       NCST
    
    Arkansas        Arkansas
    Rutgers                      Arkansas                    Arkansas
    Wake            Alabama
    Alabama
    Georgia         Georgia                    Arkansas
    Kansas                       Indiana
    USC             Indiana
    Indiana
    
    
    UNLV 97-88 over Arkansas in the finals

Dave, 

I'm sure the winner could get that unused Jock from WelcherDinz as a 
prize.....

'Saw

    Thursday's Nebraska vs Xavier game will be coached by two former Digger
    Phelps assistants, Danny Nee and Pete Gillen, respectively.  If
    Digger's head rolls, does the winner of this game go to South Bend next
    year?  Gillen maybe.  Nee's got too much cooking in huskerland.
    
    	--dan'l

    Notre Dame said the other day that Digger's job is safe.
    
    Yeah, and the check is in the mail, pal ...
    
    Bob Hunt

    
    
    Ya, safe for now, but what if my project get's cancelled? And 
    how the hell does Notre Dame know that my job is 'safe'?
    Jeez does everyone know my affairs? 
    
    
    
    Digger

    If you go by seeds (excluding 8-9 games), I'll say 3 first-round
    upsets:
    
    Penn St. over UCLA
    BYU over UVA
    ETSU over Iowa
    Xavier over Nebraska.
    
    Remember, you read 'em here first.  Now, bring on the tourney!!!
    
    Joe
       

    Any scores yet?
    

    OSU DEFEATED MEW MEXICO
    PITT TRAILS GEORGIA 70 -68 IN OT

    Oklahoma State beat New Mexico.  They left the game to show Georgia
    and Pitt so I didn't get the score.
    
    Cowboy

    FINAL SCORES
    
    DUKE 102
    NORTHEAST LA.   73
    
    OSU 67
    NEW MEXICO 54
    
    PITT 76
    GEORGIA 68  OT

    SETON HALL 26 
    PEPPERDINE 13

    Last year somebody posted an 800 number for one of those Las Vegas
    betting prediction places.  After the obligatory commercial they
    gave up-to-the-minute NCAA scores.
    
    Anybody know that number?
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Arkansas beat Georgia St.
    E. Michigan beat Miss. St.
    St. Johns up by 8 over N. Illinois with about a minute left.
                    

    Final scores:
    
    SJU   75   NIU    68; What happened? SJU was up by 16 at halftime, and
    then by 20 (so I heard) in the second half.  How did it get so close?
    
    EMU   76   MSU    56
    
    Ark  117   Ga St  77
    
    MSU   23   Wis GB 21
    
    UCLA  10   PSU    10
    
    Redmen Phil
    

>    Last year somebody posted an 800 number for one of those Las Vegas
>    betting prediction places.  After the obligatory commercial they
>    gave up-to-the-minute NCAA scores.
>    
>    Anybody know that number?
    
	Sent it to me too if someone finds one! I never though those
	22 cent phone calls could add up to much, but they do!

Paul 

    
    I am not surprised Eastern Michigan and Xaivier won. It was certainly
    not that big a shocker with Richmond,even though I picked Syracuse.
    I don't even consider a lot of the results where hgiher seeds lost to
    be upsets;I think the seedings are terrible,underrating teams from
    lesser conferences.
    
    Take Xaivier;Six straight NCAA appearances against the newcomers from
    Nebraska. I had little doubt about that result. Temple had no business 
    being a 10 against Purdue 7,it should have been reversed. The 11 vs 6
    and 10 vs 7 matchups were even at 4-4 and now an underrated 12 has
    beaten an overrated 5. 
    
    These results are not the huge upsets we are led to believe.

	2nd Half:	Wisconsin-Green Bay 53, Michigan State 48
			UCLA 38, Penn State 38
	Half:		Rutgers 36, Arizona State 30
			Texas 32, St.Peter's 30

    More scores:
    
    Texas   30		St Peters   28
    
    UCLA    38		Penn St     32
    
    Wis-GB  51		Mich St     46
    
    Rutgers 36		Ariz St     30
    
    Redmen Phil
    

    Thanks for those scores,we sure appreciate them!!!!!!!!
    

Mich. St. 60
Wisc 58

    Hey guys..
    	I'm stuck here till 3:00 am today..I sure would appreciate it if
    someone would be so kind to keep me posted during the games...at least
    some final scores as they come in. I have no radio or T.V. to go by.
    
    thanks hopefully!
    
    B.A.

	Final:		Michigan State 60, Wisconsin-Green Bay 58
	2nd Half:	UCLA 60, Penn State 59
			Rutgers 51, Arizona State 49
			Texas 46, St.Peter's 37

	2nd Half:	Penn State 71, UCLA 67
			  25 seconds left, PSU at free-throw line
			Rutgers 63, Arizona State 63
			  about 6.5 minutes left
			Texas 60, St.Peter's 52

	Final:		Penn State 74, UCLA 69
			Arizona State 78, Rutgers 76
			  14 seconds left, ASU with ball
			Texas 72, St.Peter's 65
			  just under 2 minutes to go

	Final:		Arizona State 79, Rutgers 76
			Texas 73, St.Peter's 65

    
    	Thanks guys...
    	
    	Sounds like that ASU game was a tough one...
    
    B.A.

    Damn,two New Jersey teams at once! Go Princeton!

	The report I heard indicated that Rutgers trailed by 2 with 3
	seconds left, had the ball under their own basket, and threw the
	ball away.

	Halftime:	South Alabama 41, Utah 34

                                  NCAA SECOND ROUND
 
                                        EAST
     Saturday:   
     #03 Oklahoma State____________ |    |    | #06 N.Carolina State__________
     #10 Temple____________________ |    |    | #15 Richmond__________________

     Sunday:
     #12 Eastern Michigan__________ |    |    | #13 Penn State________________
     #01 North Carolina____________ |    |    | #09 Villanova_________________

                                     SOUTHEAST
     Saturday:
     #03 Kansas____________________ |    |    | #06 Pittsburg_________________
     #02 Indiana___________________ |    |    | #07 Florida State_____________ 

     Sunday:
     #01 Arkansas__________________ |    |    | #08 Arizona State_____________
     #04 Alabama___________________ |    |    | #05 Wake Forest_______________

                                      MIDWEST
     Saturday:
     #02 Duke______________________ |    |    | #07 Iowa______________________
     #11 U. Connecticut____________ |    |    | #14 Xavier (Ohio)_____________

     Sunday:   
     #04 St. Johns_________________ |    |    | #05 Texas_____________________
     #01 Ohio State________________ |    |    | #08 Georgia Tech______________

                                        WEST     
     Saturday:
     #03 Seton Hall________________ |    |    | #11 Creighton_________________
     #02 Arizona___________________ |    |    | #10 BYU_______________________

     Sunday:
     #04 Utah______________________ |    |    | #05 Michigan St.______________
     #01 Nevada Las-Vegas__________ |    |    | #08 Georgetown________________
                                                            

    Well, I went 20-12 in round one of my pool. That means the best I can
    do is go 10-6 next round because of the way my bad picks line up from
    round one. 
    
    I really got hammered in the East. Only got two games right. Did ok
    everywhere else.
    
    My only prayer of winning this thing is if UNLV doesn't win the
    championship. 
    
    JoJ

    Results at end of day (don't remember the scores)
    
    East:  Oklahoma State and Temple win
    Southeast:  Indiana and Kansas
    Midwest:  Duke and UConn
    West:  Seton Hall and Arizona
    
    In these brackets so far, the real upsets have ended up being Syracuse
    and Nebraska.  They are the only 2 and 3 seeds who haven't advanced.
    
    John

    For the second year in a row, the Mid-American Conference sends its rep
    to the Sweet 16!  No better way to gain respect than to earn it.  Penn
    State beating UCLA certainly helps, but making it to the Sweet 16 is
    still one helluva accomplishment.
    
    And to all you who were saying Utah wasn't a ligit top 10 team, here's
    a big raspberry fer ya:
    
    	THHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHPPPTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!
    
    Rick Majeris took Ball State to the second round two years ago if I'm
    not mistaken.  
    
    	--dan'l

    Today's winners are North Carolina, Eastern Michigan, Arkansas,
    Alabama, Ohio State, St Johns, Utah and UNLV.
    
    The Southeast Regional held form perfectly with no upsets at all. 
    While the West Regional had 2 upset winners (Creighton and BYU) it had
    no effect on the end result as the 1-4 seeds have advance.  In the
    Midwest, UConn and Xavier were the first round upset winners but 1, 2,
    4 and 6 have advanced, the #6 seed being UConn.  The East Regional was
    the mess.  It had 4 first round upsets and has seen the 1 and 3 teams
    advance but the others there are #10 Temple and #12 Eastern Michigan.
    
    John

    Oops, UConn was a #11 seed, not a #6.
    
    John

    Did anyone else think yesterday's game was called heavily in UNLV's
    favor?  The non-call when Harrison got floored took that game away from
    Georgetown who was in postion to make a stretch run.
    
    I like Larry Johnson as a player, but he seems like a real jerk as far
    as sportsmanship goes.
    
    Eastern Michigan has the coolest uniforms of the sweet 16.
    
    I've got some seats to the sold out regionals in Charlotte if any of
    you want to make a deal (Kansas vs Indiana, Arkansas vs Alabama).
    
    I think Dean Smith finally figured out that Montross is a good player. 
    That only took 20 weeks.  Dean is getting quicker as he gets older.  If
    Dean gives him the minutes he gave him yesterday, UNC just might have a
    chance this year.
    
    Don't take Temple too lightly...but something also tells me OK State is
    going to the Final Four.
    
    	--dan'l

    Well, I went 7-9 for round two. Of course I started out 0-6 before the
    round even started so I didn't do too badly.
    
    On the bright side, 3 out of my final 4 picks are still alive and well
    so I could cash in on the big points for picking the later rounds
    correctly.
    
    Duke is looking real good as is Seton Hall. 
    
    JoJ
    
    re: Dan
    
    How'd your boy "whiney face" do this weekend?

    I was also 20-12 in the first round(I did pick Xaivier and Eastern
    Michigan),but only 6-10 in round 2. I mistakenly picked a lot of upsets
    this year and that just hasn't happened. 
    
    One thing that stands out among the sweet 16. For once it is a cross
    section of the best teams in each conference. Only connecticut would
    not be here with my 4 team per conference limit. The Huskies have had
    the luckiest draw by far facing injury weakened LSU and Xaivier squads.
    
    For the most part,the seeding committee has done a good job. One extra
    bright note for Seton Hall fans: Danny Hurley (Bob's more talented
    younger brother and a Seton Hall recruit) was the MVP as St Anthonys
    of Jersey City(Terry Dehere and Jerry Walker) easily won the NJ
    tournament of champions yesterday.
    
    
    

 Yeah, I'm about to get lapped, it seems like, in our office pool.   I went
 a miserable 18-14 in the first round and followed that up with an equally
 horrid 7-9 second round.   I did have Xavier and Richmond but I put too
 much faith in some other upsets that just didn't happen.   I thought East
 Tennessee would stick around a little longer and I was also praying for a
 monster upset of Princeton over North Carolina.
 
 We've got one fellow in our pool who went 26-6 and then 12-4.  Ouch.  I'm
 probably already mathematically eliminated.
 
 Bob Hunt

    > and I was also praying for a monster upset of Princeton over North
    > Carolina
    
    A bit of advise for ya Ketch: 'Bet with your Head, not your Heart.'.
    
    HTH,
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    The only big confernece left out of this year's sweet 16 is the Metro.
    
    Big East - 3
    ACC,Big 10,Big 8 - 2
    SWC,SEC,BW,A10,WAC,Pac 10,Mid Am - 1
    
    Re Bob Hunt and predictions:
    
    Now that my picks went totally awry,it's so easy to see how I should
    have picked. The absencs of Missouri,kentucky and Illinois made the
    lower teams a lot weaker this year. If you had just picked the higher
    seed in every game,you would have 13 of the 16 teams correct and a
    monster record. In the Midwest,where all the seeds made it through, I 
    picked Iowa,DePaul,Xaivier and Texas.

    For those of you wondering about the legality of office pools, I read
    the following this weekend:
    
    	Illegal - something similar to pulling teams from a hat and
    	having that team throughout the tournament.  Since this is a
    	chance bet, it is considered gambling.
    
    	Legal - something like picking the entire field and betting
    	on your picks.  Here you are using your sports knowledge to
    	prognosticate.  Therefore, it is not gambling.
    
    HTH.
    
    	--dan'l

 �   A bit of advise for ya Ketch: 'Bet with your Head, not your Heart.'.
 
 This from the man who believed Pepper when she said she'd keep her hands
 off his beltless jeans.  Hey, Soup, a bit of advice for you ... Ummm,
 never mind, you figured it out already anyway ...
 
 Bob Hunt

>    	Illegal - something similar to pulling teams from a hat and
>    	having that team throughout the tournament.  Since this is a
>    	chance bet, it is considered gambling.
>    
>    	Legal - something like picking the entire field and betting
>    	on your picks.  Here you are using your sports knowledge to
>    	prognosticate.  Therefore, it is not gambling.
    

In Connecticut, there is no problem with either.  As long as all the
money in the pool is distributed to player(s) of the pool, there's
no problem.

The problem (in this state anyway) is when the runner of the pool
keeps a cut for himself/herself....


HTH,
'Saw

    
    Since when is it not gambling if some skill is involved?  I thought 
    placing bets on games with bookies, playing poker (see Lenny Dykstra), 
    etc., was illegal?  Or is there something special about keeping it
    inside the office?
    
    glenn
    

    Casino's went to the NJ Supreme Court over this.  THey  wanted to keep
    card-counting black jack players OUT of the casinos based on the fact
    that counters weren't participating in a game of chance but instead
    were playing odds.  I believe the courts upheld the casinos right to
    bar counters, who as the casinos put it, were NOT gambling.
    
    BTW, casino gamblers, Blackjack is the ONLY game where the odds can
    ride with the player NO MATTER what strategy someone told you about
    craps or roulette.  Every other game is a losing proposition and don't
    believe anything else you'll hear on the subject.
    
    Dan

    I was suprised that Georgetown was able to stay within striking
    distance, especially after UNLV raced out to that early 15-point lead.
    Can't believe that Bulls**t technical they threw on Johnson when
    Mourning fouled out.  NCAA is getting as bad as the NFL.  Just because
    the game was semi-close yesterday, doesn't mean the Rebs will be
    beaten.  I don't think they're gonna shoot that bad the rest of the
    tournament.  (38%, 19% from 3-point range.)
    
    I still can't believe that call against Utah at the end of regulation. 
    Utah was leading by 4, and the Michigan State guy made a layup.  There
    was also a foul behind the play, and they proceeded to give the
    Spartans TWO shots.  I never saw that before.  In both OT's, Utah tried
    to give it away, but just couldn't.  They couldn't get a defensive
    rebound to save their lives.  Anyways, they're the first WAC team to
    make the Sweet 16 since Wyoming in 1987.  Ironically, Wyoming lost to
    UNLV in the Sweet 16 that year.
    
    Can somebody please tell FSU that there's 2 halves to a basketball
    game?  They got totally blitzed in the 2nd half.  Hope Kansas disposes of 
    the Hoosiers. 
    
    Why CBS decided to show Texas-St. John's instead of Michigan State-Utah
    yesterday I'll never know.
    
    Joe

    re: .-1  (MSU call)
    
    I here ya.  Truly a *horrendous* call.  Me_thinks the refs tried to
    make up for their gaff last year when Kenny A's shot went in a tick
    late, but Jud still found a way to lose this one!
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Larry Johnson deserved the technical. UNLV had been warned earlier
    about taunting.  Taunting should not be allowed, nor condoned, at the
    college level (or H.S. level or below, either).   UNLV got away with
    murder.  I like when the announcer said "Just what is over the back in
    this game?"  This is after Johnson went right through Kelley on a
    missed foul shot - over the back - no call.  This right after Mutombo
    or some one on GU was called fro OVer-the-back on a less obvious call.
    
    The non-call on Harrison was horrible.  
    
    I found the referee-ing very suspect this weekend.  The favored team
    got the benefit in every game I saw.
    
    JD

    >           -< Gambling is chance.  Using skill is illegal? >-
    
    I didn't say this.  I said that, as far as I know, placing a bet on a
    sporting event with the neighborhood bookie is still illegal.  By 
    extension, one would think that office pools which involve the same 
    activity would also be illegal.  I don't doubt that in some states, 
    under a certain dollar amount and subject to certain constraints that 
    pools are completely legal.  I personally don't have any problem with 
    them whatsoever.  I was just unaware that an activity which involves 
    money and a great deal of chance is no longer considered gambling, 
    and I wouldn't count on the suggestion that if there's skill involved
    you shouldn't worry about engaging in the activity.  For what it's
    worth... 
    
    Also, blackjack too is a losing proposition under all circumstances
    where card counting is either disallowed or made irrelevant with
    the use of multiple decks.  If not just for the recreational 
    enjoyment of it, I'd stay away from all casino games if you're in it 
    for the money.
    
    glenn
    

    >Also, blackjack too is a losing proposition under all circumstances
    >where card counting is either disallowed or made irrelevant with
    >the use of multiple decks. 
    
    Multiple decks make the margin smaller, but it is still a winning
    proposition.
    
    Dan

    Hey Joe,
    	I, for one, was absolutely OVERJOYED that CBS decided
    to show LOUIEEEE and the boys.
    
    
    Kev
    
    WAYYY TOO GO LOUIEEEE!!!!!!  Sweet 16 baby!!!!!
    
    congrats.....
    

    >>Also, blackjack too is a losing proposition under all circumstances
    >>where card counting is either disallowed or made irrelevant with
    >>the use of multiple decks. 
    
    > Multiple decks make the margin smaller, but it is still a winning
    > proposition.
    
    Counting cards, yes.  Playing halfway into eight decks, you'd have to
    be a genius, though.  It depends on the particular casino's rules, but 
    playing blackjack just by a static set of rules pays off at something
    like 48%, tops.  If it were anything but, a couple of stiffs like you 
    and I could bankrupt all of the casinos in the country in not much 
    time at all.  I think this is pretty much what the casinos were getting 
    at in their suits against card counters.  The odds *have* to be in 
    their favor in *all* games, or they simply wouldn't be around long.
    
    glenn
     

    
    The general rule around here in MA seems to be that gambling is O.K. as
    long as the State gets a piece of the action.  A person can't run a
    numbers game, but the State does.  It's illegal for me to call my
    bookie to put a few bucks on the ponies or the puppies, because they
    can't monitor and grab off a piece of his share, or a piece of my
    winnings for that matter.
    
    When I worked a local church Bingo game a few years back, I was told by
    one of the State Inspectors that Bingo was the largest gambling money
    revenue in the State, even outstripping the Megabucks lotteries and the
    Instant Game tickets.  That was because there are many games in many
    towns and cities running Bingo seven nights (and weekend days), and the
    State was entitled to 5% of the GROSS.
    
    Dickstah
    

     
      Glenn,
        I thought the odds on blackjack were higher, like above 
    90%. Besides that small nit, I agree  with what your saying. 
        The thing is, because of the odds at *any* game, the casino 
    is going to get a couple of pennies of every dollar bet. Some games
    have better odds than others. The best odds are the slots. The
    worst odds are roulette, excluding the money wheel. Of course, 
    if your going to play the money wheel, you might as well just
    pull a couple $20's out of your pocket and set fire to them. :^>
    
    Bull~_who's headed for A.C. on Wednesday
    

�   Here you are using your sports knowledge to prognosticate.


Sorta like using my yacht to pick up chicks. hey?

Mike JN

  �  Counting cards, yes.  Playing halfway into eight decks, you'd have to
  �  be a genius, though.  
    
 Either a genius or the "Rain Man", Raymond Babbitt.
 
 My father, a high school math teacher, taught John Scarne's son, oh, about
 15 years or so ago.   John Scarne was one of the world's foremost experts
 on all kinds of gambling and card games.  He wrote "Scarne On Cards" and
 "Scarne On Gambling" which are just about the "bibles" of that industry.  
 His hands were filmed doing the card tricks and stunts on the train in the
 Redford-Newman movie "The Sting".
 
 Mr. Scarne was banned from most casinos in the world.   He was an expert
 card counter and he was of the opinion that no human being was capable of
 counting a six (or more ...) deck shoe.
 
 Most of the casinos in Vegas and Atlantic City use a six deck shoe *plus*
 the dealer always cuts the first six cards off the top of the newly
 shuffled shoe and discards them.  This is supposed to stop even the best
 card counters dead in their tracks.
 
 Bob Hunt
 
 P.S.  Young John Scarne used to keep our family entertained with tales of
 his father's exploits for hours on end.  Once, Mr. Scarne had to see a
 doctor for some tests and the unknowing doctor wanted to test his hands
 and gave him a couple of fifty-cent pieces to finger.   Poof.   Gone.

�    The worst odds are roulette, excluding the money wheel.

If you play the Red and the Black you have a 48% chance of winning [ 0
and 00 are green ] (pretty good odds compared to most gambling games) 

I always liked craps, and have always read that this is the game with
the most favorable odds for the bettor, with Blackjack being next.

Mike JN
the bettor was in this game (I forget the rationale), and that Blackjack
was the next game most favoring the bettor.

Mike JN

�    and gave him a couple of fifty-cent pieces to finger. 

Is it okay if I don't comment on this?

Mike JN

Well, I can't say much about gambling because all I ever do is
lose a roll or two of quarters in the slot machines.

However, one of the fellows on the team tends to make money at
blackjack pretty regularly.  He plays at a table till he wins,
then immediately moves to another table.

He doesn't win MAJOR bucks, but will make between $40 and $50 
a night when things are going good.

Quite honestly, gambling scares me, because when I win I get a
BIG rush, and I have a feeling that I could be one of those
compulsive gamblers if I ever seriously pursued it as a pastime.


'Saw

>                       -< UNLV B-Ball = Miami Football >-
  
    Yes, they're both awesome teams.  :^)  

    >          -< No problem?  Why you still working at DEC, Dan? >-
    
    The margin is too small, the expected swings are too exasperrating and
    the zero-sum theory with the casino having slightly deeper pockets than
    I do.  Depending on what kind of count you are using, you're
    overestimating the difficulty of counting into multiple decks.
    
    Dan

    Dan, you still haven't answered me...how'd your boy whiney-face do this
    weekend?
    
    JoJ

    re: 102
    
    You must have been too close to one of the school's areas.  Here in
    Wisconsin they showed nealy all of the MSU-Utah game.
    
    It was great to finally watch MSU, (my alma-matter).  And I really
    dodged a bullet here.  After I go mouthing off about UW-Green Bay, 
    the NCAA goes and matches MSU up against them.  TG MSU won that one.
    
    Commander Scott

    Dean SMith has gone to the final 16 11 straight times.. Homw many time
    in that streak did he make the final 4? ANd hom many times did he win
    it all???
    
    Rick

    PJ is 8-2 in tourny play with Seton Hall. Or is it 9-2 now...
    
    The Hall will crush Arizona.
    
    JoJ

�    The Hall will crush Arizona.
    
Seton Hall stars in the new flick "Crushing Arizona".....

>    re: 102
>    
>    You must have been too close to one of the school's areas.  Here in
>    Wisconsin they showed nealy all of the MSU-Utah game.
   
    I just figured being here in a WAC city (Colo. Spgs.) they would show 
    a WAC team.  On Saturday they didn't show us the BYU game either, but
    the reason there was becasue a Big 8 team was playing opposite them.
    
    Joe 
 

>Seton Hall stars in the new flick "Crushing Arizona".....
    
    Which reminds me of a sports-related movie trivia question.
    
    Name the sports figure who had a role in "Raising Arizona".  Bonus
    points for naming another movie he played in that starred an
    ex-M*A*S*H star.
    
    Dan

    Randall "Tex" Cobb, The Rider of the Apocalypse.
    
    Ya got me on the second part, though.
    
    	--dan'l

 M*A*S*H ... the film or the television series ???
 
 Bob Hunt

    Though the reporter who axed Bob about FSU's "athleticism" took a
    shot during the pregame press conference, he looked like a genius
    during the first half of the FSU vs. IU game.  At one point during
    the first half:
    
    	* FSU was on a pace for 40 offensive rebounds
    	* FSU was on a a pace for 20 steals
    	* FSU was leading by 11 and with any kinda luck on the rolls
    	    woulda been up by 20 and going away.
    
    They were taller, stronger, and quicker.  Indiana, shorter, weaker,
    and slower, was so intimidated that at their nadir they had trouble
    completing passes or getting a defensive rebound.
    
    Then, Bob called time out.  He benched "center" Matt Nover for good, 
    made adjustments to slice the 3-2 zone, and laid out a plan to plug 
    the lanes on the board-crashing FSU widebody studs.
    
    Cain you spell "38 point turnaround?"
    
    I wonder what woulda happened if Dale Brown had been coaching IU
    that night.  
             
    If Indiana only had a center and one reserve forward, they'd have
    a shot at UNLV's Runnin' Professionals...
    
    Big10 Tom

    TV series, Bob.  Hint: Trapper John...low budget, but excellent film.
    
    Dan

What Sport did Randall play?  Football no doubt, but where?

'Saw

    Here's a double hint, 'Saw.  Randall played a role in ending one of
    Howard Cosell's gigs.
    
    Dan

Whoa, Dan, I'm hazy on that...

I'd say that Randall played football for the Dallas Cowboys.  I'm probably
wrong, and I KNOW I should know better, but don't.....

'Saw

    Larry Holmes hit Cobb about 500 times right on the button, but
    couldn't even come close to knocking him down.  Legs never even
    wobbled.  Howard spent most of the fight saying that Cobb has no chance
    and it should be stopped, decried the brutality of the sport, and never
    announced another pro fight.
    
    Dan

Oh, then Dan I was *really* off the mark.

Cobb is a mean looking sucker, ain't he?  But he's one of my favs....

I thought Cobb did some Pro Wrestling.

Mike JN

    No, as I understand it, Cobb was quite an accomplished kick boxer. One
    of the best in the world. {Well at least in the Top 20}.
    
    The fact he was even in the ring against Holmes is another chapter in
    the sorry Great White Dope saga which includes the immortal Duane
    Bobbick and the greate Chuck Wepner.
    
    Rich
    

    I believe at one time Cobb was PKA heavyweight champion.  I was
    him fight a few times and was suprosed at how nimble he was
    for a big man.
    
    Jimbo

Hey BA here's the scores so far

 final Arkansas 93 Alabama 70
 FINAL SETON HALL 81 Zona 77 HIP HIP HORRAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 1 st half Kansas 26  Indiana 9....

 mike

Thanks...I was looking for them!
B.A.

  <<< Note 114.140 by MAXWEL::CHILDS "Baseball = Hi-Bore-Nation Season ;^(" >>>
                 -< Bobby's going to have to work magic again >-


Hey BA here's the scores so far

 final Arkansas 93 Alabama 70
 FINAL SETON HALL 81 Zona 77 HIP HIP HORRAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 1 st half Kansas 26  Indiana 9....

 mike

    Mike, ya beat me to it.
    
    Way to go PIRATES. Dehere was awesome tonight. Interesting move by PJ;
    keeping Taylor on the bench for most of the last 5 minutes, then
    bringing him in at crunch time. 
    
    That's as big a win as you are gonna see in the tourny, unless the Hall
    knocks off UNLV and gets to the final four.
    
    What great poise and confidence the Hall showed tonight. They actually
    out-rebounded Arizona.
    
    Just a great game all around. Even better with the Hall winning.
    
    JoSH

    Well, it's 12:30 AM and I just returned from the Charlotte Colesium. 
    The final scores of both games don't indicate just how exciting they
    were.  Here are a few observations:
    
    Arkansas only won because they were the less sloppy of the two teams. 
    Both they and Bama put on an exhibition of non-stop turn overs and
    endless scrambles for the ball.  
    
    Oliver Miller is f___ing HUGE!!!  You really don't appreciate it until
    you see him in person.  He moves that 275+ pounds pretty well...and
    he's the only one who can move it...once he's in the lane, no one bumps
    him out.
    
    Baily will lead Indiana to a national title before his four years
    are up in Hoosierville.  He is the total basketball machine.  Trouble
    was, tonight he ran into a Kansas team that could do no wrong. 
    Everything went the Jayhawks' way.  Loose balls bounced right into
    their hands and the 3-pointers rained everytime Indiana came within 10
    points.
    
    The best part about Kansas' win is that there was this Kansas co-ed
    four seats over from me.  I'm looking forward to her huge, bouncing
    pom-poms again on Saturday afternoon.  Shoulda taken me up on that
    ticket, Bob Hunt.  You'da been right next to 'em!
    
    	--dan'l

    Well, last nights West Regionals were pretty darn good.  The Seton Hall
    - Arizona game was great!  Zona came out and went up 8-0 - the UNLV
    fans and the Zona fans were already argueing around me about the final
    - when the hall went on a 14-3 run to shut everyone up.  I said to the
    UNLV fans around me that the Zona guards would not be able to stop the
    Hall's guards - and I was right.  Dehere abused Otick and Muehlebach.
    The Zona guards are a bit slow, and very, very tentative.  They seem
    afraid to drive down the damn zone. 
    
    Brian Williams is a good player, but a huge crybaby.  Sickening
    spectacle everytime he gets touched or whistled.  I was glad to see him
    sulking on the sidelines during the UNLV-Utah game.
    
    THe Hall almost blew it a few times with sloppy play.  Walker was Mr.
    Stone hands all night.  Avent really played well.
    
    The Arizona fans were shocked.  Too funny.
    
    The Utah-UNLV game was entertaining.   Utah hung in for the first half,
    but for some insane reason came out chucking threes (and missing) in
    the second half, and UNLV pulled away.  The Rebels better wake up, or
    they are going to get bounced from this tourney.
    
    OBSERVATIONS:
    
    The kingdome isn't bad to watch a game, though the arena does eat
    sound.
    
    Josh Grant of Utah is a fine player.  Moves with a natural grace that
    reminds one of a gazelle.  Great passer.  You'd never know he's 6'10"
    by the way he moves.   Utah's center, Watts - is the ultimate wide body
    - he's built like a nose tackle.  He and Larry Johnson had some great
    battles underneath.  After those two, Utah's talent level falls way off
    - even though they must have TOnga's greatest hoop player, Paul Afeaki,
    playing for them.
    
    Greg Anthoney is out of control.  He played a very selfish game.  Tark
    benched all the starters but Johnson in the 1st half, playing a team
    that looked like it was composed of the ball boys and team towell boy.
    The Rebs were sleep walking.  Larry Johnson got away with bloody murder
    underneath - and using my stopwatch, I timed him on 6 occassions in the
    lane for 5 or more seconds.  As the rebel fans told me "He was eating
    his lunch in there!"
    
    Arizona's weakness is at guard.  Great front line, but the guards have
    to go.  Tentative, slow, whiney.  
    
    Seton Hall - Missed two dunks, and made a few other mistakes that the
    cannot repeat on Saturday if they want to beat UNLV.
    
    
    The FANS:
    
    Arizona - YUPPIES.  Hundreds of them.  
    
    Seton Hall - only a few made the trip - mostly parents.  The Hall
    became the darling of the 'love the underdogs' crowd.
    
    Utah - Great fans, happy to be there.  Had the feeling they'd get beat,
    but not one of them got up to leave, even when the Utes went down by 20
    late in the game.  Love Majuris.
    
    UNLV - Fans from Hell.  Old, frumpy women dressed in Red from top to
    bottom.  I thought I stepped into the middle of Hunter Thompson's "Fear
    and Loathing in Las Vegas".  Half of 'em looked like refugees from a
    tour bus exploring America's favorite stalagmite farms.  Mean spirited
    - hate Lute Olsen - cussing him out after Zona got beat.  Highly
    confident - already making plans for the Final Four, cause they know
    the Hall caint beat them.
    
    I did sit near some 'real' UNLV fans who knew hoops.  They said they
    are scared of playing Big East and Big 10 teams, but not the ACC.
    
    WHY?  Cause they said the ACC plays wimp ball - like Duke did last
    year, and the Rebels will kill them.  They said the Big East and Big 10
    play tough defense, and have better big game coaches than the ACC!
    They said they were nervous about playing PJ's squad - and didn't want
    to meet Indiana (Direct quote:  If Indiana makes the Final Four,
    they'll probably beat us - Knight will kill Tark one-on-one coaching)
    And they don't want to meet Ohio State.
    
    They said Arkasas would be a dream rematch.
    
    I asked about UNC.  They laughed.  They said they'd score 120 vs the
    Tarheels and that it would be no contest.  They said "Heck, even Tark's
    a better big game coach than Dean SMith!"  I was rollward.
    
    
    CHEERLEADERS:
    
    The UNLV cheerleaders are out of this world.  Totally.  They made the
    other teams cheerleaders look like a midwest high school prep squad.
    These women have talent, poise, and simply amazing attributes and
    titles.   The Utah cheerleaders were not bad (The UNLV guys behing me
    were critiquing the Cheerleders:  Seton Hall - tough looking eastern
    girls, Arizona - Yuppie bride-to-be's; Utah - Nice and wholesome - heck
    they're probably still virgins (as one guy put it) - and finally the
    UNLV cheerleaders - they said they know how to keep a smile on folks
    faces - and they called them the 'meat cleavers'.)
    
    JD

    Thanks Dan'l and JD for those on scene reports. Makes me feel like I
    was there. Sorry,I can't reciprocate at the Meadowlands tonight. )-:
    
    You guys were lucky that you didn't have to watch another terrible
    performance by CBS last night. What was particularly galling was those
    interminable commercial spots they did while switching between games.
    
    CBS missed so many opportunities to switch back like I know ESPN would
    have done,because of their insatiable lust for commercials. As for
    announcing,Buckner was okay except he couldn't hide his pro-Indiana
    bias. Cunningham was very inconsistent,he made some good points,but
    often his mind was somewhere else. I hate when guys who don't do 
    college all year are brought in to do the tournament.
    
    About Seton Hall: Interesting coaching decision by PJ last night,giving
    freshman Caver so much PT. JD,was it possible that Williams only
    committed one foul? He seemed to be pushing all over the place. 

    Dave,
    
    Williams getting only one foul was one of the howlers of the evening.
    He was pushing, shoving, grabbing and hacking - and over-the-backing -
    and yet never getting whistled.  And when he did get whistled, he cried
    about it.  Unreal.  
    
    in both games last night, the refs were shakey on many calls. 
    Inconsistency was the word of the evening.  They missed two painfully
    obvious goal tends on Arizona - one was shown on instant replay and
    everyone in the place started booing the refs.  
    
    JD

 Re: CBS
 
 It doesn't do much good now to complain about how ESPN would have done the
 broadcast.  CBS has been doing the Sweet Sixteen, the Regional Finals, and
 the Final Four ever since they signed their first but now-expired contract
 for the tournament in the early 1980s.    This is the first year under the
 new deal where they do the entire tournament and ESPN is out completely.
 
 Bob Hunt

    re: CBS
    
    Since cable TV doesn't reach over the top of Pikes Peak and we haven't
    installed satellite yet, I've been "Lucky" to not be spoiled by the
    obviously superiority of ESPN.  I've thoroughly enjoyed the games so
    far on CBS and even somehow have been able to suffer through the
    commercials and the Split-screen-from-hell.  Surely CBS can't be doing
    that bad of a job.
    
    Chilled-out-cowboy-enjoying-squeaky-shoes
      

    Thanks for the write-ups, JD and dan'l!
    
    Re: coverage.  Aww, c'mon it wasn't that bad.  There were a few
    glitches in Boston, but considering that 4 games were played in the
    time span of two, and I came away feeling like I saw three of them,
    they did alright.  Yes, if all games were on different channels, I'd
    probably use my clicker differently than CBS, but given that I had a
    real sense of what happened in 3 games, I gotta give CBS some credit.
    
    Complaints: the studio scene isn't adding much.  As much as I like
    Mike, he doesn't have enough time there to get into things as he does
    on radio.  At least he found a suit that fits, even though it's a
    house.
    
    They cut away from the Hall game to show the tipoff of Indiana.  For
    what purpose?  They cut away from the UNLV game totally without notice
    right to the Indiana game, and then back again, without notice, a few
    minutes later.  They ought to keep everyone informed, including the
    announcers.
    
    I like listening to the on-court mikes when they seem to turn them up
    during foul shots.  Give me more of that, CBS.
    
    As for the games, PJ gave the Hall every chance to win, and win they
    did.  Played Walker for big minutes, kept his big people out of foul
    trouble, and obviously had them laying off on the gimme's, unlike Big
    East action.  And gave it to the guards when it counted.
    
    I think the opposition is getting up higher for UNLV than is being
    given credit.  They keep winning, don't they?  UNLV-Hall should be a
    thriller.
    
    Everyone was figuring Kansas-IU as an even matchup, but IU players
    (aside from Damon) were disappearing for long stretches and made plenty
    of unforced errors.  The KU backcourt and small forward positions badly
    outplayed their IU counterparts, where it was perceived IU had their
    strength.
    
    Dan

    More about last night.
    
    What impressed me about Vegas was the play of Spencer and Eckles.  Both
    hit big shots, and got HUGE offensive boards and follow up hoops - plus
    SPencer got some nice defensive plays.  These guys seem to pick up the 
    slack when the Fab Four struggle at all.
    
    Funny moment was when Anthoney brushed his shoulder on Mr. Wide-Body,
    Watts of Utah, and gave him the cold stare.  I thought Watts was going
    to start laughing.  The Rebel fans were cracking up.  Watts was really
    big.  
    
    The key for the Hall will be their guards keeping their cool under the
    Vegas pressure, teh ablitity of Dehere to stay hot, and the ability of
    their big men to avoid foul trouble vs. Johnson and the boys inside.
    
    Vegas likes to come out and have Hunt/Augman/Anthoney hit a few threes
    early, then go inside to Johnson.  If you can avoid giving them the 
    easy three, you can stay in it.  Vegas gets undisciplined and
    frustrated if things don't go their way.
    
    JD

      Hi,
    
        In a friendly pool, I picked Seton Hall to go all the way
        as I figured UNLV would be too hard (require getting too
        many early games right).
    
        Do they have a chance?  What do ya think?  Man, I don't know.
        IF they can get by UNLV, wow!!
    
        As for officiating, remember the jump ball call?!!!  Can you
        BELIEVE it?  The guy was laying down with the ball and an
        Arizona guy grabs him by the neck and yanks him around and
        they call jump ball!!  Unbelievable!
    
        It was a nervous game for me.  I wanted Seton Hall, but from
        my vantage point, Arizona's field goals came too easy.  That
        front court often dropped in easy close ones.  But, the Hall
        sure is scrappy and they just have the look (as they did two
        years ago) of a team that simply does not choke.
    
        There were a couple plays that really bummed me out.  One time
        A Seton Hall guy had a def. rebound right in his hands.  He lost
        control of the ball and Arizona got it for an easy basket.  Then
        the Hall turned it over trying to pass it out and Arizona scored
        again.  BOOM, 4 point play!  Another time a missed stuff was 
        instead an easy transition basket for Arizona.
    
        Anyway, go HALL and man if they hang close I wouldn't want to
        be ANYBODY defending Dehere (sp?) with the ball.  He can seem
        to stop at will and score from anywhere.  And I would not want
        to be coaching against Carlessimo in a tight game either.  I'll
        bet the Shark sure doesn't want a close one against the Hall!
    
        Ya just gotta love Seton Hall!  (What a cool name for a school!
        Where in New Jersey are they located BTW?)
    
        I look forward to any replies on how people think they can do
        against UNLV.
    
                                               Tony

>   They cut away from the UNLV game totally without notice
>    right to the Indiana game, and then back again, without notice, a few
>    minutes later.  They ought to keep everyone informed, including the
>    announcers.
  
    I saw that, and I think it was just a screwup.  They wouldn't just jump
    from game to game like that without informing the audience.  Heck,
    sometimes they must think we're a bunch of fans who never watch
    basketball, because they're still putting up those captions that tell
    us who's who:
    
    ALABAMA IN RED
    ARKANSAS IN WHITE
    
    Duh, gee, thanks.  Uh, I just figured the teams's name on the unies
    didn't mean anything.
    
    Joe  

Based on the times I've seen each team play this year, I really don't
think Seton Hall has much of a chance. I know they are playing better
ball now than they have all year, but UNLV seems unstoppable.

Every game I've seen UNLV play, it's not like they come out and try to
beat another team 120 to 47 (in other words, not a Houston Football, or
Oklahoma Basketball mentality). They come out, and crash the boards, and
pass the ball around, everybody gets some shots, has a little fun, and
when the other team gets close, they go on a 10 - 15 point tear.

UNLV can be beat, but I think it's going to take some good luck for the
opposing team, some bad luck for UNLV, some help from the refs, and
EVERYBODY on the opposing team is going to really have to play out of
their ass.

Mike JN

    Seton Hall is in South Orange, NJ, I believe.
    
    John

    Seton Hall is definitely in South Orange, NJ.
    
    It's original location was in Madison, NJ....but that was before any of
    our times (except maybe LeE).
    
    JoJ

    SHEEYITTT!!!!!
    <set mode==:anger to the max>
    
    I still haven't simmered down too much with what the local CBS (channel
    7) affiliate did lasted(tm) night.  
    First, I was a bit frosted that CBS had intended to begin broadcasting
    at 8:00 and show the SJU game in progress but what the heck, that's
    life.
    
    Then at 8:00 I plopped down into my swivel chair, had 2 ice cold
    brewskie's standing by and flicked on the TV.  To my chagrin, at 8:01
    the station dorks voice say's, "We'll be resuming our regular scheduled
    broadcast at 8:30 after this special......".  Then those rating
    grabbing, sensationalist - broadcasting b*stards jumped into "The
    Trial"!!!  Needless to say, I was livid and went nuclear!
    
    <background info>
    About 1.5 years ago, the FCC came out with some kind of rule that
    allowed cable companies to delete quasi-repetitive stations from their
    offering.  In the Worcester area, that meant that the R.I. station
    equivalent's to the Boston guys were dropped and I lost access to the 
    Providence  CBS afiliates.  Hence, only the Boston CBS was available to
    me.
    
    After cussing enuf to make a sailor blush, my wife decided that it was
    time to make tracks and she and Greg hoofed it upstars to avoid hurting
    their ears.  Then I went looking for whereever I stashed my rabbit ears
    to try to yank out the cable and try to get the RI station.  In the
    meantime, I called Boston CBS and was obviously too kind as I voiced 
    my displeasure since they didn't reverse their decison.  Damm, I's
    like to letter bomb the a**hole who had *NO* symapthy.  As a matter of
    fact, he was bloody arrogant with the *tough sH*t sport* attitude.
    
    Couldn't find the antenna...
    
    At 8:30, BBall was shown and by that time, SJU had something like a
    18-20 point lead; the freekin game was already over!!!!!!(IMO)
    
    ^&$!$&^%!$#*&^%!*&$!@&###*@#!#)~
    
    ARGHHHHHH!
    
    I'm very, very pleased they won but DAMMM, I wanted to watch they game.
    
    How does one seek/obtain revenge against Ch. 7?
    
    KLev
    

    First off, I want to congratulate LOUIEEE and the boys for an excellent
    tournament so far.  They managed to overcome the SI cover jinx and win
    against OSU.  Now we're in the "super 8".  Who wudda thunk it????
    
    LOUIEE's been doing a great job in preparing the guys for each game and
    I thought that I'd share some of my thoughts about the Duke game on
    tomorrow and invite comments.
    
    First, I have a gut feeling this is the last game of the year for the
    Redmen but I'm gonna do a novena tonight to keep them alive ;*)
    
    If Duke hits the 3's like they did last night, it'll be over quick.
    If they don't, SJU MIGHT take it.
    Malik's gotta have a awesome game and Werdann's got to neutralize
    Laetner (stay within 5 points of him).  Both centers are 6'11" and can
    play.
    I hope Buchanan's eye is OK.  He got a good poke in last night's game.
    
    I think SJU's frontcourt vs Duke's frontcourt is almost even, advantage
    Duke because of their 3 pt. potential (cancel's out Hurley's mistakes)
    
    Backcourt? Advantage SJU because of Malik and the wide bodies LOUIEEE
    has.
    
    Center? Duke (Laetner - a better all-around player) Sorry Rob....
    
    Coaching? very, very slight advantage Mike K. He (IMHO) is more
    imaginative when it comes to adapting.
    
    If both teams play as they are normally capable and we don't have too
    much whistle stuff (early), once the players get into a groove, I see
    the winning margin <4 points.  Should be a GREAT game!!!!!
    
    Good Luck Redmen!!!
    
    Kev
    

    Kev, the Redmen do have a real good chance vs. Duke.  Last year's game 
    was a good indication.....we lost Boo; they lost Ala, Henderson and 
    Brickey. 
    
    The Redmen are primed to win.  
    
    (How's that for this pessimistic Redmen sort!!)
    
    I think Duke is ready to miss the Final Four this year, right now,
    tomorrow, vs,. SJU.  I'm on the bandwagon!
    
    Redmen Phil
                                              

    Phil,
    I think we are in the same jury box.  LOUIEEE and the boys DO have a
    real good  *chance* to win but if we get realistic for minute, I think
    we are both respectfully aware of Duke & ALL their waepons.
    
    Last year was ancient history.  This year is now.  IMO, we've gotten
    this far because of LOUIEEE's ability to keep the troops motivated and
    ready to play (granted we DO have a few capable horses).
    
    I have a foreboding feeling about the game but nonetheless, 
    
    
    
    	I airn't ready to concede defeat!!!
    
    	SJU is Gonna Win ( in a nail bite "r )
    

    What a couple of boring games. Arkansas-Kansas was pretty good at
    times, although it ended up a blow out. UNLV and Duke won in games that
    would have been stopped if they were boxing matches. Only the
    UNC-Temple game had any excitment to it. I guess if you were a fan of
    one of the winning teams, you enjoyed it. But it seems to me that the
    Final Four is close to becoming another Super Bowl type of event, ie
    the hype doesn't live up to the game. 
    
    Dennis
    

    I think Duke has a legit shot at beating UNLV, but I doubt they will.
    UNLV is very tough. Much tougher than I thought. They're awesome at
    every position.
    
    Sorry to see the Redmen go down this afternoon. I think Louie should
    have worn the hunter sweater....
    
    JoJ

    Oh yeah, I almost forgot....
    
    Hey Dan, did ya catch your buddy, "Whiney Face" today? He poured in 20
    points and was named Regional MVP. Just thought you'd be glad to hear
    that.
    
    JoJ

    
    
    One can only ponder what might have been had Buchanan not been called
    for 3 fouls in the first 7 minutes of the game and Werdann's
    injury(ies?) not kept him out of the "core" part of the game.....
    
    Damm...
    (maybe I should say "Rats" instead?)
    
    :*(
    JoJ - I don't think Duke has the players to do it although I'd like
    to see them pull it off.
    
    more later, still haven't gotten over the disappointment,
    Kev
    

    Don't blame CBS for cutting to the trial - sounds like it was a local
    decision to me.

    Mac,
    	IMO it's immaterial who made the decision and I agree it
    was probably the local management - that's why I called Boston
    to b*tch and not NYC.
    
    Nonetheless, it (the decision) still sucked.  I mean, its not as if
    there had been NO coverage of the trial during the last 2 weeks.
    
    Kev
    

    First - Congrats to the Final 4 teams.
    
    Second - SJU-Duke was a game decided early - especially be the refs
    whistle.  Do you know that Duke was only whistled for 10 fouls the
    *WHOLE* game.  ANd 3 or 4 of them came late in the second half. 
    Totally bogus.  SJU got called for hand checks, while Hurley can bump
    with the body - oh well.  SJU turned the ball over too much.  That's
    life.  Never expected them to make the final 8.
    
    Duke will get crushed by UNLV.  Hurley will get eaten alive.  Hill will
    get eaten alive.  Laetner will be destroyed.  Coach K will continue to
    be a man who can get them to the show, but can't get them any further.
    Duke's a waste of a Final Four spot - you know they are never goin to
    win.
    
    Seton Hall-UNLV - well the crowd was overwhelmingly pro-UNLV. Before
    the game, the consensus was that UNLV was going to the FInal FOur - the
    hall didn't have a chance.  First half was good, but the beginning of
    the 2nd half was doom for the Pirates.  IMO, PJ made a bad move - he
    should have called a TO right away when he say that UNLV had upped the
    pressure.  The BIG mistake PJ made was in the 1st half - Larry Johnson
    got 2 fouls in the first 6 minutes - and instead of attacking him, the
    Pirates avoided him.  Not that it would've mattered.  After Larry
    Johnson's second foul, the refs didn't whistle a foul vs. Vegas for a
    little over 11 minutes.   No way a team plays bump and grind defense,
    crashes the boardss like Vegas without committing a foul.
    
    Had a good time with the Vegas guys behind me.  They were laughing
    about how the refs never call Johnson for 3 seconds, or Spencer or
    Eckles for over the back.  We used the stopwatch on Johnson in the
    paint - there were *FIVE* straight UNLV possessions where he hung out
    in the paint for 5 seconds or more (the highest was 8.7 seconds).  He
    scored on 4 of them.  The refs seem afraid to call 3 seconds or over
    the back anymore.  It's a shame.
    
    Consensus by the UNLV fans was that the only way UNLV would lose is if
    either Coach K or Dean SMith were able to pocket the referees if they
    met.  Said the refs are wimps when it comes to calling fouls against
    them 'nice' boys from Duke and UNC.
    
    All 3 guys were heading for Indy for the Final Four.  THey were hoping
    for a rematch with Duke (We'll blow 'em out again) - said the players
    and the fans hate Duke because of Duke's fans.  "A bunch of spoiled
    little Yuppie larvae" as one of 'em said.
    
    Talked about UNLV and image.  Said look, the NCAA doesn't give a crap
    if a guy from a 'nice' school slap around a women or beats up a women
    (talking about King Rice) - but they do care if the players make phone
    calls from their room and don't pay for 'em.   Go figure.
    
    At the end of the game, the Hall cheerleaders and band started chanting
    "We'll be back, we'll be back".  The guys behind me started chanting
    "No threepeat, no threepeat, Probation Looms, Probation Looms"  Too
    funny.
    
    JD

	I saw Snuffy last night on ESPN saying how Kansas coach Williams 
knows UNC's talent better than he knows Kansas' talent because Willians 
recruited some of the UNC players.  That'll be a new excuse that ACCaught 
can add to the "excuse arsenal".

				/Don

    
    If Dean Smif was blue he'd look just like a smurf!
    
    
    
    Steve

    >Then those rating
    >grabbing, sensationalist - broadcasting b*stards jumped into "The
    >Trial"!!!  Needless to say, I was livid and went nuclear!
    
    You and me both, Kev.  Hang this one on WHDH.  I turned it on about
    8:03, and had no idea what was going on...if they were breaking to the
    game any minute or not.  By the time I figured out that this was more
    trial bullshit, I started calling them, but it was always busy.  When
    the SJU/OSU game was over, I called again and got through.  The news
    director gave me the program director's number, which he said will be
    answered during business hours.  I'll bring in the # and post it.
    
    I told him this was an inexcusable decision, considering that they are
    the only source for the NCAAs and that this "news" story had already
    been sensationalized to death on every media outlet there was.
    
    Dan

    I thought there were more important things in life than sports ;^)

    
    > I thought there were more important things in life than sports ;^)
    
    Yeah, sex and violence-- and that's what Channel 7 gave us!
    
    glenn
    

    re: JD
    
    I was wondering why Johnson never got called for three seconds
    also...seemed like he just camped out in the paint. Not that it would
    have made a difference on the outcome.
    
    re: Dan
    
    Still waiting to hear your reply regarding your buddy, Bobby
    "whiney_face" Hurley. Was he as good as I said he would be? Lemme help
    ya....YES.
    
    Hope you enjoyed it.
    
    JOJ

Hey JoJ....

This incredible thing happened to me this weekend.

At one point, I was sitting down for some coffee and the morning
paper.  I flipped on the TV, and did some remote control roulette,
when all of a sudden I stopped on this Lifetime channel, and there
was this re-run TV Series called "Day by Day".

Anyway, lo and behold, the father comes into the kitchen, and it's
none other than JOJ.  Uncanny likeness.

So, JoJ, you can come clean now.  How long have you been moonlighting
as an actor, and does your manager know and approve of these little
extracurricular activities????

'Saw

    JoJ, Whiney-Face Hurley will show his true colors on Saturday.  Be
    there.  Aloha.
    
    BTW, where was Jack Craig blasting WHDH-WV (Ch. 7 Boston, CBS
    affiliate) in yesterday's column???
    
    I figure it was the most horrendous network sports-related decision of
    the year, and Jack doesn't even mention it!?!
    
    Dan

    > I figure it was the most horrendous network sports-related decision of
    > the year, and Jack doesn't even mention it!?!
    
    He probably writes that Sunday column on Thursday or something... I'm
    sure we'll hear all about it, complete with the rationale from some
    dweeby station manager.  (Actually, I think Craig mentioned it in
    advance in the Friday paper-- I know I heard about it somewhere before
    I tuned in...)
    
    Fact of the matter is, that special's ratings probably cleaned up over 
    what the game would have done, but I'd like to see the network play
    hardball and require exclusivity for the *entire* tournament coverage.  
    You want to interrupt the second round coverage, fine, then you aren't
    going to televise the final game.  End of story...
    
    glenn
     

    FrankWa, I never heard of "Day by Day"...honest....
    
    But just think of how happy that actor would be if you contacted him
    and pointed out how much he resembles me.
    
    He'd be thrilled !!!
    
    JoJ

>    But just think of how happy that actor would be if you contacted him
>    and pointed out how much he resembles me.
>    
>    He'd be thrilled !!!


hhahahahahahahaha!

You're too funny JoJ....

DBD was a sitcom starring you, and Linda Kelsey as the parents.  She
ran a day care/nursery school in the home.  Courtney Thorne-Smith,
late of LA Law (the laker girl) was the assistant.  Forget who played
the son, the Julia Louis Dreyfus from SNL played the highbrown neighbor...

It was a OK series.  I just used to watch it for glimpses of Courtney!
(sigh)....

'Saw

    I see the Ch.7 problem as partially cable related.  I can't believe
    that here in Worcester we can get 3 NBC affilliates and only 1 of each
    of CBS and ABC.  I think local channels should be able to decide what
    they want to carry, but in this age of 50 bizillion cable channels
    available, you'd think there'd be more of a choice.  How many TV
    evangelical and home shopping channels do we need?
    
    Like Glenn said, Channel 7 probably didn't really care.  With no local
    teams in the action, and a highly publicized event like the Smart trial
    going on, they figured they'd draw better ratings by dropping the
    basketball.

    
> DBD was a sitcom starring you, and Linda Kelsey as the parents.  She
> ran a day care/nursery school in the home.
    
    Not that guy!  We're talking serious professional-grade quiche-eating
    yuppie!  Worse than Alan Thicke even!  Say it ain't so, JoJ!
    
    glenn         
    

>    Not that guy!  We're talking serious professional-grade quiche-eating
>    yuppie!  Worse than Alan Thicke even!  Say it ain't so, JoJ!

Yeah.  That's him.  IN fact, the family even had a pet golden retriever.
You never saw it much, but they had it...

So did Courtney....(sigh)

'Saw    

    That's who JoJ looks like? You've got to be joking, n'est pas?
    
    The guy has Yuppie written all over him. Real Dweeb like. Not a man's
    man at all....more of a true girley-mon.
    
    Jim, you look like this guy? You sounded normal on the phone.
    
    Rich
    

Joe Kelly is the JoJ lookalike....I don't see it looks wise but definately
see the lifestyle comparisions...wasn't the series like One Day at Time or
some corney thing like that. Guy quits professional job to run a daycare
center with his wife and then has to hire outside help for guys like Saw..

;^)

love the bitch next door though...

mike

    I never saw the turd and JoJ together, but I *DID* see the Dinz and JoJ
    together.  And, I thought they made a nice couple, except they kept
    arguing about which one would wear the moustache.  :*)
    
    lEe

�    I never saw the turd and JoJ together, but I *DID* see the Dinz and JoJ
�    together.  And, I thought they made a nice couple, except they kept
�    arguing about which one would wear the moustache.  :*)
    
Yeah, and JoJ kept pissing and moaning about Dinz welching on him.....

    First of all, Alan Thicke is a most excellent actor. You can't tell me
    you guys didn't dig that house he lived in. It was most excellent.
    
    I still don't know what this show  "Day by Day" was all about, but if
    they had a Golden Retreiver it must have been a good show.
    
    re: Mike
    
    You cain't accuse me of being a Yuppie....you guys were at my house,
    there's nothing yuppie about it....except for the contemporary tiel and
    mauve furnishings, the golden retreiver, the wall hangings, the brass
    lamps, and the Sony. But that's doesn't really make me a Yuppie. It
    just exhibits good taste.
    
    re: Dinz & JoJ
    
    I was totally justified in whining about Jim "Welcher" Dinzmore. The
    guy still owes me a case, but he'll never pay. But, I'd be willing to
    waive the case if he pays off that other bet he lost where he has to
    run through town in his Jock strap.
    
    JoJ
    

>    re: Dinz & JoJ
>    
>    I was totally justified in whining about Jim "Welcher" Dinzmore. The
>    guy still owes me a case, but he'll never pay. But, I'd be willing to
>    waive the case if he pays off that other bet he lost where he has to
>    run through town in his Jock strap.
    
Nothing worse in life than a welcher.

See how it happens.  First you start welching on little things, like
you won't pay little Timmy Markam the nickel you owe him because the
Mets won the Series over the Orioles.  Next thing you know you're
in high school, welching on your friends when you play Bet-A-Buck
at the High School dance.

From there you're an adult, welching on cases of beer you lose when
you make outlandish bets like the Yankees winning the world series.

Finally, you make the ultimate welch when you bet that the Whalers
will beat the Bruins out for the Adams Division crown, and that if
they don't, you'll nude up, put on a jockstrap, and run around
a track.


Just Say No To Welching!

'Saw    

    Hey Frankwa, you ever see Dinz and little Timmy Markam together?
    hmmmmm, I wonder.
    
    JoJ

    I never saw JOJ's house in Joisey, but I did see it in Colorado.  It
    was pretty yuppy.  Even had a golf course in the back yard off the
    patio.  JoJ's dog, Biff, had one of those sweaters on cause as JOJ told
    me "The night mountain air causes his hair to curl a tad much"
    
    He took me on a mini-tour, but when we went into the kitchen, he ran
    ahead of me, and slammed a few cabinet doors, and when offering me a
    drink, he tried to hide my prying eyes from the contents of the fridge.
    I did, however, catch a glimpse of bottles of Evian, Taos, some
    goose-liver pate', a big wheel of Brie, some fiddlesticks and endive
    and a some Corona Light beer.  
    
    JD

    JD, I think you had them believing you until you mentioned the Corona
    Light...nobody drinks that, do they?
    
    JoJ

JD, 

Was the Sharper Image catalog anywhere?  That's a big clue right there.

And artichokes.. were there any artichokes.


Hmmm, I think we should have a yuppie trial.  Just like the old
Salem Witch Trials, and McCarthy's big Commie Hunt, we should have
a SPORTS Yuppie Trial.....

'Saw

    Frank, since when are artichokes "yuppie-food"? My grandparents are
    from Sicily and artichokes were pretty popular in their house...
    
    I think you're way off base with that one, FrankWa...
    
    re: Sharper Image
    
    That's one of my favorite stores. I never bought anything there tho'.
    
    JoJ
    
    PS - If you have a Yuppie trial, let me know what note it's in. I'm
    only reading selected topics.

�    Frank, since when are artichokes "yuppie-food"? My grandparents are
�    from Sicily and artichokes were pretty popular in their house...
�    
�    I think you're way off base with that one, FrankWa...
    
No way.  I mean, at one point in time Brie was a favorite of the 
French farmers and cheesemakers who invented it.

It's just that these danged Yuppies get a hold of something, and
nexted thing you know it's tainted....


We're comin' ta get ya JoJ.... the Yuppie Trials are upon you!


8^)

    A few observations.
    
    KU vs. North Carolina - It's a jump ball (probably OT)  
    Give the edge to KU.  Why?  ***Burp**** Why not?   
    The Jayhawks have steamrolled two of the three most arrogent 
    programs in the country.  Take out the arrogance... and we'll 
    probably see a good game in Indy.
    
    DUKE VS. KU in the Finals.  
    
    I know I'm probably smokin' my socks on this one...but, an old 
    Kansas prophet once said:
    
         "Dicipline beats talent in pressure situations."
    
    
    - Kansas Comet (back again)
      

    Anybody know what time the games are on Saturday?
    
    - Ken -

    
    UNC vs Kansas @5:30
    Duke vs UNLV @8:00
    

    Boston University vs Northern Michigan at 8PM
    
    John

    It's Easter Sunday and I haven't stopped smiling since around 11:30
    last night.  A few observations:
    
    - I watched the game at a friend's house with Bob Hunt and a few
    others.  During halftime of the second game, I flicked the channel and
    we immediatly had some National Geographic type show and they were
    hunting and killing sharks.  Too much of a coincidence!
    
    - What a night for a UNC hater.  Dean gets ejected and Duke beats the
    "unbeatable."  As Bob Hunt said, I bet they were jumping out of windows
    in Chappel Hill.  What a baby-blue nightmare!
    
    - King Rice's comments after the game were typical: "The Duke fans
    really showed no class today.  That was terrible [saying goodbye to
    Dean with their 'See Ya' cheer] They have a great program and a great
    basketball team, but their fans have no class."  That's right, King, 
    When the chips are down, pick on the defenseless.  It's your style. 
    Glad to see the Dean system as taught you how to be gracious.
    
    - For the record, I don't think either technical was warranted, but
    Dean was out of the coach's box and the official enforced the rules. 
    End of story.  However, now Dean Smith has become the biggest martyr in
    NCAA history.  Everything I've heard about Pete Pavia is prefaced with
    "Big-East Official."  What does that have to do with it?  But the UNC
    fans won't let that one die.
    
    - Kansas won.  Does anyone even remember this after all the UNC whining
    is done?  In fact, they won handily.
    
    - Great bench scoring (13 pts) by the deepest bench in the tournament. 
    Can you spell choke!  Yes: S-M-I-T-H.
    
    - Nah, Christian Laettner has no heart.  Didn't even want to be there,
    did he?  Who wrote that in here anyway?
    
    - Larry Johnson's technical might have lost the whole game for UNLV. 
    No way should you lose your cool with four minutes left in a one point
    game.  It was the turning point even though Laettner hit only one of
    two.
    
    - Duke should beat Kansas because they've played this team three times
    already this season except that they were wearing baby blue and were
    the perenial underdogs.
    
    - Dean Smith, in case it wasn't clear from the above, choked again. 
    And he'll be loved even more in Chappel Hill when he returns.  Poor,
    poor Dean.  "Did dat nastey official pick on you even though you were in
    violation of the rules?  Sob. Sob. That's OK.  We'll love you forever
    even as you continue to choke up the big ones.  Too bad we weren't
    playing a lower seed.  It's the NCAA committee's fault!  They're such
    bad guys.  And the media.  Grrrrrrrrrr."
    
    - I guess Carolina needed more work on its man-to-man.
    
    - How long will it be until ACChris adds "refs with quick fuses" to his
    list of why UNC didn't win?  I say Wednesday when he returns.  Psssst,
    Chris.  Don't do it.  Kansas whipped your team and good.
    
    	--dan'l

    See Comet notes (.194 - KU VS. DUKE prediction) ...I guess 
    I wasn't too out of bounds.  Except for the "OT" comment.  But,
    what an ugly game!  Leave Deano out of it and it still was an
    ugly game.  I hope the FINALS are more exciting.
    
    Bottom line:  Jamison is the heart and soul of the Jayhawks O & D
    from a motivational aspect.  He'll be a Senior next year...watch out!
    
    Prediction:
    
    Cinderalla versus Bud Grant?
    ....Cinderalla by 4 in double OT!
    
    Jammin' J-hawk (aka Comet)  
    
    
    

    
    	UNLV vs. Duke was definetely the best game of the tourney to date;
    the final should be good also.
    
    	Duke did an excellent job of not allowing the ball to Larry 
    Johnson, which was one of the keys.  The other was the disappearance
    of Stacey Augmon.  Lack of concentration, not paying attention to the clock
    by letting the 45 second clock expire late in the game, and just looking 
    extremely nervous and tentative.  Couldn't have happened at a worse
    time as far as UNLV was concerned.  Early foul trouble on Ackles just
    about killed whatever defensive strategy Tark had for defending
    Laettner.  Once Anthony fouled out I knew that UNLV would basically
    be holding on from that point on; they only scored 1 point afterwards.
    
    	Though they're not gonna win it all and get the accompanying 
    accolades of 'best ever', it was still a great run and not many
    teams have the kind of year that they did, whatever consolation it 
    may be worth.  Not only that, but they handled the defeat with class
    and dignity, IMO.  
      
    						 glen j.

    WOW.
    
    UNLV appeared to lose their composure as Dan'l stated with Augmon
    screwing up, Johnson getting the "T", and Anthony fouling out.  'Twas a
    helluva game though.  I only hope tonight's is at the same emotional level.
    
    What was the story with the UNC coach/players/refs/cops after the game?
    I got the early edition paper and nothing was in there.
    
    UNC's man to man is slooooowwwwwww.
    
    					Steve

STill, the highlight for me was watching old Dean-o take the gaspipe
again.....

'Saw

    Reports are sketchy about the tunnel incident, but here is what has
    been pieced together:
    
    After the game, the UNC assistant coach (don't remember his name) was
    shouting at Pavia, "That's bush!  That's bush!" obviously referring to
    the second technical.
    
    An off duty policeman saw the coach approaching the officials and
    quickly stepped between them and pushed the coach up against the wall. 
    The UNC players turned around and saw this incident and rushed to the
    coach's defense and started into it with the officer (who I think was
    in uniform) and other officials who had gathered.
    
    All was dismissed and the NCAA is "investigating."
    
    	--dan'l

I will say that I was impressed with Dean Smith's sportsmanship however,
as he shook hands with all the players and coach on the way out.

The officiating has been very inconsistent from what I've seen.

I hope Duke wins, because I want to be able to say that the Huskies
lost to the National champs....8^)

'Saw

    Explain something please.  I've heard EVERYONE saying that UNLV was
    playing "not to lose."
    
    How can that be.  They were two points down with 12 seconds left and
    were going for a three pointer all the way.  That's playing to win. 
    Johnson could have easily taken a layup and no one from Duke would have
    risked the foul.  
    
    If anything, UNLV did not want OT.  Is that playing "not to lose?"
    
    	--dan'l

    
>    Johnson could have easily taken a layup and no one from Duke would have
>    risked the foul.  
 
 I think they would have fouled him before they'd have just given it to him.
 Afterall they were up 2, Johnson had just missed 2 out of 3 free throws.
 Duke's defense did a good job by forcing Larry to bring up the ball and then
 pinning him forcing him to pass. Hunt probably would have drove but was
 easily doubled and had no room to drive. More than anything else I think he 
 was hoping for a rebound.

 Duke played a great game and K outcoached Tark by a mile. The Larry Bird/
 Doc Midnight defense wrinkle he threw in was a beauty. Also after Tark
 went to the Amboea to get back in it, K pulls his offense out higher and 
 this opened up the baseline.

 Tonight's matchup would favor Duke but I got to like the heart and deter-
 mination that Kansas has shown. Plus the thought of how Smug the Dukies
 would get has me pulling for Kansas. Also I expect Duke to be a bit flat
 figuring that if they can beat UNLV they can beat anybody.

 mike

    re: 204
    
    I feel the same way.
    
    If Duke wins, then I can say the Redmen lost to the National Champs.
    
    However, my heart says Kansas.
    
    Redmen Phil
               

> I think they would have fouled him before they'd have just given it to him.
> Afterall they were up 2, Johnson had just missed 2 out of 3 free throws.
    
    Good point, Mike.  You are right.  Coach Kzyxzyzxyzxy probably had that
    figured too.  Good thing I wasn't coaching.  
    
    Also, for those of you wondering why Johnson didn't shoot the three, if
    you watch the replays, Laettner was right on him.  The attempt might
    have been blocked.  Then suddenly Laettner was on the double team. 
    Yeah, no heart there.
    
    I think Larry Johnson was also so surprised with the ease in which he
    got downcourt that he didn't know exactly what to do when he got to the
    line.  I think Tark probably had some play to run and Johnson never
    expected to be in the position he was in.
    
>Also I expect Duke to be a bit flat
> figuring that if they can beat UNLV they can beat anybody.
    
    Did you see Kzyzxyzxyzxy right after the clock ticked down?  He was
    doing the 'calm down' thing with his hands.  And apparantly the first
    thing he said in the locker room was, "We're here to win the
    championship, not beat UNLV."  Duke will be focused on a goal that has
    eluded them for several years.  What a great ending to the Greg Koubek
    story if they pull it off.
    
    	--dan'l

    Saw,
    
    What you call Dean's sportmanship looked bush to me.  Christ, I thought
    he was the king who just got cxoronated.  Shake hands with the coach,
    walk off the court, and afterwards be gracious.  Great message he sent
    to his players, huh?  "Yeah, witha miracle we can pull this out, but
    instead, I'll geta myself kicked out, and then say congrats to all them
    nice Kansas boys, while I lets my own team stare in shock..."
    
    What to go Deano.  Dean was out of the coaches box, on the floor lasted
    week on numerous occassions against Temple.  I guess Pavla didn't read
    his "Rules For Dean" book before this game.  In fact, the one thing
    great about Pavla is that he doesn't let coaches walk all over him - he
    lets them know he's in control.  A refreshing change fromthe refs who
    are afraid to blow the whislte against the elite coaches and favored
    teams.  Justice was served.  The announcers handled the affair as
    bushly as possible.  I'm sick of the phrase "The officials getting
    bigger than the game"  WRONG!  What about the coaches getting bigger
    than the game.  What about loud mouthed players getting bigger than the
    game.  That's the real story.
    
    Dean substitutes too much.  How he could let Fox stay in when it was
    obvious he didn't have it is beyond me.  Another excellent_loss.
    
    JD

    Now with UNLV out of the way, the big question is:
    
    
    
    Who will Billy Packer root for?
    
    My god was he pathetic Saturday night.  Blatant slant toward the
    Runnin' Rebels!
    
    Hey, Bob Hunt, check out the P-Name!  Did anyone else catch Packer say
    "He's at the scorer's table for an extended blow."  The room cracked up
    when we heard that...and "dribble penetration."  It was a very sexual
    game, no?
    
    	--dan'l

>    Hey, Bob Hunt, check out the P-Name!  Did anyone else catch Packer say
>    "He's at the scorer's table for an extended blow."  The room cracked up
>    when we heard that...and "dribble penetration."  It was a very sexual
>    game, no?


What did he mean by that?  That he needed a rest or was shooting the poop
with the scorers?

Sometimes in practice (especially scrum practice) we'll say that we
need a blow and have someone switch in for it, but I've never heard
it otherwise.....

'Saw

>Sometimes in practice (especially scrum practice) we'll say that we
>need a blow 
    
    So that's why you ruggers always have dirty knees! 8-)
    
    

 Saw and Phil,  Georgetown kick the crap out of Duke but you still won't catch
 me rooting for the DEBILS!!!!

 not to mention the fact that JOJSHYATDD would be unberable with Hurley's
 great stuff....

 Dan-l, while K was trying to be cool and keep his players that way do you
 really think he'll succeed? Maybe he will because they've been there before
 so they know what it takes but Hurley sure looked and acted like he just
 won a few kazillion dollars...

 I just can't see them getting as sky high again....Kansas has faced more
 adversity along the way and has adapted. Has Duke ever been trailing by
 double digits yet?

 Oh yeah Josh before you get too high Hurley had 8 points 4 assists at 3 turn-
 overs at one point. The difference this year was clearly the Hills and Davis
 vs. having Brickey and Henderson......

 mike

I've looked around quite a bit, and not being a basketball fanatic
have not been able to find it.

What was the historic thing that UNLV was about to do, but Duke
prevented?

I mean, it couldn't have been winning two champeenships in a row.
Was it like the number of games won in a row or something?

Deen to wonk,
'Wsa

    They were nowhere close to consecutive wins and going through an
    unbeaten season and winning consecutive titles have both been done
    before.  What's historic is that a unbeaten season with a title hasn't
    happened since Indiana in 1975-76, and consecutive titles hasn't
    happened since UCLA won 7 in a row from 67-73.
    
    John

    >I fail to see what was so classless about Dean's exit. 
    
    That's 'cause your eyes are open and your busy thinking for yourself. 
    Get with the program, will you?  We've got to conform to the vocal
    majority, no matter how self-serving it may seem.
    
    Dan

    Hawk,
    
    Cuz, I saw as another case where the Coach (or 'legend' in this case)
    once again tries to be bigger than the game itself.  Tries to detract
    from a great victory by Kansas by making it the game that Dean was
    kicked out.  It was a great way of trying to save face.  Instead of the
    aweful media types and fans taking it out on ol Dean for pulling one of
    the most bonehaid coaching jobs in the history of the NC2A, instead
    they'll remember how ol' Dean was justa so classy on the way out.  He
    was covering his ass.  And his assistant coach and players showed their
    class after the game.  Of course Dan will never comment on that.  In
    his eyes, Dean wasn't kicked out - the assistants didn't act like asses
    - and Rick Fox wasn't cold - nope, in Dan's eyes, it was the anti-Deans
    who forced all this upon Deano.
    
    Dan, you're starting to sound like ACC Chris, Jesse Helms and George
    Bush - instead of using the media as a scapegoat, you are using the
    folks who don't idolize Deano as the scapegoats.  Hrumph.  
    
    Dean blew it Dan.  I didn't, Dan'l didn't, Mike Childs didn't, Bob Hunt
    didn't, MrT didn't.  No Dan, Dean blew it again.  He's proven he can't
    win the big one again Dan.  He's proven he caint change strategy on the
    fly to produce the big win.  He's proven he can't take adversity.  ANd
    he's proven he can't admit when he's wrong.
    
    JD

I personnaly thought Dean was grandstanding when he made his exit. The point 
would have been served by just shaking the coaches hand and exiting the arena.

Not an excellent loss by itself but it adds fire to the underachiever theory.

3 more years for the greatest recruiting class ever to win a champeenship...

Metz

    Dan,
    
    Resorting to personal attacks?  I thought you disdained them.  Or is it
    another one of your double-standards.
    
    Dean choked again, Dano.
    
    

    Eeeeeeeew.  Gee, Dan.  Take that back or you might make JD cry...go
    ahead, explain what crying is to him.  You do it so well.
    
    ;-)
    
    	--dan'l

    >Dean blew it again.  He's proven he can't win the big one again Dan.  
    
    No, he's proven the opposite.  See 1982 for details.
    
    >He's proven he caint change strategy on the fly to produce the big win.  
    
    No, he's proven the opposite.  He also threw a lot of changes of
    strategy into Saturday's game, which worked well.  His team didn't win.
    
    >He's proven he can't take adversity.  
    
    No, he's proven the opposite.  He handled the adversity extremely well.
    
    JD, you've proven your criticism's of Dean are not to be taken
    seriously.
    
    Dan
                                 
                                                        

    re .206
    
> Duke played a great game and K outcoached Tark by a mile. The Larry Bird/
> Doc Midnight defense wrinkle he threw in was a beauty. Also after Tark
 
    Mike, would you mind explaining this one ?
    
    Oh yeah, I think Kansas will win this one tonight ....

 Dan, answer me this with a 9 point lead in the first half with Montross
 dominating both ends of the court Dean substituted for him, WHY? The game
 had been close till he entered and made his presences felt. KU quickly got
 back into it with him on the bench. Even his beloved worshipper Billy
 "ACC" Packer was beggin him to take a timeout....

  mike 

 Doc, that's where 4 guys play man to man and one guy plays zone...

 :^) <-- many of these

 mike

    Dan,
    
    Oh I get it now.  Dean wins once in 31 years, and that proves he can
    win the big one.  Dan, if you watched the game you would have seen that
    Dean didn't substitute well, that he didn't adjust his offense, that he
    went too late to defensive substitutions, that he didn't take advantage
    of the advantages he had.  Dan, those are facks, those aren't make
    believe.  He failed to use his strategic numbers (i.e. bench depth) to
    get KU into foul trouble (except Jamison).   
    
    Dan, Dean coached very, very poorly in this game.  And unfortunately
    Dan, its a habit he's been into for quite a while now - coaching poorly
    in big games.  If this was something that happened every so often, then
    Dean might escape teh criticism he's getting - but he does it every
    year except one.  
    
    But Dan, perhaps you are right.  Perhaps Dean should be praised for
    getting chucked out ot the biggest game of the year - and he should be
    praised for losing once again.
    
    And Dan, if Coach K.'s team don't do it, then he's another Dean in
    training.
    
    JD

 >Dan, answer me this with a 9 point lead in the first half with Montross
 >dominating both ends of the court Dean substituted for him, WHY?
    
    Well, I agree with the criticism.  I think he subbed too much in
    general this season which at times prevented continuity for his team. 
    But I think he had a purpose in his decisions, which was to keep fresh
    legs on the floor and tire out the opposition with numbers.  It worked
    to a great degree.
    
    I wouldn't say that Montross was dominating both ends.  He has
    developed nicely (some credit is due Dean) and was contributing as he
    should.  Also, Montross isn't yet a great low post option on the
    offense; Chilcutt is/was superior all year, given his nice turnaround,
    where as Montross moves with back to the basket aren't ready for the
    big time.
    
    Dan

    JD's "points"
    
    >Dean didn't substitute well
    
    Not every substitution worked out perfectly, which is the case with
    every coach in every game.  He worked the strategy that he chose for
    the team this year, and it was one of the four most successful
    strategies of the year out of the 230 or so NCAA div 1 teams.
    
    >that he didn't adjust his offense
    
    But he did adjust his offense.  Immensely.  Why do you make up such
    statements like the one above?  A few minutes into the second half, did
    he or did he not adjust his offense and start to have Fox, Davis and
    Lynch begin taking thier man off the dribble, something I hadn't seen
    all year long?  He implemented a starkly different offense just for
    this game, considering he was coaching against WIlliams who knew every
    play there was previously.
    
    >that he went too late to defensive substitutions
    
    You're not showing much ability to objectively say what he was and
    wasn't doing.  When do you think he went to defensive subs, and when do
    you think he should have?
    
    >Dan, those are facks, those aren't make believe.
    
    They are what is known as jaded opinions.  And most of 'em are dead
    wrong.
    
    >Dean coached very, very poorly in this game.
    
    It was a well coached game on both sides.  As anyone can plainly see,
    the difference was that UNC's three seniors who they've come to rely on
    all had poor offensive games and were guilty of bad decisions.  That's
    a lot to overcome for any coach.  Given that fact, a reasonable fan
    might expect a blowout.  Good coaching kept Carolina in the game.
    
    >if Coach K.'s team don't do it, then he's another Dean in
    >training.                              
    
    I don't like Coach K at all; I don't like Duke much better.  And I
    think they should win this year, and they should have beaten Louisville
    in '86.  I won't condemn him if he doesn't win, and I doubt any posse
    will form to lynch him every time his team loses in the future.
    
    Dan

 Yet Montross shot 3-for-4 in the limited "system" time he saw and Chilcutt
 was ice-freakin'-cold all day long.  But the legend loves his seniors
 soooooo systematically much that they dragged him down to yet another
 systematically excellent defeat.   Fox, Rice, and Chilcutt shot an
 unbelievably bad 8-for-36 and the poor Heels went home.
 
 I think the Carolina underclassmen ought to give the seniors a swirlie
 now.  Especially Montross.  He ought to be holding Chilcutt's head under
 water until Pete's ears turn the same shade of blue on Duke's uniforms. 
 
 For the record, I have no problem with Snuff shaking hands with whomever
 he wanted to for however long it took.  The longer he was on my TV screen
 snuffering (tm) like that the more my thighs were shuddering.
 Bob Hunt

    Dan,
    
    Thanks for the belly laugh.  You calling someone elses' opinion jaded
    has to be the classic line of the decade, if not the century.  Too
    funny.
    
    Dan, I think Deano stuck with his seniors way too long, and relied on
    them way too much - especially after it was *painfully* obvious that
    they weren't producing.  It was *obvious* that the team wasn't getting
    into a rythem, and it was *obvious* that the frequent substitutions
    weren't helping.  A good coach adjusts.  Dean stuck to his guns.  Dean
    lost yet again in the big one.  
    
    JD

    
    	Duke by 5 at the half...
    
    B.A.

    Duke wins by 7...

    
    	Good game.
    
    
    	Especially if you are a Duke fan.  Hats off once again to 
    Duke who proved that they are the number one team in the NCAA!
    Kansas made it a good, exciting game, but I don't think there 
    was ever any doubt from the opening tip-off on who would come
    out on top.  Kansas was lacking in the outside shooting game,
    and Duke played them tough.  
    
    
    	Looks like the ACC has another winner in Duke and they have
    plenty of players back next year.  Hurley played great, hardly
    any turnovers and he controlled the tempo.  I also thought Grant
    Hill played well as well as Christian Lattener was red hot from the
    foul line.
    
    	I really like to see a group of kids win who work hard together,
    and really seem to enjoy playing together.  
    
    
    	It was also nice to see coach "K" finally get the big one, and also
    great to see the Tark not in the final game.
    
    
    
    
    
    	Congratulations to Duke for winning and to Kansas for having a
    great tourney and providing a good championship game.
    
    
    Jim

 Good game. Kansas played tough but you could just sense it early that Duke
 wasn't to be denied. While Laettner deserved the MVP for the tourney, I
 think an MVP-1A has to go the Grant Hill, especially last night. On saturday
 not only did he fustrate Augmon, he help Hurley out with the pressure and
 Christy on the boards. Last night again it seemed like every time DUKE got
 tired he got the big play to get their juices flowing. Great performance by
 a freshman. 

 Is it just me or is Christy the most protected player in the game?

 mike
 

    Duke finally won the big one.  I am so happy that nothing is going to ruin
    my day.  What is particularly pleasing is that Coach K has just as many
    NCAA titles as Dean Smith.
    
    John "D Cowboys/Blue Devils" R.

    One of the best moments last night came after the game during the
    celebration and subsequent mugging for the camera.  Brian Davis was
    leading them all in some stupid, planned hoohaa for the camera and
    Kzyxzyxzyxzy(tm) said "Brian, cool it" and did that calm down thing
    with his hands again.  
    
    I was in a similar circumstance during my swimming days and my coach
    stopped me from celebrating.  I really appreciate that now because
    looking back, I bet I really looked foolish in my celebration.  Duke
    will be remembered as a classy champion.
    
    And how about that first ally-oop.  Man, can Hill sky or what?  And
    he's only a baby!
    
> Is it just me or is Christy the most protected player in the game?
    
    Mike, I think it's just you.  Laettner did as much as was done against
    him.
    
    I hope Dean was watching so he can learn how to coach the big one. 
    Kzyxzyxzyxzy(tm)'s subbing for Laettner to coincide with the TV time
    out was perfect.  Billy Packer is a boob.  
    
    On the other side, Roy Williams made that massive substitution a-la
    Deano toward the end so he could talk to his main men...and then left
    them sitting on the bench for two possessions!  They managed to turn
    the ball over and give Duke an even greater lead.  I couldn't
    understand that.
    
    	--dan'l

 On the TV front I was very disappointed with CBS' non-use of the instant
 replay. It was like they decided they wouldn't question any calls made.
 Also good defensive or offensive strategies got overlooked because of it.
 I thought the quick reaction of Dule to 1-3-1 trap when KU first threw it
 at them deserve a replay. Th eonly one I remember is Hill's play...

 The ESPN show was pretty good except for Vitale. I wish Jimmy had slugged
 him. I felt my buddy Billy Raferty got off a great shot at Vitale...
 
 Seems Vitale was waxing on and on about how this coach and that coach asked
 him for advice so when Billy got his shot to speak, He starts off with 

 "well when Jimmy and So-so cam to me for advice on during their championship
 run....the whole place busted up and then he just asked Vitale what he was
 doing there if all these people seek his advice??

 hahahaaa

 mike

    Duke just wins the biggest game in their history, there is hysteria on
    the court, the band is playing, cheerleaders are jumping around, Kansas
    fans are taking a deep breath and hold back the tears, the Duke players
    are running around hugging each other and...
    
    
    
    "Hi, I'm Greg Norman and I wear Reebok Pump Golf shoes."
    
    
    
    CBS sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    And it's time to put that 'One Shining Moment Song' to rest!  I
    remember them playing that after the Indiana win in '87.
    
    	--dan'l

    That "Duke is tired" thing got on my nerves too.  In fact it made me so
    tired, I barely stayed awake!  Packer was a total boob.  He and Vitale
    should get together and do a show.  I think Packer was so pumped that
    he couldn't shut up.  I also agree that the Gulf War link was a little
    weak, but I did enjoy the video they put together with it, to the tune
    of John Cougar Mellencamp's "Small Town".
    
    Hawk - in a few years you'll have to have your daughter teachy mine the
    art of hoop watching.  I certainly could use the partner.
    
    =Bob=

    I was impressed with Brian Davis spending his summers in DC working for
    Senator Terry Sanford (D-NC).  Gee, I wonder what the UNLV players are
    doing this summer?  As one of my friends put it when Duke upset the
    Rebs, "Does this mean they have to go back to jail now?"
    
    And I'm surpised George Bush let Nantz say that about Davis.  Afterall,
    Sanford voted against the war and lord knows we should be glorifying
    all the death and destruction we caused.  
    
    	--dan'l

    Congrats Dukies!
    
    All season somebody has stepped up for the Jayhawks.  Last night
    they kinda just moved the ball around a bit...really weird considering
    how they really took it to Indiana and Arkansas.  They played flat
    in the UNC game too!
    
    Anyway, the Dukies beat the Hawks at every turn...and clearly deserve
    the Championship.
    
    Congrats Coach K and Co.,
    
    Kansas Comet
    
      

 >While Laettner deserved the MVP for the tourney, I
 >think an MVP-1A has to go the Grant Hill, especially last night. On saturday
 >not only did he fustrate Augmon, he help Hurley out with the pressure and
 >Christy on the boards.
    
    Agreed.  Hill was the difference from last year's team.  He has the
    athleticism that the team needs, but now there's a few other players as
    well...the other Hill, and the frosh off the bench, Davis.
    
 >Is it just me or is Christy the most protected player in the game?
    
    No doubt.  Reminds me of watching Larry in that respect.  He's gotta
    hack for a whistle, but goes to the line after a touch or even an "in
    the area".
    
    Dan

    Congrats to Duke.
    
    Mike, Agree on Laettner.  He's got the scream down pat.  Early in the
    first half he got a couple of late whistles his way with the scream
    I've been hacked routine.   Huge disparity in free throws - Duke's way
    of course.  Been that way throughout the tourney.
    
    I still fail to see what is so great about Hurley.
    
    Packer was horrible, as usual.  I agre about the Duke is tired crap. 
    What, Kansas' game ended 4 hours before there's.  Big deal.  Lame,
    Billy, Lame.
    
    McCafferty can shoot, and whine with the best.
    
    Decent game.  Better than lasted year.
    
    JD

I too got really tired of the "Duke is tired" nonsense from the announcer.
What surprised me was the implication I caught that both teams had gone
back to campus between the two games.  That doesn't strike me as a 
particularly brilliant idea, if true.  Does anyone know for sure?

I watched all three games of the Final Four.  Best of the lot was the
Duke - UNLV game.  I actually *watched* (rather than listen for announcer
hysteria as a clue to look up from doing needlepoint) about half of that
game.  Actual watch ratio for the final game was about 5%.  Sez something
about the relative interest level of the two games......

A&W

    Not only is Laettner protected, but you can just see how the media's
    thighs started shuddering when Hurley played a couple of good games in
    a row. "Hurley dominated ... Hurley this .... Hurley that ...."
    
    Hell, lasted year Hurley didn't have Grant Hill to take the pressure
    off of him. That's worth at least 5 points game to Duke right there.
    
    Anyhow, congrats to the Blu Debbils (tm), they played a solid game. I
    think Kansas would have fared better if they could have gotten a
    couple of key shots in close to drop, but it wasn't meant to be for
    them.

 I'm not violently pro- or anti-Christian Laettner but I can recall at
 least two instances in the tournament where Laettner was indeed roughed up
 as opposed to this theory that he gets nice fouls called against his man
 if the guy so much as breathes on him ...
 
 First was during the Connecticut game, of course, where the UConn Huskie,
 Burell, I think, was giving Laettner a couple of deluxe elbow noogies
 while Laettner was underneath him.   Refs never called that one but CBS
 picked it up and showed it over and over again.   Blatant roughstuff.
 
 Second was during the Vegas game when he got loose underneath the side of
 the basket in the first half.  The Vegas guy behind him, Ackles, I think,
 jumped up and gave him a full-windup hard machete-style swipe to the arms
 as Laettner went up.   The ball dropped and Laettner went to the line for
 a 3-point play.  CBS showed that one a few times, too.   Clear foul.
 
 Laettner does go the line a lot but I'd have a hard time believing he's
 some kind of special case.   He gets hacked as much as the next guy.
 
 Bob Hunt

> First was during the Connecticut game, of course, where the UConn Huskie,
> Burell, I think, was giving Laettner a couple of deluxe elbow noogies
> while Laettner was underneath him.   Refs never called that one but CBS
> picked it up and showed it over and over again.   Blatant roughstuff.


Think it was Sellers....

    And don't forget the time in the championship game when Randall all but
    pushed Laettner into the cheerleaders and there was no whistle.
    
    Don't put down Laettner just because you guys are watching the game
    from other than an objective standpoint.  
    
    I'm with Bob Hunt.  Laettner gives and takes what he deserves.
    
    	--dan'l

 Bob and Dan, I'm not denying that Laettner doesn't get hammered and give
 and take, what I'm refering to is offensively more than once I saw him 
 plow into somebody no call, pushing on rebounds no call and maybe a missed
 hack or two. I'd also still like to know who fouled him with 12.7 seconds
 left in the Vegas game? Looked to me like there was one of his own players
 between him and the Vegas guy...

 mike 

    Bob and Dan'l
    
    Duke has a history of not getting called for fouls.  A bump by Hurley
    or Laetner is good defense, a bump by the opponent is a foul.  Duke
    went to the line 27 times, kansas 8. Laetner went 12 times.  1 and half
    more foul shots than the *entire* Kansas basketball team.  
    
    I think Laetner is a hell of a player - who excels in big games.  I
    also think Duke is one of those teams that gets the benefit of the
    calls.  Which is a tribute to Coach K - who doesn't do a lot of offical
    baiting.  
    
    JD

    
    re: Tired
    
    	18-21 year old "kids" do not get "tired" with ONLY 1 1/2 nights 
    sleep..  Now, 35 year old refs (like me) that work 200 games are 
    tired.  I thought it was kinda funny how these young kids can become
    so tired.  Geez, they're there for the National Championship which you
    would think would not make anyone tired, but somehow, they "were
    tired".  Seems that they should get into better shape.  
    
    	How about the women's side of the NCAA's?  They had to play the
    semi's on Saturday and then play the finals on Sunday, but I never
    heard the announcers comment on how tired they were.  
    
    re: MVP
    
    	Laettner had a good 2 days, but in the final, most of his points
    came from the foul line.  At one point, he had 12 points and only one
    field goal.  I wouldn't really say that was MVP material.
    
    	To be honest, Hurley was the MVP to me.  Of course I'm partial to
    point guards, but after all the stuff I heard in hear about how he
    sucks wind, I thought he played incredibly well at the point.  His
    defense wasn't the greatest in the UNLV game, but he made some key
    hoops plus some key passes down the stretch not to mention that he 
    didn't come out of either game.
    
    	I think he has improved greatly over last year and even from 
    earlier this year.  Without him at the point, I doubt Duke would of
    been within 10 of UNLV let alone winning the whole tourney.
    
    
    							bill..g.
    

>At one point, he had 12 points and only one
>    field goal.  I wouldn't really say that was MVP material.
    
    Hitting all those free throws, 12 in a row at one point I think, in the
    championship game is enough for me.  But he was MVP of the FF, not the
    championship game.  Laettner's performance against the gang from the
    Las Vegas Correctional Institute's work release program was also
    factored in.
    
    And if not, who?
    
    	--dan'l
    

Anybody watch the Women's Final Four?
Some pretty good hoops.

I was rooting for UConn, because I thought that Debbie Baer was a Stone
Fox! (It's as good a reason as any).

I was originally thinking that the 6'5" twins for the Hoos might be
exciting - Heather and Heidi Burge. However they need some serious
Cosmetic Intervention. (They still should have beaten Tennessee).


Mike JN

 Yeah, I suffered through the Hoos' loss to Tennessee on Sunday.   They had
 a great year but it was an underachievement since they had been top-ranked
 almost all year long.
 
 I attribute the overall experience of Pat Summit and her Tennessee program
 for the win.  I don't think the Lady Vols were better than the Hoo-ettes
 but the program had been to numerous Final Fours and had won two titles
 before.   When it came down to crunch time, they knew how to win it.  It
 was all new to the Hoos.
 
 I hope the Lady Hoos learn from it and come back even stronger nexted
 year.  They have everyone back but Cardoza.   The Burge twins need to hit
 the weights over the summer.  They have the height but not the strength. 
 I got tired of seeing the stronger Lady Vols slapping the ball outta their
 hands.  But they're young still.
 
 Shoulda had it this year.
 
 Bob Hunt

    Agreed on the Doublemint Twins.  Which one was Baer?
    
    Most of them definitely looked like they were female brutes.  Not
    sure I'd want to meet Dawn Staley in a back alley.  Kelly Casteel
    looked like she was from the back hills somewhere.  Good games...
    I guess I rooted for UVa since they hadn't won it before.  My
    folks got a kick out their coach dressed up in a dress looking
    lady-like scream insults at the refs, then appearing to put on
    lipstick as they went to a timeout...

How come the wimmin look so awful shooting the ball?

To me One example of poetry in motion is watching a pure shooter like 
Pistol Pete or Glenn Rice (the year mich won the title) take the ball off of a
screen and shoot a perfect jumper from 3 pt land and hit nothing but net.....

Whenever I watch the women play hoops they manage to make every jump shot look
ugly. It is because they don't get the full extension of the men ? is it some
other reason ? is it the camera angles tv uses ?

Inquiring minds dean to wonk,


  Metz

>To me One example of poetry in motion is watching a pure shooter like 
>Pistol Pete or Glenn Rice (the year mich won the title) take the ball off of a
>screen and shoot a perfect jumper from 3 pt land and hit nothing but net.....
    
    Anderson Hunt has the prettiest form on the J of anyone I saw in the
    tourney this year.  You have to love those rainbows that hit the bottom
    of the net.  Reminds me of ... me!
    
    Dan

 Agreed, my bro' Anderson does indeed have a nice sweet shot.  Billy
 McCaffrey and Mark Macon have nice shots as well.
 
 I didn't necessarily think that the women's shots looked bad.  They
 certainly swished just like men's shots.  I saw a couple of the players,
 Tammi Reiss in particular, who looked like they had to get kinda
 "underneath" the ball to sorta "launch" it a bit but they still had good
 spin on the ball as it went through the air and snipped the net.
 
 The big difference that I saw between the men and women was the turnovers. 
 A lot more dribbling and passing errors among the women.   And, of course,
 many more blocked shots in the men's game.
 
 Bob Hunt

>I was rooting for UConn, because I thought that Debbie Baer was a Stone
>Fox! (It's as good a reason as any).

The most interesting thing about watching the Huskies was that I
saw them quite a few times after rugby practice.  We've got quite
a few guys who are alumni (a big UCONN rugby influence on the Wanderers).

Anyway, this one guy Matt knows most of these girls.  It was great
watching them, and then getting the low-down on them at the same time.


I'm pleased with the Huskie women, because of their accomplishments and
it was nice that they weren't overshadowed by the men.

The night after Duke won, our local sports was showing the reaction
in Duke's home arena.  The sportscaster said "That's the way it'll be
at UCONN when the men finally win one....unless the women beat them
to it".

Not a bad year, all in all for UCONN.  We've got a way to go, and
some work to do, but it'll happen.....

'Saw

    Women will execute and play the team game more than men, IMO. I find it
    a more enjoyable game to watch sometimes - cleaner and less cluttered.
    
    Remember of course, I was at Rice whenthe program was near bottom, and
    the women were pretty good. Not to mention I got to watch Texas and
    Arkansas' women's teams roll into town (and over Rice :-) every year
    ...
    
    Doc

�    Anderson Hunt has the prettiest form on the J of anyone I saw in the
�    tourney this year.  You have to love those rainbows that hit the bottom
�    of the net.  Reminds me of ... me!
    
�    Dan

	The only time you hit the bottom of the net is when your airball 
grazes it on the way down!

				/Don

    Women's Final Four:
    
    It was between watching this and clipping my toenails.  I went for the
    toe nails - more action, more exciting.  
    
    Women's basketball is like watching paint dry.
    
    JD

    
    	I beg to differ JD.  I was up late lasted year watching
    	ESPN when they were showing a womens game between Stanford
    	and Washington.  That was the best *basketball* game I
    	saw all year.  Of course, Stanford had Jennifer Azi (sp?)
    	who was the MVP of the galaxy.  She had a very pretty J and
    	could dribble like Marcus Haynes used to for the Globetrotters.
    
    Claybroon

    I, for one, wouldn't mind being the filling in a Burge sandwich.
    
    NAZZ

    
    
    	John Wooden made a comment last weekend that I thought was really
    true and I believe it can be attributed to the women's game.
    
    	He basically said that the teams of today have better individual
    talent, but lack good team play.  In his opinion, when the individual
    talent increases, it decreases team play (I guess all we need to do is
    look at the NBA as an example).  This is due to the fact that as 
    individuals get better, the coach can let this person do more, hence
    the overall teamplay decreases.
    
    	Now, I think this very evident in the women's game.  There are few
    players that possess great individual talent as in the men's game. 
    Sure there are some women who are head and shoulders above the rest,
    but for the most part, the majority of the women are all basically the
    same in individual talent.  I believe that because the women are so
    close in talent, that this in turn promotes more team play.  Hey just
    my opinion but I think the women play a better team game than the men.
    That's not saying that it is better basketball (eye of the beholder)
    it just means that they play a better team game IMO.
    
    
    								bill..g.
    

    Doc (or anyone), how far did the Lady Longhorns go in the tournament
    this year?  They always buzzsaw through the SEC and the regular season,
    but stumble in the tournament.

    Lady Longhorns lost in either the first or second round to Lamar.
    
    John

    
    >     I, for one, wouldn't mind being the filling in a Burge sandwich.
    
    Nah, you ain't worthy.
    
    BTW, does the term "Longhorn" refer to both female and male of the
    species?  Like, do female longhorns have, in fact, long horns?  Are
    there any college teams with male names, like the Bucks f'rinstance,
    that have the Does as their wimmens team?  What does Drake U. call its
    team, the Drakes and the [name for a female duck]?
    
    Dickstah, asking with wide-eyed wonderment
    

Dickstah...

It defies the laws of Nature.

They always append "Lady" to the name of the team.  For example,
the Lady Huskies.  You couldn't call them the UCONN Bitches.  That
wouldn't be nice.

So, they just make it easy and append lady to the front of the men's
name....

hth,
'Saw    

    
    Dickstah,
    
    	I'm surprised you don't know the name for a *female duck*!
    	I thought you wuz a hunter-type-o-individual?  The correct
    	term is hen.  We also refer to them as Suzy's - as in "Don't
    	shoot any Suzy's".  Sorry about the punctuation there Ninja.
    	I don't know how to pluralize Suzy!
    
    Claybron

    Claybroon, in the interest of equal rights and all that, I'm not averse
    to blastin' hens as well as drakes.  We gotsta maintain our affirmative
    action quotas, ya know.
    
    Mark.

    
    Shoot 'em first, sort 'em out later.
    

 I always get a chuckle when they talk about the "Lady Dawgs" from Georgia.
 
 Bob Hunt

    When pluralizing a word that ends in"Y", change the y to ie and then
    add s.  The plural of Suzy is Suzies.  Suzy's indicates that something
    belongs to Suzy.  Suzies' means that something belongs to more than one
    Suzy.
    
    the 'Police

    ...except when there is a vowel before the 'Y' and then you just add
    the 'S'.
    
    Shlop shlip shits.
    
    	--dan'l

    re .268
    
    Well said Goose ... you did a better job of it than I did. JD, I
    strongly advise you to watch a couple of decent women's teams in
    person, and you may change your mind. I had simular opinions, then I
    decided (God knows why) to watch the Lady Owls play UH I believe. 
    
    It didn't take long for me to become a women's basketball fan after
    that. You see better ball-handling and passing among women than you may
    ever see among some men's teams. The biggest problem I see right now,
    is the still large (but not as huge as 10 years ago) gap between the
    good and bad programs. A good team (UT, Lousiana Tech, Tenn.) is really
    good, while the bad ones really sip ....
    
    Doc

    Doc,
    
    I've gone to women's games, I've watched them on TV.  I like fast paced
    hoops.  Women's hoops is anything but fast paced.  
    
    JD

    
    	Wail, outchere they don't want us shooting Mallard hens.  If'n
    	you do, you're done hunting for the day (100 pt limit; mallard
    	hen = 100 pts).
    
    	Ninja, you are indeed an apostrophreak!  Thanks for the help.
    
    	Sorry for cluttering up this topic.........
    
    	Claybroon

    Dan'l, I'd forgotten about the exception to the rule you mentioned. 
    The plural of way is ways not waies.  
    
    Claywad, I'm not an apostrophreak.  I had these rules drummed into me
    through 12 years of English Grammar and I've remembered them.
    
    Apostrophes are never used on verbs that end in "S".  The only place
    they're borderline acceptable on plurals is when an abbreviation or
    number is being pluralized.  They're used in contractions and to
    indicate possession.
    
    John

>    Dan'l, I'd forgotten about the exception to the rule you mentioned. 
>    The plural of way is ways not waies.  

I'd be willing to bet though that this is a fairly recent rule, because
waies looks a bit like Old English, or maybe Middle English.

One of the most interesting things I've seen is the PBS series on 
the History of the English Language.  English is one of the most
massive languages on Earth.  The wealth of expression possible in
English in not equaled in many, many others.

If you ever get a chance to see this series, check it out.  If you've
ever wondered why people in the South talk like they do, or folks
from New England talk like Pahk ya cah in Hahvahd yahd, you'll find out.


>    Claywad, I'm not an apostrophreak.  I had these rules drummed into me
>    through 12 years of English Grammar and I've remembered them.

A style guide can be purchased in any bookstore, with all of these
rules.  Mine is second hand, called "The Little, Brown Handbook".
It's invaluable when I write the odd short story or humoristic piece....

If you've ever had to submit a piece of writing in a professional
arena (i.e. for me things like specs, proposals etc) they are judged,
even subconsciously, by the folks to whom you submit them.  Poor spelling
and grammar can have an adverse effect, because that first impression
can make all the difference....

'Saw

   Re: Womens Hoop's (heh heh... couldnt resis't)

   A lot depends on the quality of the teams. I saw the Lady Buffs (The CU
   Buffalo counterparts) earlier this year, and it was painful. Poor
   passing, poor shooting, everything about the game was awful. Ordinarily
   I'm honest enough to admit that a woman College athlete, or a woman
   professional athlete, could probably clean my clock. Golf, tennis,
   whatever.... But most women hoopsters, I'd be willing to go one on one
   ( in BASKETBALL ) and by the time we were through they would envy the
   dead!

   However, the Women's NCAA Final Four showed some good hoops. Fun to
   watch. Easily as good, in terms of enjoyment, as many of the men's
   teams I've seen this year.

   Mike JN