Conference 7.286::sports_91

    I also publically will sample the Kenny Smith Crow A La Mode .... when
    the Rockets stole him from the Hawks, I feared that we'd have another
    Sleepy Floyd clone on our hands. 
    
    Instead the Rockets have gotten their best point guard since John Lucas
    was drug-free.
    
    General Question : What effect will the return of Akeem have on the
    Rockets ? Will they let down ? Will Akeem adversly affect team
    chemistry ?

    	Come on Doc, what you really mean to say is that after years
    the Rockets finally have a record that I can be proud of so I'm
    off the Sixer bandwagon and am firing up my Rockets.
    
    				/Don

If the season ended today, the Rockets would face the Lakers in
the first round of the playoffs.  As a Lakers fan, I don't
relish the thought of the Lakers trying to outmuscle the Rockets.
I hope that Houston will move up a notch so the Lakers can 
avoid them.

As far as Akeem returning to the team, I think he will disrupt
the good chemistry on the club.  Houston would be wise, at the
end of the season, to trade Akeem to the Lakers for Vlade Divac.
Surrounded by strong leaders like Magic and Worthy, Akeem would
stay in line.  In Houston, there's nobody with enough stature
to slap Akeem around when he starts acting up.  ;)

Laker_Ken

    I agree that Houston should seriously look into trading Akeem prior
    to next season.
    
    What's his contract status ?
    
    
    Greg

    Scott Skiles is a better point guard the Kenny Smith, who's stats
    are inflated by Akeem the Dream being in the line-up.
    
    Kenny is a decent shooting guard but no where near being a great
    point guard.  Over the last 25 games, he's averaging a mere 6 assists
    a game and turning the ball over approximately 3.5 times per game for
    an embarrassing assists to turnover ratio of 1.7 to 1.
    
    Plus he's one of the worst defensive guards in the league.  Opposing
    point guards routinely light him up for season high games.
    
    Cap

    when is Akeem scheduled to return?

    re .3
    
    Laker_Ken, you might have been injest talking about Akeem (and it was
    funny !), but there is a kernal of truth there. FWIW, I almost wish Wes
    Unseld was coach of the Rockets, so that he could keep Akeem's butt in
    line. 
    
    If the Rockets return to their jam-the-ball-into-Akeem-and-hope-that
    one-of-the-guards-is-hot style, look for an early exit from the
    playoffs.
    
    Here's hoping that Akeem learned a few lessons from bench ....

    re .5
    
    Yawn .... Cap, Akeem hasn't been inflating anyone's stats in the last
    25 games,so why don't you give Smith his due.
    
    Or is it a very subtle jab at ACC Chris, since Kenny is a Tar Heel ?
    
    And might this have something to do with the fack that Skiles was one
    of your FBA gods on your also-ran team ?
    
    Heh heh heh ....
    
    Doc

    Nah, it's a jab at you.  You've always been a fan of the overrated or
    overhyped....(Sort of the same way you overhype yourself in softball:-) )
                                                                
    Kenny Smith is just a perfect example.  There are at least 23 NBA point 
    guards that are better at the trade then he is...
    
    The facks are Kenny Smith has a great knack for turning the ball over,
    plays terrible defense and has had 2 NBA coaches and several scouts who 
    say he is one of the worst decision makers at the point position.
    
    He's a good shooting guard and a good offensive threat but he is a
    below average point guard.
    
    And you right Akeem inflates his stats, which just lends more credence
    to my position.
    
    Smith deserves his due as a decent offensive player but certainly not
    as a NBA 'star' point guard.
    
    Cap
    
    
    

Akeem has been cleared to play tonight against the Clippers, Paul.

As for Sleepy, he turned in one of the best lines of the year yesterday:

                                               REBOUNDS
PLAYER           POS  MIN  FGM-FGA  FTM-FTA  OFF-DEF-TOT  AST  PF  ST  TO  PTS
======           ===  ===  =======  =======  ===========  ===  ==  ==  ==  ===
FLOYD                  24   16-25     7-7      1   1   2    3   2   2   1   40

40 points in 24 minutes!  Now that's heating it up.

And for Larry Smith, I think with Olajuwon back he'll fade into the woodwork
again, unfortuately.  But he's been sensational in Olajuwon's absence,
averaging upwards of 15 rebounds a game.

j.

    This is the first I've heard of Akeem being bad for the Rockets.  I've
    never heard about any attitude problems from him in the past.  Is this
    the same kind of "problem" as Jordan checking his stats during the
    game, or the Ewing "problem" in NY?

    Mac, Akeem has had confrontations with his teammates in the past. He
    punched out Robert Reid back in 88, and after the season suggested that
    the Rockets needed to trade off just about the entire team, or else
    they would never win a title.
    
    Besides his temper (under better control now), he has the tendency to
    take too much on himself, and he will lose faith in his teammates too
    quickly. If he gets doubled-teamed, and kicks the ball out to an open
    man, that man had better hit he jumper. Because if he misses a couple
    of shots, Akeem will not kick it out the rest of the game. He is the
    original black hole on offense .... :-)
    
    Suffice to say that Akeem, to reuse a tired cliche', does not make his
    teammates better .... I admire his talent, and I think that he is
    still the best center is basketball, but Robinson and Ewing will blow
    by him in 92 if Akeem doesn't improve his mental and spirtual approach
    to the game. I get the distinct impression that players will rally
    around a Larry Smith, than by Akeem, for a variaty of reasons.
    
    Re Cap,
    
    I never said Smith was one of the best in the league. I said that he is
    the best point man the Rockets have had since John Lucas was on top of
    his game.
    
    WHich meant that The Scott Skiles Jihad had to be initiated .....
    
    Ah Ha ! I get it ! This is your reaction to the trouncing you're taking
    in FBA by the resurgent Digital Undergroud right ????
    
    Don't let your envy get best of you Cap ole buddy.
    
    BTW, when's the last time Scott has had back to back good games against
    quality teams ?             

    re -1
    
    Golden State and Phoenix(last two games).....
    
    Skiles has consistently put up 18+ pts a game and 8+ assist...
    He's played very well this year.....

    RE: .13
    
    In Akeem's first game back the Rockets lost to the lowly Clippers for
    the seventh straight time in LA.  That about tells me all I need to
    know about this supposed Western Conference "darkhorse."
    
    Doug

    Kenny Smith pours in 34 last night as the Rockets defeat the Lakers @
    LA.  
    
    Bad Assist/TO ratio confirms he's one of leagues worst PG's though ...
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    re .15
    
    Hi there Doug. Haven't seen you in SPORTS before, but you have managed
    to set a new record ....
    
    
    Quickest trip to the crow cafe !
    
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAA !!!!!!!!
    
    re .16
    
    Chris, why don't assume the position and get it over with ?
    
    First Deno gets his clocked cleaned (as usual), and then Kenny Smith
    helps to beat LA, and you continue to spout nonsense.
    
    BTW, The National had a much different account of SMith and the
    Rocket's defense than you - but what's new about that right ?

    re: .-1
    
    Please report on what The National has to say on the Rockets and
    Kenny's "D" ASAP.
    
    tanks,
    
    - ACC Chris

    Here is a list of the starting point guards in the NBA.  How many
    would you take ahead of Kenny Smith?
    
    Boston - Brian Shaw
    Philadelphia -* Ricky Green
    New York - Mo Cheeks
    Washington - Darrell Walker
    Miami - Sherman Douglas
    New Jersey - Mookie Blaylock
    
    Chicago - John Paxson
    Detroit - Isiah Thomas
    Milwaukee - Jay Humphries
    Atlanta - Spud Webb
    Indiana - Vern Fleming (or Michael Williams)
    Cleveland - * Darnell Valentine
    Charlotte - Kendall Gill
    
    Utah - John Stockton
    San Antonio - Rod Strickland
    Dallas - Derek Harper
    Orlando - Scott Skiles
    Minnesota - Pooh Richardson
    Denver - Michael Adams
    
    Portland - Terry Porter
    LA Lakers - Magic Johnson
    Phoenix - Kevin Johnson
    Golden State - Tim Hardaway
    Seattle - Gary Payton
    LA Clippers - Gary Grant
    Sacramento - Rory Sparrow
    
    * Starting point guards lost for season (and career in doubt) due to
      injury.
    
    As for me, there are about 15 point guards I'd take ahead of Kenny
    Smith.  Which doesn't mean he's not doing a terific job for Houston 
    this year.
    
    For the record, I'd take the following ahead of Smith:  
    
    	Shaw
    	Walker
    	Douglas
    	Thomas
    	Humphries
    	Webb
    	Fleming
    	Gill
    	Stockton
    	Strickland
    	Harper
    	Skiles
    	Richardson
    	Adams
    	Porter
    	Magic
    	KJ
    	Hardaway
    
    NAZZ
    	

    This should put this everlasting debate into perspective.  Here are the
    WEIGHTED stats of all the point guards that Nazz listed.  Check the
    column with the * for how they were sorted.  As for the definition of
    weighted, this was computed using the stats for each player in the
    entire NBA.  What is done is you total REB, AST, DEF, PTS for each
    player to come up with a multiplier for figuring the weighted values of
    REB, AST, and DEF (sum of STL & BLK).  The *Xtpg (Extended Total
    Points per Game) is their total weighted value per game.  Bottomline is
    Kenny Smith ranks 17th out of the 28 starting point guards.  What is
    also interesting is that Nazz picked 5 guards with lower weighted
    values than Smith ;-)
    
 Player              G    REB   AST   STL   BLK   DEF   PTS   Ttl   Ppg    Rpg   Apg   DEC *Xtpg  Xrpg   Xapg   Xdpg
  John   Stockton     53   145   755   154     8   162   899  1961  17.0   2.7  14.2  33.9 177.8  632.2 5711.1 2182.5
 Magic    Johnson     52   370   695    58    11    69  1016  2150  19.5   7.1  13.4  40.0 169.5 1613.1 5257.2  929.6
Michael    Adams      38   138   436    81     2    83   966  1623  25.4   3.6  11.5  40.5 157.5  601.7 3298.0 1118.2
  Tim    Hardaway     53   220   511   136     7   143  1240  2114  23.4   4.2   9.6  37.2 150.8  959.2 3865.4 1926.5
 Kevin    Johnson     53   199   522   127     7   134  1163  2018  21.9   3.8   9.8  35.5 146.9  867.6 3948.6 1805.3
  Pooh  Richardson    53   196   520   100     9   109   968  1793  18.3   3.7   9.8  31.8 136.3  854.5 3933.5 1468.5
  Rod   Strickland    39   168   336    88     6    94   576  1174  14.8   4.3   8.6  27.7 131.2  732.5 2541.6 1266.4
 Isiah    Thomas      39   138   357    63    10    73   624  1192  16.0   3.5   9.2  28.7 125.9  601.7 2700.5  983.5
 Terry    Porter      54   192   449   103     6   109   931  1681  17.2   3.6   8.3  29.1 122.8  837.1 3396.4 1468.5
Darrell   Walker      44   361   311    57    18    75   443  1190  10.1   8.2   7.1  25.3 122.3 1573.9 2352.5 1010.4
 Derek    Harper      50   158   388   100     8   108  1000  1654  20.0   3.2   7.8  30.9 121.6  688.9 2935.0 1455.0
 Brian     Shaw       54   274   405    76    24   100   817  1596  15.1   5.1   7.5  27.7 118.9 1194.6 3063.6 1347.2
  Gary     Grant      53   162   498    83    11    94   462  1216   8.7   3.1   9.4  21.2 117.0  706.3 3767.0 1266.4
 Mookie  Blaylock     50   175   316   117    27   144   685  1320  13.7   3.5   6.3  23.5 115.6  763.0 2390.3 1940.0
Sherman   Douglas     50   131   410    80     2    82   868  1491  17.4   2.6   8.2  28.2 112.9  571.1 3101.4 1104.7
  Gary    Payton      53   153   382   118    10   128   410  1073   7.7   2.9   7.2  17.8 107.4  667.1 2889.6 1724.4
 Kenny     Smith      53   113   377    79     9    88   901  1479  17.0   2.1   7.1  26.2 102.5  492.7 2851.8 1185.5
 Scott    Skiles      50   154   382    50     2    52   748  1336  15.0   3.1   7.6  25.7 100.2  671.4 2889.6  700.5
  Jay    Humphries    53   156   333    83     5    88   823  1400  15.5   2.9   6.3  24.8  98.3  680.1 2518.9 1185.5
  Vern    Fleming     41   119   250    54     9    63   512   944  12.5   2.9   6.1  21.5  92.0  518.8 1891.1  848.7
Darnell  Valentine    38   105   215    60     7    67   382   769  10.1   2.8   5.7  18.5  88.7  457.8 1626.3  902.6
  Spud     Webb       47    99   264    71     5    76   547   986  11.6   2.1   5.6  19.4  85.1  431.6 1997.0 1023.9
Michael  Williams     49   116   227    94     8   102   513   958  10.5   2.4   4.6  17.5  83.9  505.7 1717.1 1374.2
Maurice   Cheeks      49   100   260    75     5    80   396   836   8.1   2.0   5.3  15.4  79.1  436.0 1966.7 1077.8
  Rory    Sparrow     50   106   233    52    11    63   491   893   9.8   2.1   4.7  16.6  71.3  462.1 1762.5  848.7
Kendall    Gill       53   160   190    61    20    81   543   974  10.2   3.0   3.6  16.8  71.1  697.6 1437.2 1091.2
 Ricky     Green      51    85   264    39     3    42   534   925  10.5   1.7   5.2  17.3  68.0  370.6 1997.0  565.8
  John    Paxson      53    64   202    32     0    32   446   744   8.4   1.2   3.8  13.4  50.6  279.0 1528.0  431.1

    17th outa 28 is about what I'd have expected, although I think Kenny
    might deserve extra credit for having such a positive impact on
    the Rockets.
    
    Of course, some people will either have to eat their words or disagree
    with you Mike:
    
    from 112.5
    
    > Scott Skiles is a better point guard the Kenny Smith
    
    
    from 112.9
    
    > Kenny Smith is just a perfect example.  There are at least 23 NBA point 
    > guards that are better at the trade then he is...
    
    
    Haw haw haw!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Sigh ... it's amazing how orgasmic people get in a debate - especially
    when they had to invent an issue to argue over.
    
    Plain and simple, I said that Kenny Smith is doing a fine job for the
    Rockets. Nobody can realy argue that (but Cap is trying hard).
    
    Kenny Smith is giving the Rockets their best point guard play since
    John Lucas in 1985 (or the 77-80 version).
    
    Any knowledable fan can't dispute that fact either.
    
    The Rockets are a better team since acquiring Smith.
    
    Only the ignorant would argue that.
    
    I did not say that Smith was the 2nd Coming of Magic, KJ, or anyone
    else. And in fact Smith needs to improve in several areas. But this is
    the first time since his rookie year that he has had a chance to
    develop his game in a stable situation (pervious stops : Sac. and
    Atlanta), so I expect his game to improve.
    
    Now the rest of you can go back to arguing a non-exsistent contention.
    
    C-ya !
    
    Doc

    No here are the facts
    
    Kenny Smith should actually be ranked about 22nd out of 26 full-time
    point guards.
    
    Kenny Smith ranked 17th out of 28 on the list that Mike Heiser put in
    but there are a few problems with that list.
    
    1.  Kenny Smith has been a starter all season long.
    2.  Michael Williams and Scott Skiles both started the season as
    	reserves which affects there stats.  Since becoming starters,
    	their stats are better than Smiths.(Skiles for example has 
    	probably averaged 20 pts and 9 assists since becoming a starter).
    3.  Jay Humpheries would probably be picked as a point guard over 
    	Kenny Smith by most every NBA expert for his intangibles(Defense,
    	Court awareness and intelligence)
    4.  Kendall Gill, Spud Webb, Rory Sparrow, Mo Cheeks have all spent 
    	considerable time as back-ups or role players thus affecting their 
    	stats.  Gill played most of his time at shooting guard.
    5.  Johnny Dawkins and Mark Price were not included and they are both
    	better than Smith.
    
    So taking away Gill, Webb, Cheeks and Sparrow, moving Skiles, Williams and
    Humpheries up and adding Price and Dawkins.  Kenny Smith would rank
    22 out of 26 point guards.
    
    Just ahead of star players, Vern Fleming, Darnell Valentine, Ricky
    Green and John Paxson.
    
    Very Impressive.....
    
    Cap
    
    P.S.  ACChris, I had the last laugh on this one.....
                            
    

    re .25
    
    Cap ... what is the Rocket's record vs. that of the Skiles-led Magic ?
    
    I don't mind a good debate, but I don't remember anyone coming in here
    and calling Kenny Smith a deity - not even ACC Chris.
    
    Apparantly, you never read my last note.
    
    Why spoil your rathole with facts, eh ?

     
    Doc,
    
    I disagree with your assumption about the best point guard play since
    John Lucas in 85'.
    
    Sleepy Floyd's season in 1988-89 when the Rockets were 45-37 was better
    than Smith's performance presently this year.
    
    He averaged about 15 points a game, dished out 8.7 assists, 3.8 boards
    and played solid D.  Statistically a better season and outside of
    Thorpe and Olajuwon the Rockets had nobody on that team.  Still their
    winning % under Floyd is close to what it is now.
    
    Don't try and accuse me of being an unknowledgable basketball fan. 
    That's akin to saying you're a great softball and/or basketball player
    (which you do say and we both know you're not). :-)
    
    Cap
       

    
    Here are my opinions on the matter.
    
    1.  Kenny Smith has not given the Rocket's the best point guard play
    	since Lucas in 85'.  Sleepy Floyd had a better year in 88-89.
    2.  Kenny Smith has played better than the Rocket's point guards
    	of last year.
    3.  Kenny Smith is one of the poorest point guards in the league.
    4.  Kenny Smith was badly schooled in fundamentals coming out of
    	college and was a wasted draft pick at #6.
    5.  Kenny Smith is a very good offensive player.
    6.  Kenny Smith is a very poor defensive player and commits a large
    	number of mistakes at the point guard position.
    7.  Kenny Smith would be fairly successful at the shooting guard position.
    
    Cap

    The cheep shot at the end does nothing to prove your point Cap. 
    
    The proof is in the pudding. Smith is the starting point guard, Floyd
    is coming off the bench. If you swallowed your ego (Lord knows the
    butt-whipping I'm administering to you in FBA is bad enough :-), then
    you'd know the difference in their play.
    
    You see Cap, that is the problem with playing too much rotissere
    ball. You look at the stats, and stats alone.
    
    Stick to trying to catch me in the FBA kid, Smith is starting at point
    guard for a reason - and it isn't because Dean Smif' has Don Chaney
    over a barrel.....

    re .29
    
    Hawk, it's more than a job, Celtic-bashing is a public service !!!!

    
    Doc,
    
    The thing is that I offered intangibles to prove my point about Smith's
    point guard play this year(defense, vpoor decision-making, no passing
    creativity, etc.).  Someone offered up stats, which made ACChris
    orgasmic and after I shot the stats full of holes to further prove my
    point, you say I didn't look at the intangibles.
    
    Floyd of two years ago(31) and Floyd of now(33) are two different
    players.  He just can't play all-out night after night and is on
    the downside of his career.  You should be smart enough to figure that
    one out.  Age and athleticism is the big reason Smith is starting over
    Floyd.
    
    The comments at the end were a joke in response to your rotis comments.
    If you can't take the ribbing than lay off dishing it out.  You do 
    proclaim to be better than you actually are and you know it.  In fact
    most people that have seen you play will agree.  I'm not that great of
    a softball player but I'm MUCH better than you are.
    
    Cap who's finished well ahead of Doc in rotis more times than not.

    Here are the numbers for Dawkins and Price.  As one would expect, Price
    has better numbers (weighted average per game).  Dawkins has a lower
    average, but only played 4 games.
    
 Johnny   Dawkins      4    16    28     3     0     3    63   110  15.8   4.0   7.0  26.8  96.2   69.8  211.8   40.4
  Mark     Price      16    45   166    42     2    44   271   526  16.9   2.8  10.4  30.1 144.7  196.2 1255.7  592.8

    Somebody want to decipher Mike's notes for us non-technoweenies without
    DECWindows  or whatever he's using that makes everything go off the
    screen.
    
    Maybe Doc should get one of those terminals so all of his Anti-Celtic
    replies will show up as only 1 incomplete line ;^)

    Mac, you can always print it out in 132 columns ;-)
    
    Mike

    And I could always send my anti-Celtic gospel in 132 char/line.
    
    But I want The Truth to stand free and clear ....

    Cap, you started off the Smith-bashing. I think having closer exposure
    to the Rockets than you, I'm just *might* have a little more insight
    than you into the team. 
    
    Floyd had the numbers, but never got comfortable in Houston. First Bill
    Fitch started screwing up his mind, then Akeem was publically critical
    of not getting the ball often enough from Floyd ... let's just say that
    he wasn't getting a lot of support where he needed it.
    
    Anyhow, it became obvious that Floyd was a better shooting guard  than
    point man - much better.
    
    Enter Kenny Smith. And FWIW, I have said in this notesfile that I
    thought Smith was a Floyd clone. I was wrong. Kenny has the *potential*
    to be a really good pg. And this year, he has definitely begun to
    realize that potentail.
    
    End of story.
    
    You've this bad habit of wanting to get personal whenever you get
    backed into a corner. All I have to say is this :
     
    Nobody talked more trash in DNR than you in 1990. You didn't win the
    league. (And you won't this year offering Schilling for Bip Roberts.)
    
    Oh yeah, with any luck - I'll see you in Marlboro this year.....
    
    Now continue the rathole by yourself .... 

re .20
    
>    For the record, I'd take the following ahead of Smith:  
    
>    	Shaw
>    	Walker
>    	Douglas
>    	Thomas
>    	Humphries
>    	Webb
>    	Fleming
>    	Gill
>    	Stockton
>    	Strickland
>    	Harper
>    	Skiles
>    	Richardson
>    	Adams
>    	Porter
>    	Magic
>    	KJ
>    	Hardaway
    
 
    Nazz, I agree with you on some of these, but not others. Spud has only
    done it for one season as a starter (this one), and he can be exploited
    on D. I'll talk to you in a year about him. 
    
    Vern Fleming ? Come on Nazz, he can't even get his job back from
    Williams.
    
    Kendell Gill is going to be a good player. Skiles has had one good
    half-season on a expansion club, I'd hesitate to add him for now.
    
    Walker is a good all-around player, but he needs a good shooting guard to 
    cover for his weak shot.
    
    Humprhries has an experience edge over Smith, and I think there isn't
    that big a gap between the two players.
    
    Of course there is a man that you have listed that brings tears to
    Rockets' fan's eyes : Terry Porter. I believe that the Rockets' passed
    up drafting Porter to take Steve Harris .... ugh.

    Now if only Doc could supply similar concrete stats to back up his
    Celtic bashing! ;-)
    
    Mike

    >You've this bad habit of wanting to get personal whenever you get
    >backed into a corner. All I have to say is this :

Completely and utterly false, you've been trying to get my goat due to your
lead in a rotis league.  You are the ultimate trash talker and I was just giving
you shit in return.  There was no malice in any of my statements.  Just 100% 
truth.  I've played softball with you, listened to you talk a great game and
then seen it fall apart on the field.

    >Cap, you started off the Smith-bashing. I think having closer exposure
    >to the Rockets than you, I'm just *might* have a little more insight
    >than you into the team. 

    First off, all I did was counter your contention that Smith has given
    the Rocket's the best point guard play since 85.  He has not...
    
I guarantee I've seen Smith play as many games with the Rockets this year
as you have.  Just because, they are your supposed favorite team(along with
many others) doesn't make you an expert.
    
    >Anyhow, it became obvious that Floyd was a better shooting guard  than
    >point man - much better.

Agreed, but he was having a better year at point guard than Smith is this
year...
    
    >Enter Kenny Smith. And FWIW, I have said in this notesfile that I
    >thought Smith was a Floyd clone. I was wrong. Kenny has the *potential*
    >to be a really good pg. And this year, he has definitely begun to
    >realize that potentail.
    
Kenny's over the potential B.S.  He's been in the league for quite some time
now and isn't even near the level that people had expected from him.  He's been
a complete failure,

    >Nobody talked more trash in DNR than you in 1990. You didn't win the
    >league. (And you won't this year offering Schilling for Bip Roberts.)

Nobody talked more trash than you did in 1989, it's the only reason I rubbed
your face in the beating I gave you and after the trades you've made in rotis,
I really thought you'd take something as ridiculous as they above.

    >Oh yeah, with any luck - I'll see you in Marlboro this year.....

Looking forward to it, I'll try not to laugh to hard.... :-)

CAp
    

                                                                                                    Doc, you could just put all
                                                                                                    your anti-Celtics comments
                                                                                                    out here so all those people
                                                                                                    that read notes at 80 column
                                                                                                    width wouldn't be able to 
                                                                                                    see the content!

                                                                                                    ps  1-on-1 PART II results
                                                                                                        iceMAN 7  DrM 3
    

    Cap, you may not be worth this, but this is my last word on the issue.
    From here on out, you can talk to yourself :
    
>Completely and utterly false, you've been trying to get my goat due to your
>lead in a rotis league.  
    
    Find another note or mail message where I've rubbed it in (however
    justified it may be), you'd be lucky to find two (if that many).
    
    I've gone out of my way not to write a Letterman Top 10 (does that sounds 
    famila ? BTW, it *was* a good note), or anything like that.
    
    It seems like your mind is playing tricks on you - in your anticipation
    of the deserved number I'm doing on you, you're finding spies in every
    shadow.
    
>    You are the ultimate trash talker ....
    
    Why thank you ! Pity you can't be more like me ....
    
>    and I was just giving you shit in  return. There was no malice in any of 
>    my statements.  
    
    Uh huh ... so how did this topic deviate from Kenny Smith ?
    
    Never mind don't answer ...
    
>   Just 100% truth. 
                     
    100% truth according to Bob Cappel. And *I'm* The Ultimate Trash Talker
    Extrodinare ?
    
    AHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA !!!!!

>    First off, all I did was counter your contention that Smith has given
>    the Rocket's the best point guard play since 85.  He has not...
 
    He has, and I'd put money that Don Chaney would disagree with you.
       
> I guarantee I've seen Smith play as many games with the Rockets this year
> as you have.  
    
    So you live in my home and monitor what I watch ? Yawn ....
     
    >Anyhow, it became obvious that Floyd was a better shooting guard  than
    >point man - much better.

> Agreed, but he was having a better year at point guard than Smith is this
> year...
  
    Like I said, don't get to wrapped up in stats, it makes you look bad.
    Just remember that without Akeem for 6 weeks or so, Smith had to score
    as well as playmake. Which means more TO's (increased risk taking),
    more points, fewer assists (since Smith would be shooting more) ...or
    did that occur to you ?
      
    
> Kenny's over the potential B.S.  He's been in the league for quite some time
>now 
    
    This is his 3rd or 4th season. Considering that he had to serve time in
    the Kings' 'organization', and then went to a contentious Hawk team, it
    just *might* have something to do with hsi uneven performance ....
    
>    and isn't even near the level that people had expected from him.  
    
    Maybe. But he's still young, and improving with the Rockets.
    
>    He's been a complete failure,
    
    Nothing is more amusing than watching you lose any pretense of
    objectivity. Talk about getting hoisted on one's petard ...
    
    >>Nobody talked more trash in DNR than you in 1990. You didn't win the
    >>league. (And you won't this year offering Schilling for Bip Roberts.)

> Nobody talked more trash than you did in 1989, it's the only reason I rubbed
> your face in the beating I gave you 
    
    I said I'd finsh ahead of your sorry tail in 89 and I did. In 90, you
    tried to have the Civilized World (not just me) believe that you had 
    the '27 Yankees, '76 Reds and '89 A's in one package.
    
>>    and after the trades you've made in rotis, I really thought you'd take 
>>    something as ridiculous as they above.

    Suuuuureee you did .... And after all that pious talk about how you
    made "fair and reasonable" offers to me - don't complain if I blow you
    off anymore from now on, OK amigo ?
    
    And if my trading is soooooo ridiculous, then why haven't you wiped me
    out in every league we've been in ?
    
    Never mind - don't answer .....

    Like I said, this is my last word on the subject. Enjoy yourself.
    
    doc

    Well, at least it's a change of pace from the Gronowski/Brooks debates.

Oh Yeah ! Well I take offense at that Mac !!!! I think it's even worse than the
Groaner-Sominex debates !!! U R TO BLAM !!!

SEZ ME !

I am write !!!! U R Rong !

2 Men R 2 BLAM !

Kenny SMith iz DOG ! 

No HeES snot !!!!

He IS GUUT !!!!

HE IZ bAd !

That Iz mI FINAL WURD !!

NO It'z MI FINAL Wurd !!!!!

    Re George Brooks
    
    Stomping you in a discussion is just too easy, it's like taking candy
    from a baby. :-)
    
    Re:  The last word on the subject
    
    Damn, if I had a nickel for every time, I've heard that from you.....:-)
    I know you'll stick you opinions in here once again as you never stand 
    by what you say(i.e this is my last word on the subject)
    
    As always I've held a little ammo back for the final kill...
    
    Quote from Don Chaney after 88'-89 season and coming into 89-90':
    
    "We look for big things this year from Sleepy Floyd, he's a great
     penatrator, pushes the ball up the floor, get steals, scores in
     traffic and can finish the play in transition........ When Sleepy's
     on, we as a team are pretty much unbeatable"
    
    Sounds like Don thought he did a pretty decent job, but George Brooks
    says he didn't so Don must be lying.  George have you put in your
    appliation for the Rocket's head coaching position?  
    
    Don supports my contention that Floyd had a very good year at the point
    in 88-89'.  You just remember Akeem whining about not getting the ball.
    Well Akeem is one of the most selfish players in the game(especially at
    that time, not so much now).
    
    Floyd is getting old so they turned the reigns over to Kenny Smith
    who's one of the poorest point guards in the league(proven by
    statistics and a very good case made through intangibles).  He's a very
    good offensive player but unfortunately a poor point guard.
    
    Re: Smith's numbers
    
    Since Akeem has been out, Smith's points per game average has barely
    risen, his turnover to assist ratio(poorest in the league)
    remained the same and his assist dropped slightly, so it shoots down
    your Akeem being out theory for his low numbers.
    
    Re: Trash talk
    
    Re-read your notes Doc for all the references to your huge lead in one
    rotis league.  You can't be that ignorant that you don't realize what 
    you wrote.  I'm sorry I hit a nerve exposing your Huge defencencies
    at the game of softball.  Didn't mean to embarass you...... :-)
    
    Question remains..... Will it be Doc's last word on the subject?????
    If I were a betting man, I'd wager that it won't be.......
    
    Cap

    Yep. It's my last word Cap. You win ..... 

    No offense, but even with the weighted statistical system you still
    don't account for the "Denver Nugget" factor, i.e. the pace at which
    the game is played.  The faster the pace, the more points, assists,
    rebounds, *and* steals and blocks on the defensive end a player should
    have.  Points allowed (*real* defense), lost possessions due to missed 
    shots (FG percentage) and turnovers are the negative factors which are
    just as important as the pure positive outputs, and which must be
    subtracted somehow to yield a "net worth" value.
    
    Just a guess, but the Nuggets as a team would probably fare pretty well
    in this system because they have high numbers in most of the above 
    categories, and yet they still have the worst record in the league.   
    
    glenn
    

    Amazing ain't it Slasher ? :-)
    
    Interesting tht the Rockets are still using Akeem off the bench. Even
    when Larry Smith missed Tuesday's game with an ankle sprain, the
    Rockets started David Wood in his place. Hmmm ......

>>    Interesting tht the Rockets are still using Akeem off the bench. Even
>>    when Larry Smith missed Tuesday's game with an ankle sprain, the
>>    Rockets started David Wood in his place. Hmmm ......

Well, actually Wood played at the forward position so technically Thorpe
started in his place.

    Kenny Smith won the NBA Player of the Week last week.  Rockets are only
    1� games out of first in the Midwest.
    
    Mike

    Smith, apparently from recent reports, is also going to get serious
    consideration as Most Improved Player this season.  But no one tell
    Cap, please.  I'd hate to see him disillusioned.
    
    Dan

    Yeah .... all of those facks that Cap has at his disposal Dan, I really
    don't think you want the personal attacks he'll fire at you if keep
    this silly line of reasoning up .... :-)
    
    DrM

    re .51
    
    Mike, are you ever so subtley moving unto the Rocket's bandwagon ? :-)
    
    FYI :
    
    The Rockets have won their last nine games, and something like 19 of
    their last 23. The 23-game stretch is the best in club history.
    
    Frankly, I expectde 45 wins, 48 would certainly be great ... but this ?
    With Akeem out for two months ? 
    
    Fantastic ! Barring a 1st round playoff collaspe, this season rates as
    a success, IMO.
    
    But nobody tell the players okay ?
    
    It really does seem that losing (H)Akeem is the best thing that could have
    ever happened to Houston (and Hakeem).
    
    Maybe Jordan ought to slip on a bannana peel ....
    
    Doc

To clear up any confusion for the ignorant....

I have never stated that Kenny Smith is not a talented offensive player.  For
the record, here is what I have said:
    
1.  Kenny Smith is a talented offensive player, good shooter and would
    make a good off-guard.

2.  Kenny Smith is a below average point guard who makes many mental and
    ballhandling mistakes during a game(why are Sleepy Floyd and Vernon
    Maxwell usually in the game during the final minutes of a close game?)
    (and many NBA experts also agree, I have never read nor seen any quotes 
    from any coach, scout or GM(including Don Chaney that have said Kenny 
    Smith is a talented point guard.  Can you guys produce one???)
                                    
3.  Kenny Smith only thrives offensively when their is another guard who
    can share the ballhandling load with him against pressure defenses.
    When he has to carry the entire ballhandling burden, his whole game
    falls apart.

4.  Kenny Smith is a poor defensive player.

Kenny Smith winning most improved awards for his increased offensive
output(scoring) this year does nothing to defeat my premise.  Those who look
at his scoring average as the measure of how well he's played the point
guard show how shallow their basketball knowledge actually is...

This is not an attack on NC basketball nor has it ever been that...  Kenny
Smith is not a good point guard.  He is a decent basketball player.
                                                          
Cap
    

    It's time to shut you up Doc....
    
    >Yeah .... all of those facks that Cap has at his disposal Dan, I really
    >don't think you want the personal attacks he'll fire at you if keep
    >this silly line of reasoning up .... :-)
    
    >DrM
    
    1.  Show me one personal attack that has been levied at you in this
        note.
    
    Put up or shut up
    
    Cap

>    Mike, are you ever so subtley moving unto the Rocket's bandwagon ? :-)
    
    you wish!
    
    It's been quiet in here so I thought I would enter that morsel to bait
    you and Cap.  Worked like a charm! ;-)
    
    Conrad Dobler ;-)

    Didn't bait me any, I wouldn't have said a word if I hadn't been given
    the opportunity to make two people who make vague assumptions and have
    poor reading comprehension skills look bad.
    
    In almost every note that I've entered in here, I've mentioned the fact
    that Kenny is a good offensive player...
    
    Thanks Mike, you've helped me not hindered me......
    

    Hey Mike ...
    
    
    Less filling !

    OK Cap, Kenny Smith got Player Of The Week and consideration for M.I.P.
    because his scoring increased, not because of any point guard skills he
    may possess. 
    
    Chaney thinks that it was Kenny's play that has made all the difference
    for the Rockets this season. Of course Chaney was talking about Smith's
    offense only.
    
    Whatever you say Cap. Please forgive us ignorant noters who would dare
    challange your gospel ....

    aw c'mon, you guys are no fun ;-)
    
    Mike

DOC TAKES DEFEAT GRACEFULLY, note and film on the way to the NOTY HOF!!!

 ;^)

    Doc, and Dan,
    
    I've seen the Rockets a number of times this year, and yes, Kenny Smith
    is improved -but he's not a point guard in the classic sense.  He
    scores, he drives - but his defense is very suspect, and he's not the
    best assist man in the world - and considering he has a relatively easy
    job with Houston - all he needs to do is get the ball inside to Akeem
    or Otis Thorpe.  He should be averaging 15 or so assists a game - but 
    he's not.
    
    The criticism of Kenny Smith is right on the button.  As for Chaney's
    comments - face it - any guard who can score consistently is a great
    improvement over what Houston has had for the last decade or so. 
    Sleepy Floyd was woefully inconsistent offensively.
    
    IMO, Smith would be a better 2 guard than he is at the point.
    
    The great point guards combine assists with scoring, defense, and
    running the offense.  Smith scores, and to some degree runs the
    offense, but he's not in the same league as the vast majority of NBA
    point guards.
    
    JD

Jd..
How dare you bring an objective opinion into the middle of a religious battle!!!!!!


shame shame shame and have fun at the regionals this weekend....


Metz

    Jd's opinion would carry a lot more weight except for a BIG (as in
    HUGE) hole in his logic ....
    
    Akeem has been out of the lineup for the better part of three months.
    
    So how many assists do you think Kenny got due to Akeem ?
    
    As for the rest of the note, I never said Kenny walked on water. In
    fact, I said that (in as many words) Kenny for all intents and purposes
    is a 2nd year NBA point guard. Sacramento is no place to get your NBA
    feet wet, and Atlanta didn't know what to do with the personel it had.
    
    Oh well .....

    Um Doc,  Kenny's assist totals weren't too great before Hakeem got
    hurt.  (Oh and Doc, Hakeem is back, so you should have said "Akeem
    (sic) WAS out of the lineup...."
    
    JD

    >I have never read nor seen any quotes 
    >from any coach, scout or GM(including Don Chaney that have said Kenny 
    >Smith is a talented point guard.  Can you guys produce one???)
    
    Saw Chaney interviewed a few weeks ago on TNT's weekly NBA show.  He
    positively raved about the diff. SMith has made to the Rockets this
    year.  I didn't tape it to produce quotes, but rest assured that the
    coach of the Houston Rockets is in violent disagreement with your
    expert opinion.  I have also heard reps of the Rockets, including
    CHaney and Akeem blast Sleepy as a point guard (and a teammate).  Maybe
    you'd better argue with them for awhile and show them all your quotes
    from the experts?
    
    Dan

    >He should be averaging 15 or so assists a game - but he's not.        
    
    Perhaps he *should* be leading the NBA in assists, which is tantamount
    to your statement.  And undeniably, he doesn't.  But he is the best
    thing that has happened to the Rocket point guard spot in quite some
    time, going back before Sleepy Floyd if you believe his coach and not
    Cap.
    
    I'm not voting him first team NBA or something like that.  I just
    recognize that the criticism has reached far beyond validity.
    
    Dan

    Dan,
    
    Try and understand this... I know it's hard but try... You can do it...
    I think Kenny Smith has had an very good year offensively.  I think 
    Kenny Smith is a good offensive player, but he is not a good NBA point
    guard.
    
    Don Chaney has commended Smith on his offensive contributions to the
    team(I saw the same interview)not his point guard play, not how well
    he ran the offense, not how well he handled the ball.
    
    Do you think you can understand what I've said(since I've said it about
    10 times in here)?  I haven't criticized Smith's offensive play or his
    offensive contribution to the team.  I've said Kenny Smith is a poor
    point guard.
    
    If you can offer proof to show that he is a good NBA point guard than
    do it, otherwise get off your soapbox and quit accusing me of something
    that I'm not doing...
    
    Cap

    Dan,
    You've done nothing but rehash what I and Cap have said.  Kenny is a
    good offensive player, but a mediocre point guard - by NBA standards.
    By Houston Rocket standards, Kenny Smith is the greatest point guard of
    all time - a mix of Cousey and Magic.  As you pointed out (and I did
    earlier), the Rockets point guard position has been woefully weak.
    
    JD

    >Try and understand this... I know it's hard but try... You can do it...
    
    Cap, I understand you perfectly.  And it's obvious that you didn't see
    the same interview.
    
    Now, you claim that Kenny Smith, point guard for the NBA Houston
    Rockets is one of the worst point guards in the NBA.  (I believe you
    had him as the 5th worst under the Cap Distorted Stats method...)
    
    You claim all praise for Smith is actually a firm agreement with your
    opinions.  Do you really think that Smith could do well in Comeback
    Player of the Year voting if the level he "came back to" was one of the
    worst players at his position?  I don't.
    
    I suggest to you that you are holding Smith up to far too harsh a
    light, and it's likely that you could criticize any player to your
    heart's content under such scrutiny.  Remember, under your system,
    Muggsy Bogues is the best point guard in basketball.
    
    Dan

    
    Dan,
    
    Look at how his offensive stats last year and look at them now and
    you'll see why he might be comeback player of the year....(You'd think
    you might understand why someone who is scoring so much would be
    considered???)
    
    The reason he is scoring so much is that Vernon Maxwell and Sleepy
    Floyd handle a large share of the ballhandling duties, thus relieving
    Kenny of carrying that burden.....
    
    If he's such a good point guard, why are his assist totals so low but
    his turnover totals are among the highest in the league???
    
    My measure of Kenny Smith as a point guard does not only take turnovers
    to assist ratio but it is a good measure.  Other stats were used, as
    well as intangibles(including analysis of Kenny from 5 NBA scouts and
    3 coaches.)
    
    Why don't you rank Kenny in the scheme of point guards and let's see
    where Dan the NBA expert puts him(I ranked him 22 or 23rd in the
    league).
    
    Anyway I'm done arguing this with you as you only doing it for the sake
    of argument, you've done nothing to support your premise.  So it's 
    ridiculous to continue...
                  
    Cap
    

   >you've done nothing to support your premise...
    
    But provide direct contradictions of your stated opinions, by among
    others, Smith's coach.  I've also showed the illogic of your own
    premise, as the worst players in the league (your premise) would be
    ridiculed and not earn praise from the writers who vote on these
    things.
    
    Dan

    
    I thought that it was an impossibility in the NBA to win with poor
    point guard play.  Never mind the stats that everyone agrees are
    deceiving for a position like point guard; the Rockets are having an
    excellent season in a year in which Olajuwon has missed significant
    time, and Kenny Smith is the biggest change in the make-up of the team.
    
    Overall, even if he doesn't fit the classic mold for point guard, Smith
    is playing the position and the Rockets are much improved and playing
    very well.  Given that, I find it very hard to believe that his overall
    grade at the point guard position can be categorized as "poor".  None
    of the evidence presented thus far is very convincing, at least.
    
    glenn
     

>premise, as the worst players in the league (your premise) would be
>    ridiculed and not earn praise from the writers who vote on these
>    things.  

Cap has never said that Kenny is one of the worst players in the league. He 
has always stated that he is one of the worst "pure" point guards in the league.

But that never stops you from twisting words....


Metz

    
    Thank you Metz, I think Kenny Smith is a very talented offensive player
    and has really improved his jump shot this year.....

>Cap has never said that Kenny is one of the worst players in the league.
    
    He has claimed that SMith is one of the worst players at his position. 
    Is their some historical context that anyone can point to where such
    players receive accolades for their performance from the leagues
    voters?
    
    Dan
    

    Is being named Most Improved Player a backhanded compliment?

I honestly haven't seen Houston play this year so I can't make a statement.

However from the two arguements being presented it sounds like Kenny Smith
isn't even playing point guard in the true sense of the word. If (as Cap says)
much of the ball handling is done by Sleepy then it sounds like Kenny is
actually playing shooting guard and this whole discussion is moot.

I'll have to make an effort to watch them the next time they are on TBS or
TV. 

Actually I'll make it a point not to watch them so I won't get dragged into 
this "discussion" :-)


Metz

    Yes, Metz, but what you claim was word-twisting had absolutely no
    bearing on the subject at hand.
    
    Dan

    
    Dan, Here is the answer to your question, please explain why the following
    players are among the best at their position.
    
    Players that could receive most improved player award this year and are
    among the worst at their positions.....
    
    Scott Skiles
    Harvey Grant
    Orlando Woolridge
    Ricky Green
    Kenny Smith
    Randy White
    
    I've offered my opinions on why Kenny Smith is a poor point guard, back
    them up with explanations and stats(having played the point for 14
    years of organized ball helps as well).
    
    So please list:
    
    	1) Why Kenny Smith is among the best at his position?
     	2) You're point guard rankings so we can see where Kenny falls
    
    Please don't bring up the Chaney crap again, we both know that Chaney
    did not say that Kenny's done a great job distributing the ball,
    handling the ball against pressure or played good defense.(I watched
    the full interview, Chaney talked about the offensive spark Kenny's
    given them with his scoring....)
    
    Cap

    Metz, Cap is wrong. Kenny SMith is handling much of the conventional
    point guard duties. I know from watching the Rockets in person, and on
    the tube. Plus friends in Houston keep me posted.
    
    Maxwell is mostly a shooting guard, with some great one-on-one skills.
    Floyd is a nice two-way guard (his closest spiritual cousin is Andrew
    Toney), but his strength is his ability to score fast and often. He has
    decent point guard skills, that would be better on a team without a
    conventional center (like when he made the All-Star team at G.S.). In
    Houston, he has had problems on the point.
    
    Smith is a fine offensive player. He has the soul of a shooting guard.
    He is also a good ballhandler, and will move the ball to the open man.
    He has also shown the ability to play the two-man game extremely well
    with Hakeem.
    
    The times I saw Smith, he handled the ball a high % of the time.
    Remember, when Maxwell is in, then he is the point guard. When he and
    Floyd are in together, then they spilt the load.
    
    Smith's avg. is high because he took on more of a scoring burden when
    Akeem went down. He had no choice. 
    
    Dose Kenny turn the ball over a lot ? Yes. Does he crank out 10 apg ?
    No. But he doesn't dominate the ball either, the way guards like
    Stockton and Magic do. And the Rockets are better for it not being that
    way. They have multiple options with Smith at the point.
    
    I guess the bottom line is simple - are the Rockets a better team with
    Smith playing point guard ?
    
    They've won 10 in a row, 22 of their last 26 (many of those with Hakeem
    out), and on their way to a club record number of wins with Smith as
    the trigger man.
    
    How did they do last year ?
    
    Doc

    >Dan, Here is the answer to your question, please explain why the following
    >players are among the best at their position.
    
    I didn't ask such a question.  Let's wait until the voting comes out
    and I'll gladly revisit the issue, but I find your list prejudiced
    toward the outcome you desire.
    
    	>1) Why Kenny Smith is among the best at his position?
    
    Haven't claimed it, so don't need to defend it.  Or do I?
    
     	>2) You're point guard rankings so we can see where Kenny falls
    
    Magic Johnson alone on first tier.  Stockton, Thomas, Hardaway, KJ,
    etc. on a second tier.  Price, SPud, Pooh, etc. next.  Smith would fall
    in with a crowd like Fleming, Shaw, Humphries, etc.  Each lack some
    skills that you'd like to see in an ideal point guard, but each brings
    something to the table which helps his game and his team.  Smith gets
    extra points for intangibles for what he has done to his team, bringing
    them stability at the position, a complementary scoring threat, and
    earning big points with the coach as the key transaction which has
    turned the team around.
    
    You assert that he's among the worst at his position.  I'm quite sure
    Don Chaney would join me in scoffing at the remark.
    
    There's no doubt that this year, Kenny Smith has carved a nice niche
    for himself.  It will be interesting to see what the experts who's
    opinions you value so highly will have to say in next year's set of
    reviews.
    
    Dan

    re -1 
    
    Agreed 100% Jeff, Dominique has raised his game to a new level....
    
    re Doc,
    
    You've been misinformed Doc, Maxwell is a very good ballhandler and 
    sparked the team last year after his arrival while playing the point 
    guard position.  Do you want more direct quotes from Chaney on how well
    Maxwell ran the break and the offense because I have them...
    
    It's amazing how I've been able to rile you, Dan and ACChris up by
    simply saying that Kenny is among the worst starting point guards in
    the league.  You refuse to lok at what I have and haven't said so let
    me make it easy for you.....
    
    	1.  I never said the Rockets were not better off having Kenny Smith
    	    at the point.  I think offensively he's been a spark to the
   	    team and a great offensive threat.
    
    	2.  I've never said that Kenny Smith wasn't a talented offensive
    	     player because he is... He's a great 1 on 1 player with a 
    	    variety of offensive moves and he drives strong to the basket.
    
    	3.  I have said that Kenny turns the ball over and can't handle 
    	    defensive pressure.
    	
    	4.  I have said that Kenny is a very poor defender...
    
    	5.  I have said that a number of point guards(+20) in the league
    	    could start for Houston and give them better production than
    	    Kenny Smith.
    
    	6.  That Keny Smith would be one of the better shooting guards in
    	    the league and would be that he will end up in that position
    	    before his career in Houston is over...
    
    And throuhg this all, I've never referred to the quote from Dick Motta
    several years back that called Smith the most gutless player in the
    history of the NBA(which was probably taken out of context but I'm
    sure there is a sliver of truth in the statement..)
    
    Cap
    	 

    >        -< This years most improved player is 'Nique Wilkins. >-
    
    Certainly deserves prominent mention, and for a superstar to make such
    a jump is a great testiment.  Amother player who springs to mind is
    Chris Dudley of the Nets, but he probably doesn't have a chance in the
    voting.
    
    Dan

    Dan,
    
    Don Chaney has said the exact same things about Sleepy Floyd and Vernon
    Maxwell...  It's called building your players up.....

    	>6.  That Keny Smith would be one of the better shooting guards in
    	>    the league and would be that he will end up in that position
    	>    before his career in Houston is over...
    
    Given that for the last 5 years or so, Houston has had point guards who
    would clearly be better at off guard running the offense, and the only
    good PG they had wasted the best parts of his career (and ignoring that
    Don Chaney publicly holds a different opinion on Smith than Cap), will
    Houston be looking for a true point man over the off-season, and then
    have three off guards in Sleepy, Smith and Maxwell?
    
    Dan

    
    Surprise, surprise...
    
    Dan, I ranked Kenny Smith in the almost the exact same area that you
    did.  Ithink Kenny is slightly ahead of Fleming but behind
    Shaw and Humpheries(which puts him in the lower echelon of point
    guards).
    
    If you improved your reading comprehension skill than you would have 
    picked that out.... :-)
    
    CAp
    

    >Don Chaney has said the exact same things about Sleepy Floyd and Vernon
    >Maxwell...  It's called building your players up.....
    
    I see.  When he agrees with you, it's gospel.  When he disagrees with
    you, it's building his players up.
    
    BTW, I also heard an interview a few months ago which also shreds your
    opinion.  The occasion was when I was listening to the Knicks against
    the Rockets on the radio, and the pre-game interview was Houston
    announcer, Calvin Murphy.  Now you might say he knows something about
    the Houston Rockets and playing the guard position.  He cited Smith at
    the point position as a huge benefit for the Rockets this year.  The
    interview turned into a long praise of Smith and what he has meant to
    the team, and to (H)Akeem's play.
    
    Dan

    re .91
    
    Back off Dan ! Cap is a 14-year vet, and if I were you, I'd defer to
    his experience, savvy, and other intangibles .... ha. :-)
    
    Cap, wake up dude. First of all, I started this whole issue by saying
    that Kenny Smith is the biggest reason for the Rocket's turnaround.
    
    Nobody could dispute that, but you tried.
    
    Of course you failed. 
    
    I and others noticed your quiet and tact withdrawl from the (correct)
    assertion that Kenny Smith has given the Rockets their best point guard
    play since John Lucas.
    
    You tried to argue otherwise, and it didn't work. Of course.
    
    Then you tried the shift the discussion to two non sequitors :
    
    1) Smith is not a highly rated point guard, and has weaknessess
    
    So ? I never put Smith on a pedestal, nor said that he didn't have a
    lot of room for improvement.
    
    However, it was you that said "[Smith] was a total failure as a
    player."
    
    This above is proof positive that your objectivity and judgement is, to
    put it nicely, questionable ....
    
    As for his weaknessess, yes he still turns the ball over a little too
    much, and his point skills are still far from refined. But it will
    come, and he hasn't done half bad so far.
    
    2) Smith is not the true point guard of the Rockets.
    
    This is a point that you invented halfway through this discussion, and
    one that only you take seriously.
    
    Not suprising, since you didn't cook it up until halfway through all of
    this.
    
    Oh well .....
    
    Doc

    Cap, we've all made allowences for you because of PMS - please don't
    push it.
    
    Doc
    
    p.s. I didn't toss in that "14-year" experience factor stuff, so don't
    get mad. Take it like a man. Of course it will be interesting to see if
    you can play in the A-league, I hear half of the A-league is waiting
    for your tail. The other half refuses to take you seriously.
    
    BTW, are going to play a real 3rd base, or hide out in left field ? 

    I've decided not to get into these childish games with you Doc(you did
    a good job draggin me in...).  If you want to print untruths about me
    to make you feel better than go ahead...
    
    Cap

    Although you're usually right on target Jeff, I'd have to dispute
    'Nique as most improved player.  How much better is Atlanta this 
    year?  Answer is some, but not much, and most of that can be
    attributed to Bobby Weiss, who's done a nice job as coach.  I
    can think of a half dozen guys more deserving as Most Improved
    player than Wilkins:
    
    	- Harvey Grant, Washington
    	- Kevin Gamble, Boston
    	- Dan Schayes, Milwaukee
    	- Scott Skiles, Orlando
    	- Tim Hardaway, Golden State
    	- Kenny Smith, Houston
    	
    I'm sure there are others, but I can't think of them off the top
    of my head.
    
    As for this Kenny Smith-point guard controvesy/rathole, here's how 
    the point guards rank in the NBA:
    
    Top Group:  Magic Johnson
    Second Tier:  Kevin Johnson, Tim Hardaway, Terry Porter, John Stockton,
    		  Isiah Thomas, Mark Price (IR)
    Third Tier:  Brian Shaw, Pooh Richardson, Derek Harper, Sherman
    		 Douglas, Kenny Smith, Jay Humphries, Michael Adams
    Fourth Tier:  Darryl Walker, Rod Strickland, Kendall Gill, Scott Skiles,
    		  Vern Fleming, John Paxson, Mookie Blaylock, Spud Webb
    Fifth Tier:  Maurice Cheeks, Gary Payton, Ricky Green
    Bottom Tier:  Gary Grant, Rory Sparrow
    
    NAZZ
    

    Nazz has Smith in the upper/middle of the pack, I have him in the lower
    middle of the pac ( prove it next year as well).  Cap claims he agrees
    with my ratings.
    
    The argument's over I guess.
    
    Dan

    re Dan
    
    I do that's where I ranked him from the beginning.  You were arguing
    for nothing....
    
    Cap

>>    Although you're usually right on target Jeff, I'd have to dispute
>>    'Nique as most improved player.

Well, it was partially tongue-in-cheek, Nazz, although he has elevated his game
to the point where I'd call him a team player.  Isn't that argument enough for
him to be most improved ;-)?  The fact that he's over an assist a game is
enough for me.  But there are better candidates.  'Nique deserves the "you CAN
teach an old dog new tricks" award.

j.

    Well the debate is over... Kenny Smith is no longer the Rocket's
    starting point guard(It actually happened several weeks ago according
    to a friend from Texas).  Kenny has been starting at shooting guard
    and playing quite well(in fact I'd say he's one of the top shooting 
    guards in the game right now).  If you check recent box scores you'll
    notice that Kenny is starting as the shooting guard.  Vernon Maxwell
    and Sleepy Floyd have been handling the point situation as of late....
    This is very noticeable when looking at the stats that show both Maxwell's 
    and Floyds assist totals going up over 35% over the last 5 weeks and 
    Smith's assist total going down.  In the same time-frame, his scoring
    has gone up and his turnover rate has gone down.  This all leads to the
    fact that Kenny is no longer running than show and is much more
    valuable as the starting shooting guard....
    
    The National had this to say about Smith....
    
    "Kenny Smith, one of the Rockets whose game has advanced to a higher
    level since Olajuwon was sidelined by a blowout fracture of the bone
    that houses his right eyeball is the hottest-shooting guard going right
    now...."
    
    The insertion of Maxwell at the point and Smith at the shooting guard
    has the Rockets playing their best ball of the year....
    
    As usual Doc jumped on Smith's bandwagon before he had all the
    facts(I'd been saving this juicy tidbit about Smith's change for the 
    final kill...)But of course Doc would like everyone to believe alot that's 
    not true, it's one of his favorite weapons.....
    
    Well the debate is over... Chaney felt that Smith was not point guard
    material and was much more valuable at the shooting guard(where he can
    play a two man game with Olajuwon or Thorpe and rack up easy assists).
    
    Smith is an average point guard(because of his offense from the
    position) but he is a valuable shooting guard(one of the 10 best in the
    league right now...).
    
    Cap
    
    

    The Cap transformation ....
    
    "Kenny is a total failure ...."
    
    "Kenny has improved his offense ....."
    
    "Kenny gets exploited ...."
    
    'Kenny is improved, but still rates poorly ...."
    
    And now,
    
    (to paraphrase)
    
    "Kenny is a great shooting guard, and doesn't play point guard
    anymore..."
    
    Not to mention :
    
    "If you check *recent* box scores ....."
    
    (Implication : Kenny had been starting extensively at point guard,
    but may now be at shooting guard for a variaty of reasons.
    
    Please note that Cap - not Don Chaney - has advanced reasons for this
    'change'.)
    
    And you have the nerve to say I'm on a bandwagon.
    
    Too funny Cap.
    
    I'll give you credit for some fancy footwork - you have gradually
    progressed from a all-out Kenny Smith bash session (inspired by your
    anti-NC bias to be sure), to a sort of grudging consession of his
    talents. (It helped that Dan, Jeff, and Nazz weren't buying your hype
    either ....)
    
    And you eventry to turn it into a vicotry by saying, "well he isn't a
    point guard anyway... and Doc jumped on his bandwagon.... and a 'friend
    from Texas' told me that Smith is the point guard...."
    
    I'm roolwaard .....
    
    Doc

    Again Doc, you're uttering falsehoods to try and cover your
    embarrassment... Please find in this note, where I didn't have at least
    one good thing to say about Kenny Smith???
    
    This constant denial of the truth in order to try and make me appear
    to have said something that I haven't is really embarrassing....
    
    No one jumped on Kenny's bandwagon.  Dan and I have agreed from the
    start on our ranking of Kenny as a point guard and I have been
    consistent with my praise for him as both a catalyst for the Rockets
    and a talented offensive scorer.
    
    I've also been consistent in my criticisms of his play as a point guard
    which has in no way, shape or form lived up to his acclaims as the
    number 1 point guard coming out of college.
    
    Isn't it time that you gave up this fraudulant charade you're playing
    and acknowledge the truth in this matter.....
    
    Cap

    Zzzzzzzz .... now you and Dan have "agreed from the outset" ....
    
    I think Dan would have a raised eyebrow over that one.
    
    FWIW, I never said that Smith was a great point guard. ANd I've said
    that before too. But you keep insisting that I'm making him out to be
    the 2nd coming of Magic - so that you could have an excuse to keep
    'debating'.
    
    You've a lot to learn about that art ....
    
    Moreover I said that Smith's play is the big difference in the Rockets
    this year. Hakeem and Chaney seem to agree with me, even if you don't.
    
    All of the red herrings that you spout will not change that fact. 
    
    And that is the bottom line. Not that Kenny is a great point guard. Not
    that Kenny is eve in the top 10. But the fact that Kenny is doing what
    he has to for the Rockets - and it has made them a better team than
    they've been since 86 .....
    
    If that's a denial of truth - then get the rubber room ready ... :-)
    
    Doc
    
    p.s. Smelts suck the big one ..... :-)

    
    Kenny Smith hasn't played the point guard position in over a month(it 
    could be longer but I don't have the box scores).  Concurrently, the
    Rockets are the hottest team in basketball and Kenny Smith's play at
    the shooting guard is one of the reasons for that....(plus the improved
    play of Vernon Maxwell, a rejuvinated Sleepy Floyd, Otis Thorpe and
    Larry Smith's unselfish attitude have also been major reasons for the
    recent streak...).
    

    re.104
    
    Doc,  I've asked you 3 times to prove one of your statements true and
    you haven't done any of the times...
    
    Pretty sad and desparate when you have to resort to those tactics....
    
    Cap

    Depends on what kind of debating you're talking about, Hawk.  For
    instance, the Massachusetts type is doing quite well in this particular
    note.  Yep, The Massdebating is at an all-time high, I'd say.  :*)
    
    Lee

    >(plus the improved play of Vernon Maxwell, a rejuvinated Sleepy Floyd,
    
    I find it extremely hard to believe that Maxwell and Floyd run an
    offense any better than Kenny Smith.  They're both extremely selfish
    players who need the ball in their hands.  They're both have an
    excellent offensive moves and a scorer's mentality.
    
    I'll have to keep an eye on the boxes to see if this transition has
    really takent place.
    
    Dan

    Observation: This notes was pretty quite before the 12 game win streak.
    
    	There seems to be alot of bickering in here....Reminds me of when I
    	was 10 and use to get the last word in (I guess some notres are 
    	letting there kids in here again).
    
    Back to basketball .....Will Houston move up the latter, there
    currently in the 6th position and clinched a playoff spot (I think last
    night) There only 1/2 game behind SA and 1.5 behind utah (still dont
    know the score to the Utah Milwaukee game last night ...) The only 2
    spot really filled in the west are the 7th and 8th spots, I dont see
    seattle catching GS and GS is almost numerciall out of reach of houston
    Should be an intresting stretch this year, one good thing is there are
    no longer 2 or 3 teams in the west theres now 6 teams still in the
    running for the #1 spot with only 5.5 games seperation #1 and #6....
    
    							M_Air_B

Doc, Utah beat Milwaukee last night.  I don't know if Houston will
beat out San Antonio for the top spot in the midwest, but I 
guarantee that they'll pass the Utes.

Laker_Ken

    The Jazz have always been a matchup problem for Houston, even if Mark
    Eaton is a stiff .... :-) eaton always seems to give Akeem some
    problems, but Houston, for the first time in a long time, can match the
    Jazz in the backcourt. It will be a hell of a stretch run, that's for
    sure.

HOUSTON ROCKETS
Player              G  MIN   FG  FGA   FG%   FT  FTA   FT%
OLAJUWON,A         42 1555  388  750  .517  169  217  .779
THORPE,O           68 2511  467  839  .557  277  395  .701
SMITH,K            67 2316  452  863  .524  249  292  .853
MAXWELL,V          68 2376  412 1012  .407  174  239  .728
FLOYD,S            68 1481  322  773  .417  153  203  .754

HOUSTON ROCKETS
Player              3FG 3FGA OREB TREB  AST STL  TO BLK  PF  PTS  AVG
OLAJUWON,A            0    3  164  572  105  88 129 166 160  945 22.5
THORPE,O              2    5  238  703  166  59 182  14 234 1213 17.8
SMITH,K              39  108   32  139  468  96 206  10 117 1192 17.8
MAXWELL,V           137  399   32  195  260 108 143  12 141 1135 16.7
FLOYD,S              43  152   41  126  259  74 107  15  96  840 12.4

Smith tied for second on team in scoring, shooting remarkable .524 from
the field!  Leads team from the line at .853.  In slightly less minutes
than Vernon has over 40% *more* assists.

		Min/Asst    Min/TO      Asst/TO
Smith            4.95        11.24        2.27
Maxwell          9.13        16.62        1.82
Sleepy           5.71        13.84        2.42

No question who's doing the best there, and no question that Floyd at the
point was a disaster in the past.  I don't care if every assist Smith
has this year is off the 2-man game; lots of players, Stockton, Magic
and Bird included, rack up assists that way.  Yeah, SMith's TOs probably 
don't leave him an ideal point man, but look at the choices: Sleepy's is 
worse and Maxwell is a gunner.

Dan

    Dan,
    
    Unfortunately the stats posted don't tell the whole story but they do
    support my claims.  I wish certain people in here would objectively
    look into my claims.  
    
    The stats show the full season, approximately 77% of the season Maxwell 
    played the shooting guard and Smith played the point guard.  Thus it's
    unfair to compare the two statistically.   Time will tell with Maxwell
    at the point but I'd say with their recent win streak he's doing a good
    job.  Kenny Smith is better than the Floyud of today at point, no
    question.  I'll reserve my judgement on Maxwell until I've seen him
    play more often at the point.
    
    In my last note I the subject, I promise, here's my thoughts....
    
    1.  Since late February Don Chaney has seen fit to start Kenny Smith
    	at the shooting guard position and Vernon Maxwell at the point
    	guard position.  Reasons: Maxwell is a better ballhandler, Smith
    	is a better shooter/driver adn it takes pressure off of Smith 
    	allowing him to create offense through his shooting and drives
    	to the basket(he's a talented offensive performer and good
    	athelete). The reasons listed are strictly my opinion.  I kept
    	the Chaney switch of guards to myself hoping I could bait Doc and
    	than move in for the final kill(since he claims to have watched so
    	much Rocket ball this year.)
    
    2.  The Rockets in that span have become the hottest team in basketball
    	going something like 15-1 in that time frame.
    
    3.  Kenny Smith at best is an average point guard and that is only due
    	to his offensive contributions in terms of scoring.  He is not good
    	at running the break, handling the ball against pressure or running
    	an offense(although for the Rocket's needs he was adequate.)
    
    4.  Kenny Smith will never become an All-star as a point guard but he
    	has a chance to as a shooting guard.  He is fantastic at playing a 
    	two man game with Thorpe and Akeem.  Why, because he can stick the 
    	jumper.
    
    5.  Sleepy Floyd gave the Rockets good point guard play two years ago.
    	Doc only remembers Akeem's whining about not getting the ball
    	enough and thinks that Sleepy did a poor job.  He didn't and both
    	his coach and management thought he did a fine job that year(as
    	he was rewarded with a fat multi-year contract.  Is he a good 
    	point guard now?  No.  he's lost a few steps and now only has 
    	his offense left.  He used to create by driving and dishing but
    	he's too slow to do that on most NBA guard's now so he's just
    	a perimeter player.
    
    6.  For a great athelete, Kenny plays terrible D.  He's improved since
    	his college days but he's nowhere near being a good defender.  His
    	quickness allows him to make up for a few mistakes but guards
    	routinely torch him for big nights.  I have however seen some
    	improvement in his D this year.  Chaney has taught him a few
    	things, he's one hell of a cch.
    
    Now this is as objective as I can be and has been what I've basically
    stressed from the beginning about Kenny.  Can you agree or see the
    logic in any of these statements?
    
    This is not a NC bash session, it's an honest and objective look at a 
    ballplayer.  I really feel that the Rockets and Smith will prosper more
    with Smith at the shooting guard.
    
    Cap
    
    

    Nah Cap, I looked past Akeem's whining (rememebr he also layed into
    McCray, Reid, and almost everyone else in a Rocket uniform). 
    
    What I couldn't look past was Floyd's discomfort level at the point.
    For every great game he had there, he had two that left most people
    scratching their head. And I don't think that he was that great running
    a 3-2 break with decent defense. I believe that he had problems against
    pressure, but those are as much team problems are they are indivdual.
    
    The addition of Maxwell (at a bargain-basement price, kudos to
    Patterson) and Smith have given the Rockets an extra two ballhandlers.
    None of the three frighten people the way some of the league's
    premiere ballhandlers can, but combined, they do an above-average job
    vs. pressure.
    
    As for Maxwell, he's a good shooter, a pretty good ballhandler, and can
    certainly create his offense. Trouble is (from when I last saw him)
    that he has little conscience. And that is an improvement over his
    rookie year ....
    
    I'm not suprised at the job Chaney has done - the hardest part was
    getting people to listen. And considering the fact that he was a fine
    defender in his own day, the fact that Smith has shown improvement is
    not a suprise.
    
    And for all of the moves, good and bad that Chaney has made, it was a
    stray Bill Cartwright elbow that may very well put the Rockets over the
    top.

    Kenny has been surrounded by great company as a point guard.  3 weeks
    ago KJ won player of the week, 2 weeks ago Kenny won it, and Mitch
    Richmond won it last week.
    
    Conrad Dobler

    Kenny Smith, who I've been told is not the point guard, scored 25
    points and dished out 13 assists last night as the Rockets came back
    big for a win, with Hakeem spending significant time on the bench.
    
    On ESPN's SportCenter they referred to Smith as "Likely the Rockets
    most valuable player this year".
    
    Dan

    Wow Kenny had a good game being guarded by a player 9 inches shorter
    and 65 pounds lighter....
    
    My eyes are now opened...

    I dont have much info to go on becasue I dont see many Houston games
    but with all the fuss in here over Kenny Smith I wanted to check him
    out for myself.   Houston was playing atlanta at atlandta by no means
    an easy game for houston.  And bottom line...I dont care what position
    you want to call him, he impressed me. He handled the ball well made
    some UNBELIEVEABLE passes that he would have made against a guy 10
    inches taller and 50 lbs heavier then himself.....He also made a few
    great moves towards the hoop, 9-16,6-8 13 assists....Id say he did
    fairly good....Hakeem went out, Smith took over....THey one the game.
    Theyve now won 13 in a row and are chanlanging for the division.....
    You cant argue with this mans ability.  Granted This was the only full
    game Ive seen him play but based on that Id have to agree with most of
    the positive things that have been stated about him.....I guess well
    see what hes made of in the playoffs....I hope they get to play the
    lakers....
    							M_Air_Brooks

    The Rockets have stretch their winning streak to 13, as Vernon Maxwell
    nailed a jumper from just inside the 3-point line for a 112-111 win
    over Atlanta at the Omni.
    
    BTW Maxwell had 22 points and 5 assists, while "off-guard" Kenny Smith
    had 25 points and 13 assists.
    
    Houston has to beat Miami and Orlando to become the seventh team in NBA
    history to go undefeated in a month. Their 15-0 mark would only be
    second to the '72 Lakers 16-0.

    Utah lost too!  

 What is this "Hakeem" stuff ???   Before Bill Cartwright rearranged his
 eye socket, he was just plain "Akeem".
 
 What with each injury he adds a letter ???   Ihakeem ???  Jihakeem ??? 
 Kjihakeem ???
 
 Bob Hunt

    .125/Bob H.
    
    	Hakeem is the original Islamic spelling of his name.  Prior
    to coming to the U.S., he dropped the 'H' and went by Akeem.
    He started using the 'H' again after his parents in Nigeria wondered 
    why he dropped it.
    
    						 glen j.
    

    Hakeem means "wise one" in Arabic .... and the H is usually soft or
    silent ....
    
    Dr HM

    Look who finished 3rd. 
    
    Conrad Dobler
    -------------------------------
    [from todays Globe]
    Kevin Gamble finished second to Scott Skiles (Orlando) for balloting
    by the NBA media for Most Improved Player. Skiles got 25 of a 
    possible 96 votes, Gamble received 21, and Kenny Smith (Houston)
    received 20.
    Last year Gamble averaged 5.1 points in 12.9 minutes a game. This
    year he averaged 15.6 points in 33 minutes a game and shot 58.7%,
    third best in the NBA.