Conference 7.286::sports_91

    
    I don't like Mac's idea about using MAIL for personal attacks for two
    reasons:
    
    1.  Us non-technoweenies don't know how to use mail, we are manly and
    use all-in-one.
    
    2.  Since Mac has done that, I've been innundated with mail, mostly
    from Texan soccer players.

Hawk is a terd


Mike JN

Headers removed....

Subj:	FYI-Layoffs
Subj:	News Center 5


	The MidDay Report from Channel 5 in Boston just reported
	that DEC is planning the 9000 person lay-off, the same
	number as reported in the last memo I forwarded out...

			7500 in Massachusetts and
			1500 in New Hampshire

	They said, "The Maynard, Massachusetts based computer firm
	was contacted by Channel 5, and would neither confirm nor
	deny the report."

    
    The correct spelling is
    
    TURD
    
    
    HTH
    
    Kev
    

    So much for freedom of speech....
    	any notes files out there with freedom of speech
    	where I can read about sports and voice an opinion
    	on worldly topics.....sheshh

>                     <<< Note 73.133 by KIDVAX::MBROOKS >>>
>             -< didnt know where to go (middleeast write locked) >-
>
>    So much for freedom of speech....
>    	any notes files out there with freedom of speech
>    	where I can read about sports and voice an opinion
>    	on worldly topics.....sheshh

Don't lay that freedom of speech crap down in here.  

Read policies and procedures, and the corporate guidelines for notes
conferences and computer usage.  First off, because this is a 
private network, owned by a private company, there is no guarantee
of any freedom of speech.  I abhor censorship more than any one I 
know of, but there are rules which exist concerning notes conferences
and their contents.

I took this conference when it appeared that it woudl go away forever,
and in becoming a moderator I accepted the fact that I and the other
mods may be held personally responsible for what goes on in here.

We made topic 46 available as a way for electronic friends to cope
with the reality of what went on last Wednesday.  In doing so, we
went out on a limb, since Mid East has NOTHING to do with SPORTS.

Over the past week, we've skated on thin ice regarding all of the
ethnic groups involved, and have had to set some notes hidden as
they clearly violated P&P.

Finally, there has been murmuring lately of doing away with 
non-work-releated notes conferences.  Because of this, we're trying
to make SPORTS a little bit more in line, so that it doesn't get
singled out for termination.


These are some of the reasons why that topic was right locked.

There's always SOAPBOX and the Middle East conference....


fw

�    So much for freedom of speech....
�    	any notes files out there with freedom of speech
�    	where I can read about sports and voice an opinion
�    	on worldly topics.....sheshh
    
    For starters, Notes usage is not governed by the US Constitution, but
    by DEC P&P and the moderators of the conference.
    
    Second, I don't think you will find a conference to read about sports
    AND discuss worldly topics, but there are plenty of opportunities to
    discuss sports OR worldly topics.

    Ive seen alot worse, if people were going to far you should have
    contacted them directly.  I didnt know that a middle east note 
    existed, maybe this topic should have not been started and I can
    see why it was shut off, but it should have been either shut off
    earlier, not started or individuals should have been talked to
    offline.  Well have a nice day :-), the topics dead.  Back to
    sports........................................................

As you noticed (or maybe you didn't), I had stopped writing in that
topic. 

The reasons were:

	People have made up their minds...  myself included.
	Once a position was stated, the ensuing conversations became a
`yes it is___no it isn't' exercise.
	It is an emotional subject, and I am convinced if continued,
electronic `friendships' would suffer.

	I think the initial intent of the note was, and still is,
excellent. This IS where we all turn. It IS Sports, but anyone with half
a brain can witness the fact that we can and do discuss everything from
beer to tape.

	I'd suggest it might be an idea to keep the note alive for
Mideast news. Anyone who has updates could send them to Frank or one of
the other mods, and let them post it in 46. Free Speech is all well and
good, but I have a feeling that there are better forums for the type of
sniping that was going on in 46.

IMO
Mike JN

    
    So much for Freedom of Speech! What? Seems to me that you just voiced
    your opinion!  Now *that's* FREEDOM OF SPEECH!
    
    Now, On with sports!
    
    B.A.

�	I'd suggest it might be an idea to keep the note alive for
�Mideast news. Anyone who has updates could send them to Frank or one of
�the other mods, and let them post it in 46. 
    
    Personally speaking, I spend enough time moderating Sports as it is.  I
    would not be amenable to this suggestion.

    
    Let it lie-- the quality of the usual sports-related ratholes was
    really starting to suffer...
    
    glenn
    

    Could the mods please publish the node and name of the Middle East
    Conference??
    
    PJ

There is no middle east conference that I know of.  The predominant discussions
are in PEAR::SOAPBOX, COMET::DEFENSE_ISSUES, and HPSCAD::ISRAELI_GULFWAR.

j.

    
    
    Don't know if anybody saw it...but in the local rag this morning is a
    write up about a letter that was sent from DECCY in Israel to a DEC employee
    here that has made its rounds of a few notefiles.........
    
    
    
    	Lou

�    Could the mods please publish the node and name of the Middle East
�    Conference??
    
    For future reference, there is nothing magical about a moderators
    information sources.  Anyone can find out what conferences are on the
    net by accessing VTX EASYNOTES.

    Several times today when I've tried to REPLY to the latest note in a
    topic, the previous note is placed in the edit buffer.  I think CAM
    has had some bad shrooms.  Better take it to detox for a bit.
    
    	--dan'l

    Kawk...
    
    Q U I T   !!!!
    
    This is an unecessary waste of disk space !!  ;^)
    
    BG

    
    Kwah get a life will ya!! 8^))
    
    
    Steve

    Might the moderators want to consider setting the conference notice to
    "NCAA Tournament Updates in Topic 9"?
    
    
    py

Good suggestion....

It's been implemented....


8^)

    
    Well folks it seems that we are seeing the pendelum theory in action.
    Because of incidents that occured because of too much leniency we seem
    to be getting moderation at the other extreme. 'Saw note in 235 that
    enhanced moderation could lead SPORTS to love its distinctive flair and
    flavor and I think that in just 1 day this has started to happen.
    
    I do moderate note conferences, and yes explosions of one sort or
    another have happened, no it is not alway pretty. Generally speaking we
    are dealing with rational and reasonable adults and with a little bit
    of effort things get cleared up pretty quickly. I would hate to see
    SPORTS start to look more and more like the DIGITAL note conference
    that is moderated to the extreme, yet I fear that may be happening.
    I have found that conferences such as DIGITAL are good for RON, but not
    worth the effort in joining the discussion. I hope that does not happen
    in SPORTS.
    
    Maybe I happen to be lucky that no one ever went ahead and got
    management and/or personnel involved; maybe management was contacted
    and Inever even knew about it; maybe my management is enlightened in
    this area.
    
    Yoseff - The Crazy Met
    

    The reminders to tone things down have come more frequently of late. 
    Noters seem to revel in pushing the limits of the conference policy and
    the moderators' patience lately.

    Mods,
    
    Please define "junk noting."  Obviously, a note that mentions a sport
    or is obviuosly sports-related to the writer can still be considered a
    junk note and be deleted.  Either that or water polo isn't a sport.
    
    Thanks.
    
    	--dan'l

    I have moderated a conference or two in the past (not that I really
    knew what I was doing) and I have to come to the SPORTS mods in
    defense.
    
    These are weird times in DEC now. Some folks are spending their time
    just looking for things to point to and label as "fat". Employee
    interest notesfiles have been brought up at the highest level in this
    company many times as a waste of resources and a forum for offensive
    docussions.
    
    I commend the mods for trying to keep this forum open so that we can
    continue to enjoy it. I am sure that when notes are deleted by the mods
    they are sent back to the writer with an explanation as to why it was
    deleted. I think we should try and understand where these guys are
    coming from and appreciate their efforts.
    
    And, Dan'l, quite frankly, junk notes are things like discussions of
    music in the SPORTS note. Actually, I enjoyed what was discussed in
    that note but, at the same time, I realize that times are different now
    and we all need to approach and analyze events a little differently.
    
    Usually, when things start getting really out of hand, we get a gentle
    reminder from 'Saw to clean things up. That should be enough.
    
    RoM

    I think we should just ride this current tide out.  A few of the
    "regulars" know what's going on through recent E-mails.  I advise 
    those who haven't a clue to what prompted this complete turn-around to
    just be patient.  IMO, you're better-off not knowing.  It's ridiculous
    anyway, and not the mods' faults either.  Trust me.  Those that do
    know the details should know better just to leave it alone in here, for 
    now anyway.
    
    I predict this'll all blow over, and ::sports will be ::sports once
    again.  For now, let's not question or criticize the mods...
    
    Hawk
    

    re:.28
    
    > Usually, when things start getting really out of hand, we  get a
    > gentle reminder from 'Saw to clean things up. That should be enough.
    
    Agreed, but that is not what is happening.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    re: .29
    
    Hawk, not sure I completely agree there, and I have seen some mail of
    what was going around, though probably not all of it.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Don't get me wrong.  I am in full support of the new ideology in SPORTS
    and expressed this support in a mail message.  It is the right track to
    take, and well before the decree went out I myself have been more
    focused in keeping things in line.

    However, I just want a clarification of what constitutes a junk note. 
    Obviously, entering a bunch of non-sports-related info and then saying
    something like, "I bet the guys who play for the Packers would like
    this album too," is a junk note.

    However, when you are discussing something and keeping it
    sports-related (i.e. not forcing a sports phrase into your note) and it
    still gets deleted, you gotta wonder where the line is drawn.  I'm
    asking the mods, for everyone's understanding and before people get too
    irked to be rational, for a clear definition.

    Only moderators need reply.  Thanks.

    	--dan'l

I appreciate everyone's comments, bitches, and complaints.

Let me make one thing crystal clear here:

	I am not any more happy about this than any one of you.
	People are quick to bitch about consistency in moderation
	and stuff like that when their butt is not the one that
	is on the line.   I happen to value my job, enjoy my job,
	and enjoy working for this company, and I'll be damned if
	I'm going to jeopardize that because one or two noters
	aren't mature enough to stop when told to stop.


That said, as a noter, I'm not pleased, and I hope that in a little
while, we can open things up a little more, and get back to what we
all know and love about SPORTS.  I'd like that very much.


In the meantime, think about what it is you've lost, and WHY.  And 
the next time you all have the opportunity to go back to the SPORTS
Tavern, you might think twice about the way you act, and you might
think twice about the way some of the other patrons act, and perhaps
a word or two in support of the owners/bartenders/bouncers (moderators)
might be in order, when they are dealing with those little flare ups...


And finally, I'm sure that you all, were you in this particular situation,
would be doing the same thing.....


'Saw

    TCM, one of the problems is that the "friendly reminders" haven't been
    working.  The friendly reminders have been occurring much to frequently
    IMO as well.
    
    This decision isn't an easy one for the moderators to make and enforce. 
    The enforcement in fact is making this conference a lot more work to
    run than it should.

    re .29, .31
    
    I support the mods in their action, I've just become a (deputy)
    moderator in another conference that lost a lot of noters through the
    actions a a couple (no joke). So I understand where the mods are coming
    from.
    
    Please ride the wave out.
    
    The Doc

    Interesting...  To have this kind of thing happening when I haven't
    been participating is truly scary.  I say let the MOD SQUAD do their
    job, after all, like Saw said, if it were you you'd be doing the same
    thing.
    
    Big Game
    
    P.s.  What the heck happened to trigger this anyhow

    re. last
    
    >>P.s.  What the heck happened to trigger this anyhow
    
    Yeah, I feel a little clueless, too.  It's a little hard to know what
    not to do if you're not quite sure what that is.  
    
    "...don't know when to stop..."  is sorta vague.  Not to grouse about
    this "reinforced policy action" or whatever it is
    (I mean, my world, alas, doesn't revolve around participating in this
    conference, so being slightly confused about the issue at hand isn't
    weighing THAT heavy on my mind)--but it'd be helpful to have a little
    more detail.  Surely simply junk noting isn't a violation of corporate
    policy, (but who knows)?  Or should we assume somebody said something
    offensive and continued to be offensive even when asked to stop?  That
    makes things MUCH more clear.  ("oh, aha, this makes more sense!")
    
    I don't read every note.  If there was a conflagration going on
    somewhere, that would have made All Obvious to me, I  missed it.  
    So coming back in and noticing the screws have been firmly attached it
    a little puzzling.  Not unbearable, just confusing.
    
    Not looking for a scoop, or a stick to beat the MODS with, or anything
    like that.  Just a clue.  
    
    
    kimBO
    

If we were at liberty to say what happened, we would have.  However, some
things are just not grist for the public mill.


For the time being, we are being very harsh on junk notes.  If it makes
any of you feel better, *I* have the record for most notes deleted by
Mac the Mod so far....8^)


Hang in there with us.  Talk Sports, and thing's will be find until we
can navigate to a more normal course on this choppy high sea we call
Digital....

okay?


'Saw

    It's very simply really.  There are basically 2 sets of rules which
    govern what can and can't go in a notesfile.  Those set by Personnel
    and those set by the moderators.  Both of these policies were stated up
    front when the conference opened.  We have been traditionally lenient
    in the policies which the moderators set.  Because of this we have been
    burned.  When we do try to enforce a policy we are met with "what about
    note such and such".  Noters seem to want the policies to stay gray
    until we have to step in and enforce them, then they want them black &
    white.  So, to stop the influx of mail when moderator action is taking,
    we are going to black & white interpretation.
    
    Notes conferences are used to discuss specific topics.  This one was
    set up to discuss the world of sports.  Not your lovelife, not TV
    shows, not music, etc.  There are plenty of other conferences out there
    on the net to discuss many of these other topics.

    In the Mods defense, there has been a lot of recent "testing" of the
    system.  Exhibit A is the Joke note with all the sundry predictions on
    when the mods would delete the note.
    
    Hawk, what's this "regular noters" crap?
    
    Mark.

    It's unfortunate that anyone's butt has to be on the line because of
    the actions of others.  I've junk noted too, but I got to agree with
    the mods.  It's their call, and in reality it is for the best of this
    conf.  We've all seen notes in the past whereby this conf was slammed
    because of things like junk.  
    
    Sing me as,  
    
    "One vote for the Mods"

    Inveterate junk noter though I am, I don't miss the junk noting
   all that much. I liked the discussions on the movies, tv, books
   and music but the flame wars and the tales of conquest I could 
   do without. As far as the mods go, they're under appreciated.
   There were times in here when being a mod seems to be like baby-
   sitting. You tell them don't do it and they say "OK" and five min-
   utes later they're doing it again. 
   
    

    I'm glad none of you read the conferences I moderate

    Why, do you give out a tape to everyone who behaves?  (ha ha)
    

>    Why, do you give out a tape to everyone who behaves?  (ha ha)
    
    Don't have to, not that its music that would make them behave anyway.
    I only moderate 1 music-related conference.  Besides, I only offered
    free tapes to SPORTSters.  Everyone else covered the cost of the tape
    at a minimum.
    
    Mike

    I was kidding Mike...

      I think this is turning into a junk note