Conference 7.286::macintosh

    
    I've heard in several places about the problem with caches being turned
    of with the 7.6.1 update. You seem to have about a 10% loss in speed
    with the update installed...if the reports are correct, I'd expect a
    7.6.1 Update 2 (or some other crazy numbering) from Apple very soon.
    
    Mario

    I find all this very depressing.  On the one hand, I'm involved
    with very nasty meetings trying to keep my school Mac based
    and getting them install Mac/AppleShare rather than Pentium/NT
    to run a new network.

    On the other hand, my machine crashes or hangs with 7.5 and up, with
    no fix in site.  We're looking to do a presentation using
    the computers at town meeting...I can see it now.
    bob

    If you are having a demo, then my best suggestion is to do a clean
    install on the demo system, and install the absolute minimum number of
    INITs needed for the demo.
    
    From time to time I do house cleaning on my Mac (usually because I'm
    having problems) by doing a clean install on a different partition and
    then only copying over my essential INITs (the ones that have been with
    me for years).
    
    It is similar to a diagnostic session where you disable some INITs, but
    because you are starting from a clean install, and you are copying over
    the minimum number of preference files (if possible reconfig the INIT,
    rather then copy its preference file), you are making sure it is not a
    corrupt file you are dealing with.
    
    If the minimum trusted INITs does the trick, I then copy over a few
    more 2nd level INITs, etc... until everything is over, or I start to
    die.  Then I narrow down the search.
    
    Of course if the minimum trusted causes problems, I go back to an Apple
    ONLY install and do INIT isolation work from there.  
    
    Usually that cleans up the problem, even if I can't actually identify
    the offending software component.
    
    					Bob Harris

    Well on mny new 9500/200, 7.6.1 works fine but the Epson driver freezes
    the system completely, and my PPP modem setup has been hosed.
    
       erik 

    Reinstalling the Epson driver and then OT/PPP 1.0 fixed everything.
    I haven't had a crash yet to test the new anti-Error 11 salve they
    put in.
    
       erik

    Not sure where this belongs...
    A while back I wrote about a neighbor who upgraded his 6400/180
    to 7.6 and the modem stopped working.  I got back to 7.5.3 and did
    the upgrade again successfully.  He called this morning saying
    the modem is not working again the same way.  But this time he
    had been using it the day before and had not changed anything.

    He noted one other strange thing...perhaps someone has a suggestions.
    He ran the disk firstaid tests and it reported his HD needed
    repair.  (and maybe that's the problem).

    So he rebooted from the 7.5.3 Performa CD (or maybe from the 7.6
    CD, not sure) and this time when he ran the test it said his HD
    was fine....OK.  He rebooted from the HD and again it said it needed
    repair.

    Does this leap out as anything you have heard of?
    thanks
    bob

    
    It doesn't leap out to me, but are you sure that when he runs Disk
    First Aid booted from the hard drive that the message says the disk
    needs repair? Or is the message just saying that _if_ the disk needs
    repair Disk First Aid will not be able to repair it because it is the
    system (boot) disk? I know you get a message when you run DFA from the
    boot device on the boot device (or on the disk that holds DFA) make
    sure your friend is not misinterpreting the message.
    
    Mario

    As I recall, one of the things that System 7.6 required was to update
    your disk drivers.  Did your neighbor do that?  The installer makes
    that one of the steps, but that doesn't mean your neighbor followed
    through, or if they have 3rd party drivers, if they upgraded them (not
    even sure if 3rd party drivers need to be upgraded).
    
    					Bob Harris

    Re .8
    
    Third-party drivers *do* need to be updated.  FWB has an updater on
    its WWW site to upgrade 2.0 or 2.0.1 up to 2.0.5, which is MacOS 7.6
    compatible.

>    As I recall, one of the things that System 7.6 required was to update
>    your disk drivers.  Did your neighbor do that?  The installer makes
>    that one of the steps, but that doesn't mean your neighbor followed
>    through, or if they have 3rd party drivers, if they upgraded them (not
>    even sure if 3rd party drivers need to be upgraded).

    I assume the second time he did the upgrade, he carefully
    followed all the steps.  but his machine is a new 6400/180 with
    1.6GB Apple IDE drives.  No third party drivers.  (at least I assume
    if it has the IDE drive from Apple, its an Apple Driver).
    bob

System 7.6 uses one more flag bit in the volume info block than previous system
versions.  Old versions of Disk First Aid (and Norton Utilities, etc.) check to
make sure this (reserved, or so they think) bit is set to zero.  Make sure the
neighbor's using the Disk First Aid that came with 7.6, even when booting off
the CD.  (The easiest way to do this is to put Disk First Aid on a floppy.)

-Doug

>System 7.6 uses one more flag bit in the volume info block than previous system
>versions.  Old versions of Disk First Aid (and Norton Utilities, etc.) check to
>make sure this (reserved, or so they think) bit is set to zero.  Make sure the
>neighbor's using the Disk First Aid that came with 7.6, even when booting off
>the CD.  (The easiest way to do this is to put Disk First Aid on a floppy.)

    That sounds like it must be it.

    but I just called him and he says he ran Disk First Aid
    from the 7.6 CD both times....before booting from it, and 
    after making it the startup disk.  He also said he booted from
    the HardDrive with extensions off and it still reported
    errors.  It just does not report errors when you boot
    from the CD.
    bob

    Any of the extremely fragile (in my experience) performance boosters
    (SpeedDoubler, RAMDoubler, etc) installed on this neighbor's system?
    
    Performa 6400's are amongst those Alchemy-based systems which lose
    their L2 cache with 7.6.1. Not sure why this would have any bearing 
    on disk first aid reported problems though.
    
       erik

>     <<< Note 958.13 by CIRCUS::GOETZE "Tibetan karma not Made in China" >>>
>
>    Any of the extremely fragile (in my experience) performance boosters
>    (SpeedDoubler, RAMDoubler, etc) installed on this neighbor's system?

    Nope...
    
>    Performa 6400's are amongst those Alchemy-based systems which lose
>    their L2 cache with 7.6.1. Not sure why this would have any bearing 
>    on disk first aid reported problems though.

    Right....I guess I left this part out.  Maybe its important...??
    He upgraded to 7.6.1, and immediately noticed a serious slow down
    in computer speed.  (like, typing in a Term Emulator, there was a
    significant lag from key press to appearance of the character...I have
    the exact machine running 7.6.1 and hardly notice the difference)

    He was contemplating how to go back to 7.6 when he read in
    www.macfixit.com that you could just copy the old system file
    into your system folder and it would return you to 7.6 with your
    L2 cache...and he did that.  but after this he ran for a while...like
    a whole day, dialing in to the internet, etc. etc.  That night (last
    night) he shut the machine down like normal, and this morning
    his modem no longer worked....so he ran disk firstaid and starting
    wondering about this other puzzle.
    bob

    Regarding my earlier note about the GeoPort Modem not working
    in my neighbor's 6400/180....

    My neighbor figured out what was wrong.  He says this was most likely
    the problem both times (when he originally upgraded to 7.6, and when
    he upgraded to 7.6.1).

    After doing the upgrade, at some point he turned off the Shared Library
    extension, since (from the desctiption) is sounded like you only needed
    it for 68K Macs (and there is a Shared Librayr PPC).  I guess the modem
    uses it, and after turning it off, the next time he tried using the
    modem (some time later) it no longer worked....

    I've read about this in various notes from Apple and Evangelist reports.
    but I never read any concrete examples of what uses the old 68K library.
    bob

    Again from MacFixit...the performance problem with 7.6.1
    seems limited to systems with the Alchemy Motherboard.
    (like the 6400 and many clones).

    Although its generally listed as 'turning off the cache', and
    I guess that is what is claimed by MacBench, owners of
    cacheless 6400 have described VERY big performace losses
    after installing 7.6.1.  So it sounds like there is something
    seriously wrong with the disk access code.  Maybe it only looks
    like the cache is not there because of the way the disk acces
    code works.  I dont know how MacBench tests for the cache other than
    measureing the speed of operations that would force hits or misses.
    bob

    I installed 7.6 and pretty quickly installed 7.6.1.  so its hard
    for me to know whether problems I'm seeing are due to the update or
    7.6 itself.  Or due to some extension that conflicts, although
    I have a pretty vanilla flavored PPC...few additional extensions.

    We're seeing a VERY repeatable problem with Netscape Mail...after
    sending/forwarding a few messages, the 'address book' no longer
    seems to work.  You cannot pickup and drop an address at all.
    Shortly after that, Netscape crashes...Error Type 3.  You can
    restart netscape without a reboot.

    I've dont this 3 or 4 times, repeatedly.

    I dont know if this is due to 7.6, or due to the fact I have the
    Alchemy board with the cache/disk access problem.

    Any other experience out there?
    bob

    I have heard of 2 performance problems related to 7.6.1.  The first is
    the Alchemy motherboard based systems having the memory cache disabled. 
    These are the systems that Apple currently says that you should not
    install 7.6.1 on, so Apple has given warning.  If you have a clone, the
    one clone I know about is the PowerComputing PowerBase.  I do not know
    about Motorola or UMAX (I don't think Motorola uses the Alchemy
    design).
    
    The 2nd is that on some systems, installing 7.6.1 seems to have lowered
    the disk cache in the Memory control panel to something like 64K. 
    Raising the cache back up to its previous value or something reasonable
    corrects the problem.
    
    Note:  After reading about this, I quickly checked my system and in my
           case the Disk cache was not touched.  So your milage may vary.
    
    I do not notice disk I/O performance all that much.  I spend more time
    accessing the net then I do reading disk.
    
    					Bob Harris

    My disk cache size was not touched in the mem control panel.

    Before doing the upgrade, I made a copy of my 7.5.3 system folder,
    and I've returned to using it.  Maybe I'll try the upgrade
    again when all this settles down.  A repeatable dump out of netscape
    mail was the last thing I needed.

    You are right...Apple recommends trying to undo the 7.6.1 upgrade
    if you have the Alchemy mother board.  Note they dont really say
    which computers have it, and I dont know of any way to really tell.
    I did not know the 6400 had an 'alchemy motherboard' until all this
    came up.

    And they dont really say 'You should undo 7.6.1'...they say if you
    want your cache back, undo it'.  Since I wanted the performance
    improvements of 7.6.1, I was chosing to live with the loss of performance
    for a little while.  But its more than just 'no cache'.

    Apple does not need this kind of screw up right now.  The net seems
    FULL of conflicts and problems people are having with 7.6.1.

    I cant help but wonder if some of the problems are due to the change
    in disk first aid....(someone mentioned that a new bit is now being used
    that used to be always 0).  I admit I dont really pay attention to which
    version of disk first aid I use to 'verify/repair' my HD.  So if I use
    the old version, I may be clearing a critical bit.  Just before swapping
    back to 7.5.3, I did a verify and it reported that my disk needed repair.
    I switched System Folders making the 7.5.3 folder my blessed systerm folder
    and rebooted and again did 'verify'...and it said it was okay.  And I
    did not do a repair in between...and I used the same version of firstaid.
    bob

> someone mentioned that a new bit is now being used that used to be always 0

That was me.  It's described in Tech note 1090: Mac OS 7.6
<http://devworld.apple.com/dev/technotes/tn/tn1090.html> under the section
"Other File Manager Changes"

Quoting the relevant section:

Note:
           Copies of Disk First Aid earlier than version 7.2.3
           assume that kBootVolumeInconsistent [the new bit  -Doug]
           is reserved and should be zero and incorrectly report the 
           volume as damaged when it is probably not damaged and
           instead was only unmounted incorrectly. 

-Doug

    My disk cache was reset to 96KB, on two different machines.
    
    So far, I have nothing but praise for 7.6.1. In the last few days
    I have not experienced a single crash on 8500/120 or 9500/200, and 
    I use my machines a lot. Before (with 7.5.5) I was getting a lot of 
    crashes--error 11. However I did notice that system memory usage does 
    climb with Netscape 4PR3--to the point where I was up to 40MB for my 
    system (its usually around 18MB). But I'd trade that for crashes anyday.
    
       erik

    From: <http://www.macresource.pair.com/> 14-Apr-1997
    
    Monday, April 14, 1997: Apple Tech Support has posted the following
    update to the disabled L2 cache thread: 
    
        A problem was found on Power Macintosh 5400 and 6400 computers with
        an L2 cache. This problem will also occur on Mac OS-compatible
        computers based on the same logic board with L2 cache. 
    
        After the installation of Mac OS 7.6.1, the L2 cache is
        inadvertently turned off. This is an existing problem with Mac OS
        7.6 and with the 54XX/64XX Update extension installed. 
    
        Apple is aware of this problem, and is working on a solution. As a
        temporary workaround, customers can reinstall Mac OS 7.6. After
        Installing Mac OS 7.6, do not add the extension: '54XX/64XX Update
        version 1.1,' as this extensions will also disable the L2 Cache.
        
        

    Actually I've found one more problem--ARA doesn't work at all, and
    secondly AppleTalk is broken on my work 8500. I'm wondering if it is
    related to the non-release of a new Ethernet driver that was rumored
    for inclusion in 7.6.1.
    
       erik

from www.macfixit.com (or is it www.macfixit.pair.com)...

"There is a problem with the ethernet driver and PCI Power Mac's. Thbis 
problem existed in 7.5.3 and 7.5.5, but it was made worse in 7.6... 
suggestion is to copy the V1.0.3 "Ethernet (Built-In) driver from a 7.5.5 
[or 7.5.3?] system."

I expect that 7.6.1 includes rthe 7.6 driver.

re ARA...

I don't know your situation, but there is some info in the OT/PPP release 
notes to the effect that ARA shouldn't be installed over OT/PPP. Instead, 
install ARA and then install OT/PPP over it (this from memory - if possibly 
relevant, then consult the appropriate release notes directly).

    Thanks--I have to have AppleTalk working to work. I vaguely recalled
    seeing some of the notes, now I know where to start.
    
       erik

    some information from a 'Classic Mac' distribution:

    although Apple is claiming 7.6 can be installed on any 68040
    or PowerMac, the real requirement is that it can be installed
    on any '32bit Clean' machine.  So you cannot install it on a Mac
    that requires Mode32, but many 68030 machines are okay.

    also, more interesting to me....someone put in a note that they
    had installed 7.6 and at first it worked fine but then started
    acting very flaky.  They realized that it started 'acting up'
    right after they enabled 'Window Shade', so they turned WindowShade
    back off and all their problems went away.

    After going back to 7.5.3, I have reinstalled 7.6 and disabled
    WindowShade and so far, it appears VERY stable.  I'm not about
    to turn WindowShade back on to test this out (although I like it).

    Anyone with related experiences?
    bob

    Well my 7.6.1/8500 AppleTalk problem continues, even though I've 
    gone back to Ethernet-Built-in-1.0.2. This whole problem may have 
    started when I installed Netscape 4PR3 (thanks to Netscape Conferencing 
    I now have what must be an obsolete EtherTalk Phase II extension), 
    or it may have started with 7.6.1. I guess I'll do the usual 
    debugging steps. Argh! 
    
       erik

I don't have any sort of EtherTalk extension  on my system, which runs 
AppleTalk, DECnet, and TCP/IP just fine (under 7.5.5).

When you say that AppleTalk is broken on your 8500, define broken. What 
sorts of things do you see when you bring up the AppleTalk control panel (in 
Advanced mode, selected via the Edit menu)? Any chance of a loose 
connection?

And this hot off AltaVista...

from comp.sys.mac.com: "...Turned out AppleTalk was locked. That's why it 
could not be turned on. Unlocking it solved the problem." (in reply to query 
re AppleTalk/MacOS 7.6.1 broken).

To get at the lock state, you have to set user mode to Administration via 
the edit menu. Then you should see lock icons to the right of the "Current 
zone" and "AppleTalk address" lines. The icons should show an open padlock.

    Broken = no matter what media type I choose: printer port, Ethernet
    built-in, Ethernet in slot C1; when I go to save the configuration,
    I get this error: An error occurred attempting to use <mediatype>
    TCP/IP is working so I know that at least one of the Ethernet cards
    is connected. Visually I can't see any sign of disconnection.
    
    I checked, and it was not locked per the usenet note.
    
    I've tried Ethernet-built-in 1.0.2 and there is no difference with it.
    
       erik

    I should have added that it can see the zone name that each
    Ethernet card is in--which told me awhile ago that there wasn't a 
    disconnection problem.
    
    So I tried installing the new Ethernet-built-in 1.0.5 beta--no change.
    
           erik
    

Maybe you should try removing the ethernet card from C1 (unless your 9500 is 
similarly configured) though I assume the 8500 was running with this 
configuration before the upgrade.

What sort of card is in C1? Did it come with a driver (that might require 
updating)? Card & driver both qualified for the 8500? Blah, blah...

And just FMI (for my info), what do you use 2 ethernet connections for?

Try tossing "AppleTalk Preferences" from your Preferences folder.

    Yes, everything was working when in 7.5.5 land. Printing, filesharing,
    ARA, Timbuktu all worked great. Well there was those dialy crashes but
    that was 7.5.5's instability, I think. My 9500 has only the built-in
    Ethernet.
    
    It's an AsanteNIC PCI Ethernet card, I just updated the driver to 2.2 from 
    2.0. I just ran Norton Disk Tools for good measure, and updated FWB from
    2.0.5 to 2.0.6. No difference.
    
    Two Ethernet connections: in this building (SRC) there are about 2-4
    network pipes in every workarea. I don't see how I could use the ATM
    networks they have, but two Ethernets I use are the corporate
    EasyTalk net, and the building's local services (color printers, etc).
    
    I tossed the AT prefs. Didn't change anything. I'm going to re-install
    a clean 7.6.1 when I find my CD.
    
       erik

    Re: .29  <I've tried Ethernet-built-in 1.0.2 and there is no difference
    with it.>
    
    I just saw this posted on the 24-Apr-1997 Mac Resoure Page
    	<http://www.macresource.pair.com/>
    
        The update to the AppleShare Client 3.7 seed 4.1 for AppleShare IP
        5.0 contains beta 7 of the Ethernet (Built-in) 1.0.5 extension for
        PCI Macs so far, so good.
    		<http://appleshareip.apple.com/appleshareip/index.html>
    
    I don't know if that will help or hurt.
    
    					Bob Harris

    Apple has a 7.6.1 L2 cache fix for the Alchemy based models.  I got
    this from the 23-Apr-1997 MacInTouch page <http://www.macintouch.com/>
    
        Apple's Level 2 cache fix is now available in the form of a patch
        extension for Power Macintosh and Performa 6360/54xx/64xx computers
        using Mac OS 7.6.1 or the "54xx/64xx Update 1.1" extension. 
        
        <http://support.info.apple.com/ftp/7.6.1/7.6.1flash.html>
        
        				Bob Harris

>     <<< Note 958.35 by UNIFIX::HARRIS "Juggling has its ups and downs" >>>
>                          -< L2 cache fix available  >-

    I upgraded to 7.6 but had problems.  7.6.1 did not help and
    slowed the machine down.

    so I copied my old 7.5.3 system folder back to my system and
    used that for a while.  But last night I upgraded again to 7.6
    and 7.6.1 an dinstalled the L2 cache fix...and it felt real solid.

    The L2 Cache test program reported my cache was working fine.

    I have stopped using WindowShade and feel that its the cause
    of some of the freezing and crashes that I had.
    bob

    re .33
    
    I installed a clean new 7.6 and 7.6.1, Asante EtherNIC, and OT 1.1.2. 
    I can now get AppleTalk to work on both Ethernets.
    
       erik

The french 7.6.1 update has just been released. It contains the L2 cache
reset extension. Ater a few hours I solved the two problems I encountered:
- WACOM ArtPad driver crashing on startup. Conflict Catcher helped to determine
  the conflicting item: TCP/IP control Panel.
  Solutions are: 
  + A new WACOM extension due any time now. (v2.5.5)
  + Temporarily move TCP/IP elsewhere (outside system folder). So far, this 
    seems to work. But I don't like that solution since there is an "INIT" 
    resource in that control panel and moving it outside System folder means that 
    this resource won't be loaded during startup. As mentioned, I did not see any 
    problem with this so far, I could use PPP w/o any difficulty.
- Speed Doubler: Despite the advised update to V1.3.2 (from v1.1) a message kept
  showing up at startup, stating that the version of S.D is incompatible with
  this version of the system.
  Altavista helped to spot one article in a newsgroup about the detailed solution
  given by a support engineer. The point is that the updated Speed Access 
  extension should have a creator of "MV21" not "MV20". Apparently, the updater
  fails to do this. ResEdit brought the solution!

On a slightly different note, the french Geoport Adapter had a problem with the
incoming calls. The latest update still shows the problem. As there is a seperate
US updater for Express Modem, I tried it and, so far, so good, it seems to work
well even with the Minitel stuff.
   
Jean-Pierre.

>The french 7.6.1 update has just been released. It contains the L2 cache
>reset extension. Ater a few hours I solved the two problems I encountered:
>- WACOM ArtPad driver crashing on startup. Conflict Catcher helped to determine
>  the conflicting item: TCP/IP control Panel.
>  Solutions are: 

Last Saturday I rebooted my system and when the Wacom Control Panel
was loaded the system crashed.  I tried it several times and it
did it every time.  I had to boot with the shift key down and then
pull the wacom control panel from the CP folder and then it booted fine.

But...I've been using 7.6.1 for quite some time and this problem just
suddenly appeared.  Perhaps my kids loaded something new or did something.

Sunday I started up the system and just for the heck of it moved the
Wacom CP back into the CP folder and rebooted...and it came up fine.

I'm puzzled.
bob

    I've been having a similar problem with the Wacom control panel.
    
    When I first got the system and installed 6.1 and the Wacom driver,
    once in a great while when it crashed the reboot would fail, crashing
    when loading the Wacom driver.  Checking the control panel showed
    that it had been damaged.  I keep a spare copy of that control panel
    in another folder, so if it happens again I can just trash the broken
    one and copy in the good one.
    
    But I haven't seen the problem in a couple weeks, which is most of
    the time I've had the machine.
    
    				Paul

Hi Bob,
The news about Wacom driver is from Friday's Macintouch report and
it was stated then that the new driver would be ready on friday's
night at ftp://ftp.wacom.com
Like you I was surprised because Wacom and TCP/IP control panels
have shared a peaceful life for months in that folder, so why all
that fuss now?
Cheers,
J-P.

    There is a update for NUM V3.2, specificaly, Norton Disk Doctor, from
    V3.2.x to V3.2.4. Under MacOS 7.6.1, this update resolves a problem
    where NDD says that the Report file is always corrupted.
    
    rtt

A new WACOM tablet driver v2.5.5 is available at 
	ftp://ftp.wacom.com
and fixes the crash during startup.
J-P.

    System: Performa 6205
    OS: 7.6.1
    Apps: FAXcilitate
    
    This is a pretty vanilla system running nothing fancy. However, since
    I upgraded I've been plagued with all sorts of intermittent system
    hangs. (This especially irritates my children when they are running
    games and such off the CD-ROM drive. :)) Has anyone else seen this
    behavior? Because the hangs are intermittent, it appears that
    troubleshooting is going to be very difficult. Do I have to go back
    and try another clean install of 7.6 and update to 7.6.1? Or do
    I chuck the whole thing and go back to the, for me anyway, relatively
    stable 7.1 environment that came with my Performa and upgrade to 7.5.5?
    Suggestions, please. Thanks.
    
    /Blaise

    Has anyone ever had a FAX application on the Mac which didn't cause all
    kinds of whacko problems?
    
       erik

    Re .45
    
    Yes.  I have.  The first fax application I ever installed was
    FAXcilitate, and it hs worked wonderfully for me.  I've had minor
    intermittent problems when it was crahed by other things, but I'm still
    using it and am very satisfied.
    
    My only complaint with the current version (2.2) is that it does not
    give up the serial port gracefully when you want to connect somewhere
    with another application.  I've worked around that by writing a short
    AppleScript that tells the FaxPreferences application to turn fax off,
    and then launches my desired application.  On exit, the FaxPreferences
    app is still on the screen, and I can click the ON radio button and
    close the window.  IT's not perfect, but it's a minor annoyance, and
    as I said, I'm very pleased overall.

>                     <<< Note 958.44 by 20263::CORCORAN >>>
>                         -< Intermittent system hangs >-
>
>    System: Performa 6205
>    OS: 7.6.1
>    Apps: FAXcilitate
>    
>    This is a pretty vanilla system running nothing fancy. However, since
>    I upgraded I've been plagued with all sorts of intermittent system
>    hangs. (This especially irritates my children when they are running
>    games and such off the CD-ROM drive. :)) 

    Some speculation....just wondering, why do you mention FAXcilitate?
    You seem to be asking about random hangs in miscellaneous apps?

    Apple has aknowledged bugs in some PowerPC models and has supplied
    a simple application called something like 5XXX-6XXX, and this
    application tests your system for certain known problems...and if your
    system has them, you can get it repaired for free.  The 'read me' with
    the application does not list the models that might have problems.  It
    does list a few that DONT....the 5400, 6360, and 6400.  It tests for
    problems that cause random hangs and for cache problems.

    the application is available from the Apple Software Update area...
    not sure if it has been uploaded to our archive.

    good luck...let us know if you figure it out.
    bob

    Bob,
    
    That 5XXX-6XXX tester is for 52XX and 62XX machines.  Blaise has run it
    on his 6205, and he doesn't have those problems.
    
    One down...  :-)

    Re: .44  -< Intermittent system hangs >-      
    
    Before going through a clean install, I would try reviewing all the
    INITs/Control Pannels that you have enabled.  Then try to disable some
    that you think you could live without (pick on the extra ones that you
    might have added, but there may be a few Apple ones that you don't want
    or need in your system).  See if the problem goes away.
    
    If disabling some INITs/Control Panels does stop the problem, now all
    you have to do is narrow down the list of disabled items to see which
    one is the problem.
    
    If you can isolate the offending item, first try to trash its
    Preferences file (assuming it has one).  Sometimes this actually cures
    misbehaving apps and/or INITs.
    
    And speaking of Preference files.  Sometimes an application will
    misbehave when its preference file get corrupted or has a setting that
    is not what it should be.
    
    Do the hangs happen with a single program the kids are using?  Or does
    it happen to lots of things?  If a single program, then try removing
    the App's preference file to a safe place and see if the application
    starts to behave itself.  If nothing changes, you can always put the
    preference file back.
    
    Also check to see if you have things turned on that you don't need. 
    If you do not have an AppleTalk network, then check to see that
    AppleTalk is not running.  If it is, turn it off.  Run through the
    other control panels looking for stuff that might not be needed and try
    turning it off.
    
    I don't think this will be related to your problem, but I like to
    disable the Apple Menu control panel's "Remember Recently Used..."
    feature.  It causes all kinds of problems in an AppleShare networked
    environment.  I don't ever recall it causing hang though, so maybe try
    it, but don't worry if it doesn't do anything different for you.
    
    If all else fails, then try a clean install.  Or if the above seems
    like more work, then try the clean install first, and the above
    afterwards.  Whichever seems the most productive of your time.
    
    					Bob Harris

>      <<< Note 958.49 by 19547::HARRIS "Juggling has its ups and downs" >>>
>                          -< Some things to consider >-

    Ah...one more thing...and VERY easy.

    I think I mentioned this before...I read someone else commenting
    that they were having all kinds of problems, and they turned off
    the 'window shade' capability.  their problems completely disappeared.

    I used to use WindowShade a lot..I really like it.  I was also having
    hangs.  I stopped using WindowShade, turned it off using the extensions
    manager so it does not even load.  And I dont hang any more.

    Not sure if you have it enabled....Try for a while without it.
    bob

    
    Try using ValueFAX from the archives (with probably much newer versions
    available on the internet.) It seems very stable.
    
    Mario