Conference smurf::buildhelp

Date Of Receipt: 	 8-JUL-1994 17:04:55.97
From: 	FLUME::jmcg "Jim McGinness"
To: 	alantam davidson odehelp
CC: 	
Subj: 	Re:  Question about a ode system within some remote sites.

In principle, you can do ode b-commands at remote sites.  We do that
between ZKO and UNX (New Jersey) all the time.  If network connectivity/
bandwidth problems make it too slow to do the b-commands over rlogin
it's unlikely that you'll be happy with the performance of doing the
b-commands over the same connections.

	-- jmcg

Date Of Receipt: 	 8-JUL-1994 18:05:55.06
From: 	FLUME::alantam "Alan Tam ISE/HongKong  08-Jul-1994 1804"
To: 	Jim McGinness <[email protected]>
CC: 	davidson@DEC:.zko.flume, [email protected], alantam@DEC:.zko.flume
Subj: 	Re: Question about a ode system within some remote sites.

Hi Jim,

>
>In principle, you can do ode b-commands at remote sites.  We do that
>between ZKO and UNX (New Jersey) all the time.  If network connectivity/
>bandwidth problems make it too slow to do the b-commands over rlogin
>it's unlikely that you'll be happy with the performance of doing the
>b-commands over the same connections.
>

I think that those two situations are different. When the traffic on the 
network is high, do ode b-commands at remote sites will lead to slow
response for b-commands only. But when we do b-commands via rlogin,
all the commands will have slow response. In certain cases, some of the
commands such as vi are different to use.

Also ZKO and UNX lie on the same time zone. But for my case, the time
zone of the sites are different. So I think I cannot just export
the /usr/sde to those sites to make a ode system.

BTW, is there any document/information about setting ode system among 
remote site?

Thank you.

Alan Tam

Date Of Receipt: 	 8-JUL-1994 22:53:09.92
From: 	FLUME::jmcg "Jim McGinness"
To: 	alantam@DEC:.zko.flume
CC: 	odehelp@DEC:.zko.flume
Subj: 	Re: Question about a ode system within some remote sites.

UNIX keeps internal time by the UCT (formerly GMT) clock, so NFS
file systems can be exported without any confusion.  The more recent
versions of RCS also use UCT for internal timestamps, which makes it
straightforward to share RCS trees.  Timezone differences should be
the least of your problems.

The reason I suspect the b-commands will not make you happy on a
network connection that is unsuitable for interactive use is that
there are a fairly large number of underlying transactions performed
by the ODE commands.  Other people with poor connections to ZKO have
reported that the b-commands appear to hang and it's a bit of a mess
to clean up one that gets killed.

There's no technical reason not to set things up so people can use
either method, whichever works best for them.  In the long run it will
likely be cheaper to upgrade the link than to burn a lot of people
cycles waiting for the network and cleaning up after the mistakes.

	-- jmcg

Date Of Receipt: 	 9-JUL-1994 13:23:57.69
From: 	FLUME::jmf "Joshua M. Friedman OSF/UNIX SDE"
To: 	[email protected]
CC: 	jmcg@DEC:.zko.flume, [email protected], reng@DEC:.zko.flume
Subj: 	Re: Question about a ode system within some remote sites.

Alan, we (release engineering, [email protected]) can work with you
on what you need to setup a local environment.  Actually we already
have about a dozen sites participating in development through ODE,
some in other timezones. 

You would not do any NFS mounting at all, but have a local copy
of /usr/sde, and use SUP ("software update protocol") to maintain
a copy of the submit pools that you need, locally, updated hourly.

You're correct that only the command like bco, bci, bsubmit would
require remote connectivity, and everything else like build and vi
would be local.  

The only requirement is an IP connection; DECnet cannot be used 
for this.  Does that connection exist?  (ie from your system can
you do a "ping buffer.zk3.dec.com" ?).

We can continue the discussion using the 'reng' alias and 
offload 'odehelp'. 

-josh

(p.s. Jim, thanks for the help.)

Date Of Receipt: 	11-JUL-1994 09:24:58.37
From: 	FLUME::"[email protected]" "11-Jul-1994 0923"
To: 	Joshua M. Friedman OSF/UNIX SDE <[email protected]>
CC: 	[email protected], [email protected],
	[email protected], [email protected],
	[email protected]
Subj: 	Re: Question about a ode system within some remote sites.

	just a few additional comments on remote submits. The current
	trend in the corporate network is cost reduction.  This means
	circuits being removed, and others becomming more conjested.
	
 	where it directly affects our business, we should be vocal
	about poor connectivity.

	$0.02 worth.
	/sb

Date Of Receipt: 	12-JUL-1994 01:12:56.48
From: 	FLAMBE::jmf "Joshua M. Friedman OSF/UNIX SDE"
To: 	[email protected]
CC: 	odehelp@DEC:.zko.flambe
Subj: 	Re: Question about a ode system within some remote sites.

Alan, let's get together sometime (this week?) and discuss your needs.

I understand you're sitting near Tom Woodburn.  I'll stop by sometime.

If you want to find me I'm in zk3-3/z20.

	-josh

------
From [email protected]  Fri Jul  8 18:05:18 1994
Delivery-Date: Fri, 08 Jul 94 18:05:19 -0400
Return-Path: [email protected]
Received: from flume.zk3.dec.com by flambe.zk3.dec.com; (5.65/1.1.8.2/30Mar94-0502PM)
	id AA22719; Fri, 8 Jul 1994 18:05:18 -0400
Received: from quarry.zk3.dec.com by flume.zk3.dec.com; (5.65/1.1.8.2/23May94-1035AM)
	id AA26469; Fri, 8 Jul 1994 18:04:22 -0400
Received: from localhost by quarry.zk3.dec.com; (5.65/1.1.8.2/25Apr94-0216PM)
	id AA16875; Fri, 8 Jul 1994 18:04:21 -0400
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
To: Jim McGinness <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected], [email protected],
	[email protected]
Subject: Re: Question about a ode system within some remote sites. 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 08 Jul 94 17:03:37 EDT."
	     <[email protected]> 
Date: Fri, 08 Jul 94 18:04:21 -0400
From: [email protected]
X-Mts: smtp
Status: RO

Hi Jim,

>
>In principle, you can do ode b-commands at remote sites.  We do that
>between ZKO and UNX (New Jersey) all the time.  If network connectivity/
>bandwidth problems make it too slow to do the b-commands over rlogin
>it's unlikely that you'll be happy with the performance of doing the
>b-commands over the same connections.
>

I think that those two situations are different. When the traffic on the 
network is high, do ode b-commands at remote sites will lead to slow
response for b-commands only. But when we do b-commands via rlogin,
all the commands will have slow response. In certain cases, some of the
commands such as vi are different to use.

Also ZKO and UNX lie on the same time zone. But for my case, the time
zone of the sites are different. So I think I cannot just export
the /usr/sde to those sites to make a ode system.

BTW, is there any document/information about setting ode system among 
remote site?

Thank you.

Alan Tam

Date Of Receipt: 	12-JUL-1994 10:59:44.62
From: 	QUARRY::alantam "Alan Tam ISE/HongKong  12-Jul-1994 1058"
To: 	Joshua M. Friedman OSF/UNIX SDE <[email protected]>
CC: 	odehelp@DEC:.zko.quarry, alantam@DEC:.zko.quarry
Subj: 	Re: Question about a ode system within some remote sites.

Hi Joshua,

Should we discuss at tomorrow morning 11:00 am in your office?

Alan Tam