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Conference vaxuum::document_ft

Title:	DOCUMENT T1.0
Notice:	New notesfile (DOCUMENT.NOTE) now available (see note 897)
Moderator:	CLOSET::ADLER

Created:	Mon Feb 09 1987
Last Modified:	Thu Oct 31 1991
Last Successful Update:	Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:	897
Total number of notes:	4397

471.0. "Page Breaks in Funny Places" by 10011::FRANKOVICH () Fri Jun 05 1987 13:05

    Most of the time I think Document creates splendid looking pages,
    but every so often it breaks pages in places that look really dumb
    and play havoc with the sense:
    Case 1:
    Commands that specify hardware to be tested include:
    <list>(simple)<le>SELECT
    PAGEBREAK(!)
    <le>DESELECT
    <endlist>
    Splitting a 2 line list is hardly good practice.  And now for case
    2:
    Commands that control the execution of diagnostic programs are:
    PAGEBREAK(!)
    <list>(simple)<le> etc.
    Putting a (keep)qualifier on a list wouldn't prevent case 2.  What
    I really would like would be a <nobeak><endnobreak> tag to control
    these problems.  Using <page> to force a break could really mess
    up pagination.
    Or am I missing something in the documentation that some of you
    know about?--Emily Frankovich Grendl::frankovich

T.R	Title	User	Personal Name	Date	Lines
471.1	Widows and Orphans	COOKIE::WITHERS	Le plus ca change...	`Fri Jun 05 1987 13:20`	19
	The first line of a paragraph or list, followed by <pagebreak> followed by the rest of the paragraph or list is known as a widow. The bulk of a paragraph or list, folloed by <pagebreak> followed by the last line of a paragrapgh or list is known as an orphan. While other text processing systems have mechanisms to protect you from these (eg, .SET PARAGRAPH 0,5,2) and some make you go to great lengths to get widows and orphans if you REALLY want them (eg, TeX), there appears to be no way to prevent DOCUMENT from giving you these features gratuitously. Lord knows, Rose has tried to help me eliminate them (and thanks Rose!). BobW
471.2	2 wishlist items	CLOSET::ANKLAM		`Mon Jun 08 1987 09:59`	6
	More user control over page breaking via a runoff-like .testpage is on the wishlist, as is work around page-breaking in lists. -patti anklam
471.3	You'll get me into trouble with .testpage	COOKIE::JOHNSTON		`Mon Jun 08 1987 14:26`	18
	RE: .2 Gee, what I really want is to not have to test pages for widows and orphans. Do it for a list on page 1, and I'll guarantee you'll have to do it for the list on page 2, then page 3, ...the problem only multiplies. It's one of the things I hated about DSR. I finally got smart and coded all my lists with .testpage, but I resented the heck out of having all the extra code hanging around in my file. Can't DOCUMENT be made to handle this automatically? I would think that wanting widows or orphans in particular cases is the exception, and if necessary a switch could be provided for that. Readily admitting that I don't know the implementation issues, Rose
471.4	will try not to make it too rough	CLOSET::ANKLAM		`Mon Jun 08 1987 16:17`	14
	yes, I meant to imply that in addition to providing some test-page facility, we would also look at whether the page breaking can be handled better automatically. It's a very difficult implementation task. Here's just one example: if you make a 'rule' that a page break cannot occur in a list until after the 2nd list element, then you can get reasonable results from a list like: 1. item 2. item 3. item But what do you do if each list item contains a couple of paragraphs?
471.5	Automatic page breaks for lists	10011::FRANKOVICH		`Tue Jun 09 1987 16:04`	8
	If you want automatic page-breaking which would be nice, can't Document count lines rather than <le> entries. Then it could never break a list in chunks smaller than 4 lines. It also seems to me that Document ought never to break a page after a colon as in "The following commands control output:" This is one of the more horrendous breaks I've been getting with my lists.--emily F
471.6		AUTHOR::WELLCOME	Steve	`Tue Jun 09 1987 17:04`	4
	RE: .5 Ditto on the page break after colon problem....