Conference ulysse::rdb_vms_competition

    The last Rdb vs. Oracle fact sheet I have was put out by Mike Booth and
    is more than three years old. Since I never clean out my competitive
    file :-) I have a copy and can FAX it to you if you would like. It's
    for Oracle V6.0.

    I also have a rather long document (82 pages) from Oracle (I think the
    IM Partners program distributed this) regarding their "CRUSH Rdb"
    campaign. This one dates from 8/91.  Here is an overview of its
    contents:

    What's New in Rdb V4.0 and V4.1
    TPC Removes RDB VAXcluster Benchmark
    Rdb Licenses Aren't Free
    Rdb Futures
    Competitive Update - SQL/Services for Rdb
    Competing against Trifox
    DECforms/DECwindows Coesxistence Programs
    The High Five - Oracle's VMS Technology Strengths
    Crush Rdb Advertising Unveiled


    - Hope this helps,

    - Barry

The marketing people are doing absolutely nothing on Rdb competitive
info.  Engineering folks (Evan Bauer and myself) have done some
competitive work as background tasks.  What I haven't been able to find
is enough background task time to do the final cleanup and make the
information available widely.

There are slides from the IM Partners meeting and they are supposed to be
on-line accessible to IM Partners, but we've had trouble getting the
directory set up.  Maybe by early next week....

For non-partners, I'm still trying to figure out what to do (in my spare
time of course) since I don't consider the material "cooked" enough to
give unrestricted net access.

Hal

	; The marketing people are doing absolutely nothing on Rdb
	; competitive info.  Engineering folks (Evan Bauer and myself)
	; have done some competitive work as background tasks.  What I
	; haven't been able to find is enough background task time to
	; do the final cleanup and make the information available
	; widely. 

If I have a job with this customer after October 1st I will 
be part of a team redesigning an application system based 
on Rdb to one that will be based on either Sybase or Oracle
(because it needs to be rewritten anyway, not merely because
it is based on Rdb).  I may be able to meaningfully contribute
to your efforts then if you'll have me.

	; There are slides from the IM Partners meeting and they are
	; supposed to be on-line accessible to IM Partners, but we've
	; had trouble getting the directory set up.  Maybe by early
	; next week.... 
	; 
	; For non-partners, I'm still trying to figure out what to do
	; (in my spare time of course) since I don't consider the
	; material "cooked" enough to give unrestricted net access. 

I could have been a partner but not feeling especially 
wanted by Paulette and hearing other partners suggest
that the program is on the decline anyway I guess I'll
have to wing it on my own (although I want into the notes
file and to get engineering presentations; I talk to
engineers and product managers on my own anyway).

Perhaps if you would be kind enough to let non-partners
share the information on request once you thought they
understood the caveats about the use and non-dissemination
of the material ?  I would love to see what a team like you
and Evan put together. 

What do you think of the idea of forming an informal
grassroots team of hardcore Rdb types who understand the
real world, perhaps in a private notes conference, to
cook up Rdb advertising that could really help Rdb and
Digital ?  Once we had some viable results perhaps we
could approach the right people, or have a united
front of for example Evan from the partners side, you
from the engineering side... and someone from every CBU, 
etc. ?

Hal: I am extremely pleased that you "understand" and don't 
dismiss me as yet another flamer, because that is of course 
not what this is about.  I only wish this dialogue had 
started earlier when I was out to Kathy's V5.1 internals 
pilot so I could have taken you to lunch and made some 
progress with these ideas...

Any thoughts ?

Regards,
rcs

    Re: .3

    >I could have been a partner but not feeling especially  wanted by
    >Paulette and hearing other partners suggest that the program is on the
    >decline anyway I guess I'll have to wing it on my own (although I want
    >into the notes file and to get engineering presentations; I talk to
    >engineers and product managers on my own anyway).

    Things have changed in the IM Partners program of late and I would
    encourage you to apply to Lin (WILBRY::IM_PARTNERS) Schimel. The
    program seems to be doing well and last months workshop was very
    effective. If you have any questions, feel free to send me e-mail.

    >What do you think of the idea of forming an informal grassroots team of
    >hardcore Rdb types who understand the real world, perhaps in a private
    >notes conference, to cook up Rdb advertising that could really help Rdb
    >and Digital ?  Once we had some viable results perhaps we could
    >approach the right people, or have a united front of for example Evan
    >from the partners side, you from the engineering side... and someone
    >from every CBU,  etc. ?

    I really like this idea (especially the CBU part of it). In fact Hal is
    already leading a competition Partners' focus group that I think is
    working on this.


    - Barry

>    I really like this idea (especially the CBU part of it). In fact Hal is
>    already leading a competition Partners' focus group that I think is
>    working on this.

Well, I tried such a focus group but the response was underwhelming.

Hal

Well,

If I recall well, it was announced at the last advisory partners con-call
(spring 1993) that product groups would have to do their own competitive
analysis and bring that to the field. This implies that the Rdb group has to do
the positioning against O, S, Ing, Inf and P.

The advisory group at that time was very sceptical if that could work because:
- engineers are not trained marketeers and
- engineers have other things to do but
I guess that we allowed this some time to settle down.

If we now have to conclude that this does not work at all (and the discussion
above is one piece of proof for that) we have to go back to find alternatives.

My top ranking for amunition to fight competitors is:
- reprints of favourable press-articles
- our SW products are mentioned in our advertisements
- successstories and references
- workable demo's and presentations, something easy to use
- competitive analysis

Henny

several years ago, for Mike Booth and Art Caufield, I shared two presentations
I wrote compaing sybase, ingres, oracle and of course Rdb; I'm the process of
updating them this and next week and will post the updated copies;

/los