Conference ulysse::rdb_vms_competition

1224.0. "ORACLE7 Seminar - My Notes and Observations" by STOHUB::DSCGLF::FARLOW (Simplify!) Fri Jan 29 1993 23:14

         Hello,
         
         I attended an Oracle seminar in St. Louis yesterday.  It was 
         the first Oracle seminar that I have attended.  I am providing 
         my observations to help you understand and compete/partner with 
         Oracle.
         
         First, my overall impression.  The presentation/demo etc was 
         very polished.  Oracle clearly understands that it makes sense 
         to invest once at a corporate level to develop a powerful 
         presentation/demo for all of its Sales Reps to use.  I was very 
         impressed.
         
         The sales rep was good at positioning and giving marketing 
         messages but was not that technical and the technical support 
         person was weak - could not handle things outside of the canned 
         demo, could not answer technical questions, and said some 
         things that left a bad impression - "ORACLE7 is being rolled 
         out very slowly because we want to try to catch as many bugs as 
         we can before we give it to customers this time"
         In the demo, the examples given to illustrate features like 
         referential integrity were not very illuminating (stupid).
         
         Overall themes:
         	o Cooperative Processing for Client Server Applications
         	o Distributed Database - allowing databases to be 
         	   partitioned among multiple systems.
         	o Simplified Database Coding
         	o The first database to have advanced capabilities 
         	   (which others have had for years)
         	o Multi-vendor environments including heterogeneous data 
         	   managers
         
         Other points:
         	o Q&A delayed until end and then it was: "That is the 
         	   end of the session but feel free to stop by and ask 
         	   questions of any of us for as long as you would like"
         	   Some questions were asked during the demos any way 
         	   and they were handled clumsily.
         	o The demo of the tools was entirely new MS-Windows 
         	   based tools that are not yet available (in Alpha 
         	   testing). A few screen prints of the existing tools 
         	   were shown in the presentation.
         	o Several slides illustrating Oracle configurations used 
         	   a VAX 4000 as the processor - some used IBM 
         	   mainframes too.
         	o With a better technical support person this session 
         	   would have been very effective - but his mistakes and 
         	   clumsiness made the audience restless and somewhat 
         	   skeptical.
         
         How to win against this seminar:
         
         Stress that ORACLE7 is a brand new release with many 
         sophisticated features that perform complicated functions - 
         two-phase commit across heterogeneous data managers, cost-based 
         query optimizer, etc.  Discuss how Rdb has had these features 
         for many years and they are robust.  Mention Oracle's history 
         of buggy software, missed delivery dates, and poor technical 
         support.
         
         During customer testimonial videos, MIS directors and others 
         consistently spoke about what the new features of ORACLE7 WILL 
         let them do or SHOULD allow them to do.  I don't recall anyone 
         talking about their actual experience with ORACLE7 - just what 
         that ought to be able to do.  Encourage customers to ask for a 
         local reference that is using ORACLE7 - and if they want 
         client/server they should ask for a client server reference 
         (this can be dangerous if you don't have one though).
         
         Discuss costs and support.  Pricing was never mentioned. 
         Address the issue of the astronomical benchmark numbers 600 TPS 
         - this has clearly evolved into quite a game between vendors 
         and does not reflect performance of real-world applications.  
         Question how easy the system is to use in the real-world not in 
         just a canned demo.  It also was not clear how a large 
         development team would be able to work on a common application.
          
         
         Detailed description of the session:
         
         The session consisted of presentations, videos, and 
         demonstrations.  The presentation was very high quality, in 
         color, done with a PC package.  From a menu, the presenter 
         could select videos to display.  
         
         The topics for the 4 hour session were:
         
         	o Downsizing to Client/Server - Benefits and Problems
         	o ORACLE7 - Cooperative-Server Technology
         	o Oracle Enterprise-Wide Solutions
         	o Questions and Answers
         
         The presentation started by talking about the needs for 
         client/server and distributed solutions.  It then positioned 
         ORACLE7 as the solution ("The World's First Cooperative-Server 
         Database").  
         
         A very impressive video was shown that had Bill Gates of 
         Microsoft, Steven Jobs of Next, John Sculley of Apple, Scott 
         McNealy of Sun, and John Young of HP endorsing ORACLE7.  
         Specific comments were made such as:
          
         Gates: "ORACLE7 provides a tremendous server database for 
         advanced client/server applications - perfect for Microsoft 
         front end tools to use".
         
         Jobs: "ORACLE7's parallel server architecture is breakthrough 
         technology that promises tremendous performance advantages for 
         applications"
         
         Sculley: "Oracle's products are very compatible with Apple's 
         style of computing in that they hide the complexities of the 
         database management technology from the developer and 
         end-user".
         
         Many favorable comments were made - it seemed to go on forever.  
         These were very specific comments about the features and 
         characteristics of ORACLE.  It was very impressive and really 
         set the stage for the audience to be responsive to the 
         presentation that was to follow.  It certainly provided instant 
         credibility which would make any claims credible.  I was 
         amazed. 
         
         The presentation then continued. ORACLE7 was positioned against 
         "Early Client/Server"  solutions.  The main theme was that 
         early client server required complex coding whereas ORACLE7 is 
         very simple.  
         
         Examples were given of ORACLE7 SQL vs "early client/server" 
         SQL.  Examples included Queries, Update Transctions, 
         Distributed Joins, referential integrity, 2PC, and use of 
         gateways that provide 2PC across heterogeneous data managers 
         (DB2, SQL/DS, RMS, HP  TurboImage).  The ORACLE code consisted 
         of simple select statements and the "early client/server" code 
         was very complicated (similar to the Oracle vs. Sybase ads).
         
         Performance benchmark slides were shown including a TPS/B 
         showing ORACLE at 315 TPS and Rdb at 194 TPS on a VAX 6560.
         
         A number of slides with a history of FIRSTs like: 
         1979 FIRST SQL Based RDBMS
         1983 FIRST RDBMS to Support Symetric  Multiprocessors
         1985 FIRST Client/Server RDBMS
         1986 FIRST RDBMS wiht Distributed Query
         1991 FIRST RDBMS certified 100% NIST Compliant
         1992 FIRST cooperative server database
          
         A demo of database features was given that included:
         	1. Distributed Query (across nodes)
         	2. Location Transparency - set up a synonym for the 
         	     remote database very similar to defining a logical.
         	3. Referential Integrity
         	4. 2 Phase commit
         
         The demo was very canned with code appearing in a window with 
         the press of a button.  One or two words were added and then it 
         was executed.
         
         On the two phase commit everything got messed up.  He tried to 
         execute the transaction and before issuing a commit he shut 
         down the system that one database was on.  Then it would not 
         reboot.  After 3 tries and 20 minutes it was back  up but the 
         transaction just hung there.  In trying to query the record a 
         message came back that a transaction was in doubt.  
         
         He backed out of the SQL shell window and then went back in and 
         executed the transaction.  It erroneously showed the account 
         balance as it would be before any transaction.  When this was 
         pointed out he said there was a bug that caused the database to 
         get reset when exiting the shell (this was probably accurate 
         but the words he used sounded bad and there was a lot of 
         snickering).  Needless to say, at the end of this demo the mood 
         had changed completely and never really got back on track.
         
         A presentation of the tools followed along with three 
         impressive testimonial videos of current Oracle customers who 
         will be using ORACLE7 - ITT Hartford, JJ Kenney Stock Brokers, 
         US West.
         
         Then the Case tools, report writers, query tools and forms 
         generators were presented.  It was rather confusing with only 
         one or two slides per tool.  It was very difficult to know how 
         they really worked or whether they were good or not.
         
         A demo of the not-yet-released MS-Windows based tools followed 
         that was okay.  I was thinking that the tools might at some 
         point be similar to Visual Basic - who knows when.  They stated 
         that they are informally planning to release the new tools at a 
         rate of one tool per month because they have learned and they 
         don't want to be swamped with customer problems with all of the 
         tools all being released at the same time.  It didn't inspire 
         confidence.  
         
         That was it.  Throughout the session people were leaving.  It 
         started with around 200 people and finished with around 100.  
         Most of the attendees were from small companies.  
         
         I was very surprised that the Oracle representatives were not 
         as skilled as I thought they would be.  However, in an area 
         with strong Sales and Support representatives, the session 
         could be very powerful and difficult to overcome.  I still 
         think that by stressing certain points, Rdb can still fare very 
         well against Oracle.
         
         I have the actual slides from the seminar .  If someone really 
         needs a copy, contact me.  Also, if you have any questions, 
         give me a call.
         
         Steve Farlow
         DTN: 445-7212  
         
            

>         First, my overall impression.  The presentation/demo etc was 
>         very polished.  Oracle clearly understands that it makes sense 
>         to invest once at a corporate level to develop a powerful 
>         presentation/demo for all of its Sales Reps to use.  I was very 
>         impressed.
         
>         The sales rep was good at positioning and giving marketing 
>         messages but was not that technical and the technical support 
>         person was weak - could not handle things outside of the canned 
>         demo, could not answer technical questions, and said some 
>         things that left a bad impression
    
    These are exactly the impressions I got when I attended an ORACLE
    seminar about six years ago (before I joined Digital).
    
    Peter