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Conference ulysse::rdb_vms_competition

Title:	DEC Rdb against the World

Moderator:	HERON::GODFRIND

Created:	Fri Jun 12 1987
Last Modified:	Thu Feb 23 1995
Last Successful Update:	Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:	1348
Total number of notes:	5438

1129.0. "Reasons to move from HP/MANMAN/IMAGE to VAX/DBMS?" by SIERAS::WALLIS (Barry L. Wallis | U.S. Production Systems Resource Center | DTN 535-4313) Thu Apr 02 1992 02:55

There is a customer running ASK MANMAN on HP. The DEC sales rep would like to
"help" them move the applications onto a VAX. However, MANMAN on VAX still uses
VAX DBMS. A high priority item for the customer is to gain access to the MANMAN
data. Allegedly, they can do this on HP via Oracle or Cognos (I guess they
supply gateways to the HP database [Turbo Image?]).

With the exception of DATATRIEVE are there any tools on the VAX which will give
them access to the DBMS data? We also have to fight the perception problem
that DBMS on the VAX is "old" technology (i.e., not relational or object
oriented). 

Also, can someone enlighten me on what database model Turbo Image is based on?


- Thanks for your help,

- Barry

Cross-posted in DBMS, RDB_VMS_COMPETITION, and HP_MIGRATION

T.R	Title	User	Personal Name	Date	Lines
1129.1	VAXATTRACT for HP Program	MRKTNG::SILVERBERG	Mark Silverberg DTN 264-2269 TTB1-5/B3	`Thu Apr 02 1992 16:53`	10
	Back in the old days, when we initiated the 'VAXATTRACT" Program for HP, we used the ASK MANMAN environment as a good indicator of the value of the migration program. There were a number of tools developed to help support the migration effort, many from 3rd party vendors. I've been away from that program for a few years now, but perhaps someone can provide a pointer to these migration tools. Mark
1129.2		NOVA::FEENAN	Jay Feenan, Rdb/VMS engineering	`Thu Apr 02 1992 17:49`	12
	As far as "old technology", besides the data model just showing the features put into the product over the last two-three years shows that it is not.... It is based on the same record subsystem as Rdb/VMS and has benefited in the same way as Rdb over the past few years in terms of performance. Also look into the reorganization facility that has been put into the product. Schema changes can be made as easy/easier than most relational systems on the market. A big plus in the real world once you get past the data model arguements. -Jay
1129.3	The customer's concerns are after the conversion	16625::WALLIS	Barry L. Wallis \| U.S. Production Systems Resource Center \| DTN 535-4313	`Fri Apr 03 1992 00:16`	22
	Re: .1 Mark, I looked at the dates on some of those notes. You really did mean the "old" days ;-). I don't think that the customer is as concerned about the migration tools as they are about tools to access the MANMAN database once it is migrated. Re: .2 Jay, I don't have any problem selling a product based on VAX/DBMS. However, I did want to accurately state the customer's concern. If we decide to go after this business, I will certainly point out Digital's investment in continuing VAX/DBMS technology. I think I'll find that this is a perception problem rather than a "real-world" problem. - Barry (teaching customers to use the right tool for the job)
1129.4	Image was similar to DBMS, but less functional	WIBBIN::NOYCE	Mar 28: time to plant snow peas?	`Fri Apr 03 1992 17:32`	7
	Does Turbo-Image have anything more than the name in common with Image, which was HP's version of the Total DBMS? Total provides a limited form of the same database model that VAX DBMS implements. In Total, as I recall, a record can either own sets, or be a member of sets, but not both. There are no relational features at all. If Turbo-Image is similar, you might find a diplomatic way to point out that the customer is advancing into the 80's...
1129.5		WILBRY::BOURDEAU	RdbStar Product Mgr DTN:264-6050	`Tue Apr 07 1992 23:23`	4
	ASK recommends a third party product called UDMS (I believe) to Access DBMS, Rdb, and RMS files. I've never seen the product, but I here it works reasonably well. I don't know the name of the company. Try your local ASK rep for additional details