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Conference ulysse::rdb_vms_competition

Title:DEC Rdb against the World
Moderator:HERON::GODFRIND
Created:Fri Jun 12 1987
Last Modified:Thu Feb 23 1995
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1348
Total number of notes:5438

1101.0. "SYBASE VS. RDB (AGAIN)" by GRIFFO::MERMEL () Tue Feb 25 1992 19:50

I am working on an opportunity in the telecom district for an Intelligent 
Data Network Controller.  One of the requirements is for a relational database
to store the network topology. 

Our customer has selected SYBASE for the corporate standard, but we are
told that for this opportunity, if we can position RDB's advantages over 
SYBASE, we have a good chance for selling RDB.  We are looking for hard
facts on why RDB would be better than Sybase in:

	Performance
	Backup availability
	Upgrades
	System availabilty
	Cost
	Development effort

Unfortunately, I cannot find any recent competive information on SYBASE, using
Sybase's latest version versus RDB.  If anybody can provide pointers to new
articles, or help with the  sell, I would greatly appreciate it!

Thanks in advance,
	Adam Mermel
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1101.1Sybase Vs. Rdb - right ?MSAM00::ZAHIRYUSOFWed Feb 26 1992 13:504
    re .0  the title of the note is misleading. Shouldn't it be -
    Sybase Vs. Rdb ?
    
    Zahir/
1101.2wrong titleGRIFFO::MERMELWed Feb 26 1992 18:494
re: .1, you are right, sorry

I corrected the title....

1101.3real poopJENNA::SANTIAGOWrite one for the GIPper 352-2866Thu Apr 16 1992 21:2547
    1. performance
    Sybase is quite poor at insert bound applications, mostly due to cache
    management; in general Sybase has problems managing larger than 14MB of
    cache (these are "Sybase's" words not mine), so any application that
    doesn't benefit from cache (i.e., update, insert intensive) will be
    quite poor;
    
    2. backup availability
    If the question is how to backup, you take image backs along with dumps
    (aka transactional snapshots from the log) to recover a database. If
    the question is availability in regards to recovery (from a backup), in
    database fixes/restores of individual tables/areas is quite difficult;
    normally I would restore the entire database.  While backup is fairly
    understood with this product, RESTORES are black magic.
    
    3. Upgrades
    Of what? the base product uses VMSinstall to create a directory tree to
    a specified location; one then edits a series of files to complete the
    install; this is not concept of 'upgrades' in the sense that images are
    patches/replace, you just get new onces.  Access to the directory tree
    (i.e., V3.2, V4.0, V4.8) is via logical name.
    
    4. System Availability
    More often than not, the 'recovery period' (the time the 'other'
    machine in a cluster will spend rolling forward the REDO log) is the
    real measure of system availability; this processs is called the
    companion server who will wake up after being granted an previously
    asked for exclusive lock, that was held by the primary dataserver.
    
    5. Cost
    ~$250K per system and up;  What's really weird is that prior to V4.8
    (and still valid today I believe) upgrade the host by adding CPUs
    doesn't increase your license cost, BUT going from a 6410 -> 6510
    (i.e., upgrading per processor performance) does. So, I would expect
    most Sybase shops to add more processors, and negatively scale their
    performance, rather then upgrading the processor and pay the money.
    
    6. Development effort
    This is an API based product; if you like 'em great, if not, too bad.
    The biggest problems customer run into is that since this API is HIGHLY
    PROPRIETARY (i.e., it's NOT SQL), making logical schema changes /
    and design changes, most often involve changing the database and
    application, since the interface between the application and server is
    a byte stream (known as Tabular Data Stream).  You change the order of
    a query and you likewise have to change the appliation as well.
    
    /los 'local Sybase honcho, thought not according to Sybase ;-)"
1101.4Can they handle large databases?COOKIE::BERENSONLex mala, lex nullaFri Apr 17 1992 01:173
One more thing:  One of the recent magazines carried a mention that
you won't find many SYBASE databases beyond 1GB because it has problems
with large databases.  No more details than that, sorry.