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Conference ulysse::rdb_vms_competition

Title:DEC Rdb against the World
Moderator:HERON::GODFRIND
Created:Fri Jun 12 1987
Last Modified:Thu Feb 23 1995
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1348
Total number of notes:5438

962.0. "Rdb DB Engine = INGRES DB Engine + what?" by TROOA::NAISH (O�4ME Paul Naish DTN 631-7280) Wed Jul 24 1991 04:50

    I've seen a note indicating that ASK/Ingres has unbundled certain DB
    features from the main DB engine product. I'm trying to help a customer
    make an apples-to-apples cost of ownership comparison of 4GL
    development on Rdb vs INGRES. What I don't want to do is mis-represent
    INGRES and need to know the other products which when added together
    equal the base Rdb engine (e.g. referential integrity). I have a copy
    of the INGRES price list which lists some of the other 'Knowledge' and
    'Object' sub-products but don't know if to add them in or not. 
    
    Any help would be appreciated.
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name		DateLines
962.1Some thoughts51847::BRUNSGAARDWho said I'm paranoid ??!?Wed Jul 24 1991 11:2135
    Well roughly speeking you would have to add almost every extras to
    Ingress to match Rdb.
    
    Rdb Comes with           
    All precompilers
    SQLMOD
    SQL Dynamic
    Pc Acces
    Tuning tools
    Administration tools
    Networks access
    Referential integrity
    
Ingres would have to match this
    casing the price to be MUCH MUCH higher than Rdb.
    Also note that While Rdb adds on to the base-engine ie new versions
    provide the new features, Ingres has started of the same line as
    Oracle, ie unbundle new features in new packages causing a price AND
    maintenance-price jump for new versions if the features are wanted by
    the customer.
    
    of another tangent is the fact than Rdb will outperform and outfeature
    Ingres in close to every detail you might think of.
    Rdb V4.0 outperformas Ingres in almost any occation but lack features
    especially around date-time.
    Rdb V4.1 will blow Ingres to pieces regarding performance (unless they
    get a row-locking feature and a MUCH MUCH improoved UNDO REDO loggin
    implemented) ad will provide date-time support and in ANSI/ISO
    compatible syntax (which Ingres is not).
    
    Hope this helps
   Lars
    
    Ps. Should you need to know anything special about Ingres always try
    the Ultrix/SQL notes conference as this is essentially Ingres-Db
962.2TROOA::NAISHO�4ME Paul Naish DTN 631-7280Thu Jul 25 1991 15:304
    Re: .1 Thanks, that information is usefull but I am still looking for
    the actual INGRES product names needed to equal as close as possible
    the capabilities of Rdb Run-Time and Rdb Development in a 4GL
    environment.
962.3CIMNET::BOURDEAURich Bourdeau CIM Product MarketingMon Aug 05 1991 20:0331
    Paul,
    
       I'm by no means an Ingres expert but here goes...
    
       The Database components that Ingres has unbundled from their Base
       engine are Knowledge and Object Manager as you stated.
    
       Knowledge Manager allows you to add rules to the database. Sim=ilar
       in function to Constraints and Triggres inside of Rdb.  If
       constraints and triggers are required then you will have to add
       Ingres Knowledge Manager to get similar funxtionality.  Knowledge
       manager also has a resource limiter.
    
       Object Manager allows you to define an object with user define
       datatypes an functions to be performed on that datatype.  For example
       Object management could be used to store Images or other
       non-traditional data types in their database.  I believe that you
       need Knowledge manager to use Object Manager, but I'm not 100% sure.
       Rdb has segmented strings, but nothing announced which competes
       directly with Object Manager.
    
       I have heard that Ingres is using the technique you described when
       selling to an ULTRIX customer.  They are trying to give the impression
       that ULTRIX/SQL is not as good as the Ingres database and that if you
       want all the features of their database you need to buy it from Ingres.
       I have not heard them using this strategy on VMS where it only
       accentuates the proce difference.  
    
       If this does not help, I second .1 suggestion to post it in the
       ULTRIX/SQL notes file where someone will be more KNOWLEDGEable
       about Ingres's KNOWLEDGE and OBKECT managers.