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Conference ulysse::rdb_vms_competition

Title:DEC Rdb against the World
Moderator:HERON::GODFRIND
Created:Fri Jun 12 1987
Last Modified:Thu Feb 23 1995
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1348
Total number of notes:5438

922.0. "Unix vs VMS" by WARNUT::BRYAN () Tue Apr 30 1991 20:25

    
  Hi, I need arguments for placing your corporate 'bet your business data'
  in Rdb on VMS as opposed to a third party database on U**X ( probably 
  Ingres on Sun ).

  Any comments gratefully received. 
 
     Arguments for VMS -

        Resilience - thru clustering
                   - thru a mature OS
                   - thru graceful error handling
                   - thru easy systems management
                   - thru volume shadowing
                   - thru real life experiences
        Proven     - lots of 'bet your business' VMS sites
        Performance- Hi throughput capabilities thru m/f
                     class I/O sub-system 
        Growth     - thru clustering
                   - thru SMP
                   - range of hardware
                   - thru I/O abilities
                   - large storage capabilities
        Flexibility- desktop to datacentre
        Richness   - enormous range of proven s/w to choose from     

     Arguments for UNIX

        Price/Cpu performance
        Percieved open-ness,portability 
        Its trendy
        ( Volume shadowing thru NFS )


   The gist is U**X is great if used appropriately, but is not yet mature 
   enough, unless your a gambling man, to confidently bet your business on it.
   The points raised above are an attempt to quantify this.
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name		DateLines
922.1We can answer the questions!KYOA::KOCHIt never hurts to ask...Wed May 01 1991 01:2121
    You make good arguments for VMS. However, SUN's points really aren't
    that strong.
    
    OPEN SYSTEMS
    ------------
    	VMS has announced POSIX compliant VMS to be delivered this year.
    This allows you to build portable applications. Is SUN going to deliver
    POSIX 1003.1, .2 or .4? They are members of UNIX International which is
    pushing SVID as the OPEN interface. SVID is SYSTEM V INTERFACE
    DESCRIPTION. Who controls SVID? UNIX International! POSIX is controlled
    by an independent authority, IEEE! Even IBM will support POSIX. Who is
    more OPEN now? Get a copy of the DISCOVERY SEMINAR - VMS OPEN SYSTEMS
    to show the customer our comittment to true open systems.
    
    Price/Performance-Is this bet your business kind of stuff? Is it 24x7?
    We have fault tolerance when they need it, we can grown when they need
    it. Can they do 2-phase commit? Can they do full distributed databases?
    Can they allocate storage areas (or pieces of it) to different disks?
    Is the money they are going to save really worth it?
    
    It's trendy. So were pet rocks. Where are they now?
922.2A few critical limitations in Ingres/U*ix solutionsBEAGLE::GODFRINDTSCG, Valbonne VBO1-2/B15 DTN 828-5163Thu May 02 1991 15:3725
>   The gist is U**X is great if used appropriately, but is not yet mature 
>   enough, unless your a gambling man, to confidently bet your business on it.

Agreed. I find myself coming and going between Ultrix/SQL (=Ingres) on Ultrix
and Rdb on VMS, and the points that strike me most as major weaknesses in the
Ingres/U*ix solution are :

- the lack of adequate database management tools : multiple error logs, no easy
  to use tool for database monitoring, extremely poor backup / restore tools.

- the presence of _one_ central transaction log common to _all_ databases makes
  it a potential bottleneck and, worse, a single point of failure for the
  complete installation. In case of trouble with that log, you lose access to
  _all_ your databases, even the ones that were not in use at the time of
  failure !

- the lack of robustness of the U*ix file system itself: after a major system 
  crash, Ingres will be able to recover your databases - but before you reach
  that point, you will first have to hope that the U*ix file system is able
  to correctly restart (and wait while it does it).

/albert

PS: About NFS - Ingres does not allow any database file to reside on an NFS
disk.
922.3NFS?WHOS01::BOWERSDave Bowers @WHOMon May 06 1991 18:572
    I wouldn't bet a beer on the reliability of volume shadowing via NFS,
    much less my business!