| re -1:
How did you know that there where any replies ? Let me guess, you
looked in th MARKETING notes-conference,( but forgot to copy over
the replies ;^) ).
/uw
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Note 1449.1 HP and Oracle - What's Right with this Picture?? 1 of 10
SUBWAY::GRAHAM "The revolution will be televised" 11 lines 15-JAN-1991 05:06
-< lessons... >-
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>What can we learn from this??
Probably get sales people to stop bashing ORACLE...and get them to work
with ORACLE where appropriate.
The days of selling VAX hardware to 'control' (whatever that means) an
account are almost over. Either we build good a multi-platform database
system, or we live with an inferior but flexible system from the bad guys.
Kris...
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Note 1449.2 HP and Oracle - What's Right with this Picture?? 2 of 10
IW::WARING "UK DECdirect Software" 7 lines 15-JAN-1991 08:09
-< IBM in on the act as well >-
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... and I got an IBM mailshot yesterday where they are promoting ORACLE on
the RS/6000, running joint seminars and suchlike.
Oracle need all the help they can get at the moment; the database market is
well down at the moment, and they laid off 80 people here a week or so back.
- Ian W.
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Note 1449.3 HP and Oracle - What's Right with this Picture?? 3 of 10
MRKTNG::SILVERBERG "Mark Silverberg DTN 264-2269 TT" 10 lines 15-JAN-1991 08:10
-< old Digital tapes being replayed >-
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We had the same, actually better, opportunity offered by Oracle, and
because of the issues that certain folks in certain groups have with
Oracle, we turned it down. I have all the literature & HP sales kit
information. How long until we recognize we can't leave money on the
table any longer? We should start humoring the customers & take their
money when they want to spend it, even if Oracle or any other 3rd party
vendor is part of the customer's demanded solution!
Mark
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Note 1449.4 HP and Oracle - What's Right with this Picture?? 4 of 10
EISKPS::SLATTERY 25 lines 15-JAN-1991 10:23
-< Another perspective >-
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Maybe I'm missing something but...
My reaction to the base note was that HP is talking out of both sides of thier
mouths.
Didn't they just announce that all thier DB stuff was going to be Ingres?
Don't they own a significant part of Ingres?
So, what should the customer choose, and what will the HP rep really choose,
Ingres or Oracle?
If the customer is a manufacturing account, should they install Oracle for
non-manufacturing and be force to use Ingres for manufacturing???
Another tact is that this is no diferent than us having competing CMPs and
SCMPs (aren't Oracle and Ingres both CMPs)??
The fact that HP will train thier salesforce is a new twist. Maybe they are
making a push to be the DB platform of choice.
Ken Slattery
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Note 1449.5 HP and Oracle - What's Right with this Picture?? 5 of 10
CGOA02::HOFFER "2+2=4 But that's only hindsight..." 15 lines 15-JAN-1991 11:22
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It strikes me that we have (on paper) all the same things that HP just
trumpeted. We can take orders for Oracle on Ultrix, we have a joint
marketing agreement with them, etc. We could announce all the same
things that HP has. The difference is that we view our relationship
with Oracle as negative, while HP has Presented theirs as positive. I
have no idea what it really is.
What I would really like to see is Rdb on every platform there is. Win
business in accounts where another hardware architecture has already
been put in place. Plus, if the customer was unhappy about
performance, we could reply that while we gaurantee the functionality
of our database, if the customer wants performance gaurantees as well
we would have to review the hardware platform...
I don't need or want anymore "deals" with Oracle.
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Note 1449.6 HP and Oracle - What's Right with this Picture?? 6 of 10
NOVA::NEEDLEMAN "no good deed goes unpunished" 28 lines 15-JAN-1991 13:02
-< DEC is a software company.... >-
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re .0
well here is one cut ;-)
1. if DEC wants to be commodity box maker then by all means, partner
with every software vendor there is.
2. That the HP database strategy with Allbase/SQL is so bankrupt that
they buy a piece of ASK Ingres and partner with Oracle
3. That the FABS CSH agreement with Oracle to co-promote Oracle
financial and train each others sales people on each others
products = HP's agreement
4. That Oracle will say and do anything as they lose to Rdb on the VAX
VMS platform, lose to Sybase on the Microsoft platform, lose to DB2
on the MVS platform and I hope lose to ULTRIX/SQL on the ULTRIX
platform
5. All of the above
Barry
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Note 1449.7 HP and Oracle - What's Right with this Picture?? 7 of 10
CALS::THACKERAY 23 lines 15-JAN-1991 14:30
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Re -.1:
Or perhaps HP are simply doing one important thing.....they are
LISTENING TO THE CUSTOMER.
If the customer already has Oracle, they are not going to buy Ingres as
well. Bye bye HP sales rep.......except, now the HP sales rep gets to
sell Oracle and at least has a slice of the pie PLUS A MARGIN ON THE
SOFTWARE and whatever services are needed.
The same goes for Digital. I can tell you, I've seen enough accounts in
which the customer has demanded Oracle and we've doggedly gone the RdB
path, and lost the business. All of it.
There has been enough said about RdB versus Oracle, but the bottom line
is still the bottom line.
If the customer wants Oracle across multiple platforms, it's generally
either deal with it on those terms, try to get as much of the business
as possible (including selling Oracle), and supporting it. Then,
perhaps, we may get more business in the future.
Ray
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Note 1449.8 HP and Oracle - What's Right with this Picture?? 8 of 10
MR4DEC::VANTREECK 10 lines 16-JAN-1991 17:41
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"We" are not in the database business. "We" are not in the hardware
leverage business. Some of you are -- not all of us. If you're in
Demmer's or LaCava's your job is to sell iron and work with any
software vendor that leverages sales of your iron. If you're in
Stone's organization you push RDB. The problem is our sales reps
haven't been told yet which business they're reporting into. They're
trying to the right thing and being confused by the mixed signal
from management.
-George
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Note 1449.9 HP and Oracle - What's Right with this Picture?? 9 of 10
LESLIE::LESLIE "Andy Leslie" 1 line 17-JAN-1991 03:26
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Demmer isn't in the iron business. At least not solely. He says so.
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Note 1449.10 HP and Oracle - What's Right with this Picture?? 10 of 10
BIGUN::ANDERSON "The Unbearable Lightness of Being" 12 lines 21-JAN-1991 22:54
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re .8
Trouble is, George, that sales people think they work for Sales (or
maybe Digital). The margin (return on investment) to Digital for
software is orders of magnitude over hardware, but we need the hardware
edge as a differientiator (when it allows us to be competitive).
Hardware can make us money but the margin seems to alter all the time,
and now trends say that we make money out of software more and more.
Does the customer see Demmer vs Stone vs X vs Y? They do, because they
see fragmentation, see stove pipes, see mixed messages, SOMETIMES.
Still its better than it used to be.
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