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Conference ulysse::rdb_vms_competition

Title:DEC Rdb against the World
Moderator:HERON::GODFRIND
Created:Fri Jun 12 1987
Last Modified:Thu Feb 23 1995
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1348
Total number of notes:5438

717.0. "Oracle/VAX sizing?" by SDOGUS::SCALES () Mon Aug 20 1990 20:16

An OEM customer of ours is building a large inventory application for one of
their customers - the end-user customer has specified an Oracle database.
The application will involve a moderately complex database composed of 70
tables, 1.5 Gbytes, 6 spindles in the existing configuration, Oracle V6 w/
TPS.  There will be approx. 250 interactive users on the system.  Our customer
is asking us for help sizing the hardware for a VMS solution. (They have made
the same request of Oracle.)  

Anyone out there have any Oracle V6 performance data which will help us
determine what size VAX will be required (no clusters, please)?
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
717.1You may be taking your life in your hands...KYOA::KOCHMy brother wishes he could retire...Tue Aug 21 1990 01:1711
	I appreciate the fact that you want to help the customer. But,
	do you like to live dangerously. Making a sizing recommendation
	for another vendor's software, especially the Big O, is not
	the kind of position I would put myself in.

	If you do recommend a solution, is Digital responsible if the
	configuration doesn't perform? Are we responsible to supply
	hardware until it does work? It may seem the right thing to 
	help out, but be wary of what your customer expects.

	I've seen it happen many times, so be careful...
717.2A rough guessMAIL::DUNCANGOracle... the one-line databaseFri Aug 31 1990 21:4452
    Hmmmm ... 1.5 gb isn't very big for 250 users.  So, I assume they
    are hitting the same tables frequently and that, perhaps, the
    application is mainly read intensive.  Since you didn't specify
    if the customer is using SQL*forms or not, I'll try to help in
    both cases.
    
    SQL*forms w/ 250 Users
    ----------------------
    I had talked to Oracle several times the past few years on how to size
    SQL*forms, number of users per VUP.  As you would imagine, the numbers
    are all over the place.  However, two numbers *seemed* to appear more
    than others.  They are 3 and 7.  So, if you use 3 per VUP, you need
    at least a 9000-420 (250 / 3 = 83 vups).  If you use 7 per VUP, you
    need at least a 9000-410 or a 6000-460.  
    
    You must, under all circumstances, make Oracle give this number.  Then
    you can watch Oracle tell the customer that a Sequent S81 will support
    250 users and watch the order slowly fade into the sunset !!  To gain
    additional insight to users/vup, call Mark Silverberg and ask him to
    discuss his experiences with Oracle's SQL*forms performance.
    
    Something Else (ACMS/DECforms/Oracle) w/250 Users
    -------------------------------------------------
    Since this is a small database, you may be able to draw some
    comparisons between our TPCA work.  Now, if you assume that the Oracle
    database produces the same cpu and disk load, AND if you assume the
    use of ACMS/DECforms; you could project a dual host 4000 or a single
    6000-420. 
    
    The VAX 4000 has been clocked at 21.7 tps with 220 terminals being
    threaded through various front-end uVAXes.  If you add another 4000
    to replace the multiple uV3100 used as front-ends, this would tend to
    match.  But, this dual host configuration would put you too close to
    the edge so I would opt for the 6000-420 or the safer bet, the
    6000-430.  
    
    This option would required the use of ACMS/DECforms and, yes, would be
    a cluster.  However, Oracle would only run on the backup 4000 (and
    would only be licensed there too).  If your customer is smart, they'll
    look at the ACMS option carefully since it is obviously a better
    solution for the ultimate end-user AND point rather dramatically to the
    lack of an oltp strategy in Oracle's product line.  Finally, if your
    customer is really smart, they'll realize that Rdb is a much better
    solution for the back-end too !!
    
    I tend to agree with .1, but you probably need to help manage the
    dialogue if you want to preserve the hardware.  
    
    -- gerry