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Conference ulysse::rdb_vms_competition

Title:	DEC Rdb against the World

Moderator:	HERON::GODFRIND

Created:	Fri Jun 12 1987
Last Modified:	Thu Feb 23 1995
Last Successful Update:	Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:	1348
Total number of notes:	5438

674.0. "Rdb 4GL also develop & run PC apps.? PowerHouse??" by TRCA01::BBUTLER (for good luck my black tooth) Wed Jun 20 1990 00:34

     
     This note seeks information about Rdb development tools which are
     also able to develop & run PC applications.  The three parts raise
     some questions about the best 3rd party vendor of Rdb friendly
     development tools. I am looking for some advice on the best tools
     fit for my customers needs.
     
     Part A.
     
     I understand that several 3rd party vendors have development tools 
     for use with Rdb.  For example the list includes:
     
     SmartStar
     Focus
     CA/Cullinet Tools
     GemBase
     CorVision
     IDE
     PowerHouse
     Natural Language
     ...
     
     The customer thinks they require applications to be developed for 
     use on stand-alone PCs.  These same applications must also run on 
     departmental VAX machines.  Some of the VAXen are installed now 
     while some will be installed over the next year or so.  Originally 
     they decided to use Oracle but now have seen how expensive Oracle 
     will be.  They have one application already developed on Oracle on 
     the PC.  Of course the PC platform is really too slow for Oracle so 
     they are considering hardware upgrades to support this single 
     Oracle application.  They haven't yet licensed Oracle for the VAX 
     but that is one option.
     
     Also, one related branch of the customer's organization has 
     committed to Rdb development.
     
     Part B.
     
     Recently we disabused them of the notion that only Oracle could 
     solve their PC requirement/problem.  During a meeting with them, I 
     mentioned SmartStar as a possible alternative.  Later when meeting 
     with Mr. Customer, he was strongly in favour of PowerHouse.
     
     I am concerned that PowerHouse on the PC will not provide them with 
     the development environment they need for deploying database 
     applications simultaneously for the departmental Rdb system and the 
     stand-alone PCs.  I have heard that PowerPlay relies on data from a 
     server and does not really provide application portability from PC 
     to VAX/Rdb.  Is this accurate?
     
     Which 3rd party vendor provides the best application portability 
     to VAX/Rdb and also provides for stand-alone operation on PCs?
     
     
     What is the story behind the news report that DEC bundles SmartStar 
     software with VAX upgrades?  Does SmartStar have a good PC to VAX 
     range of products?
     
     Part C.
     
     The PCs will eventually be networked once full VAX rollout to the 
     field is complete.  I realize that the time frame for full rollout 
     is a factor here.  The customer may find that by the time new 
     applications are ready, the departmental machines are in place and 
     the need to run the applications on stand-alone PCs is no longer 
     there.
     
     The customer have developed ad-hoc database applications in 
     Clipper.  They might like to connect some to these to VAX/Rdb 
     although the requirement here is not clearly defined.  But they do 
     have Clipper programming experience.  We have spoken to them about 
     SQL Services for PCs.  I mentioned that they could continue to use 
     Clipper and make calls to SQL Services via 'C' language modules and 
     access the VAX/Rdb system.  This might be a good way to integrate 
     networked PCs with VAX/Rdb.
     
     Do you have any other comments or recommendations.  They will be 
     appreciated.
     
     Thanks,
     
     Brad Butler
     dtn: 637-3532

T.R	Title	User	Personal Name	Date	Lines
674.1	An Answer	NOVA::BOOTH	What am I?...An Oracle?	`Wed Jun 20 1990 23:07`	12
	Recital might be an answer. It runs on PCs, UNIX, XENIX, AIX, VMS, and ULTRIX. Runs applications from dBase, FoxBASE, and Clipper. It uses Rdb on VMS systems. Contact: Recital Corporation, Inc. 85 Constitution Avenue Danvers, MA 01923 508-750-1066 ---- Michael Booth
674.2	Uniface is another possible choice	IJSAPL::WOODROW	Father of DRS	`Thu Jun 21 1990 09:00`	30
	The following might also be of use. Uniface BV (Netherlands) distributes a product that does run on PCs and interfaces well with Rdb. It is a standard product at my customer, the Dutch railroad, and is being used on several large projects. It has also been known to be able to move customers on VAX/VMS from Oracle to Rdb. The "local" rep for NJ/NY is (the company is Dutch, but with a decided American "flair"): Relational Options, Inc. 14 Main Street, Suite 112 Madison, NJ 07940 Tel: 201-765-9568 FAX: 201-882-8985 Try for Margie Fatchric The "Uniface Sample Client List" shows Sandoz Research Institute in East Hannover, NJ, as a VAX reference. I believe there is also more reference material in some of the conferences (?RALLY Competition). To the best of my knowledge Uniface is part of the RSVP program. Their new Polyserver (hopefully to be replaced in the not-to-distant future by an interface to SQL-services) allows an application on a PC to work with databases on PC and VAX (and probably Ultrix). Peter
674.3	PowerHouse PC plus PowerPlay	TROA01::NAISH	SQL4ME Paul Naish DTN 631-7280	`Sun Jun 24 1990 15:30`	31
	> I am concerned that Powerhouse of the PC will not provide them with > the development environment ... I have heard that PowerPlay relies > on data from the server and does not really provide application > portability from PC to VAX/Rdb. Is this accurate? I think you are getting PowerPlay and PowerHouse PC mixed up. They are two separate products. PowerPlay is a reporting and analysis tool which runs on a PC and is connected to a host in a quasi Client/Server model. PowerHouse PC seems to be a full implementation of the Cognos product on the PC. In the glossy, they even advertise it for use as a Developer's Workstation. It is available for both MS-DOS and OS/2 platforms. According to one Cognos salesrep, they will also have true Client/Server connections for the PowerHouse PC product to the host sometime this year. Cognos also just annouced PowerCase which is an implementation of their PowerDesign Methdology and supports the creation of PowerHouse and DB definitions. Currently only available under DECwindows on a VAXstation but will be available to support their AS400 product later. If you want more info, talk with their Cognos salesrep. Andris also has a Cognos rep he has been dealing with. You can contact him for a number. Paul
674.4	NOMAD for the PC	POBOX::LACEY	ACMS/Rdb, the transaction Autobahn	`Mon Jun 25 1990 21:36`	9
	NOMAD from MUST Software has a PC/NOMAD product in beta-test, I will use Rdb/VMS as a server, as well as running on Rdb on the VAX. I will be able to do distributed heterogeneous joins between PC/NOMAD and Rdb. Try them out. 1-800-411-MUST is the phone. _PAul
674.5	Results were good, update on my 4GL note	TRCA01::BBUTLER	for good luck my black tooth	`Mon Jul 16 1990 20:54`	13
	Thanks to you all for the replies. I have followed up and received information from and Uniface, Recital. Nomad from MUST software has a U.S. only 1-800 number, but I should be able to track them down from advertisements. Powerhouse sounds like a good bet for my customer. Personnally I'm impressed with the description of UNIFACE. Recital seems best if one must migrate dBase applications, but Recital itself does not run on PCs.
674.6	Migration Effort?	TROA02::SPACKMAN		`Thu Aug 16 1990 21:12`	17
	How much work is involved in moving a Powerhouse application, including the data, from a PC platform to a VMS platform where the data will reside in an Rdb database? Do any of the other products mentioned handle this migration effort any better? Keep in mind, this question is specifically referring to an application that is developed & deployed on a DOS PC, which is where the data also resides, and at some future point in time, is migrated onto a VAX & into an Rdb database. I am NOT talking about access to an Rdb database from a PC. -- Janet