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Conference ulysse::rdb_vms_competition

Title:DEC Rdb against the World
Moderator:HERON::GODFRIND
Created:Fri Jun 12 1987
Last Modified:Thu Feb 23 1995
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1348
Total number of notes:5438

649.0. "Any on-line ORACLE perf./appl hints?" by KYOA::SCHULZ (george schulz dtn:323-4074) Wed May 16 1990 18:04

    I believe that ORACLE does provide VAX/VMS system managers with
    a number of performance related suggestions (e.g. Working sets,
    buffers etc.), and perhaps some guidelines in writing applications.
    I myself have never seen this literature. 
    
    I work on the VMS tuning side of things but have often had to deal
    with systems running ORACLE and the usual performance
    related complaints and was wondering if there are any
    performance/application hints on-line anywhere on our network.
    Does anyone have anything I can get?
    
    Thanks,
    
    George
    NYA CDU
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
649.1What "O" versions ?MAIL::DUNCANGOracle... the one-line databaseWed May 16 1990 18:371
    What version of Oracle ?  V5.1.22 is tuned differently than V6.0
649.2I need BOTH 5.1.22 and 6KYOA::SCHULZgeorge schulz dtn:323-4074Thu May 17 1990 16:2213
    Both....As a deliverer of the VPCS tuning services, I run into both
    version 5.1.22 and version 6 ORACLE systems. Although I don't 'tune'
    for ORACLE, it is often the case that there is no underlying VMS
    problem and I would like to be able to check the customers ORACLE
    tuning to perhaps identify the cause(s) of his complaint. These
    complaints are usually of the highly specific type like " it's
    slow around 3:00 pm" or " I have 20 users on a 8550 and the system
    is real sluggish...". You look and see 60% CPU Idle time etc....
    
    
    Thanks,
    
    George
649.3Call Oracle .... it's not your problemMAIL::DUNCANGOracle... the one-line databaseWed May 30 1990 17:4761
Both....As a deliverer of the VPCS tuning services, I run into both version
5.1.22 and version 6 ORACLE systems. 

>> Be aware that Oracle 5.1.22 and Oracle V6 are tuned differently, have
	different syntax for certain SQL statements, and are generally
	two different environments.  

Although I don't 'tune' for ORACLE, it is often the case that there is no
underlying VMS problem and I would like to be able to check the customers
ORACLE tuning to perhaps identify the cause(s) of his complaint. These
complaints are usually of the highly specific type like " it's slow around 3:00
pm" or " I have 20 users on a 8550 and the system is real sluggish...". You
look and see 60% CPU Idle time etc.... 

>> In order for you to attempt to tune for Oracle, you would need to know
	Oracle internals for both Oracle releases, the type of queries the
	application issues to the database, the level of interaction
	(locking) between programs, and the structure of the indexes ....
	just for starters.  With Oracle (as there is with Rdb, Ingres, and
	all the rest), there are numerous opportunities for tuning and
	unfortunately, the majority of them fall far, far outside the 
	VPCS services you deliver.  

>> My good customer who has Oracle purchased VPCS services and our approach
	was to document what was NOT a problem.  We documented that VMS was
	properly configured, SYSGEN parameters were set according to Oracle's
	recommendations, disks were not fragmented, DIO and que lengths to
	the disk farm were within normal operational ranges, etc.  Then we
	said, "... hey, mr customer, the ONLY thing left is YOUR application
	and/or YOUR Oracle database ... and we can't help you with either
	one under the VPCS banner.   What do you want to do ???"  The customer
	paid Oracle big bucks, made some changes to the physical database,
	and, most importantly, rewrote some critical programs.  It is
	important to note that ALL of this wes done under the same i/o
	and VMS configuration.

>> At the risk of sounding like a wiseguy, anyone (Digital mgmt, sales rep,
	or customer) who expects you to tune Oracle database or application
	or even to attempt is very similar to asking you to tune a CICS
	region because 3270 response is slow around 3pm.  You're not trained
	and it's not our direct problem BUT is our indirect problem since we
	want to maintain account control.

>> I would suggest that you encourage the customer to contract with Oracle
	for performance analysis since the application's interaction with
	the Oracle database is most likely the problem once you've done
	your job.  Of course, when you recommend this to the customer, you
	run the risk that Oracle will tell the customer to trash the VAX
	and buy Sequent or some other "box of the day" AND you open up
	the opportunity for Oracle to bad-mouth the VAX.  Believe me, this
	is a serious problem and you're in catch-22, right now !!  You need
	to do the right thing for the customer but need to manage the Oracle
	lip service.  I recommend that you take control of the performance
	issues, attend EVERY meeting between the customer and Oracle, and not
	let anything get out of control.  Make sure the DEC salesman knows the
	critical nature of this and does not take this condition lightly.	

If you have more questions, please send me Email.  Good luck.

-- gerry