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Conference ulysse::rdb_vms_competition

Title:DEC Rdb against the World
Moderator:HERON::GODFRIND
Created:Fri Jun 12 1987
Last Modified:Thu Feb 23 1995
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1348
Total number of notes:5438

598.0. "Relational Database with Free Text Search/Retrieval" by RCOJDS::SHOWALTER (Jay Showalter) Fri Mar 16 1990 16:43

I am currently working with a customer who is looking for a database that 
includes free text search and retrieval capabilities.  The application is to be
used by a customer support organization/engineering/sales.  They will collect
customer, product, and customer call information.

As a pilot, they have been using dBASE on a PC to build a database and enter up 
to some number of keywords for each customer call that they can then perform
queries against.  As one would expect, this is very limited and does not perform
well.

Now, they want to put together a "real" solution based upon their experience as
to the kinds of information that they think they need.  In doing so, they have 
looked at PC solutions, ORACLE, and us.  Based upon their emphasis on being able
to enter text describing the customer call and being able to later retrieve
information using free text search capabilities, we brought in BASIS as the
solution of choice.

At this time, the customer is leaning very heavily towards ORACLE based upon the
new text retieval capabilities that ORACLE has "described".  I say described
because they haven't demonstrated anything yet!  (Sound familiar.)  Anyway, the
customer is believing the potential promise.  What's more, they have botten into
the promise that they can start doing application development using ORACLE on
their existing IBM PC, then port it over to a mini when ready to go into full
production.  Thus, they need not invest into hardware at this time.

Does anyone have any information on what ORACLE really plans on doing/can do in
the area of free text retrieval?  Should I take a look at some other product?

Of course, my salesrep is now wondering why I didn't push Rdb as the solution
instead of BASIS.  But, I'm not aware of any tools that set on top of Rdb and 
give text retrieval capabilities.  If there are some, please let me know.  I 
agree that Rdb would handle the rest of the application needs very well.  That
is, as long as we can show a nice, friendly, easy to use application development
environment!  (Yes, I'm aware of RALLY.)
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598.1PC SolutionsVANISH::BROOMFIELDFri Mar 16 1990 17:5527
    I worked on a similar system in my previous job where documents could be
    keyworded to allow retrieval by a combination of keys.  Initially it
    was implemented using Wordstar and dBASE-III, which gave a fairly
    mediocre response.  After the arrival of Clipper, the first dBASE
    compiler, the system performed a lot better, and when Clipper included
    the ability to search on memo (free format) text fields we could drop
    Wordstar and achieve a fairly healthy performance.
    
    I returned to the old company for a Christmas drink last year and
    caught up with the current state of the system.  It has now been moved
    into another PC package called FOLIO VIEWS.  This is a text retrieval
    database that gives an unbelievable response.  Keywords can be entered
    in the usual text retrieval method (e.g. Find "xxx" and "yyy" in the
    same sentence etc.), and are processed in real-time to give a 1 to 1.5
    second response time on a 7-8Mbyte database (running on a Compaq 386). 
    The company is investigating whether to ditch its IBM mainframe STATUS
    text retrieval system for telex traffic in favour of a micro based
    approach.
    
    Another PC package that comes to mind is LOTUS BLUEFISH (I don't know
    if that's its proper name or code name).  This is a text retrieval
    engine - I've seen it running with all articles/abstracts from the last
    five years computer press stored on an optical disk.  Once again
    response time to a query is very fast (say 5-10 seconds).
             
    P.S. FOLIO VIEWS can handle "containing" wildcards (e.g. FIND "*ONFER*").
    
598.2Recommending BASISplus TIMSWEOPSS::LIMSun Mar 18 1990 22:3626
Hi,

I think there is only one product in the market that will meet your every
requirements for a relational text information management system. It is the 
lastest release of BASIS called BASISplus. It runs well on the VAX/VMS 
platform. We used it extensively here in New Zealand. Some of the features 
of BASISplus are as follow:

- It has a Client-Server Architectrure.
- It supports full distributed network access, including two-phase commit
  protocol and Vax Cluster support.
- It is a full relational database system.
- Very comprehensive security features for database, record and field.
- Extensive Full Text capability
  + Allow you to enter and search free text up to 128 Mbytes.
  + Support Digital CDA, ie you can store and search on DDIF format document.
  + Excellent end-user interfaces.
  + Extensive data validation and referential intergrity check. 
  + Support the sophitiscated Concept Based retrieval technique.
- Good monitoring and tuning capability.

Regards,
Lim

P/S: Please send me mail WEOPSS::Lim should you want any more information 
     regarding BASISplus.
598.3Henco SoftwareUSWAV1::CURTINMon Mar 19 1990 15:175
    There is also a product from Henco (competes with BASIS) called 
    Info - DB+ which runs on VMS.  They are located in Waltham, MA 
    617-890-8670.  It also will meet your needs.
    
    Susan
598.4TEXT and RdbTRCO01::MCMULLENMon Mar 19 1990 17:495
    Do any of the TEXT retrieval products integrate with applications
    that use Rdb? For example has a company like HENCO provided an Rdb/VMS
    interface in addition to their text database interface?
    
    Ken McMullen
598.5BASIS and RdbTRCA01::SANDHUMon Mar 19 1990 18:525
    I believe BASIS *has* an interface to Rdb. Our software unit had
    a presentation from the BASIS and that question was asked. BASIS
    has its own relational database, but will interface to Rdb if Rdb
    exists on the system.
    
598.6BASISplus and Rdb interfaceWEOPSS::LIMMon Mar 19 1990 21:3022
Re: .5

I am the technical support person for BASISplus In New Zealand. As far I know 
I very much doubt that BASISplus has got a Rdb interface. What makes BASISplus
stands out from the other non-longtext DBMS like RDB, Ingres and Oracle etc is 
its relational engine is specially designed to handle very long text and 
proximity searching. Of course I may be wrong on this. The right person to 
verify this would be:

		Doug Martin
		Product/Sales support manager
		Information Dimensions Inc
		655, Metro Place,
		South Dublin, Ohio 4307-1396
		Ph: (614) 761-7426


P/s: Information Dimensions Inc is the developer of BASISplus software. 
     IDI has got CMP agreement with Digital in a lot of countries and DCS
     agreement in some countries too. I do not see BASISplus as a competition
     to Rdb because they are both aiming at different markets.
598.7Excalibur..DPDMAI::DAVISGBEscapee from New Hampshire...Fri Mar 23 1990 18:549
    Call Guy Theriot @AQO
    DTN 554-7244
    
    Ask him about Excalibur software.  Full text scan and retrieval - image
    scanning of documents, etc.  Runs on Oracle and Rdb (shortly).
    
    Guy sits next to me in Albuquerque, and is our contact to Excalibur
    corporation, also here in Albuquerque.  Their demo DAZZLES people!
    
598.8More Info on BASISplus (RE: LARVAE::MCCARTNEY_J)WEOPSS::LIMWed Mar 28 1990 02:2318


Re: LARVAE::MCCARTNEY_J

Hi, 

I have been trying to send you more information regarding BASISplus via 
VAXMail.Unfortunately I always get a non-delivery message from your node.
I suspect that this has something to do with your ALL-IN-1 mail auto-forward
mode wasn't set correctly. Out of desperation I have send the BASISplus info
to your system manager instead( LARVAE::SYSTEM). Please get it from him/her.

Please check your username in auto-forward mode should you want me to send
you any info directly in the future.

Regards,
Lim