Conference ulysse::rdb_vms_competition

>>		Client/Server Architecture - There are 62 sites throughout
>>		the state.  

If on VAX, ACMS/Rdb.  
If from PC, SQL*services/Rdb

>>		Distributed Database - Each site will maintain a local 
>>		database, and will need to update a central database.

Stay tuned for our DECtpII announcement on Feb 27.  Until then and maybe
after, VAX data distributor.

>>		Interfacing with Model 204 on Amdahl - The existing database
>>		resides on an Amdahl.  Using Model 204, the customer has 
>>		developed applications that will need to share data with 
>>		this new implementation.

Numerous task-to-task programming APIs are available.  You'll have to
roll your own since no VIDA for 204 seems to exist.  It's also unlikely that
anyone else has a clean bridge.

>>		PC Connectivity - This customer has over 2000 IBM compatibles
>>		which will be the desktop device for the installed system.  

SQL*services is a good one.  Also, you may want to look at Focus.  Their
FOCnet runs on many platforms.

>>		GUI - The customer requires a Graphical User Interface that
>>		runs on the PC.  They are particularly fond of MS-Windows and
>>		want a 4GL application development environment that produces/
>>		works with MS-Windows or Presentation Manager.		

Focus ??

>>	Until this week, we have been meeting STRONG resistance to Digital 
>>	products.  This customer WANTS our hardware, but believed they 
>>	required 3rd party software.  The evolution of their prototyping has
>>	shown that ORACLE is having difficulty delivering the functionality
>>	they claimed available (what's new!).  

If the want our hardware and if they look close, they'll WANT our databases
too !!  There's an old saying that says "... if ain't braggin' if you can
do it ..." .... clearly Oracle has been braggin' !!

>>	Up until this week, ORACLE
>>	was a VERY stong contender for the database.  

This is surprising since Oracle's database seems to be the weakest of all
their products.  We usually win comparisons but lose on tools.


>>	Now the customer is
>>	interested in other alternatives.  They are asking if Digital has
>>	off-the-shelf tools, or customized solutions that would meet their
>>	needs.  Here's our chance to bet ORACLE in a big way...they've been
>>	working this account for three years!

	Working against Oracle is like a jury trying to decide
    	on a verdict ....... the longer it
	goes, the better our chances are for winning.    

    I do not know if it works with System 204, but try Sterling Software
    the providors of Answer/DB (VAXlink Server).  They claim to be able to
    extract info from most IBM data structures.
    
    Ann Thomas (CREDIT::) is the product manager for VAXlink.
    
    Michael

    If they want a graphical interface to Rdb from the PC try this...
    This demo always blows the customers away !!! (even some DEC people).      
                                                                         
    Install PCSA & DECwindows on the PC. Decwindows and DECdecision
    on any VAX.
    1. Use the PCSA 'USE' command to point at the VMS directory that 
       contains the Rdb database. 
    2. Startup a DECWINDOWS session.
    3. Use DECdecision as a window into Rdb. 
    4. After creating a spreadsheet or table of the necessary information,
       use the DECdecision EXPORT command
       to create a VMS file in LOTUS, ASCII or other PC formats.
    5. Suspend the DECwindows Session returning to MS-DOS.
    6. Startup LOTUS, do a /FileDirectoryM:\ to point to the VMS directory
       that has the Rdb extracts.                                 
    7. DO a /FileRetrieve, pick the spreadsheet of your choice. 
  
    You know have a graphical query tool better than FOCUS, ORACLE...
    into Rdb that interfaces directly with the PC.
    
    Best of all, you can also modify that data in LOTUS, then IMPORT
    it into Rdb.
    
    
    _paul DTN:447-2832    

    To add even more zing...
    
    We've kinda been doing what Paul suggest at the Phila ACT, but we
    usually do it with TEAMDATA, for shop-floor terminal access. If the
    Sterling folk say that Extractor works on the hardware in question, I
    can show you how to get a neat extract of an IMS database as the front
    end to the DECDecision show that Paul described. I would further
    suggest that you do a litle DEC Windows code to do all of those command
    line tasks as icons.

    And to really top it off ... !!!
    
    POint DECdecision to a IBM DB2 database using VIDA for DB2. 
    DECdecision will even prompt you for the IBM security username and
    password and access is instantaneous.
    
    Michael

    Sharon:
    
    While we, as is evident, have most of the technical answers, I would
    highly recommend that you be on-guard to take the sales strategy
    layers upwards. Tell you what I mean: Typically, Oracle's strategy
    follows the layered approach. ie. they will start out with just
    the bells whistles of the database, if the deal is closed here good.
    If not, they will take it up one level to network/portability and
    try to get the customer here. If the customer has still not bought
    on here, they escalate it to application -> Planning -> Startegic
    Partnership. This information is from a former Oracle District Sales
    Manager, Roger Tennuci - Database Specialist in Ottawa.
    
    I put this here because recently I ran into an extremely frustrating,
    and believe me, personally depressing situation. I seemed to be
    doing the right thing. The customer agreed we function better on
    Clusters/SMP etc. and things seemed to be going our way, when all
    of a sudden the issue of available applications on RDB came into
    play. So while I was there explaining away the technology, Oracle
    had jumped up one critical level, and caught me off guard. I was
    having to defend and sell our RSVP program etc.
    
    Roger explained what had happened, and I have managed to re-gain
    a stronghold by talking about SI, AIA, NAS - Strategic Business
    Levels. Now, ORacle is having to respond to things like what will
    happen 5 years from now ie. NAS, etc. 
    
    Moral: Along with our technical strengths do not forget to sell
    our architectures, our strategic directions, and business committment
    with the customer. 
    
    Hope these "non-technical" suggestions help.

    Thank you all for your help.  
    
    .6  
    
    Your input is right on target!  We have spent the last two weeks
    educating this customer on standards, DEC's commitment to standards,
    NAS, etc.  They have come along way in learning about that strange
    company called DIGITAL.
    
    For everyone's information.  The customer is coming to close on their
    prototyping effort, without having found a solution.  Oracle can't
    deliver what they indicated was available (what's new! right?).  The
    other database and 4GL tools the customer is evaluating don't work in
    the Graphical User Interface running on a PC either.  
    
    So today the customer asked us...
    
    Digital, can you provide us SQL WINDOWS (GUPTA's PC based tools) 
    running in a MS-DOW environment on the PC, connected to RDB on the
    VAX?  If you can, you've solved our problem.  Oh, by the way, given
    we can't find the solution in "off the shelf" products, we would 
    accept a custom interface in support of our effort.
    
    Now I'm trying to find out what we can do, have done, are willing to
    do with GUPTA.  Anyone have any experience with this company's 
    products?  
    
    Thanks again for the input.  Please don't stop!
    
    Sharon

    Waydago Sharon!
    
    I am quite certain I saw somewhere that Gupta is an RSVP partner.
    You should call NOVA::KEENAN (Judy Keenan DTN: 264-1452) to verify
    this. She is the RSVP Manager.

    Wish you luck against O.

    Re: .7
    
    Sharon, I just went through the painfull exercise of determining
    which vendors have bought into SQL Services for MS-DOS and found
    out:
    
    	a) There are a pitfull few at present but .. SQL Services are
    	now part of the RSVP program. I understand a mail-out to 6K
    	potential SQL Service participants was just done.
                                                         
    	b) Many PC products provide external DB access which can access
    	SQL Services with a little customization.        
                                                         
    You can investigate a) in NOVA::SQL_SERVICES in note 106. Reply
    106.3 is from Larry Barnes who wrote an EXCEL interface to SQL
    Services.                                            
                                                         
    Point b) requires that your understand PC's, the product to be
    interfaced and SQL Services. Buy in from the vendor is not always
    needed.I hope marketing realizes soon that we (maybe) can gain more
    by providing templates than obtaining vendor buy in. So if GUPTA
    provides a generic external DB interface, consider writing a solution.
                                                                          
   Paul