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Conference ulysse::rdb_vms_competition

Title:DEC Rdb against the World
Moderator:HERON::GODFRIND
Created:Fri Jun 12 1987
Last Modified:Thu Feb 23 1995
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1348
Total number of notes:5438

358.0. "Oracle ON Rdb!" by CHOVAX::RASKIS (SPIs 'R Us) Tue May 23 1989 16:43

Not that I'm trying to beat a dead horse or anything, but I wanted to toss
this out in the conference to re-assure myself that a nasty rumor was not 
true. (BTW, some background - I'm a resident from SWS who has been supporting 
Rdb systems at my customer's site.)

My customer asked me to attend a meeting with him and a sales rep from Oracle.  
We arrived early, along with other of my customer's co-workers, so we started 
discussing why Oracle was coming here and what my customer's goals were.  
Anyway, one of the co-workers (very influential in hardware and software pur-
chases) was told by his Oracle sales rep that Oracle was going to be layered
on top of Rdb (ala Ingres Tools for Rdb).  Well, having scanned this notes 
file for tidbits on Oracle, I gather that this is just the type of thing that
they are capable of saying.  But just to make sure...

Is this for real?

Signed,
Paranoid in New Jersey
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name		DateLines
358.1Oracle NEXT TO Rdb!KYOA::HANSONThe Youngest Curmudgeon!Tue May 23 1989 19:0124
    
    You're right: That's what Oracle is capable of saying, and that's
    what they *do* say (see my base note titled "Tell me it isn't so!")
    
    I believe that not only would this fall into the same complaint_
    category, but it may actually be based upon the same "rumor" or
    simple_fact_taken_too_far.  In other words, Oracle may have signed
    some sort of ISV agreement with Digital which, as we've discussed,
    is not all that significant from our point of view.  But considering
    the "aggressive" marketing that Oracle tends to engage in, they
    take this little blurb and blow it out into "an all-out Oracle
    corporate strategy that just *proves* how closely we work with DEC!"
    
    Also remember that even if they WERE to 'layer' upon Rdb/VMS...
    well, anyone can write the callable interface, but writing DSRI
    is a whole 'nother matter, and I don't think anyone has heard of
    Oracle going with DSRI.  And if the WERE to go DSRI, wouldn't they
    have to rely upon the distributed lock manager for VMS, in whole
    or in part?  Gosh, how could they ever allow themselves to do that?
    
    I have another concern about Oracle that I will post in the next
    base note.  That question is a bit disjointed from this one.
    
    Bob
358.2ORACLE/Rdb?WARRTR::MEAKINSClive MeakinsTue May 23 1989 19:206
>     one of the co-workers (very influential in hardware and software pur-
> chases) was told by his Oracle sales rep that Oracle was going to be layered
> on top of Rdb (ala Ingres Tools for Rdb).
  
    I too have heard this from several ORACLE users - but I still don't
    know whether it's true.
358.3DUD FUDCLYPPR::COUGHLANDBS Product ManagementTue May 23 1989 19:2533
    There are many who will say that great marketing is a function of how
    much FUD you spread.  By that metric, ORACLE is the one of the all-time
    great marketeers.
    
    >>"Oracle was going to be layered on top of Rdb (ala Ingres Tools for
    Rdb)."
    
    FUD, pure and simple.  I have no knowledge of Oracle's internal
    development plans, so I can't say "it will never happen".  I can state
    some facts:
    
    	1) If they do the work, they can sell the result, but Digital won't
    	sell it in any way shape or form, and while I can't personally
    	commit for the 100,000+ independent thinkers (?) in this company, it
    	certainly won't be supported at the corporate level.
    
    	2) They are an "official ISV".  That means we put them on our
    	list of people who write software for VAX systems, and we told them
    	that they are on the list.  That's all it means.  I think the ISV
    	marketing group set up a MicroVAX someplace (NOT ON THE NET) that
    	has some notes files so the ISVs can talk to each other and to the
    	poor slob from ISV marketing whos job it is to read and answer all
    	the notes.  No special privileges, no special deals, no special
    	marketing concessions.  If they were to layer the ORACLE tools on
    	Rdb/VMS, they could make the same ludicrous claims that they make
    	now, but nothing more.
    
    	3) This is a company that is spending thousands of dollars on an ad
    	campaign that says "Even if Rdb is free, you can't afford it." 
    	They're going to have to contort pretty wildly to rationalize their
    	ad headlines with their actions if they did such a thing.  Use it.
    
    Steve
358.4CHOVAX::RASKISSPIs 'R UsTue May 23 1989 22:2415
To all:

Thanks for addressing my concerns.  I wasn't sure whether Digital would let
Oracle develop "tools" that were DSRI compliant...afterall, we put the 'D' in
DSRI!

As a matter of fact, that's the reason my customer asked me to attend this 
meeting.  I've written several applications out here using RCI calls (in other
words, at the DSRI level) and my customer wasn't sure if that had anything to
do with what Oracle was saying.

A side note to .0:

The Oracle sales rep stood us up.  Nothing I like better than billing my 
customer for sitting around for an hour. 8^<
358.5Anyone can use DSRIHGOVC::DEANGELISTie me rickshaw down sportWed May 24 1989 05:2611
>Thanks for addressing my concerns.  I wasn't sure whether Digital would let
>Oracle develop "tools" that were DSRI compliant...afterall, we put the 'D' in
>DSRI!
 
    Well, DSRI is documented to a certain extent in the initial DSRI
    manual. Digital is not preventing people using DSRI, so Oracle can
    use the inteface if they wish. The only problem is that they can
    only use the documented interface which as I understand is a subset
    of the current DSRI.
    
    John.