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Conference ulysse::rdb_vms_competition

Title:DEC Rdb against the World
Moderator:HERON::GODFRIND
Created:Fri Jun 12 1987
Last Modified:Thu Feb 23 1995
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1348
Total number of notes:5438

264.0. "Sybase/Oracle Traps...have you seen 1" by TROA01::COCHRANE () Thu Dec 08 1988 17:59

      		----> Sybase, Oracle  weaknesses  <----
    
    	I am currently competing with these two products and I have
    the advantage of being able to influence the pilot application 
    design. I would like to include things in this design that we can
    do with RDB and Rally that would be difficult or impossible to
    do with either of these two competative products. Does anyone know
    Oracle or Sybase well enough to advise me on some posible traps
    I can set for them? This is an Insurance application for an automated
    quote system for Group Annuities and they will use RDB/Rally and
    the competative product offerings from the other guys/gals.
    
    If they (sysbase/oracle) found themselves in this position
    what could they do to me?
     
     
        
    
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
264.1Here are ThreeBROKE::BOOTHWhat am I?...An Oracle?Fri Dec 09 1988 04:1410
    Try using a MicroVAX for the performance test. There is not enough
    memory available to set up the huge caches that O & S need to enhance
    performance.
    
    Also, a VAXcluster system with database access from more than one
    node will eliminate Sybase and cripple Oracle V6.
    
    Use direct access to RMS files. O & S can't do it.
    
    ---- Michael Booth
264.2design against the global cacheDEBIT::DREYFUSMon Dec 12 1988 21:1719
>    Try using a MicroVAX for the performance test. There is not enough
>    memory available to set up the huge caches that O & S need to enhance
>    performance.
    
If all database users are going after the same data, doing the same thing,
this may not help.  Global caching does work on microVAXes.  However,
what you can do is construct an application design that causes the global
cache to thrash.  While I have not tested this approach, it may work.

If each user goes after a different data set (part of the database), then
the approach that we use allows each user to maintain access to their
own buffer space.  In a shared buffer-space environment using LRU page
management we may find that Oracle and Sybase constantly flush each users
page out of memory just before they need it.

In the worst case, this type of application configuration doesn't give
Oracle or Sybase an edge with their global caches and fast-commit algorithms.

--david
264.3Another thought MDVAX1::DUNCANGGerry Duncan @KCOTue Dec 13 1988 21:1112
    For Oracle V5, have them do a prototype which updates different
    rows in the same table from more than 1 program.  That will put
    O out to lunch.  Then force a cluster, even the "hot" V6/TPS will
    choke.
    
    Re .2 David is correct.  In our recent benchmark, the global caching
    doesn't seem to help our throughput.  We ran almost identical times
    on 8820 and 6240 under V6/TPS using approx. 5mb SGA.  If Oracle
    was right about the 6xxx bus vs 8xxx, I would have expected to see
    the 6240 run slightly ahead of the 8820.
    
    --gerry
264.4>>> Further Infor to .0 and ???? <<<TROA02::WILLMSWed Feb 01 1989 20:0729
    Current Config. is a LAVC consisting of :
    
    	5 Diskless VS2000 with 14M memory each.
    	  ( possibly expanding to 10-15 workstations)
    
    	VAXserver 3400 acts as the BOOT node for the VS and a File server.
    	 (1 TK70 Tape Drive, 3 RF30 Disk Drives)
    
    ? - Customer (and myself included) will be looking for help/info
    on how to monitor performace of both RDB and SYBASE and acheive
    Price Performance info. (Any tricks to be aware of.)
                                  
    Note 1 - Customer is rewritting code from IBM onto the VAX and they
             are new to the VMS enviornment.
    
    Note 2 - I am new to Digital (1 Month) and I am also new to the
    LAVC Environment.  Before coming to DEC I worked in a VAX Cluster
    Environment and have a basic understanding of how things work but not
    in great detail. I have also had some experience with DEC DBMS but
    not RDB.
                                                                    
    Any answers on how to moniter etc.. or where to find it would be
    appreciated.
    
    P.S. I have been reading some of the other NOTES conferences to get
    more infor on RDB/RALLY/SQL etc... and 3rd party DB.
    
    P.S.S. Does anybody know how much disk storage each additional Node
    in the LAVC will take when added.