Conference ulysse::rdb_vms_competition

Speaking as if I was in marketing (which I am) :-) ...


Digital recognizes the importance of integrating desktop devices and VAXes.

To accomplish this integration we are taking a step-by-step approach.

The first step was DECnet-DOS and PCSA which allows PC users to treat
VAX disks as PC hard disks (drive d: is a RA82, for example).  DECnet-DOS
also allows peer-to-peer communication.

Colonial Management, Boston, has worked with us on producing a testimonial
brochure and video on how they use PCs and PCSA to access Rdb on the VAX.

Be aware that DECnet-DOS is in the top 5 of all software products (following
microVMS and VMS).  Many people find DECnet-DOS to be a great integration
answer.

Database Systems has program announced SQL services.  SQL services will
layer upon DECnet-DOS to provide an SQL 'bus' between desktop devices-
PCs, MACs, UNIX workstations, etc.  Using the SQL services API (application
programming interface), users will be able to transparently access Rdb
from any desktop device or from VAX/VMS.  Thus applications can be written
on a PC and moved anywhere (a common claim from RTI and Oracle).

A number of third-party software houses will be using the SQL services API
to write applications that work on PCs and VAXes transparently.

In the future, we will see stronger links between VMS and desktop devices.

Ingres's integration continues to require the use of asynch links between
the PC and the VAX - they don't use DECnet-DOS.

There are other third-party software companies that use DECnet-DOS to
access VAX databases from the PC.

If you can get the customer to buy off on the idea that DECnet-DOS is the
integration strategy (remote disks, remote printers, and other goodies),
then RTI might not be able to compete.

The new Rdb/VMS V3.0 with snapshots and multi-disk capabilities should
be pretty good at supporting a number of PCs without downloading data.

The customer can also use third-party PC products to access Rdb or
to write applications:  PC/Focus, Multiplex, Powerhouse, Today, etc


Hope this helps.

David Dreyfus
dtn 381-2389

    Richard, how is Colonial Management using PCSA to access Rdb/VMS?
    
    How does the API is SQL Services allow an application on a PC
    move to a VAX for example?
    
    Note 175 discussed a few of the PC integration issues.
    
    PC Focus, out of interest, cannot access Rdb/VMS directly.
    
    Do you happen to have a list of 3rd party PC products that do work
    well with Rdb/VMS AND have database functionality on the PC??????
    
    
    John

>   Richard, how is Colonial Management using PCSA to access Rdb/VMS?

First of all,  I am not Richard Dreyfuss (the actor). ;-). Nor am I
related to him.

Colonial uses PCSA in two ways.

	1)  They use VMS disks to provide disk management like drive c:.
	The PCs operate as diskless workstations.  They find that PCs
	setup this way boot much faster than those that have a hard disk.
	In addition, the system manager can monitor when users start or
	stop their PCs.

	2) They use DECnet-DOS peer-to-pear communication so that 
	applications on the PC can talk over DECnet to processes
	on VMS which, in turn, access the database.  This is at least
	my understanding of how they do it.

	I don't know the low level implementation details.  They just
	seem to be real happy with the solutions.  They find application
	development to be a breeze - 3 people support their MIS needs.
	The end-user/stock analysts often write their own applications.
    
>   How does the API is SQL Services allow an application on a PC
>   move to a VAX for example?

	The same API will be implemented across multiple hardware platforms.
	Thus, a user writing an application in a standard language will
	just move the code over and recompile.

	Application portability will be limited by the use of non-standard
	modules.  Developers should probably isolate system dependent 
	code so that equivalent modules could be used on different systems.
    
>   PC Focus, out of interest, cannot access Rdb/VMS directly.
 
	What mechanism is required?
   
>    Do you happen to have a list of 3rd party PC products that do work
>    well with Rdb/VMS AND have database functionality on the PC??????
    
	I don't have a list.  Most of the vendors that work well with
	Rdb probably don't also sell their own PC package.  With the SQL
	services program this will change (but I can't and won't talk about it
	in this notes file).



Cheers,

David Dreyfus

	

    Sorry David, I DO know your name.
    What Info Builders told me, the other day, is that PC Focus will
    access a file created by the VAX VMS version of Focus. So if the
    VAX VMS version of Focus is used to read Rdb/VMS and create a file,
    then PC Focus can read that file. Not at all what I was looking
    for!
    
    John

    INGRES does work with DOS-DECNET, I have seen it, and I believe
    it will not be easy to win. INGRES/PCLINK allows you to form a query
    on a PC, executes it against INGRES data base on VAX, extract
    results back to the PC, and load it into local INGRES/PC database.
    This is all done using existing tools, without any programming.
  

>    INGRES does work with DOS-DECNET, I have seen it, and I believe

Is this a production version or beta version?  According to my sources
at RTI, they don't have a DECnet-DOS version.


>    it will not be easy to win. INGRES/PCLINK allows you to form a query
>    on a PC, executes it against INGRES data base on VAX, extract
>    results back to the PC, and load it into local INGRES/PC database.
>    This is all done using existing tools, without any programming.
  
INGRES/PClink is a version of Network Innovation's (now part of Apple)
Multiplex.  This product can also be used to extract data in the
same way from Rdb/VMS.  The data can then be placed into your
favorite PC storage medium (1-2-3, etc).

But, you are correct.  The integration across hardware platforms is
more seamless than an Rdb based solution.

--david

    Sorry david, It was  beta version, and I have seen it about 4 months ago.
    I believe it will go to production soon.

                           -< re: Notes .5,.6,.7 >-
    
    Has the Ingres/PClink product become available for customers to
    purchase? Does it take full advantage of the DECNET-DOS capabilities,
    i.e. will it support communication via a Digital SNA Gateway to
    an IBM MVS/XA environment? specifically to an IDMS/R DBMS?

    				         Thanks,
    		                            Dan