Conference ulysse::rdb_vms_competition

145.0. "Ingres user assoc trip report" by DEBIT::DREYFUS () Wed Jun 08 1988 02:03

Enclosed are my notes from the Ingres User Association meeting
of 4/88.  They are in outline form, with form feeds separating
each one.

-- David
   5/23/88


The topics covered are:

    keynote address 	    - industry comments
    state of the company    -   status
    marketing messages      -   messages, slogans, positioning
    performance             -   performance improvements, silver bullet
    new products            -   new products and areas of development
    user presentations	    -   one interesting presentations
    technical information   -   how they do what they do
    knock-offs		    -   complaints and product holes
    sequent information     -   parallel processing unix box




 A. Industry comments - keynote - publisher Software Magazine
    1. The keynote address was based upon surveys
       a) The results are biased by who responded.
       b) Probably also biased by who reads the magazine
    2. In looking at purchase plans
       a) .5 million per site on mainframes
       b) .166 million for midrange
       c) .140 million for PC
    3. Purchase plans on mainframes
       a) databases
          1) ibm
          2) adr
       b) 4GL
          1) info builders
          2) ibm
          3) adr
    4. Purchase plans on midrange
       a) spreadsheets
          1) 20/20 by access technology
       b) project management
          1) dec
          2) ibm
       c) DBMS
          1) undecided
          2) Oracle
          3) IBM
          4) DEC
    5. Big growth in PC connectivity predicted
    6. CASE mentioned as a big area of interest
    7. LAN
       a) Novell
       b) undecided
       c) ibm
       d) 3 com
       e) apple
    8. standard application backlog shown in months
       a) mainframe - 17 mo
       b) midrange - 10 mo
       c) PC  - 6 mo
       d) Solved by
          1) productivity tools
          2) canned packages
          3) analysts
          4) contractors
          5) more PCs
    9. Growth in sectors
       a) manufacturing 27%
       b) government 19%
       c) financial services 18%
   10. Growth by application area
       a) CASE
       b) Decision support
       c) 4GL
       d) project management
   11. On the database market
       a) 50% of survey had daily multi-environment transactions
       b) 67% of mainframe customers have a DBMS
          1) IBM has 44% of the market
          2) DB2 has 28%
          3) Oracle has 5%
       c) DB2 promotion scheme
          1) 80% of DB2 customers never evaluated another product
          2) 70% of those who evaluated multiple products chose DB2
          3) DB2 replaced 20% of the DBMS market
          4) 33% of respondents said DB2 will replace something
             a> 60% IMS
             b> 15% cullinet
             c> 3% Oracle
       d) VAX market
          1) 66% have no DBMS
          2) of the remaining market
             a> 28% to Oracle
             b> 28% to RTI
             c> 19% to DEC
       e) reasons to purchase a DBMS
          1) data integrity
          2) support
          3) query languages
          4) design aids
          5) TPS
          6) 4GLs
          7) report writers
   12. SAA is seen as the VAX Killer
       a) too little, too late
       b) IBM weak in the midrange
   13. OS-2 challenged by DOS and UNIX (Sun, etc)
   14. Sees a trend to downsizing computer applications
       a) Running them on smaller machines
       b) many people just discovering VAXes
   15. OS-2 will be a dual standard with MS-DOS for 5 years
       a) people questioning pace of technology
       b) More functionality moving into the layered products
   16. UNIX
       a) 14% of commercial users on UNIX
       b) Government has blessed UNIX
          1) They also blessed COBOL
       c) UNIX will become accepted commercially
   17. MAP-TOP
       a) Users want it now
       b) DEC will be dragged into it, just like in UNIX
   18. OS-2EE
       a) doesn't like bundling of DBMS
       b) Anti-trust concerns with DBMS and communications in the OS

 B. On the state of the company
    1. A star wars theme
    2. RDBMS to dominate DBMS market as it grows into OLTP
    3. 1987 calendar year
       a) $64 million in revenue
       b) 10,000 total licenses
    4. The new challenge is to reach the economic buying unit

 C. Marketing messages
    1. Portable Relational Database Performance Leader
    2. Performance
    3. Coexistence
       a) The gateway products provide cooperative processing
          1) INGRES not to compete directly on IBM
          2) Offer gateway products only
             a> for relational access
             b> for heterogeneous distributed support
             c> for tools that layer on them
    4. Tools for the workstation
    5. Architecture for the future
    6. Enterprise wide integration
       a) The premier supplier of world-wide enterprise integration
       b) productivity and database tools to connect multi-hardware
          environments
       c) Gateways provide SAA, TODAY.
       d) Global access to data
    7. TPA
       a) total performance architecture
       b) tools
          1) integrated
          2) portable
       c) power
          1) TPS
          2) distributed capabilities
       d) access
          1) gateways
          2) OS independence
          3) hardware independence
          4) database independence
          5) file manager independence
       e) Performance is required over the product lifecycle
          1) on-line DBA tools
          2) TPS
    8. According to Gartner Securities, "they skipped a generation"
       with the multi-server architecture

 D. Performance
    1. Big push on multi-server architecture
       a) multiple servers on the same machine
       b) adjust numbers as required
       c) support for SMP and clusters
    2. Performance improvements from
       a) Stored procedures
          1) whole transactions stored in the DBMS
          2) save communication costs between client and server
       b) Group Commit
          1) One log write commits multiple transactions
       c) Fast Commit
          1) Only write log on commit
          2) Dirty data pages stay in buffer
             a> written when needed by another server
       d) Multi-file tables
          1) File striping
          2) user specifies locations for disk
          3) DBMS allocates groups of pages in strips through the locations
    3. Performance has doubled on same size CPU
       a) due to more disks? don't know
       b) quoted 30 TPS on a 5 mip machine (8700??)
    4. SUN 4 tests
       a) 17 TPS with 5.0
       b) 30 TPS with Silver Bullet changes
    5. Silver Bullet
       a) 104 90% 2 sec Debit/Credit TPS
          1) style 3
       b) 91 90% 1 sec
       c) 88 97% 1 sec with 12 processors, 80 mb memory
       d) 36.8 99% < 1 sec with 4 processors, 40 mb mem
       e) Sequent Symmetry
          1) used for 104 TPS number
          2) the configuration
             a> 2 disk channels
             b> 2 controllers
             c> 16 spindles
                1> 4 log disks
                2> 12 data disks
             d> 80 mb memory
             e> 16 CPUs
       f) 48 DBMS engines
       g) $18,000 per TPS 5 yr COO
       h) used 20% fill factor to avoid lock contention
       i) locking not a bottleneck

 E. New Products
    1. 6.0 version of INGRES
       a) unique secondary index
       b) null value support
       c) full SQL
    2. Product Rollout
       a) 6.0 available for non-production uses
       b) Full 6.0 release by end of year
       c) doing a slow rollout
       d) A special support staff exists to help those going into production
    3. Product development areas
       a) Interfaces to other systems
          1) 20/20
          2) SAS
          3) Focus
       b) Access existing data in other systems
          1) gateways
             a> In field test
                1> Rdb
                2> IMS
                3> DB2
                4> SQL/DS
       c) CASE integration
          1) working with CASE vendors for
             a> life cycle capability
             b> design
             c> tool integration
       d) Value added reseller
          1) over 100 VARS
       e) Rapid application development tools
          1) support MAC, SUN workstation users
          2) Point and shoot interfaces
          3) graphic query designers
          4) report writers
          5) RTI recognizes need for more strength in End-User tools
             a> OPEN-LOOK standard for windows
    4. Simplify
       a) Joint project with SUN
       b) Bit Map interface
       c) supports the decision support market
          1) end user tool
          2) not for programmers
       d) Provides
          1) Schema design tool
             a> entity - relationship paradigm
             b> read-write the design
             c> available by end of year
          2) Data browsing tool
             a> look at tables and relations between them
             b> uses relationships in schema design to navigate
             c> available by end of year
          3) Query design tool
             a> visual query writing
          4) output of query design tool good for
             a> report writer
             b> spreadsheets
                1> are not currently available
             c> graphics
                1> are not currently available
       e) A new generation for QBF and RBF
       f) standard environment for applications
          1) unix based
          2) VMS version is uncertain
       g) simplify presentation
          1) 50% of audience used workstations
          2) year of the workstation
       h) restrictions
          1) not for character cell terminals
          2) no font control in the report writer, no postscript
          3) no plan to mix 240, window based applications for
             deployment.
             a> can develop applications on workstations for char cell
                terminals.
       i) will support multiple databases
    5. PC market
       a) ms-dos version
          1) strategic for INGRES
          2) doubling development staff
          3) support for extended memory
          4) today
             a> DECnet-DOS support
                1> mini-computer as a server
                2> sounds like SQL Server
             b> Async support
          5) tomorrow
             a> 386 Server - Novell network with TCP/IP
                1> Novell to speak TCP/IP to INGRES Server
             b> OS-2 networks
       b) LAN version
       c) OS-2 version
       d) These are personal workstations
          1) good for application development and deployment
       e) INGRES release 6.0 on OS-2 by 1989
       f) DBASE gateway
          1) SQL, OSL (4gl language) on dbase
          2) its a migration or bridge technology for dBASE users
    6. Gateways
       a) MVS/XA
          1) DB2
          2) IMS/DB
          3) IDMS
          4) VSAM
          5) INGRES 6.0 will be available only for VARs
       b) VM/CMS
          1) SQL/DS
       c) products developed to:
          1) solve problem of incompatible access mechanisms between
             different database products
             a> different hardware
             b> different development environments
             c> different programming skills
          2) gateways give ingres development environment to all
             databases, hardware, operating systems
          3) conversions and migrating between DBMSs
          4) new development and coexistance
          5) prototyping
          6) '1 of' reports and programs
          7) repair of 'bad data'
    7. Performance Monitoring Tool - like RMU
       a) currently in advanced development
       b) very well attended presentation
          1) much enthusiasm for product
       c) end-of-summer/fall release
       d) monitors
          1) which DBs in use
          2) which users in a database
          3) disks in use
          4) table usage
          5) disk utilization
          6) bottlenecks in the system
          7) commits per second
          8) io per disk/table
          9) lock request rates
         10) query by type count
         11) overflow pages being added
         12) deadlock information
       e) the monitor looks like a gateway
          1) users can customize their own monitor interface
    8. futures
       a) rules in the database
       b) triggers
       c) monitors
       d) dba tools
       e) abstract data types
       f) referential integrity

 F. User Presentations
    1. Data clustering
       a) take advantage of INGRES storing data in primary key order
       b) use more than logical key in the primary index
       c) add columns to primary index to group records accessed
          as a group.

 G. Technical Information
    1. Gateways
       a) Note that there are two types of gateways
          1) type 2 - non-relational
             a> available late 1988
             b> rms
             c> ims
             d> vsam
             e> idms
          2) type 3 - relational
             a> db2
             b> sql/ds
             c> dg/sql - currently running
       b) type 2
          1) uses SQL
          2) runs under INGRES
          3) file structure of non-ingres database is treated as
             another access method.
             a> The ingres access methods architecture splits into
                logical and physical layers
             b> gateway replaces physical layer
                1> 15 different routines
                2> handle DB keys, searching, pattern matching
          4) two new commands
             a> import table
             b> import index
             c> commands add appropriate data into INGRES system
                catalogs.
          5) can handle multiple record types in one file
          6) hierarchical records mapped as follows
             a> each of root, parent, child has its parent's key
                prepended to its own key in the catalog definition.
                1> k - key
                2> f - field
                3> r - root
                4> p - parent
                5> c - child
                6> definitions in catalog look like
                   a: root(kr,fr)
                   b: parent(kr,kp,fp)
                   c: child(kr,kp,kc,fc)
             b> each segment type is a table in the catalogs
             c> a child has all the keys of its parent
             d> all the INGRES advantages employed
                1> uses read ahead
                2> uses optimizedb
                3> special join processing (in gateway)
                4> data type conversion to INGRES types
       c) type 3
          1) uses a common SQL
             a> a subset common to all vendors
          2) uses an RDA equivalent product to connect
             a> INGRES applications to gateway
          3) Backend of RDA talks to gateway product that
             a> converts SQL text to format required by host RDBMS
          4) uses dynamic SQL
          5) data in host RDBMS visible through a set of standard
             catalogs (views)
          6) can support non-transparent special commands too
             a> this makes it non-portable for the user
    2. Performance improvements from
       a) Stored procedures
          1) whole transactions stored in the DBMS
          2) save communication costs between client and server
       b) Group Commit
          1) One log write commits multiple transactions
       c) Fast Commit
          1) Only write log on commit
          2) Dirty data pages stay in buffer
             a> written when needed by another server
       d) Multi-file tables
          1) File striping
          2) user specifies locations for disk
          3) DBMS allocates groups of pages in strips through the locations
    3. locking
       a) They only use the distributed lock manager when needed
          1) don't know how they figure out 'when needed' is
       b) estimate 16 locks per Debit/Credit x-act

 H. Knock-offs
    1. RMS gateway
       a) ingres backend also required
       b) ingres/star required
    2. Rdb gateway
       a) ingres backend also required
       b) ingres/star required
       c) no quad or segmented string support
    3. large database support
       a) modifying large tables
          1) requires 3x disk space of table
          2) needed to reduce overflow pages
          3) needed to reclaim disk space
          4) deletes indexes after modification
       b) running into physical space limitations
       c) backup ability
          1) especially on UNIX
          2) they want on-line but it isn't coming
          3) they want partial backup capability
             a> subset of the database
             b> per table basis
       d) Audit DB is slow and they need to lock the DB to use it
    4. need a way to patch the DB if it gets corrupt due to
       a) disk faults
       b) system faults
    5. maintaining permits for many users is a big problem
       a) permits on a per user/per table basis

 I. Sequent Information
    1. 3 trends
       a) increasing uniprocessor performance is increasingly difficult
       b) faster microprocessors
       c) multi and parallel processing
    2. the symmetry
       a) runs UNIX
       b) 2-30 80386 CPUs
          1) 4 mips each
       c) 8-120 mips
       d) 16-1024 users
       e) up to 240 mb of memory (but this reduces number of processors)
          1) 20 slots in the box for memory and CPUs
       f) 89-900 thousand dollars
    3. Market orientation
       a) "The practical parallel system"
       b) very good system scalability
          1) bigger range of CPUs than DEC
          2) upgrade only $28,000 (8 mip upgrade)
          3) positioned against CLUSTER
             a> cluster is chassis level growth
                1> add a box
                2> take lots of time
                3> high cost
          4) 35% less cost of ownership
          5) 100,000 hours MTBF
       c) full support for RDBMS
       d) multi-CPU to increase concurrency
       e) less context switching
       f) RDBMS support for parallel system
          1) multi-cpu sorting, searching, joins, etc
       g) can use TCP/IP to connect to the DECnet world.